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Cown
Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.02 10:45:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Cown on 02/01/2008 10:57:41 Hello CCP,
As a pleased user of EVE Online i'm stunned to see how well the new Heavy Interdictors can tank. I don't know if this was intended by CCP? Otherwise i think these are broken and needs to get nerfed whenever possible. It cant be right, that an Interdictor, can tank any Battleship, Command ship, Marauder, Balck Ops, Heavy Assault Cruiser and Carrier. This is based on pure damage and not ECM etc. In some extreme cases, the Interdictor will be able to tank up to 3 battleships simultanious (depending on their setups of course). I'm asking you, CCP, can this be right or do i need to stfu?
Here are some screens: Screen 1 1447 dps tank.
Cheaper setup: Screen 2 1178 dps tank.
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.02 10:52:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Waxau on 02/01/2008 10:54:40 Yes that is right, however:
Firstly, you're working with lv 5 skills. Thats a dead give away of your numbers being faulty. Whilst some CAN get there skills that high, only those truly commited do.
Secondly - Those images need ot be put into link format.
Thirdly - The idea of a dictor is to tank for its bubble to survive. However, one pilgrim (as i found out) renders the Hictor useless, as its bubble dies. So yes - Theyre meant to have extreme tanks, but their actual use be rendered null very easily.
Whilst i would agree with you that they seem strong...their role is perfectly suited atm. Strong tank, weak dps, and easily countered role bonus (the bubble). Plus, notice how in none of your setups, you have a WDFG. That is the whole purpose of a hictor. Without a WDFG, its pointless. I mean...228 dps isnt useful. Most you can do is kill frigates and the odd cruiser. And a 200 mil isk ship, with a tank that can survive multiple bs, is a bit overkill for frigates/cruisers etc.
Having said that, i fly them - So im sure im biased.
<EDIT> Also just saw you using faction hardeners on the first setup. I would say you just ignore that. Any ship can be made to look overpowered with a full faction/pimped setup. To find a pilot willing to fly a hictor, worth that much - Either isk seller, drunk, or simply has too much isk (We're often primaried).
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Tasha Voronina
Caldari Caldari Navy Reserve Force
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Posted - 2008.01.02 10:53:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tasha Voronina on 02/01/2008 10:54:48 edit: argh, beaten
two major flaws there: remove the screenshots, link them instead (forum rules)
other than that, the setups provided are relying on the Nos to permarun which just won't happen because most ships outputting heavy DPS will be below your capacitor level. Another problem with the Nos is that it's fairly short-ranged and you have no means to get into range (i.e. no AB or MWD).
Actually, have to correct myself. There's one other flaw: what use does a heavy interdictor without any sort of warp-scrambling have? Anything one engages in that will just warp off. --- Sig will be updated shortly |
Gladiator Jonny
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2008.01.02 10:53:00 -
[4]
Not linking your pics is gonna get you nerfed. you havent fitted the scrambler.
Its a semi-unrealistic fit. a totally useless fit
i dont see the point?
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Riho
Northen Breeze
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Posted - 2008.01.02 10:54:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Riho on 02/01/2008 11:00:05 most hictors are ok.. just the broadsword and onyx are insane whit passive tanks
i can fly braodsword and phobos on this char (on test atleast :P) and the amarr one on my alt.
i wouldnt fit the broadsword like that... because pure tank is only needed when going against a mom/carrier really.. other times its quite useless (oh and use the high slot scrambler thingy instead of nos :) )
EDIT:
allso hictors have the DPS of a wet paper bag (well wekaer than theyr t1 counter parts). + those fits are completly useless for the role that ship is intended ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online.
dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue |
Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.02 10:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Riho most hictors are ok.. just the broadsword and onyx are insane whit passive tanks
i can fly braodsword and phobos on this char (on test atleast :P) and the amarr one on my alt.
i wouldnt fit the broadsword like that... because pure tank is only needed when going against a mom/carrier really.. other times its quite useless (oh and use the high slot scrambler thingy instead of nos :) )
tbh, all dictors are fine. All have balanced dps, and where the broadsword and onyx lack, the devoter and phobos excel - That being speed. With our passive tanks, well - I dont fit an mwd. Gal and Amarr can afford to cos of their tank slots. But sadly, i cant come up with any other excuse than that...no longer can use the 'but my mids are taken up my tackling!' :P
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Semkhet
KR0M The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.01.02 10:59:00 -
[7]
Proposal for 2008: EFT-Lvl5 warriors should automatically become KOS for all major alliances...
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Gladiator Jonny
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Semkhet Proposal for 2008: EFT-Lvl5 warriors should automatically become KOS for all major alliances...
I would love that so many targets.
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Cown
Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gladiator Jonny Not linking your pics is gonna get you nerfed. you havent fitted the scrambler.
Its a semi-unrealistic fit. a totally useless fit
i dont see the point?
Even with the scram on, the tank is insane. If you compare the setup vs the Amarr and Gallente Interdictors, the Caldari and Minmatar are way overpowered.
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Riho
Northen Breeze
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Riho most hictors are ok.. just the broadsword and onyx are insane whit passive tanks
i can fly braodsword and phobos on this char (on test atleast :P) and the amarr one on my alt.
i wouldnt fit the broadsword like that... because pure tank is only needed when going against a mom/carrier really.. other times its quite useless (oh and use the high slot scrambler thingy instead of nos :) )
tbh, all dictors are fine. All have balanced dps, and where the broadsword and onyx lack, the devoter and phobos excel - That being speed. With our passive tanks, well - I dont fit an mwd. Gal and Amarr can afford to cos of their tank slots. But sadly, i cant come up with any other excuse than that...no longer can use the 'but my mids are taken up my tackling!' :P
aye.. the gallente one can fit quite ok tank whit ions/neutrons but still a t1 thorax will out dps it :P
if you use mwd on them.. they can be quite fast.... usefull when u need to chase someone :P ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online.
dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue |
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Niffetin
Gallente CONsordium Infinate
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:03:00 -
[11]
Boost Gallente Hictors!! My Phobos only tanks 600 DPS with one repper
WTS: Armageddon / Void L / Mobile Large Warp Disruptor |
Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cown
Originally by: Gladiator Jonny Not linking your pics is gonna get you nerfed. you havent fitted the scrambler.
Its a semi-unrealistic fit. a totally useless fit
i dont see the point?
Even with the scram on, the tank is insane. If you compare the setup vs the Amarr and Gallente Interdictors, the Caldari and Minmatar are way overpowered.
Nope - If you take a look at the setup, its cap is only stable by 4 cap per second more. Without the nos, it wont be sustainable, and thats not even using the WDFG. As such, its not a practical setup. And yes, onyx and broadsword do have better tanks, but with mwd's fitted, our tank is just as good as the phobos and devoter (obviously stats arent the same, but in general combat, theyre just as effective).
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Riho
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Riho most hictors are ok.. just the broadsword and onyx are insane whit passive tanks
i can fly braodsword and phobos on this char (on test atleast :P) and the amarr one on my alt.
i wouldnt fit the broadsword like that... because pure tank is only needed when going against a mom/carrier really.. other times its quite useless (oh and use the high slot scrambler thingy instead of nos :) )
tbh, all dictors are fine. All have balanced dps, and where the broadsword and onyx lack, the devoter and phobos excel - That being speed. With our passive tanks, well - I dont fit an mwd. Gal and Amarr can afford to cos of their tank slots. But sadly, i cant come up with any other excuse than that...no longer can use the 'but my mids are taken up my tackling!' :P
aye.. the gallente one can fit quite ok tank whit ions/neutrons but still a t1 thorax will out dps it :P
if you use mwd on them.. they can be quite fast.... usefull when u need to chase someone :P
Regarding the dps - All hictors are outdamaged by their t1 counterparts. I believe the only difference is the Broadsword, and thats with maxed skills, and only by 20 dps. So dps really isnt an issue. Tis all about tank.
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Niffetin Boost Gallente Hictors!! My Phobos only tanks 600 DPS with one repper
Then use two :P
Use the mids for cap rechargers and mwd. Should give you enough cap to tank just as much as an onyx/broadsword, and still have cap to mwd.
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Gladiator Jonny
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Cown
Originally by: Gladiator Jonny Not linking your pics is gonna get you nerfed. you havent fitted the scrambler.
Its a semi-unrealistic fit. a totally useless fit
i dont see the point?
Even with the scram on, the tank is insane. If you compare the setup vs the Amarr and Gallente Interdictors, the Caldari and Minmatar are way overpowered.
Nope - If you take a look at the setup, its cap is only stable by 4 cap per second more. Without the nos, it wont be sustainable, and thats not even using the WDFG. As such, its not a practical setup. And yes, onyx and broadsword do have better tanks, but with mwd's fitted, our tank is just as good as the phobos and devoter (obviously stats arent the same, but in general combat, theyre just as effective).
With the scram on, (using basically the same setup as you) its unstable within 2 mins when using a focused point.
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:16:00 -
[16]
Yup - Which tbh, with this arguement, im very much so against agreeing they need a nerf. However, im sure this wont be the last discussion
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:25:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 02/01/2008 11:25:48 Edited by: Gamesguy on 02/01/2008 11:25:25
Originally by: Cown
Originally by: Gladiator Jonny Not linking your pics is gonna get you nerfed. you havent fitted the scrambler.
Its a semi-unrealistic fit. a totally useless fit
i dont see the point?
Even with the scram on, the tank is insane. If you compare the setup vs the Amarr and Gallente Interdictors, the Caldari and Minmatar are way overpowered.
Actually thats not true, they're quite different.
Amarr and gallente ones can fit a mwd without sacrificing tank. Yes the broadsword and onyx tank more dps, but they have less effective hp.
If you use the heavy dictor for its true role of tackling super capitals, you will be neuted and you will NOT fit any sort of a rep on the armor tanked dictors. The shield tanking ones start to look really bad since they need to give up tank to fit a propulsion mod, and then give up more tank to fit a cap booster so they can run the focused scram.
With a pure plate/resist setup, the devoter is by far the best, realistically you will not be tackling a supercap alone, but rather only tackle long enough(perhaps even fit a cyno yourself) to cyno in caps to support you. Once friendly carriers come in they can bump/neut the supercap and repair you(you will lose the point for a split second, but its no big deal if your carriers neut the target below 71%).
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Waxau Edited by: Waxau on 02/01/2008 10:54:40 Yes that is right, however:
Firstly, you're working with lv 5 skills. Thats a dead give away of your numbers being faulty. Whilst some CAN get there skills that high, only those truly commited do.
Secondly - Those images need ot be put into link format.
Thirdly - The idea of a dictor is to tank for its bubble to survive. However, one pilgrim (as i found out) renders the Hictor useless, as its bubble dies. So yes - Theyre meant to have extreme tanks, but their actual use be rendered null very easily.
Whilst i would agree with you that they seem strong...their role is perfectly suited atm. Strong tank, weak dps, and easily countered role bonus (the bubble). Plus, notice how in none of your setups, you have a WDFG. That is the whole purpose of a hictor. Without a WDFG, its pointless. I mean...228 dps isnt useful. Most you can do is kill frigates and the odd cruiser. And a 200 mil isk ship, with a tank that can survive multiple bs, is a bit overkill for frigates/cruisers etc.
Having said that, i fly them - So im sure im biased.
<EDIT> Also just saw you using faction hardeners on the first setup. I would say you just ignore that. Any ship can be made to look overpowered with a full faction/pimped setup. To find a pilot willing to fly a hictor, worth that much - Either isk seller, drunk, or simply has too much isk Wink (We're often primaried).
Euhm yeah, I mean training shield operation (rank1) and shield management (rank3) to level5 is like, euhm, impossible! And the shield compensation skills are generally level4 anyways for shield tankers flying tech2 ships.
But yeah getting neuted means you're useless.
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Ogdru Jahad
Amarr Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cown Edited by: Cown on 02/01/2008 10:57:41 Hello CCP,
As a pleased user of EVE Online i'm stunned to see how well the new Heavy Interdictors can tank. I don't know if this was intended by CCP? Otherwise i think these are broken and needs to get nerfed whenever possible. It cant be right, that an Interdictor, can tank any Battleship, Command ship, Marauder, Balck Ops, Heavy Assault Cruiser and Carrier. This is based on pure damage and not ECM etc. In some extreme cases, the Interdictor will be able to tank up to 3 battleships simultanious (depending on their setups of course). I'm asking you, CCP, can this be right or do i need to stfu?
Here are some screens: Screen 1 1447 dps tank.
Cheaper setup: Screen 2 1178 dps tank.
come back to the forums when your the original chr owner, and know more about the game than someone who was given the chr. -
At last the Gallente can finally lay claim to saying... "my DICtor" is bigger than yours.
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cown Edited by: Cown on 02/01/2008 10:57:41 Hello CCP,
As a pleased user of EVE Online i'm stunned to see how well the new Heavy Interdictors can tank. I don't know if this was intended by CCP? Otherwise i think these are broken and needs to get nerfed whenever possible. It cant be right, that an Interdictor, can tank any Battleship, Command ship, Marauder, Balck Ops, Heavy Assault Cruiser and Carrier. This is based on pure damage and not ECM etc. In some extreme cases, the Interdictor will be able to tank up to 3 battleships simultanious (depending on their setups of course). I'm asking you, CCP, can this be right or do i need to stfu?
Here are some screens: Screen 1 1447 dps tank.
Cheaper setup: Screen 2 1178 dps tank.
"all skills lvl5" = no-no no usage of mwd in a ship that will NEED that mwd = no-no no usage of the WDFG in a ship that has as much dps as their drone-less T1 variants = no-no
setups are not realistic and divert from the role of the ship wich is to be a mobile capital tackler/bubble.
fit with your skills and accordingly to the ship's role and come back.
also faction fits on these ships is asking to be blown'd up, wich, with only the ship's base speed and no speed mod, and pathetic dps can be acheived by a sizeable gang if they land 4-5 webs on you. ---
planetary interaction idea! |
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arbalesttom
Caldari Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cown
Originally by: Gladiator Jonny Not linking your pics is gonna get you nerfed. you havent fitted the scrambler.
Its a semi-unrealistic fit. a totally useless fit
i dont see the point?
Even with the scram on, the tank is insane. If you compare the setup vs the Amarr and Gallente Interdictors, the Caldari and Minmatar are way overpowered.
'Caldari' and 'overpowered' in one post, i lolled Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR! |
Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.02 11:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shevar
Originally by: Waxau Edited by: Waxau on 02/01/2008 10:54:40 Yes that is right, however:
Firstly, you're working with lv 5 skills. Thats a dead give away of your numbers being faulty. Whilst some CAN get there skills that high, only those truly commited do.
Secondly - Those images need ot be put into link format.
Thirdly - The idea of a dictor is to tank for its bubble to survive. However, one pilgrim (as i found out) renders the Hictor useless, as its bubble dies. So yes - Theyre meant to have extreme tanks, but their actual use be rendered null very easily.
Whilst i would agree with you that they seem strong...their role is perfectly suited atm. Strong tank, weak dps, and easily countered role bonus (the bubble). Plus, notice how in none of your setups, you have a WDFG. That is the whole purpose of a hictor. Without a WDFG, its pointless. I mean...228 dps isnt useful. Most you can do is kill frigates and the odd cruiser. And a 200 mil isk ship, with a tank that can survive multiple bs, is a bit overkill for frigates/cruisers etc.
Having said that, i fly them - So im sure im biased.
<EDIT> Also just saw you using faction hardeners on the first setup. I would say you just ignore that. Any ship can be made to look overpowered with a full faction/pimped setup. To find a pilot willing to fly a hictor, worth that much - Either isk seller, drunk, or simply has too much isk Wink (We're often primaried).
Euhm yeah, I mean training shield operation (rank1) and shield management (rank3) to level5 is like, euhm, impossible! And the shield compensation skills are generally level4 anyways for shield tankers flying tech2 ships.
But yeah getting neuted means you're useless.
If you noted, i didnt say it was impossible. However those only truly commited to shield tanking will train them to those extremes. Unless he/she is an old fogie :P
I for example, do have them to those levels. But many dont.
Plus ontop of that, i was more so referring to general skills, such as cap skills, and so on.
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Pac SubCom
A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.01.02 12:23:00 -
[23]
Lvl 5 EFT skills is Rank (1) + (3) in this setup. --------------- ∞ TQFE
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.02 12:27:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Pac SubCom Lvl 5 EFT skills is Rank (1) + (3) in this setup.
For Autocannon Spec lv 5? Really? Amazing...
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Pac SubCom
A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.01.02 12:29:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Pac SubCom on 02/01/2008 12:29:03
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Pac SubCom Lvl 5 EFT skills is Rank (1) + (3) in this setup.
For Autocannon Spec lv 5? Really? Amazing...
Man you're cheap. --------------- ∞ TQFE
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.02 12:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Pac SubCom Edited by: Pac SubCom on 02/01/2008 12:29:03
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Pac SubCom Lvl 5 EFT skills is Rank (1) + (3) in this setup.
For Autocannon Spec lv 5? Really? Amazing...
Man you're cheap.
Only fridays. After that, it costs $5 an hour.
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Zissou
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.01.02 14:13:00 -
[27]
I think Cown should make a new video and explain to the narrow minded trolls in this thread exactly what he means.
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.02 14:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Grytok OP tatally fails at fitting Heavy Interdictors.
1. and most obviously: You forgot the WDFG 2. no Speedmod? 3. reliable on NOS? 4. come again...
Speed isnt an issue, and shouldnt be. Most a hictor should fit, is an MWD. Anything else, and its ruining its bonuses to tank (goes for all races, regardless of tanking preference). But yeah - rest of the points are very much so valid
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Doomed Predator
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.02 14:41:00 -
[29]
EFT tool uses all skills at lvl 5. So yeah when you do that I guess you should be able to tank 3 bses at once.
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Arsonin Flier
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Posted - 2008.01.02 15:05:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Cown Edited by: Cown on 02/01/2008 10:57:41 Hello CCP,
As a pleased user of EVE Online i'm stunned to see how well the new Heavy Interdictors can tank. I don't know if this was intended by CCP? Otherwise i think these are broken and needs to get nerfed whenever possible. It cant be right, that an Interdictor, can tank any Battleship, Command ship, Marauder, Balck Ops, Heavy Assault Cruiser and Carrier. This is based on pure damage and not ECM etc. In some extreme cases, the Interdictor will be able to tank up to 3 battleships simultanious (depending on their setups of course). I'm asking you, CCP, can this be right or do i need to stfu?
Here are some screens: Screen 1 1447 dps tank.
Cheaper setup: Screen 2 1178 dps tank.
1.) Anyone with a remote rep or two on them will tank much better than a broadsword that is running its bubble.
2.) Where is the scram? I'm confused.
3.) I feel like this setup might be vulnerable to neuts. If those invulnerability fields turn off, bye bye broadsword.
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