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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:06:00 -
[1]
Problem: Attacking other people in high sec without the rights, concord moves in to destroy ship, BlackOp battleship jumps out via covert op cyno into low sec and waits there until timer is off, so avoiding any drawback and risk.
Solution: Equip concord with jump-jammer which gives a certain CHANCE to jam any jumping away to the cyno.
This way people can risk their expensive black op ships and have a chance to get away, but usually they don't get away because concord jams them. Still there is a chance, and Eve is all about risk/reward. If people want to take the risk of getting shot down by concord, fine - let them be.
Don't kill the eve-sandbox concept. Don't introduce rules, let the players do all the stuff. Just adjust game-mechanics!
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Richard Phallus
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:09:00 -
[2]
This is not a solution, the exploit IS getting away from concord. If you get concords aggression you have to explode. You're only making it random. --
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Shaddam V
Amarr 9th Wonders
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:11:00 -
[3]
This isn't a new rule - it has been an exploit to evade CONCORD intervention. All the BO statement does is make that explicit.
One possible solution would be to disallow jumping from high sec in the event of a global criminal counter.
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:13:00 -
[4]
I think this should be allowed to develop, and see where the playstyle goes rather than imposing the 'avoiding concord is bannable' rule, ccp have afterall given players a very simple way of avoiding concord. -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. mooooooo. |
cal nereus
Hobos of War Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:18:00 -
[5]
CCP calls it an exploit, and as far as they are concerned, surviving Concord is itself an exploit. Now, surviving/avoiding the faction fleets is a different matter entirely. ---
Join BH-DL Skills |
Raynaar
Amarr Intergalactic Mining And Trade Corp.
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:23:00 -
[6]
Inability to evade CONCORD has been and always will be one of the core rules of EvE. That will not likely change, and if it does, I for one will begin to be concerned about the direction in which the game is going.
-Ray
Flyin' since CFS...
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Richard Phallus
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Raynaar Inability to evade CONCORD has been and always will be one of the core rules of EvE. That will not likely change, and if it does, I for one will begin to be concerned about the direction in which the game is going.
No one needed high sec anyway. Black-Ops Online!!! --
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Raynaar
Amarr Intergalactic Mining And Trade Corp.
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Richard Phallus
Originally by: Raynaar Inability to evade CONCORD has been and always will be one of the core rules of EvE. That will not likely change, and if it does, I for one will begin to be concerned about the direction in which the game is going.
No one needed high sec anyway. Black-Ops Online!!!
Actually, if you look at subscription statistics, if there were no empire, there would be not only no 0.0, but no EvE in the first place. Although this is a summary statement, if you think about it, it makes perfect sense...
-Ray
Flyin' since CFS...
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Vansard
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:56:00 -
[9]
Originally by: cal nereus CCP calls it an exploit, and as far as they are concerned, surviving Concord is itself an exploit.
Well that's the problem. If the rule is every time you attack in high sec, you get pawned. Then make the ship self explode and take all the concord away. It make no sense if it's only there to pawn someone, only use server CPU for nothing.
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Richard Phallus
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Posted - 2008.01.05 08:57:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Richard Phallus on 05/01/2008 08:59:22
Originally by: Vansard
Originally by: cal nereus CCP calls it an exploit, and as far as they are concerned, surviving Concord is itself an exploit.
Well that's the problem. If the rule is every time you attack in high sec, you get pawned. Then make the ship self explode and take all the concord away. It make no sense if it's only there to pawn someone, only use server CPU for nothing.
Suicide ganking is there on purpose, but the vital part of that is the suicide. Also it's what makes 1.0 - 0.5 different from eachother. --
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Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2008.01.05 09:22:00 -
[11]
Why make a solution to an exploit?
Just permaban ppl when they do it after a 1st warning from GM and the word would soon spread!
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2008.01.05 09:55:00 -
[12]
Only CCP didn't see this coming
Originally by: Tarminic
Okay, that's it. You are on the KOS list, and you better pray that I don't have access to a locater agent.
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Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.01.05 10:43:00 -
[13]
I really just don't get it.
I know that there needs to be a delayed CONCORD response, and that once they arrive somewhere, they should not necessarily be able to insta-pop the offending ship(s), or else people would quit suicide ganking. Without suicide ganking, 0.5-1.0 would be 99.99% safe, and no one wants that.
Still, you'd think they'd put a failsafe cheat in there, like a delayed instapop on a timer or something (giant MEGACONCORDOKKEN Titan showing up after a minute or so, etc.). It just seems odd to me for a game company to say, "Sit here and die to these guys, even if you can escape, or we'll ban your account."
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.01.05 10:54:00 -
[14]
Hmm, so you are allowed to jump within empire with covert-OP's.
Simple enough solution would be that you are not allowed to nither initiate a jump or place a cyno in empire.
If the intent is that you should be able to jump from empire then simply prevent it when global agression is on.
Also CCP should come out and state if this is an exploit and inform the playerbase that ALL use of this will be tracked down and fixed (people who have done it should contact CCP for more lenient punishment) and all future transgressions of it upp untill the time when it is fixed get punished hard and get a ban for say a month if its a first offence.
Simple really...
As for all this crap about suiciding being allowed and thus you should be able to get away/why not just autodest the ship.
Well suiciding is an intricate part of the game, I dont like it as is as there is really no penalty for it (dont even try) but its ingame and thus I accept it.
The rules however are simple, attack in empire and loose your ship.
The reason the ship is not simply popped is that you are suposed to be able to prolong your death to kill tougher targets, not so that you should get away.
In all this kind of reminds me of the old bait and switch the suiciders used to do, kill -> warp to safespot -> jetison.
As far as I understand it CCP fixed that thus I have no fear they will not fix this.
And lastly then, why use a covert-op to do suicide runs? Why risk such an expensive ship when insurance removes the only drawback of it that cyoning out will leviate?
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari SIVAKASI
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Posted - 2008.01.05 11:23:00 -
[15]
Is it possible to prevent combat in 0.5 to 1.0 unless the target is a NPC or war target? That too would not use CPU, would it? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment -KB- |
Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.01.05 11:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Is it possible to prevent combat in 0.5 to 1.0 unless the target is a NPC or war target? That too would not use CPU, would it?
Why would you want to?
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Sisohiv
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Posted - 2008.01.05 11:34:00 -
[17]
I'm wondering if this is an urban myth. Concord show up 2 seconds before a ships explosion effect ends and hit with enough firepower to wipe out a Dred in under 5 seconds. Even if it took the black op as long to jump as it does for a BS to warp, it isn't getting away. I'm guessing any Black Op that killed in safe had kill rights and wasn't actually evading Concord.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari SIVAKASI
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Posted - 2008.01.05 11:34:00 -
[18]
Because there is no need to use CPU unnecessary and it would definitely prevent any future exploit relating to Concord in 0.5 to 1.0. I see it as fixing the root of the problem and not around it. Unless you like fixing leaking holes along a pipe every now and then rather than changing the defective pipe. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment -KB- |
Arknox
Minmatar In terrorem KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.05 11:41:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Arknox on 05/01/2008 11:43:16
Originally by: Sisohiv I'm wondering if this is an urban myth. Concord show up 2 seconds before a ships explosion effect ends and hit with enough firepower to wipe out a Dred in under 5 seconds. Even if it took the black op as long to jump as it does for a BS to warp, it isn't getting away. I'm guessing any Black Op that killed in safe had kill rights and wasn't actually evading Concord.
wait.. what?
jumping is instant.
and concord response time can be up to 10-15 seconds in 0.5
the point is that BEFORE concord gets at the scene you can jump out to lowsec, since jumpdrive doesn't get a agression timer that would prevent docking or jumping through a gate. warping out would only postpone the destruction of your ship till you come out of warp.
note that if concord does scrambles you your jumpdrive is also scrambled
also note that a blackops can have in fact very nice dps making it very easy to kill something smaller and still having time to jump to safety
now imagine 50 blackops ganking a freighter and jumping out before concord gets there...
loss: 0mil
profit: billions
if it was allowed pirates would be doing this in a couple months all the time ----------
Originally by: JeanPierre
You need to examine Minmatar ships bro.
No kidding, I tried to Salvage one last night. Took me 20 cycles before the pilot convoed me and told me to stop it.
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Sisohiv
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Posted - 2008.01.05 11:48:00 -
[20]
Jumping is Instant.
I wasn't aware of that and I have been concorded in .5 sec. Didn't feel like 15 seconds. But if Jump is instant and your target has low sec rating, yes it could be an exploit.
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cal nereus
Hobos of War Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.05 11:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Vansard
Originally by: cal nereus CCP calls it an exploit, and as far as they are concerned, surviving Concord is itself an exploit.
Well that's the problem. If the rule is every time you attack in high sec, you get pawned. Then make the ship self explode and take all the concord away. It make no sense if it's only there to pawn someone, only use server CPU for nothing.
Well, see, this is where it gets complex. CCP actually does want it to be possible to attack someone in high sec. CCP is a-okay with suicide ganks... as long as it really is suicide. ---
Join BH-DL Skills |
Sisohiv
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Posted - 2008.01.05 11:56:00 -
[22]
Another solution might be to allow for Concord Evasion. With a 2.0 hit to sec.
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Ama-gi
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Posted - 2008.01.05 11:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Raynaar Inability to evade CONCORD has been and always will be one of the core rules of EvE. That will not likely change, and if it does, I for one will begin to be concerned about the direction in which the game is going.
Originally by: Raynaar
Actually, if you look at subscription statistics, if there were no empire, there would be not only no 0.0, but no EvE in the first place. Although this is a summary statement, if you think about it, it makes perfect sense...
-Ray
Flyin' since CFS...
first off, Raynaar, read your own characters bio... and i quote it here for everyone to see your hypocrasy...
Quote: "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
that's in your bio man... now read what you're writing.. tsk tsk tsk.
But seriously... no it hasn't always been considered an exploit to survive an attack (provoked or otherwise) from concord.
Aside from the whole nasty incident that occured in Crielere where Concord was firing upon innocent civilians at the entry/exit gates for no reason other than they felt like it, there is still the fact that back in the day many ppl were killing ore thieves by tanking Concord in their shiny new BS ( as concord didn't have BS yet ). I knew several people in my corp at the time that did it... often... usually to the cheers of the miners in local... and none were ever banned. I'm sure I would've also, if I were one of the special few to have battleships so early in the game.
Additionally, I'm fairly certain that avoiding death by concord is fine so long as you're not affecting any other real players in the process. This may have changed and if so, I'm even more certain someone will give me some shiny linkage pointing to when and where it did change... however, I believe that someone who goes into hi sec, locks concord ( and no one and nothing else ) and shoots at a npc concord ship ( and no one and nothing else ) is not going to be banned, nor is he exploiting anything or anyone in any way. (the concord pilots npc family might disagree with me, however .)
Now, I'd love to see the subscription statistics you're talking about. Care to offer a linky?
Finally, I am quite sure CCP will continue to make the game enjoyable for those who enjoy pvp and for those who don't. They want all our isks u see :) -- No love for the Matari |
Insidious
0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.01.05 12:03:00 -
[24]
im surprised concord don't neutralise
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari SIVAKASI
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Posted - 2008.01.05 12:09:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/01/2008 12:10:08 How about this, when someone shoots someone illegally, Concord will come and shoot the criminal with Railgun of Disability.
The effect is the Criminal will have all drones automatically abandoned, all target locks missing, capacitors are automatically discharged and all modules are automatically deactivated and shoot the Criminal until the ship is lost. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment -KB- |
Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Ama-gi
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Posted - 2008.01.05 12:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 05/01/2008 12:10:08 How about this, when someone shoots someone illegally, Concord will come and shoot the criminal with Railgun of Disability.
The effect is the Criminal will have all drones automatically abandoned, all target locks missing, capacitors are automatically discharged and all modules are automatically deactivated and shoot the Criminal until the ship is lost.
Guardwhacking for the UO style of lose... -- No love for the Matari |
Raynaar
Amarr Intergalactic Mining And Trade Corp.
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Posted - 2008.01.05 12:14:00 -
[27]
>>>Finally, I am quite sure CCP will continue to make the game enjoyable for those who enjoy pvp and for those who don't. They want all our isks u see :)
Hehe, kinda exactly the point I was trying to make :P
-Ray
Flyin' since CFS...
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Jacob Holland
Gallente 19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2008.01.05 12:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Only CCP didn't see this coming
Why would they need to? Evading CONCORD retribution has been an exploit since Tank CEO and his fleet of logistics fitted ships took on Yulai.
Whether you evade it by having friends remote repping you or by cyno'ing out before you're scrambled makes no difference.
Carriers and Dreads in Highsec haven't caused this problem, not just because mining veldspar doesn't bring CONCORD aggression but because it's understood that jumping out would be an exploit.
Ban everyone who's been using this trick frankly - just because a new ship comes out doesn't mean that the rules change. --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Arknox
Minmatar In terrorem KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.05 12:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jacob Holland
... Carriers and Dreads in Highsec haven't caused this problem, not just because mining veldspar doesn't bring CONCORD aggression but because it's understood that jumping out would be an exploit.
Ban everyone who's been using this trick frankly - just because a new ship comes out doesn't mean that the rules change.
errrm maybe cause if you jump your capital out of empire you can never go back ?
blackops can just use a stargate to get back in highsec ----------
Originally by: JeanPierre
You need to examine Minmatar ships bro.
No kidding, I tried to Salvage one last night. Took me 20 cycles before the pilot convoed me and told me to stop it.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2008.01.05 12:35:00 -
[30]
Avoiding shipdestruction by concord after an act of illegal agression in hi sec is an exploit and a bannable offence... PERIOD!!!
There is no if, but or why, u shoot someone without rights in hi sec, u get concorded, these guys that flew the blackops knew perfectly well what they were doing and also knew perfectly well it was against the rules. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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