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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Saldoro
Disco Biscuits New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.01.25 12:06:00 -
[1]
Well it's finally happened. There are more people producing these than pilots to fly them. And many that fly them are looking for a way out. This week we've seen the Nyx drop to 15b in Sell Orders and they are still not selling. Mineral cost alone is 12.5b then you have the BPC, the POS, the logistics.
Mothership ganks are happening almost daily now. For the 25x carrier cost (or are standard T2 fit Moms going to be the standard now) why would you get in a Mothership? Certainly doesn't tank 25 times better. Doesn't shield or armour rep 25 times better, doesn't pwn 25 times better, doesn't hold 25 times more ships than a carrier.
Mothership now a liability in a fleet rather than a table-turner? Seems many think so if the most popular mothership in the game can't be sold for below cost.
Have we seen the end of the Mothership era? ---- Looking for secure research opportunities with no queues?
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.25 12:12:00 -
[2]
Nope, they're still tha uber miners And prices hasn't dropped, they are still around 17, just coz I did 15 doesn't mean you all have to follow lols.
But tbh, no I don't think it's an end, maybe just need to be balanced again so that they have a little better defensive capabilities?
(or nerf them to death and give them a mining drone bonus)
/c
Secure 3rd party service ■ the Love project |
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Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.01.25 12:15:00 -
[3]
I dont pay 15b isk to fly a giant slow unimpressive time consuming "shoot me" beacon. These hulls are so freaking huge, but all you get is more dronebay and a highslot? No thanks.
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.01.25 12:23:00 -
[4]
T2 fitted carrier is good, t2 fitted mom is bad - so there is a cost associated with the fittings too - especially if you want to shield tank.
On top of all that, you can't dock in one - which means you are stuck in the mom. . .no thanks. -----------
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Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.01.25 12:24:00 -
[5]
WHAT
You mean the 30% or so improvment you get over a carrier for the 900% price increase isnt worth it
oh wait ... |
Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.01.25 12:37:00 -
[6]
The EW immunity *might* be worth it if they could at least dock ... As they are now, 4-5x the cost of a Carrier would be reasonable.
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.01.25 12:39:00 -
[7]
A HAC cost about 100 mill (in worst case scenario) and a Cruiser about 4 mill. That is at least 10 times the cost, but I don't see a HAC do 10 times the damage, have 10x the tank, 10x the cargo hold and/or 10x the speed of a Cruiser.
Don't base your arguments on price, the most flawed reason.
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Firkragg
Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2008.01.25 12:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes A HAC cost about 100 mill (in worst case scenario) and a Cruiser about 4 mill. That is at least 10 times the cost, but I don't see a HAC do 10 times the damage, have 10x the tank, 10x the cargo hold and/or 10x the speed of a Cruiser.
Don't base your arguments on price, the most flawed reason.
let compare the maller and the sac. Fitted, insured, and setup nicely the sac is about 10 times more expensive. Its also does about 4 times the dps, tanks about twice as well, And is about 4 times as versatile (this versatility is why people fly t2 ships).
For a mom though i agree that they just arent worth it anymore. The ability for them to be tackled with what become an incredibly common ship means that they die just as easilya as thier cheaper counterparts
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Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.25 12:57:00 -
[9]
My opinion is that CCP have been very clever here.
They saw that Moms & Carriers (yes, I know this thread initially was just about Moms but bear with me) were being used in a way that they didn't like. So they announce a nerf. Oh look massive throwing-of-toys-out-of-prams happens, the whining drowns out even the noise of Oveurs personal bree fridge, CCP go "woah woah we were joking, lolz, it was all Zulupark's idea anyway!" and rein the nerfs in.
They then carefully design a ship, the HIC, specifically designed to screw with the things people are doing with capships that they don't like.
Once this takes effect, as it is now, and people stop flying these ships THEN they'll bring in a bunch of changes that make carriers & moms much more viable as fleet support ships but suck as solopwnmobiles. Everyone goes hooray CCP roxors they un-nerfed our capships!
Genius IMO. ________________________________________________________________
Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
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Asestorian
Domination.
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Posted - 2008.01.25 13:08:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Asestorian on 25/01/2008 13:08:42 Reading EON issue 1 I notice something: Motherships are designed for large alliance use. Think about that. Now look at those selling the Motherships. People keep buying these things because they're big and cool and they want to spend their ridiculous amounts of ISK, but they have absolutely no need to, and soon find that for their small corp Motherships are more of a pain in the arse than a useful tool.
There are some people who knew this anyway but still bought their Mothership, and they are determined to work around the problems that owning such a ship entails.
Basically, people aren't buying Motherships because they've realised that they don't need them, and don't have any use for them that Carriers can't already fulfil. For many large alliances Supercapitals in general have a use because they have the infrastructure to support them, where the extra cargo/ship space comes in handy, and the EW immunity helps to keep their Carriers, other Motherships, and even Titans, alive.
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MOZO
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2008.01.25 13:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Firkragg
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes A HAC cost about 100 mill (in worst case scenario) and a Cruiser about 4 mill. That is at least 10 times the cost, but I don't see a HAC do 10 times the damage, have 10x the tank, 10x the cargo hold and/or 10x the speed of a Cruiser.
Don't base your arguments on price, the most flawed reason.
let compare the maller and the sac. Fitted, insured, and setup nicely the sac is about 10 times more expensive. Its also does about 4 times the dps, tanks about twice as well, And is about 4 times as versatile (this versatility is why people fly t2 ships).
For a mom though i agree that they just arent worth it anymore. The ability for them to be tackled with what become an incredibly common ship means that they die just as easilya as thier cheaper counterparts
Its fairer to compare say the brutix and myrm. Yes the cost difference is higher, but thats usually the case with larger ships. ---------------------------------
Oh noes! |
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.25 13:13:00 -
[12]
"Inmune to all forms of Electronic Warfare" ________________________________________
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CCP Atropos
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Posted - 2008.01.25 13:17:00 -
[13]
They were never meant to be a common ship. The cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them was meant to make them more of a corporate level project, not something that caters towards solo play.
This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses.
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.25 13:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Atropos This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses.
Battleship Combat? Fun? Personaly? w00t!
Motherships are corporate assets - not alliance, you saw it here first.
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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CCP Atropos
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Posted - 2008.01.25 13:24:00 -
[15]
Well I'm QA Engineering so I can but suggest to them. And tie them up. And dangle them off the roof.
Sometimes they complain that it gets cold up there, but they eventually come round to my viewpoint...
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Ping Li
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Posted - 2008.01.25 13:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Atropos They were never meant to be a common ship. The cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them was meant to make them more of a corporate level project, not something that caters towards solo play.
This is one of the reasons I personally hound the Game Designers into making battleship and below class combat more appealing to the masses.
The reason people aren't flying them is not because of the cost and trouble of building them and the fact that you can't dock with them. People don't fly them because they offer next to nothing extra if compared with a carrier.
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Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.01.25 13:43:00 -
[17]
They would be real motherships and useful for large alliances if half a dozen battleships could dock in them with their pilots and cyno jump together with the Mothership ...
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Shamen
Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.25 13:55:00 -
[18]
An idea i recently thought of - its quite simple really.
Motherships - Requires two heavy interdictors with Focused scripts to hold it down from jumping out Titan - Requires 4 heavy interdictors with focused scripts to hold it down
These ships were meant to be taken down by teamwork - they are two of the most expensive ships in game and after the past week seeing 3 Motherships being blown up by rather small gangs, its apparent there is a problem. ______________________________________________
Shamen Dark Angel Battalion |
Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.01.25 13:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Shamen An idea i recently thought of - its quite simple really.
Motherships - Requires two heavy interdictors with Focused scripts to hold it down from jumping out Titan - Requires 4 heavy interdictors with focused scripts to hold it down
These ships were meant to be taken down by teamwork - they are two of the most expensive ships in game and after the past week seeing 3 Motherships being blown up by rather small gangs, its apparent there is a problem.
It takes more than 1 HIC to hold down and kill a MS pilot with a brain and decent fittings and sometimes not even 1 to take down a noob with crap fittings.
Looks good to me.
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.01.25 13:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shamen An idea i recently thought of - its quite simple really.
Motherships - Requires two heavy interdictors with Focused scripts to hold it down from jumping out Titan - Requires 4 heavy interdictors with focused scripts to hold it down
These ships were meant to be taken down by teamwork - they are two of the most expensive ships in game and after the past week seeing 3 Motherships being blown up by rather small gangs, its apparent there is a problem.
Were the motherships flying with a support fleet? If so how did the the rather small gang achieve victory. If not, then it sounds as if theres nothing wrong in terms of the general principal that a very large ship 'alone' can be taken out by a swarm of smaller ships.
Thats not to say I think M Ships are working well - they should be as 'corp ships' something that provides a 'mobile station' aspect, with industrial production capabilities and so forth.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
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Kappas.
Galaxy Punks Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.25 14:01:00 -
[21]
I think they should get huuuuge tanking bonuses and also a massive boost to their ship maintenance bay. Then they would start to creep towards being worth their price or effort to make them. __________________
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Shamen
Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.25 14:10:00 -
[22]
The other idea iv been thinking about is giving both the Mothership and Titan a 'Siege Shield' module.
Siege Shield Creates a 'force field' 30km around the ship allowing ships friendly to the pilot into the shield. *Requires 90% Capacitor to Activate * -100% Capacitor Recharge Rate * -100% Velocity * -100% Targetting Range CPU: 200 PG: 400.000 Fuel Cost: 100 Stront per 30min
Ofcorse im just throwing out ideas here, might work... ______________________________________________
Shamen Dark Angel Battalion |
Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.25 14:11:00 -
[23]
Sham we have wanted one of those since Mums and Titans were anounced.
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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Shamen
Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.25 14:17:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kirjava Sham we have wanted one of those since Mums and Titans were anounced.
Look who it was who wrote in the original mom thread lol. ______________________________________________
Shamen Dark Angel Battalion |
Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.25 14:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shamen
Originally by: Kirjava Sham we have wanted one of those since Mums and Titans were anounced.
Look who it was who wrote in the original mom thread lol.
I can't remember, linky?....
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.25 14:35:00 -
[26]
whoaaa... stop the train here. I don't fly them but my 0.02. Just because a bunch of morons buy isk, buy near skilled characters, can't be arsed to spend anymore skill time, fit their ships ridiculously poorly cause they maxed out their dad's credit card, have no combat experience and sit solo at a low sec gate, doesn't mean MoM's are dead. These ships are brutal to fight when they are in appropriate hands. Lets not let a few killmails all of a sudden taint their image. It doesn't matter if its MoMs or faction fit BS's getting pummeled at low sec gates or whatever. Ridiculous isk buying whether thru the farmers or massive gtc sales, everything else is just a consequence, and it will only get worse if a portion of the steam crowd shows up.
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Primnproper
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Posted - 2008.01.25 14:59:00 -
[27]
So by your arguement an intie that costs 7 mil (for example i can't check the prices now) isn't worth it because the t1 version costs only 100k, but wait that one is 70x the cost of the frig why isn't the inite 70 times better than the frig?
Oh thats right its because value for money goes down as the price goes up on all things in eve and always has.... ...
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Jayne Tamm
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Posted - 2008.01.25 15:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Matrixcvd whoaaa... stop the train here. I don't fly them but my 0.02. Just because a bunch of morons buy isk, buy near skilled characters, can't be arsed to spend anymore skill time, fit their ships ridiculously poorly cause they maxed out their dad's credit card, have no combat experience and sit solo at a low sec gate, doesn't mean MoM's are dead. These ships are brutal to fight when they are in appropriate hands. Lets not let a few killmails all of a sudden taint their image. It doesn't matter if its MoMs or faction fit BS's getting pummeled at low sec gates or whatever. Ridiculous isk buying whether thru the farmers or massive gtc sales, everything else is just a consequence, and it will only get worse if a portion of the steam crowd shows up.
i must agree with this too.
they are logistics ships essentially. you should not be able to solo in them. look at RL carriers......they are useless except in a support role (i.e.: no offensive capabilities).
you dont send a mom or carrier for that matter into the heart of a fight.....you sit back...delegate fighters out...and rep anyone that needs it. solo one of these and you are asking to be BS fodder!!
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McAltyalty
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Posted - 2008.01.25 15:04:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Primnproper So by your arguement an intie that costs 7 mil (for example i can't check the prices now) isn't worth it because the t1 version costs only 100k, but wait that one is 70x the cost of the frig why isn't the inite 70 times better than the frig?
Oh thats right its because value for money goes down as the price goes up on all things in eve and always has....
Except the Inti is far better than the t1 version and performs its role better, the mothership does not.
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2008.01.25 15:14:00 -
[30]
While I've yet to get the dough for a Mothership (all Isk I have I've earned the old fashioned way), I've always had a dream of using one for Exploration.
In my dream, the Mom carried the BS, probing ships, haulers and salvagers needed to run the Exploration sites. It would travel the systems providing support for Explorers, and when a nice complex was found people could Clone to it, hop into a waiting ship and run the complex.
Unfortunately, the recent nerfs coupled with Heavy Dictors/bubbles make that dream a bit foolish. I'll be doing this in 0.0, so normal dictors are very,very common. Heavy dictors just make life worse because they'll follow you, eliminating the chance of a bad bubble placement. The hauling nerf means that the logistics capacity is down, although it may still be adequate to handle complex loot.
I ask CCP to consider this type of Mom use as they re-spec Moms. Honestly: Had ANYONE EVER seen a Mom fit with a Clone Bay? Ever use it if you did?
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