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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
33
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Posted - 2012.02.10 17:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
So what exactly is the point of the Vagabond, if you have all-V skills and the price difference is too small to care about? With similar fits, the Cynabal has the same dps (using light drones), the same range/tracking, better speed, better agility, and better EHP. The only relevant attribute I can find where the Vagabond is better is that it has a slightly lower sig radius and more of its EHP in regenerating shields instead of non-repairable armor/hull.
So: am I missing something, or is the Vagabond really only useful for selling to buy Cynabals? |
kyrieee
Doctrine.
FEARLESS.
7
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Posted - 2012.02.10 18:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
T2 resists and more people will engage it |
Roosterton
Syndicalis Immortalis
318
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 18:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
The only legitimate use I've found for a Vaga over a Cyna is ratting Sanshas/Blood raiders due to high EM/therm resists.
Apart from that, Cynabal is better in every way. Nerf Angel  |
Zarnak Wulf
CTRL-Q
Iron Oxide.
236
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Posted - 2012.02.10 18:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Cynabal is ridiculous. Frigate scan resolution. Insane agility. Super fast. It has the fitting to slap just about anything onto itself and keep the largest tier AC.
To the OP - It obsoletes the Vagabond. Rather then mix Minmatar and Gallente traits ala pirate faction, - it takes the Vaga, puts it on steroids, and slaps a Gallente drone bay onto it. Very original.  |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
33
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Posted - 2012.02.10 18:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Very original.
Exactly. This is why it's been annoying me, it's such a stupid decision that I was hoping there was something I'd missed that makes it less one-sided.
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Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.02.10 19:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cynabals used to be a lot more expensive then vagabonds so you were putting a lot more isk on the table for basically the same ship that does everything a bit better.
With current prices.........meh fly Cynaball |
Ravenesa
The Bastards
The Bastards.
5
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Posted - 2012.02.10 19:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Prior to the faction pirate redo the Vaga was superior, but then the devs get their Angels hard ones and gave us the redone Dramiel, Cyna, and an even more fierce Mach. The PvE farmers kicked into high gear and we now have the current situation. Rising prieces of T2 building, more supply for faction ships, etc. |
Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
28
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 21:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vaga is so oldschool and... minmatarish!
Vaga and Cyna are roughly the same. Yes, Cyna is slightly better in some fits, but generally I take them as 1 ship in 2 hulls.
Btw I think that Cyna is fugly (cockroach with bulged face) and Vaga looks much better.
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Katalci
D.I.R.T
27
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Posted - 2012.02.11 02:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
If your gang has logi, use a vagabond. If not, use a cynabal.
Roosterton wrote:The only legitimate use I've found for a Vaga over a Cyna is ratting Sanshas/Blood raiders due to high EM/therm resists. ]
You can get a decent mining yield out of it, too. |
Belthazor4011
Battle BV
5
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Posted - 2012.02.11 03:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
If you dont care about the price difference get a Cyna.
But I think the price difference is still big enough to get a Vaga. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
775
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 03:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
kyrieee wrote:T2 resists and more people will engage it
Yeah, pretty much.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
132
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 10:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
cyna can fit artys and make them work |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
801
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 23:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
If only the Vigilant was at same price than Cynabal I'd probably stop flying Cynas (the WE OC) |
Djakku
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
47
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Posted - 2012.02.11 23:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Drake can crush both ships, why use either?  |
Belthazor4011
Battle BV
6
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Posted - 2012.02.12 00:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Djakku wrote:Drake can crush both ships, why use either?
Where you born dumb or do you take daily pills?
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Osvaldr Adridian
Tartarus Ventures
Surely You're Joking
0
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Posted - 2012.02.12 08:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Belthazor4011 wrote:Djakku wrote:Drake can crush both ships, why use either? Where you born dumb or do you take daily pills?
http://i.imgur.com/wGQin.jpg |
esc shk
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.02.12 10:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Djakku wrote:Drake can crush both ships, why use either?
You're implying a Cynabal or a Vagabond is gonna even want to get disrupt range of a Drake and that the Drake will catch them |
Belthazor4011
Battle BV
6
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Posted - 2012.02.12 12:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Osvaldr Adridian wrote:Belthazor4011 wrote:Djakku wrote:Drake can crush both ships, why use either? Where you born dumb or do you take daily pills?
That poor soul talks about a ship that is not part of the subject of the thread.
It be nice if people kept the Drake, Tengu, Winmatar and all other simple minded answers and believes out of threads that do not discuss these things.
In a thread called 'Vagabond vs. Cynabal: what am I missing?' try talking about oh, I dont know maybe the Vaga or the Cynabal and acutally help the OP and others in this thread. Instead of making me type first of all how dumb the original Drake poster was and now how dumb you are for eye rolling it...
On topic repeat, its the an ISK difference I say its big enough to buy a Vaga but if you dont then get a Cyna |
Ryuce
28
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Posted - 2012.02.12 15:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Belthazor4011 wrote:Osvaldr Adridian wrote:Belthazor4011 wrote:Djakku wrote:Drake can crush both ships, why use either? Where you born dumb or do you take daily pills? That poor soul talks about a ship that is not part of the subject of the thread. It be nice if people kept the Drake, Tengu, Winmatar and all other simple minded answers and believes out of threads that do not discuss these things. In a thread called 'Vagabond vs. Cynabal: what am I missing?' try talking about oh, I dont know maybe the Vaga or the Cynabal and acutally help the OP and others in this thread. Instead of making me type first of all how dumb the original Drake poster was and now how dumb you are for eye rolling it...
On topic repeat, its the an ISK difference I say its big enough to buy a Vaga but if you dont then get a Cyna
Because mentioning a cheaper and highly effective ship (when flown by PODLA etc.) is a really bad thing? One might say he made a suggestion outside the box - what a bad man! By all means go full ****** here.
Also, a white knight appears etc. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
381
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Posted - 2012.02.12 15:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:So what exactly is the point of the Vagabond, if you have all-V skills and the price difference is too small to care about? With similar fits, the Cynabal has the same dps (using light drones), the same range/tracking, better speed, better agility, and better EHP. The only relevant attribute I can find where the Vagabond is better is that it has a slightly lower sig radius and more of its EHP in regenerating shields instead of non-repairable armor/hull.
So: am I missing something, or is the Vagabond really only useful for selling to buy Cynabals?
actually, the most relevant differences is the agility, 3rd rig slot and the fact that it can fit 425's better with a LSE.
speed difference is actually quite negligible, as in the 1% difference, the larger drone bay, while a good thing isn't really that spectacular (instead bringing a flight of light ECM drones you either bring two or a flight of T2 warriors).
in fact, you can say that the extra you pay for the cynabal is to have better GTFO ability and fittings than the vagabond.
tbh both ships should've had their base powergrid swapped.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
36
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 19:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ryuce wrote:Because mentioning a cheaper and highly effective ship (when flown by PODLA etc.) is a really bad thing? One might say he made a suggestion outside the box - what a bad man! By all means go full ****** here.
Also, a white knight appears etc.
No, he made a ****ing stupid suggestion that misses the entire point of the topic. When a Drake can go 3.5km/s it will be a viable alternative. Until then, anyone who thinks a Drake can do the job of a Vagabond/Cynabal is an idiot. |
Gorefacer
STRAG3S
THE UNTHINKABLES
17
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Posted - 2012.02.13 07:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
esc shk wrote:Djakku wrote:Drake can crush both ships, why use either? You're implying a Cynabal or a Vagabond is gonna even want to get disrupt range of a Drake and that the Drake will catch them
It happens. They are great ships to run away in though. |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Late Night Alliance
203
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Posted - 2012.02.13 09:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
It wasn't very long ago that a vaga cost 100M while a cynabal cost 300M. At the time, the price balanced out the performance difference. This is no longer the case and for now, the vaga is largely redundant. It's only real advantage is a better resistance profile making it easier to keep alive with logi. The cynabal has greatly superior PG though, making arty the standard instead of AC's. Toss in a RF disruptor and a loki booster alt and you have absolutely no reason to come within 40km of an enemy ship.
Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Noisrevbus
80
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 11:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
It's been insinuated already, but since no one followed up to explain it ...
The one reason to use a Vagabond over a Cynabal in certain PvP-situations is resistances. Resistance is a mitigation modifier in your EHP, so it grows incremental with the use of remote transfers from Logis. When you have a certain number of Logis in your gang, the Vaga will gain a comparatively better survivability, until you do the Cynabal have the better survivability (tank, agility etc).
10k buffer / 50% resists - 5k buffer / 75% resists = same EHP, but the latter gain twice as much from each cycle of remote rep.
All other differences are quite negliable, since even if there's agility or fitting differences resulting in slight advantages here and there, many advantages come with drawbacks while both ships are so specialist they remain in a cathegory quite of their own (such as not wanting to use your extra bandwidth for larger drones, because small drones are very role-specific and important to you). |
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
38
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Posted - 2012.02.13 17:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cynabal allows for a way more aggressive game-play:
- Agility is noticeably better, and so is acceleration / orbit speed etc, despite the very slight speed diffs with cookie fits
- Scan resolution is not "Frigate-class", but easily best in cruiser class.
- Guns are bigger, and falloff deeper. Properly flown, tracking is not an issue @ range (tho arties are not my cup of tea and I never use them, I'm talking RoF here
 )
- The 5th mid. Ppl fit tank in it usually. I tend not too. Most of the times you don't die cause you weren't tanky enough in a Vaga, because you are either hosed (webbed/scrammed) or you are making your way out way before your tank gives in.
- Price - picked up a bit for the cyna, used to be like 35-40M difference. It's not much even now @ 60M, unless you are losing one or two per gaming session.
- Drone bay - spares, versatility - f@gotry - does it all (the other day one did not die to a solo drake cause of 5x Vespa ECs...)
The larger the gang, the less impressive the Cynabal over the Vaga tho, especially if there are other faster tacklers in the mix.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
-- Bertrand Russell |
Darkside 34
Tri-gun
Psychotic Tendencies.
0
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Posted - 2012.02.13 17:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
The really hilarious part about this, is that the cynabal is very effective at killing other ships, and the vagabond is somewhat effective at killing cynabals.
I've seen many people kill cynabals solo in vagabonds even.
Each has its own place, each has its own purpose. Stop whining. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
37
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Darkside 34 wrote:I've seen many people kill cynabals solo in vagabonds even.
So what? I've seen people kill Vagabonds in haulers, that just means that some people are really good at EVE and some people will die no matter how much "better" their ship is.
Whether or not a Vagabond can kill a Cynabal is irrelevant, the question is whether the Vagabond is better at killing Cynabals than a Cynabal.
Quote:Each has its own place, each has its own purpose. Stop whining.
If there's no reason to ever fly the Vagabond instead of the Cynabal, game balance is broken. Even if you can still do reasonably well in the Vagabond if you had to fly one, why would you pick it? So far we've got two answers, and neither of them are good:
1) More people will fight you. IOW, the ship is clearly worse, to the point that people aren't going to be scared off as easily. This is hardly an advantage worth making deliberate game balance choices over.
2) The Vagabond's T2 resists work better with remote reps. Obviously this is true (and something I forgot to mention), but it's much less relevant for a solo-focused Vagabond than it would be for, say, a Drake blob.
So, other than these two minor "advantages", please explain just what "purpose" there is where you feel that the Vagabond does the job better than the Cynabal.
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