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Yaturi
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Posted - 2008.01.11 08:14:00 -
[1]
So I was looking up the requirements for the heavy interdictor cruisers today. As an interdictor trainee pilot myself I wasn't pleased to find out that the skills needed to pilot one of these is less than what is required for the smaller interdictor. Only cruiser 5 (w/all the medium weapon stuff) and graviton physics 4 would be needed to train up after mastering the original interdictor skill set. Thats the huge gaping hole i'm talking about. To explain what I mean I'll highlight the contradictions in making such a small skill leap from small to heavy interdictor.
When compared to the regular interdictor's skill requirements (destroyer 5, interceptor 4 w/evasive maneuvering 5, and astrometrics 3 for warp disrupt probes) the heavy only has those 2 afermentioned skills in the above paragraph over what you would need to pilot the smaller version. Now does that make sense, having to train more for something less? Why on earth would someone train for an interdictor when they can get into a heavy a lot faster now. It doesn't add up. I dont mean to come down on CCP here but isn't it obvious that interdictor lvl 3 should be a requirement under the heavy interdictor skill book first in order to train that skill. Wouldn't that even things out? Just a thought.
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Zarch AlDain
The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2008.01.11 08:28:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Yaturi So I was looking up the requirements for the heavy interdictor cruisers today. As an interdictor trainee pilot myself I wasn't pleased to find out that the skills needed to pilot one of these is less than what is required for the smaller interdictor. Only cruiser 5 (w/all the medium weapon stuff) and graviton physics 4 would be needed to train up after mastering the original interdictor skill set. Thats the huge gaping hole i'm talking about. To explain what I mean I'll highlight the contradictions in making such a small skill leap from small to heavy interdictor.
When compared to the regular interdictor's skill requirements (destroyer 5, interceptor 4 w/evasive maneuvering 5, and astrometrics 3 for warp disrupt probes) the heavy only has those 2 afermentioned skills in the above paragraph over what you would need to pilot the smaller version. Now does that make sense, having to train more for something less? Why on earth would someone train for an interdictor when they can get into a heavy a lot faster now. It doesn't add up. I dont mean to come down on CCP here but isn't it obvious that interdictor lvl 3 should be a requirement under the heavy interdictor skill book first in order to train that skill. Wouldn't that even things out? Just a thought.
I had expected interdictors 4 to be a requirement too, CCP decided not to make any of the new ships dependant on old ones though - which I guess is fair enough as it opens them up to younger players.
Their are still many cases where a light interdictor is better than a heavy one (for example bubbling a fleet where the hactor will just be destroyed, or dropping a bubble then jumping through a gate which isn't even an option for a hactor).
They are different ships, not replacements.
Zarch AlDain
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Yaturi
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Posted - 2008.01.11 08:52:00 -
[3]
Meh, I still dont think its fair to open them up to younger players like that. We already got blockade runners crying about how gate camps are harder to get through, see here.
And personally I dont like to whine in the features and ideas forum but I've trained this whole time since I started in August to fly the interdictor. Meaning i've specifically stayed away from training any medium or above ship classes. This is sorta like kicking sand in someone's face to me, to put it in laymans terms.
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Yaturi
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Posted - 2008.01.11 09:21:00 -
[4]
btw Zarch who were you guys after in Heild today. That was one hell of a wrecking crew I saw coming out of the gate.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.01.11 10:23:00 -
[5]
The standard interdictor is 11 ranks of skills at 5 to fly with the interdiction launcher.
The HIC is what? 9 ranks at 5 to train? (AS not being in item database, I am not sure).
Yeah, it might not be that much compared to the HIC. But it did not make sense to require interceptor skill! Using an HAS (or any T2 cruiser it looks like) is 10 ranks at 5 it seems, so it's higher (or I missed one rank in the HIC?). And I'm comparing the HIC+the disruption field to just the HAS. SO, yes, there's maybe something wrong, it might be the easiest cruiser to learn.
The fact is that T2 cruisers are easier to fly than heavy dictor with sphere launcher... Maybe it was the dictor that was too high from the start.
Also, as you said yourself, if you were to use a HIC, you would train skills for T2 medium stuff, which makes some ranks more... And the 'drop bubble then flee' is not the same as 'deploy and stay as a sitting duck cruiser on normal speed'. It makes much difference in small scale engagement, breaking HICs is not easy at all, but interdictors may survive larger engaments maybe.
PS : if someone has the exact number of ranks at 5 to fly the HIC and to use the disruption field, it could help. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
ZiYauRen
Gallente SDOD Security Sang Do Oligarchic Democracy
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Posted - 2008.01.11 12:16:00 -
[6]
You guys are most likely past this point now but it does make a difference on how you skill up to a guy 'at that point'. Like me. I decided to step back from bs and skill up the smaller ships not long ago. I was just about to start the climb to destroyer 5 when the HIC showed. Even though I don't plan to fly an HIC soon, if ever, I still went to evemon n cancelled out destroyer 3-5. Now i'm skilling up logistics, recon, and hvy assault ships and not planning on an interdictor or hic anytime soon. So regardless of the other issues i'm pretty sure how guys skill up has been affected by this. The 'drop n run' or 'stick it out' styles are something i'm not prepared to decide just yet. I'm sure a lot of new guys will just skip it because its easier to train tho.
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Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2008.01.11 13:51:00 -
[7]
There's a thread on this in the SKILLS part of the forum and you're right it isn't logical that the requirments are low.
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Yaturi
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Posted - 2008.01.11 22:14:00 -
[8]
To make it clearer for those who dont understand what we're discussing in this thread, allow me to make it clearer for you.
To fly and properly utilize an interdictor you need: (small weapon/support skills) + Navigation 3 Spaceship Command 4 Frigates 5 Destroyers 5 Evasive maneuvering 5 Interceptors 4 Interdictors 1 For the warp disruption launcher/probes Science 5 Engineering 5 Graviton Physics 1 Astrometrics 3 (probes) Electronics 3 Propulsion Jamming 5
To fly and properly utilize a heavy interdictor you need: (medium weapon/support skills) + Spaceship Command 5 Frigates 5 Cruisers 5 Weapon upgrades 5 For the warp disruption field generator Science 5 Engineering 5 Graviton Physics 4 Electronics 3 Propulsion Jamming 5
Fair? No. Illogical? Yes.
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Yaturi
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Posted - 2008.01.11 23:05:00 -
[9]
Heres what I feel would be the ideal skill plan for a ship such as the hactor:
Navigation 3 Spaceship Command 5 Frigates 4 Destroyers 5 Evasive maneuvering 5 Interceptors 4 Interdictors 5 Cruisers 5 Battle Cruiser 5
Make BC level the new secondary bonus to a hactor. Why? Because its comparable to how destroyers are an interdictors secondary bonus in that they are both unique offshoot ship classes.
And for the skills to use the disrupt generator: Science 5 Engineering 5 Graviton Physics 4 Astrometrics 4 Electronics 5 Propulsion Jamming 5
This would add a considerable amount of time to the table, which is good. It follows the staple of eve gameplay, diminishing returns. Which is where you have to work increasing harder for something just a tad better.
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Yaturi
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Posted - 2008.01.11 23:39:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Yaturi on 11/01/2008 23:41:32 Oh yeah, make the Mrymiden the new Gallente hactor model . Thorax already has a t2 variant in the Deimos. Everyone that flys Gallente loves the Mrym's looks and its the most similiar looking ship to the Catalyst and Eris you will possibly find. Apply this to the other races while your at it. So, now that i'm done trashing the new hactors i'll say this. They are great ideas and I'm still going to fly one, but they just need adjusting bad.
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Yaturi
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Posted - 2008.01.12 20:52:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Yaturi on 12/01/2008 20:53:29
Quote: and its the most similiar looking ship to the Catalyst and Eris you will possibly find
Sorry for the mspaint mock up. I dont have adobe photoshop because i'm too lazy to download it, but you get the picture.
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Yaturi
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Posted - 2008.01.12 21:34:00 -
[12]
This also brings me to another issue i've been thinking about ever since I started in eve. The Eos command ship. Who uses them? They have a cool drone bay bonus yet they still have the same bandwith as a Vexor. There nerfed all to hell to be honest. Plus why are both command ship (field and fleet) classes using the same ship model for each race. I like the Astarte and all but wouldn't it be better if we used both battlecruiser models for T2 variants.
So again I must propose a new idea (and this is my personal opinion CCP, so take it with a grain of salt).
For Gallente: Take the Astarte and Eos command ship and blend them into one ship. I.E. take all the attributes and bonuses of both and blend them into one ship that would be the median of both classes (field and fleet). And just call it the Astarte command ship. Now take the Eos's name and give it to the new T2 heavy interdictor battlecruiser which I picture in the above post. And viola, you now have a tougher, more skill intensive, and cooler looking ship.
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Yaturi
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Posted - 2008.01.12 21:35:00 -
[13]
apply as needed to other races
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Utari G'Denoik
Gallente DEATHFUNK
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Posted - 2008.01.25 01:48:00 -
[14]
When you properly understand how to use each type, you will quickly understand there is absolutely no reason why they should require the same training skills simply because they may have similar roles.
I don't get your ideas about the EoS and general command ships as well. The beauty of them looking like lesser types is that some people will actually confuse them as such and overlook them as valuable targets of opportunity. While I think the EoS bandwidth should not have been screwed, it can use 3 warfare link modules at the same time. Perhaps you could take advantage of that bonus to make up for nerfage losses.
You gotta stop thinking solo on all account bud.
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Yaturi
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Posted - 2008.01.25 02:34:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Yaturi on 25/01/2008 02:36:40
Quote: When you properly understand how to use each type, you will quickly understand there is absolutely no reason why they should require the same training skills simply because they may have similar roles.
They actually do require a lot of the same training skills, its just that the better ship requires less. -Refer to my 4th post down from the top.
Quote: I don't get your ideas about the EoS and general command ships as well. The beauty of them looking like lesser types is that some people will actually confuse them as such and overlook them as valuable targets of opportunity. While I think the EoS bandwidth should not have been screwed, it can use 3 warfare link modules at the same time. Perhaps you could take advantage of that bonus to make up for nerfage losses.
That doesn't really surprise me, I dont expect that idea to reach many of you. It is one of my wild ideas which I properly mentioned in the post "to take with a grain of salt." But read over it again and you may understand it. It has to with revamping ship tiers and making battlecruisers have two t2 variants instead of just command ships. Also it has to do with remaking unused ship models, the myrmidon for instance and making an allround balanced ship out of the command ships, by blending the two into just one command ship.
^^^^Here, I switched my pictures to links so you guys can see them, since the mods of this forum started chopping all images and such.
Also, i'm pretty sure that fleet commanders know how to tell the difference between the new hactors and their cruisers, so its still first pop primaries. Might as well revamp them altogether, hence my Eos spielge. If you dont understand it thats cool, I just felt like getting it off my chest.
That is all.
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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.25 02:37:00 -
[16]
At a guess, they probably made the Heavy Interdictor's skill prerequisites low at release because they wanted to get all of the motherships out of lowsec ASAP.
I could see them adding in some other skill for HACtors in a later patch. |
Utari G'Denoik
Gallente DEATHFUNK
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Posted - 2008.01.25 02:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Yaturi If you dont understand it thats cool, I just felt like getting it off my chest.
Better man than me, you are! |
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