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mistress play
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:21:00 -
[1]
im getting a real impression that the scourge of eve is having a bad effect on the market
alot of items /ships that isk farmers can aquire easily have taken a real slump lately,such as datacores, faction battleships(raven in particular)
when ever i ask ppl i know that trade regularly in eve whats going on they blame the isk farmers as datacores are free money to minimaly trained ind characters
personnaly i think the gm,s should take a look at the ravens as they are nowhere near worth the 600k lp they cost compared to other faction bs,s
views?
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Clurk Brodon
Yog-Sothoth Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:41:00 -
[2]
We're all isk farmers.
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Ahn Riane
Blue Star Surveying and Mapping Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:45:00 -
[3]
Originally by: mistress play im getting a real impression that the scourge of eve is having a bad effect on the market
alot of items /ships that isk farmers can aquire easily have taken a real slump lately,such as datacores, faction battleships(raven in particular)
when ever i ask ppl i know that trade regularly in eve whats going on they blame the isk farmers as datacores are free money to minimaly trained ind characters
personnaly i think the gm,s should take a look at the ravens as they are nowhere near worth the 600k lp they cost compared to other faction bs,s
views?
looks like, you are one of thiese players who like to run missions and who has at least one RP gathering alt running. Guess you are not alone. Thats all about it.
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Capt Minor
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Posted - 2008.01.20 14:59:00 -
[4]
not really mate my main is pvping in delve as we speak
but i do use an alt to run missions and collect rp as you said
its just a 50% drop in price on the easily farmed items kinda sucks for us who play the game for what its about(pVp) and use an alt to fund such fun gameplay
i suppose my main gripe atm is that tha cnr is not worth **** atm and its still costs as much in lp as the others or round abouts
maybe ill just start suicide ganking in high sec to get my isk eh
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Giovanni F
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: mistress play im getting a real impression that the scourge of eve is having a bad effect on the market
alot of items /ships that isk farmers can aquire easily have taken a real slump lately,such as datacores, faction battleships(raven in particular)
when ever i ask ppl i know that trade regularly in eve whats going on they blame the isk farmers as datacores are free money to minimaly trained ind characters
personnaly i think the gm,s should take a look at the ravens as they are nowhere near worth the 600k lp they cost compared to other faction bs,s
views?
Sorry to sound a bit brusque, but if you don't like the lp cost for the CNR, just pay for it in ISK. If you have anywhere near that much lp, I would have to assume you've run enough missions to have the 430-500m needed to outright buy a CNR off of contracts. Isk farmers aren't ruining the market, it's just your mind playing tricks on you (one of my favorite songs from the 90s)
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Clurk Brodon
Yog-Sothoth Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Capt Minor
its just a 50% drop in price on the easily farmed items kinda sucks for us who play the game for what its about(pVp)
Actually a 50% drop in price on the easily farmed items means the market is working as intended.
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Capt Minor
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:12:00 -
[7]
as i said i am a pvp player that costs isk mate and cnr are crap i would never buy one
never mind ppl your missing my point
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Nocturnal Avenger
The Ankou The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: mistress play im getting a real impression that the scourge of eve is having a bad effect on the market
Are lowpriced CNR's etc. really a bad thing?
You sound bitter because competition arose.
- Carebear Pirate - |
Clurk Brodon
Yog-Sothoth Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:20:00 -
[9]
We got your point: you need to farm isk to sustain your PvP losses.
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SonOfAGhost
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.20 15:40:00 -
[10]
Believe it or not there is more than one item available from the LP store. Some of the others can be quite lucrative. Especially if you sell them where your main is instead of where all the other mission runners are selling the exact same thing(s).
Oh, and the market IS PvP, you may have noticed Eve is organized around corporations. ---
Originally by: Treelox Dear Mod,
Yes it was worth it.
--- Lag? GTFOOJ! |
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Richard Kitan
United Space Republic Research
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Posted - 2008.01.20 19:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Capt Minor as i said i am a pvp player that costs isk mate and cnr are crap i would never buy one
never mind ppl your missing my point
With the drop in prices and the torp changes, the CNR is actually a quite good PvP ship now. --
Richard Kitan Builder of Stuff |
Hena Penaza
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Posted - 2008.01.20 23:33:00 -
[12]
farmer vs real player the farmer will always out-compete the real player in game, so far CCP's policy has been to hit the demand-side of the RMT problem - they took money away from the buyers - but the supply side has long gone unchecked and is not ruining the game for real players
if you drop the 600lp on a navy raven to 400 for example what will happen is that farmers will sell them for 200 million ISK and at this point i'll stop buying any silly tech I ravens
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Dahin
Maza Nostra oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2008.01.21 03:46:00 -
[13]
Seeing that I've been sitting outside the popular missionhubs and checking out battleships, I have some overall view of the farmer situation in these.
On weekdays, AT LEAST 6/10 undocks from these stations are farmers. I can sense someone jumping up and screaming "bloody murder, how do you know they're farmers"? I can only reply, once you do this for such a long time, you can spot em from a mile away.
the 6/10 is a very reserved number. On weekends the real players seem to creep up more, so they end up around 50-50.
Why fly covops? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0WOIwlXE9g |
Kaivos
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Posted - 2008.01.21 12:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dahin Seeing that I've been sitting outside the popular missionhubs and checking out battleships, I have some overall view of the farmer situation in these.
On weekdays, AT LEAST 6/10 undocks from these stations are farmers. I can sense someone jumping up and screaming "bloody murder, how do you know they're farmers"? I can only reply, once you do this for such a long time, you can spot em from a mile away.
the 6/10 is a very reserved number. On weekends the real players seem to creep up more, so they end up around 50-50.
How do you know which ones are "farmers" and which ones are normal people?
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Dahin
Maza Nostra oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2008.01.21 19:49:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Dahin on 21/01/2008 19:53:47 All those little things that are exactly identical to them.
behaviour, shipnaming, swapping ships all the time between them. Similar birthdates. IDENTICAL fittings. identical cargo. identical responses to all types of external stimuli (stealing their loot and stuff) which is quite different from real players. Mass undocks. One salvages the mission of another. Mass logons/logoffs. You steal from one and another char flames you. Behavioural changes happen to all of them together (when you attempt to kill one all the rest start avoiding you). Common and minimal corphistory especially in joins and drops mostly to shadow-corps.
And that's right from the top of my head.
Oh, and ofc forgot to mention they are always online. the biggest giveaway of em all. And before a new smartass asks "how do you know they are always online?" I live a very erratic life and as such I'm logging in and out in all the timezones for brief amounts of time. Either they all together happen to logon/logoff as I do for a period of a few weeks or they are simply always online :P
Why fly covops? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0WOIwlXE9g |
YouGotRipped
Gallente Ewigkeit Galactic Research
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Posted - 2008.01.22 08:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: mistress play im getting a real impression that the scourge of eve is having a bad effect on the market
alot of items /ships that isk farmers can aquire easily have taken a real slump lately,such as datacores, faction battleships(raven in particular)
when ever i ask ppl i know that trade regularly in eve whats going on they blame the isk farmers as datacores are free money to minimaly trained ind characters
personnaly i think the gm,s should take a look at the ravens as they are nowhere near worth the 600k lp they cost compared to other faction bs,s
views?
This is a free market economy game, if you had more time and dedication you'd be an isk farmer too.
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2008.01.22 09:37:00 -
[17]
Farmers? There are other, prefectly reasonable explanations for the LP store shifts.
1) Nexus chip NPC buy orders were removed. These provided a floor to the value of an LP, artificially keeping the cost of LP store items like the CNR at a high level. Now that this floor is removed, prices are shifting to more realistic levels.
2) The Golem coming into the game has produced a very viable alternative to the CNR for it's primary market, mission runners. It is entirely expected that this competing product would reduce demand for the CNR and thus cause the price to fall.
The CNR has always been the most attractive of the faction battleships to work for, both in terms of a mission-runner wanting to upgrade their own ship, and as a method to cash out LP, due to their superior mission performance and relatively high demand. Given this situation, it is entirely normal that a disproportionate number of players would choose to run Caldari missions.
With a free market, this would have led to a gradual erosion of prices for goods in the caldari LP store, encouraging further players to enter one of the other factions instead. However, because of the nexus chip price floor, this did not occur and players kept accumulating in the caldari faction.
Caldari LP have been massively oversupplied for a long time, it is only with the removal of the artificial price floor that we are now seeing just how oversupplied they are.
Of course, now we are in this situation, it is likely to persist for a while. In a perfect market, supply would shift to other products, but there are significant barriers to this happening in this case. While there is likely to be a small bounce back as players explore the parts of the LP store that are not the CNR, standings provide a significant barrier against people wanting to switch to other faction stores.
The current situation is not a farmer crisis, it's the consequences of months of pent-up market distortion due entirely to game design. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Feirik
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Posted - 2008.01.22 09:48:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Feirik on 22/01/2008 09:50:31 Edited by: Feirik on 22/01/2008 09:48:20 Peng hi22, mang chi312, cheng lo0001, girl you777, girl you 776 and tang005 completely agree. There is no farmerproblem.
I suggest you check outside motsu, aramachi, irjunen or any other great missionhub. Convo the CNRs and ask what they think about the LP prices.
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YouGotRipped
Gallente Ewigkeit Galactic Research
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Posted - 2008.01.22 10:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Matthew
2) The Golem coming into the game has produced a very viable alternative to the CNR for it's primary market, mission runners. It is entirely expected that this competing product would reduce demand for the CNR and thus cause the price to fall.
Unfortunately you wrong are here and I won't be reading the rest of your post for fear of contamination. The Golem has just 4 launcher slots, considering that the average mission NPC BS fires at least one anti missile at every 2 of your salvos your DPS will be severely reduced. Couple that with the number of missions in which EW is used against you and you'll find out why those who bought this marvelous ship are so eager to resell it.
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Feirik
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Posted - 2008.01.22 10:28:00 -
[20]
You're wrong, defender missiles are chanced based not based on the missiles you shoot. Same with jamming strenght, npc jamming is a fixed %, nothing to do with your ship's sensor strenght.
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.22 11:58:00 -
[21]
CCP has repeatedly stated that NPC defender missiles are launched at a fixed probability per missile you fire, thus the Golem does not suffer any more loss of DPS to defenders than a CNR or any other ship for that matter. What it does suffer from is less DPS than a CNR: 4x2 < 7/.75
I only know one person who plans to fly them and he wants it so he can perma-tank any L4. Personally I consider them a big letdown and will not be flying one.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
YouGotRipped
Gallente Ewigkeit Galactic Research
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:17:00 -
[22]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 22/01/2008 12:20:07 I stand corrected then. However what you say is true for a high number of missiles fired. For low numbers the results can vary a lot.
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2008.01.22 12:26:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer I only know one person who plans to fly them and he wants it so he can perma-tank any L4. Personally I consider them a big letdown and will not be flying one.
Well, I wasn't trying to say that the Golem will replace the CNR completely, but it is an alternative depending on how you like to run your missions. And as long as some people are choosing to go with the Golem, it's presence will have reduced CNR prices compared to what they otherwise would have been.
Having said that, the removal of the LP price floor is likely to be the larger of the two effects we're seeing right now, hence why I went on to discuss that point in more detail. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Dahin
Maza Nostra oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2008.01.22 23:00:00 -
[24]
uityubjk, bughi, utyubjk, ofudjbfccdsf, qqq122, sdshhsa and vndlksj that just undocked from motsu produce way more lp's than "imperial consul", "zeusi", "hugesausage" and "pim g".
Yes, the removal of the nexus dropped the floor, but don't forget you're competing in an area where by my calculations there is at least one more lp injected in for every lp you make. As such you're in a market with twice as much supply as there should be. Arguably, removing the farmers would cause a spike in the price of an lp and cause an influx of missionrunners untill the balance gets closer to todays prices. Wait a moment... I think I just countered my arguments. Oh well, gtg this cnr has phat loot.
Don't get me wrong, I don't support missionrunners per se. I actually like to kill them in any way possible. Just stating some pretty obvious things.
Why fly covops? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0WOIwlXE9g |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.01.22 23:15:00 -
[25]
This entire thread is lacking in common sense.
If you feel a CNR costs too much LP for the ISK you'll get from selling it then do not purchase it from the LP store. Frankly, anyone who takes the CNR offers is unable to do basic math or too uninformed to know why they should be doing the math in the first place.
Do farmers screw up the economy? Yes.
Do farmers hurt traders? No, they actually help us.
Why? They often sell to buy orders, they do not use LP efficiently (thus providing extra money for those who do), they lose ships more often than regular players, and they buy ammo/mods from us. Among many other things.
The real problem is people selling ISK for RL cash. Eliminate this and you remove farmers/macro miners almost completely. The only ones who still do it will be people who actually play for the fun of it, not to make RL money.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Shaitis
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.23 11:28:00 -
[26]
90% of traders are alts of ppl pvping somewhere around. How can U afford pvp without having alt geting bilions ? "What is funnier ? 20 Matari slaves pinned to one tree or 1 Matari slave pinned to 20 trees ?" |
Assens Letta
Hunerian Science Institute Te-Ka
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Posted - 2008.01.23 11:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shaitis 90% of traders are alts of ppl pvping somewhere around. How can U afford pvp without having alt geting bilions ?
Originally by: Shaitis "What is funnier ? 20 Matari slaves pinned to one tree or 1 Matari slave pinned to 20 trees ?"
1- industry
2- depends on the types of trees and the positions of the pinning.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.01.23 11:43:00 -
[28]
Quote:
The real problem is people selling ISK for RL cash. Eliminate this and you remove farmers/macro miners almost completely. The only ones who still do it will be people who actually play for the fun of it, not to make RL money.
qft. I'll still be here if that happened with my Indy characters :)
Improve Market Competition! |
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