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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
456
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Posted - 2012.02.28 04:29:00 -
[241] - Quote
I do like the end game content topic alot so I guess I can start there.
I had forgotten about your pretty stellar past and time with the game. I suppose someone who does as much as you constantly, end game content would feel normal or just regular game playing. I suppose EVE will need end game content as well as UBER end game content for you and like minded players.
My definition of end game content is how the Devs do work and their high lvl or work to the game. I do like the sandbox, but we do pay money for devs to come up with ideas. So Devs doing alot = end game content, but then sandbox and players doing things. Maybe they could conflict and be hard if they do.
Just maybe had a good idea, so will skip there. Where you liked Titans but its hard to balance them and have them operate well. As well as you liking fleets and them doing well but that balanced with sandbox and number of players = trump card. I really have liked the T2 ship design with the roles that they are given. ( honestly and sadly dont have the SP to fly them, so those ideas are a bit rough.) Those roles are like a warrior or a mage in way. That does get a bit wierd when said. So the T2 ships are created and have roles that give them advantages over non role ships. Of course a blob is stronger then the T2 ships roles are plus T2 is expensive as well. So I thought the balance for this or crux, could be T2 titan and SC as well as regular capitals.( Also T2 with emphasis in roles. so T2 caps and titans would have a new role to go with them.) Those T2 with the T2 sub cap support could be a fierce fleet and give blobs a run for their money. Of course this is end game content and design. Propably not normal game design per se. I usually designate null sec as raid area and raids go well with end game content. So the Blob fleet vs. T2 fleets would happen propably in null sec mostly. Low and hi sec would be free from that happening. All I got so that is that.
You working on the wormholes is pretty unique as well since CCP stated no support would be given to them. Kind of why CCP wanted them to be nomadic not static. At least as how I took it. I do like the new ideas and stuff like you said you liked. But support is always hard really, and not sure where to gain it. Thought maybe you would know more about this perhaps.
Think that is all I have and thanks for the replies as well. Good reading disorientating |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1951
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 05:35:00 -
[242] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Lastly, I'm not really sure what the 'end game' in EVE is. To me it's not about just the ships themselves because there are a lot of social aspects to EVE that you can't balance with numbers. I'd simply put forth that it's obviously different things to different people.
^^ This.
How many times have we heard the complaints about EvE "turning into WoW" before?
If we're going to make a sandbox sandier, we have to abandon the old MMO paradigm of character development as a linear affair. To see the largest ships as "end game" content, or even to use the term "end game" at all, is to fall into the same trap facing conventional level-based systems. We shouldn't be surprised to end up wrestling with the issue of stat creep even in EvE, as special a snowflake as it may be.
I don't think most EvE players see big numbers as the real source of awe and excitement. As Seleene pointed out, these days Titans scale just like any other ship, and lost their appeal as soon as enough numbers appear in the game that focus fire takes away the novelty of their gargantuan size. When 1000 ships assemble in EvE, It matters little whether its battleships facing battleships, or titans facing titans. Stuff just starts popping.
The circumstances of the fight are the real thrill GÇô the story that led to 1000 players clashing in the first place. Of all the things about EvE that change with fleet size, narrative actually transforms more interestingly than anything else. The smaller the gang the more the pilots themselves are the heroes of the story. As fleets get larger, the characters in the tale become the corporations involved, and eventually the alliances, coalitions, and megalomaniacs that make the news.
Seleene is on to something really valuable here GÇô as a CSM we shouldn't be pushing the number or size envelope as much as we push for greater depth in gameplay. Titans should have an epic role to play in an engagement, and not simply become frontline fighters like the battleships of old, losing their sense of identity and purpose. |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
34
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Posted - 2012.02.28 12:22:00 -
[243] - Quote
ThisIsntMyMain wrote:Snowflake Tem wrote:...lots of good questions.... So I guess the important bit is .... After he's answered all of your question in a way you seem happy with, Are you going to Vote for Seleene ?
I'm coy, I like being courted.
but since Keldruum has not kicked me off his campaign thread in anger, it would be poor behaviour to back-stab him at he last hurdle. |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
34
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Posted - 2012.02.28 12:41:00 -
[244] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
The circumstances of the fight are the real thrill GÇô the story that led to 1000 players clashing in the first place. Of all the things about EvE that change with fleet size, narrative actually transforms more interestingly than anything else. The smaller the gang the more the pilots themselves are the heroes of the story. As fleets get larger, the characters in the tale become the corporations involved, and eventually the alliances, coalitions, and megalomaniacs that make the news.
I absolutely agree. This is the main reason why I donGÇÖt understand why 0.0 entities donGÇÖt consider themselves role-players and even despise the term. YouGÇÖve just described the epitome of role-play.
I do however understand why the link to role-play and empire space is frowned upon. Because it is too static, It is far too rigid even in Faction Warfare. So claustrophobic in fact that Gallente wannabe role-players are stuck with a Caldari Titen in Luminaire that we know we have absolutely no hope of shifting through in game mechanics. Could you tolerate that in your sovereign space?
This game will be real for role players when Rhoden shakes my hand and congratulates me for winning the presidency of the Gallente Empire and a none-violent coup d'+¬tat is widely known as a Snowflake special. |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1218
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:24:00 -
[245] - Quote
Snowflake Tem wrote:ThisIsntMyMain wrote:Snowflake Tem wrote:...lots of good questions.... So I guess the important bit is .... After he's answered all of your question in a way you seem happy with, Are you going to Vote for Seleene ? I'm coy, I like being courted. but since Keldruum has not kicked me off his campaign thread in anger, it would be poor behaviour to back-stab him at he last hurdle.
I'm much better looking than him and I really like your hair.... Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1218
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Posted - 2012.02.28 14:24:00 -
[246] - Quote
Snowflake Tem wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
The circumstances of the fight are the real thrill GÇô the story that led to 1000 players clashing in the first place. Of all the things about EvE that change with fleet size, narrative actually transforms more interestingly than anything else. The smaller the gang the more the pilots themselves are the heroes of the story. As fleets get larger, the characters in the tale become the corporations involved, and eventually the alliances, coalitions, and megalomaniacs that make the news.
I absolutely agree. This is the main reason why I donGÇÖt understand why 0.0 entities donGÇÖt consider themselves role-players and even despise the term. YouGÇÖve just described the epitome of role-play.
Coincidentally enough, Mittens just wrote a column about this exact thing: EVE Born.
While I don't agree with everything he says, I think that reading the article sheds some light on exactly why some players act the way you asked about. Up until the 'community' mind-set came to EVE, there was much more of a focus on maintaining at least a minimal illusion of staying true to EVE canon. It could be argued that I 'role-played' the fist big mercenary alliance; hell, just reading some of the old campaign posts that's an easy argument to make. Players like Sir Molle & Evil Thug certainly injected a bit of 'character' into their in-game persona. All of these people are typically pretty chill in real life and nothing like their in-game actions. Hell, the last time I checked, even Mittens doesn't wander through his neighborhood randomly murdering people and crowing about it to the 5 o'clock news.
Snowflake Tem wrote:I do however understand why the link to role-play and empire space is frowned upon. Because it is too static, It is far too rigid even in Faction Warfare. So claustrophobic in fact that Gallente wannabe role-players are stuck with a Caldari Titen in Luminaire that we know we have absolutely no hope of shifting through in game mechanics. Could you tolerate that in your sovereign space?
I ******* KNEW when that thing was put in there that it would be there until the servers shut down because CCP never bothers to follow through on story line elements properly. It's stupid. Another example - back in 2005, a Serpentis Admiral stole a Gallente titan (live event). It jumped through gates and did strange smart bomb stuff, but that didn't matter (there were no titans in EVE at that point). Players from everywhere rallied to kill the thing but a few folks in ATUK and the MC had other ideas - we attacked the fleets trying to kill the titan and prevent the theft. For several hours, we fended off all comers, eventually getting the Titan 'docked' up in Serpentis Prime. CCP was so taken aback by this unexpected turn of events that they had no idea how to even react or reward us. The end result was a few BPCs and hardly a mention of it in the news, not even something as simple as a permanent +10 with Serpentis or anything.
I tell this story to emphasize that I fully relate to where you're coming from and reverently hope that CCP wakes up and finds a way to resolve issues like this that tie into the actual fiction of EVE.
Snowflake Tem wrote:This game will be real for role players when Rhoden shakes my hand and congratulates me for winning the presidency of the Gallente Empire and a none-violent coup d'+¬tat is widely known as a Snowflake special.
I mentioned in an earlier post a Mordus Legionary Admiral that smack talked me and the MC in local; I still want to blow his stations up. Is that RP? If so, then I'm an RPer. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1951
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 15:36:00 -
[247] - Quote
Snowflake Tem wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
The circumstances of the fight are the real thrill GÇô the story that led to 1000 players clashing in the first place. Of all the things about EvE that change with fleet size, narrative actually transforms more interestingly than anything else. The smaller the gang the more the pilots themselves are the heroes of the story. As fleets get larger, the characters in the tale become the corporations involved, and eventually the alliances, coalitions, and megalomaniacs that make the news.
I absolutely agree. This is the main reason why I donGÇÖt understand why 0.0 entities donGÇÖt consider themselves role-players and even despise the term. YouGÇÖve just described the epitome of role-play. I do however understand why the link to role-play and empire space is frowned upon. Because it is too static, It is far too rigid even in Faction Warfare. So claustrophobic in fact that Gallente wannabe role-players are stuck with a Caldari Titen in Luminaire that we know we have absolutely no hope of shifting through in game mechanics. Could you tolerate that in your sovereign space?
Again, I think the stigma against RP that exists in EvE is a holdout from the way that role play is treated in other, more traditional MMO's. With only flowery speech and a narrow palette of actions with which to define a character, it ends up a lot more theatrical than it needs to be in EvE Online to be considered role play.
Deepening the sandbox should only enhance the ability to role play in EvE, not detract from it. Faction Warfare often gets stereotyped as a RP community, despite that being far from the truth. (See this battle report for evidence.) I actually wish there was MORE opportunity for role play in FW than currently exists, the problem lies in the lack of real consequence to system takeover. Players have come to expect the ability to shape the world around them in EvE, so when they come to Faction Warfare and find out they can't do that, immersion gets broken and players are left with only flowery speech again, just like any other MMO.
I want to see enemy-occupied stations actually turn their guns on the enemy. I want to see friendly mission agents taken hostage when you lose control of a system. I want to see militia pilots actually paid to fight each other instead of paid to shoot the computer. I'd love to see standings with the various NPC corps in EvE have more in-game consequences.
There is a lot of great backstory that surrounds those of us who live in Empire space, its a shame the game doesn't allow us to interact with it in a more visceral way. There are so many ways to enhance practical role playing in this game I hate to see it limited once again to fan fiction and speech patterns. Both can be fun but they only scratch at the surface when it comes to the ways we we should be able to define our personas in EvE Online. |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
34
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Posted - 2012.02.28 20:00:00 -
[248] - Quote
Seleene wrote:I'm much better looking than him and I really like your hair....
Why Seleene, for a Sebestor you sure know how to get this Gallente chickGÇÖs attention.
But iGÇÖm not in this for love nor money, I really think there is a fundamental problem with RP in EVE. As an EVE born - as The Mittani describes it: EVE promises a new player the universe and delivers just this: nothing, nothing, lies, disappointment and then the freedom to kick at each other in a way that is completely divorced from game lore.
I remember being devastated to find that the Hacking skill has nothing to do with breaking into another persons ship so that I could hi-jack it.
I remember being proud of my EVEmon skill plan to fly a Moros built to be an efective bounty hunter only to hear, actually donGÇÖt bother mate the bounty hunting system is a joke.
I still save up mission acquired boosters in the hope that CCP will revive the smuggling mechanic.
RPers donGÇÖt play this game for anything CCP has done for them as a new player, they play it despite of the glaring holes in the game mechs. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1951
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 20:11:00 -
[249] - Quote
Snowflake Tem wrote: I remember being proud of my EVEmon skill plan to fly a Moros built to be an efective bounty hunter only to hear, actually donGÇÖt bother mate the bounty hunting system is a joke.
I find great amusement in the fact that the personality quiz currently on the EvE website tells aspiring pilots they can be a "Bounty hunter" by training a drake and grabbing missions. I think we all know what that career path is going to get them labeled as by the existing player base, and its certainly not "bounty hunter". |
Delici Feelgood
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.02.29 08:21:00 -
[250] - Quote
Selene you seem to be the most concientious null sec candidate from my point of view.
Hope your CSM career continues as a result. |
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Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1743
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Posted - 2012.02.29 13:46:00 -
[251] - Quote
A blatant reciprocal bump for one of the most effective members of CSM 6. Re-Elect Trebor to the CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism!
My CSM Blog |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
79
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Posted - 2012.02.29 19:27:00 -
[252] - Quote
Adding t2 bpo's to the game for many years was considered a reasonable move, but with the advent of PI the empire POS costs went up by 20-30%, then again with fuel blocks the prices have almost doubled from pre-PI prices to run an empire POS.
Does CCP still think the t2 bpo's aren't a serious advantage when the t2 BPO holders don't require a POS to make their modules?
I can sit in Amarr and produce on the manufacturing slots right at the trade hub with only 3-4 days delay. If I were a t2 bpo holder, why wouldn't I do that?
In order to make t2 cap rechargers for instance. The outlay for 2000 units is 490m including datacores. The sale price for 2000 units is 1.3b. This requires 2 weeks of clickfest. EVERY DAY. Profit 800m. -420m for pos fuel costs for my large tower to do it all in.
Are t2 bpo's still a valid mechanic?
Is CCP going to stop nerfing newer industrial players? Or is PVP the only valid gameplay they see in the future?
What is your stance on this? Manufacturing Papercuts ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Mining Profession**
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
290
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Posted - 2012.02.29 21:22:00 -
[253] - Quote
I think there are *slightly* more defined roles for the player run alliances and groups than say faction war militias. Player groups tend to be together for some sort of reason.
I think I know a bit more about an eve player if I am familiar with their Player run alliance than I do if I just know they are in Caldari, amarr, minmatar orGallente faction war. The latter really tells me almost nothing about the person. They might be interested in pvp but thats about it. If someone is in pandemic legion, Noir, Goons, raiden, test, cva, tuskers, agony, or vetoe etc. I think I get *slightly* better picture of what roles they play in game based on the "roles" many of their alliance mates play.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Josef Huffenpuff
H A V O C
2
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Posted - 2012.03.01 06:42:00 -
[254] - Quote
I'll be Voting for Seleene, Two Step and of course, Trebor, this year.
All 3 have done sterling work on CSM6. Please keep up the good work guys |
S0mvera Delament
Freelance Tech Industries Cascade Associates
0
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Posted - 2012.03.01 11:45:00 -
[255] - Quote
For this you got all my votes ! |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
37
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Posted - 2012.03.01 13:03:00 -
[256] - Quote
YouGÇÖre on the short-list! what would be your Dream Team? |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
68
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Posted - 2012.03.01 16:31:00 -
[257] - Quote
Seeleene,
I will vote on you, but make those CCP guys work on that Clock hunter ship. I liked the aproval of this Idea, it will realy boost the Industry in Null-Sec expecialy for smal alliances that own few systems... |
FuSiOn 92
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2012.03.02 00:22:00 -
[258] - Quote
You also got my votes for your hard work and experience ! |
Genrom
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2012.03.02 18:08:00 -
[259] - Quote
Your one of the most energetic and enthusiastic people I've ever met in person. You've also always been a fantastic ambassador for the player created excitement in game.
Thanks for understanding what the issues in EVE are and making the communities concerns known to CCP.
You've got my votes for another CSM term!!
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1306
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Posted - 2012.03.02 19:25:00 -
[260] - Quote
Seeing as how I got asked about it a lot last week, I just wanted to point folks a couple of my recent blog posts:
Fighting for Industry
EVE's Industrial Revolution
Hopefully these will help answer some folk's questions. Feel free to ask more tho! Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
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Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
80
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Posted - 2012.03.02 20:41:00 -
[261] - Quote
Seleene wrote: My name is Mark Heard. I am 38 years old, married with a family, and split my time between homes in the United States and Germany. I was a member of the United States Army for four years before going to work for the U.S. Department of Defense for several years. In late 2006, I was hired as a Game Designer at CCP, a job I held until February of 2010 when I resigned to return to work in the Defense industry. I am now a small business owner in the United States with real estate interests in Germany.
Can't vote for a grown man who plays a female in an online space game sorry :( |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
45
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Posted - 2012.03.03 10:22:00 -
[262] - Quote
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:Seleene wrote: My name is Mark Heard. I am 38 years old, married with a family, and split my time between homes in the United States and Germany. I was a member of the United States Army for four years before going to work for the U.S. Department of Defense for several years. In late 2006, I was hired as a Game Designer at CCP, a job I held until February of 2010 when I resigned to return to work in the Defense industry. I am now a small business owner in the United States with real estate interests in Germany.
Can't vote for a grown man who plays a female in an online space game sorry :(
Child, only people confident of their masculinity can gift the world with avatars as beautiful as these. |
Josef Huffenpuff
H A V O C
4
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Posted - 2012.03.04 02:50:00 -
[263] - Quote
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote: Can't vote for a grown man who plays a female in an online space game sorry :(
So I'm curious as to who you will vote for then. Do you think that you would vote for say .... someone who cant think of a cool sounding original name and decides to be a US president instead for example ?
Trolling aside, your argument makes no sense. You aren't a dead president. We're all forum alts. Eve is a game and the avatars we wear are irrelevant. What's important to us as real people who play a game, is that the game works, doesn't have moronic design flaws and bugs that don't get fixed for years, and is fun for all of us.
Either vote for someone who can get that point of view across or STFU man.
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Ntrails
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
45
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Posted - 2012.03.04 02:55:00 -
[264] - Quote
i don't know, at least in the matrix online when i created a female character I got to watch her bum wiggle across the screen for days on end. When you are perpetually trapped in a capsule whats the motivation to do it, hmmm? |
Bliswonowon
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.03.04 03:01:00 -
[265] - Quote
I like your thoughts on industry. I've always considered industry and trade among the most fascinating aspects of EVE, in principle, yet extremely frustrating to get involved in. All areas of industry, from PI to mining to invention and manufacture, seem to have been designed to make the experience as dull, sterile and miserable as possible.
Take PI, for example. It's fairly easy for newbies to get into, so it's a shame the entire PI system is in such a sorry state that it'll leave most new players disappointed. PI sucks, both content-wise and from a bells-and-whistles standpoint. It has no depth to speak of, it has an irritating UI, and the circles-and-lines graphics aren't very attractive either. It's bizarre to think that any professional game designer could have come up with a system so completely devoid of any kind of fun.
PI could easily be an entertaining little minigame with complexity (note to CCP: "complexity" is not the same as "more hoops to jump") and meaningful choices, something some players might enjoy tinkering with for hours, something that looks and feels like managing a planetary colony. In other words, something akin to what was advertised before PI was released. Yet right now the only redeeming quality of PI is that you can get a decent profit out of it without spending too much time on it. Fixing issues like these, making the industry and economy aspects of the sandbox more accessible and fun, would benefit the game, and I hope you keep pushing for iteration in this area once you've been re-elected. |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
86
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 09:26:00 -
[266] - Quote
Awesome blog on industry this week.
I would really advocate anything that gave miners a home in 0.0 that isn't necessarily a rental agreement.
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
56
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Posted - 2012.03.04 22:32:00 -
[267] - Quote
Seleene wrote:IGÇÖve heard many space friends and colleagues point to Apocrypha as an example of a great expansion. Right now, with the amount of resources that have been refocused on EVE, there is the potential for an 'Apocrypha' nearly every three months.
Then, please, a new Apocrypha first within the next three months. After that, if it must be, iterate over old content. EVE needs an injection of fresh blood. Personally I am tired of "little things" and iterations.
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Kossaw
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
11
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Posted - 2012.03.05 13:28:00 -
[268] - Quote
Kolmogorow wrote:Then, please, a new Apocrypha first within the next three months. After that, if it must be, iterate over old content. EVE needs an injection of fresh blood. Personally I am tired of "little things" and iterations.
I hope we'll find that's exactly whats been announced with Inferno.
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Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
229
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 16:31:00 -
[269] - Quote
I never liked you.....but then I learned you had something to do with Wormholes so i guess now i love you.........
CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
45
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Posted - 2012.03.05 21:53:00 -
[270] - Quote
you must be doing something right - or very very wrong
see Seleene (http://goo.gl/Bn7aU) |
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