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Chronnick Bladerunner
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Posted - 2008.01.25 14:22:00 -
[1]
To any aspiring probers... The general info when starting is all you need are astometrics IV, astrometrics pinpointing III, astrometric triangulation III and signal acquisition III. In practice you will spend HOURS if not days in a futile attempt to find an unknown.. while someone with lvl IV or V in previous mentioned skills will be able to find it within a few mins to an hour.
Seems a bit off considering theres only a 10% diff between lvl III and lvl V in scan strength and deviation... 10 % in each of those should NOT mean 10000% increase in time spent to find something...
THE REASON EXPLORATION an EXPEDITIONS SUXORZ I recently got an increasingly difficult escalation.. np.. on Third escalation I warped into a nice Batch of BS's and my Hyperion outfitted w/ LAR IIx2, 1x armour aumentor (whatever 1.15x rep amount) and was dual remote repped by a guardian.. It went down within a minute. I had described the site to a more experienced corpy and he said OW if its the same one I did..BE CAREFUL then he linked me a pic of a Battleship known as Jorun "Redlegs" Greaves.. a 17m bounty named! and said he got 2 Nice faction drops out of it..like a Gist x booster! etc. SO needless to say it is enough to spur me on.. I FINALLY get to the last stage..Jorun spawns and I dispatch him..eagerly tractor in the wreck..anticipating a payoff for the 18 hours Ive devoted to the entire task.. Here is what I got form a 17M bounty NAMED rat. 1000 rounds Arch Angel Carbonized Cross-lateral Gyrostabilizer Additional thermal Barrier XS Prototype Webber and an Initiated Harmonic Warp Jammer
THATS IT
Whoever drew up a loot table with a named rat like that having even the slightest chance to drop the EXACT SAME RANDOM CRAP i get from "normal" belt rats... WHAT a F!@#$%^ waste of time... I actually went 200m IN the HOLE from such a high profile expedition
OH ya.. AND dont bother blowing up all the structures ther..they dont drop squat... I wasted another hour in futility doing that.. In complete shock and utter disbelief that I got such a shi^%y drop or that some moroon programmer put that S@#$ in the loot table...or that at least ONE "decent faction mod" drops!
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Alexa Violet
Amarr Zoners
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Posted - 2008.01.25 14:47:00 -
[2]
If you were unlucky once, does that mean that everything is broken?
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Teimur Leng
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Posted - 2008.01.25 16:46:00 -
[3]
I got a 1 run Dread Guristas Control Tower BPC (large) from a 6 mil rat in the first stage of an escalation. The 2nd stage yieleded nothing and didnt escalate further.
The drops are based on chance and luck and I believe that keeps the prices for such drops high as well, increasing the chance will have an adverse effect on the prices and probably not be worth it for dedicated explorers. Just Look at what happened with the increase drop rate of Encryption Method skillbooks...
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.01.25 16:50:00 -
[4]
IMO, only certain aspects of exploration need work. For example, mag sites are terrible. The hi sec mag sites give you less than the probes required to find them.
Certain unknown sites also seem to be buggy. Then of course, the infamous 'leaking casks' site.
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Teimur Leng
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Posted - 2008.01.25 16:54:00 -
[5]
Are mag sites worth much even in 0.0 ? I did one and never bothered doing another again..i got two bpc's for t2 rigs (worth basically nothing) and a bunch of t1 salvage.
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pandymen
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.25 17:09:00 -
[6]
0.0 mag sites are what make t2 rigs possible to build. I've seen a few where you get 50-100 pieces of several types of t2 salvage. Quite lucrative for that particular site at least.
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Teimur Leng
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Posted - 2008.01.25 17:12:00 -
[7]
Ah, i was under the impression most t2 salvage was from salvaging t2 ships blown up in combat. I`ll pay more attention to Mag sites from now as well.
Does the true security status of a system matter ? Meaning will -1.0 system give better sites (generally) than a -0.21 system?
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pandymen
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.25 18:30:00 -
[8]
Not sure about true sec status and the sites it has...but I am inclined to say it has no effect at all. Alot of these sites spawn/respawn in the same constellation...and I don't think they pay attention to true sec.
And also, alot of the salvage may come from blown up ships...but honestly, alot of fast moving gangs that gank t2 ships blow up the wreck so that the person they blew up can't come back and salvage it.
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Chronnick Bladerunner
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Posted - 2008.01.25 18:43:00 -
[9]
"If you were unlucky once, does that mean that everything is broken?"
Umm Guess you missed my point.
ITS already RARE enough to even FIND the appropriate site to get the escalation, let alone actually trigger it!
THERE, is you should be "LUCKY" or "UNLUCKY".
WHEN a person finally DOES find a tough site..and battles thru the VERY DANGEROUS dungeon... it is ONLY LOGICAL to assume you get a just and fair reward for your long hard efforts....no different than when I mine long and hard.... targeting 'roids and moving ore for hours on end...you don't mine Bistot all day then go back to the station and refine it only to find all you got was handful of Tritanium.
I was soo PUMPED and excited that I frapsed the event...you can see my hands shaking as I try to manage the battle..I finally kill Jorun and eagerly tractor his wreck in to see my well earned spoils,,, It is easy to see my utter disbelief and shock as I continually mouse over the contents of the wreck...again and again... in the vain hope that I am seeing things,,,missing something,,,or something will pop up... but it doesn't.. and my heart sinks thru the floor as I come to the realization I just wasted the last 18 hours and a load of isk, I shut fraps off in disgust.
A single module of high end faction gear is not much to ask from such an expedition and named.
Why should one person get 2 High end faction modules from the same mob and I get all tech I?
If loot tables are "supposed to work" THAT "randomly", they may not be "broken" ..but then I would have to say that they are VERY seriously flawed. if a 17m bounty named rat has a even the slightest chance of dropping JUST tech I mods.... it is wrong.
NO I don't count 1000 rounds of faction ammo as a drop.
How many people outfit their Faction BS's, Dreads/ Carriers Motherships and Titans w/ all Tech I gear? Hmmmmm? Likewise a 17m rat wouldn't either.
It totally disheartened me.
AND while I'm on the loot table track..pretty senseless/ useless for say explosive dealing mobs dropping EM hardeners..
Please address these issues in the "Boost Patch"
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Mad Crafter
Green Men Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.01.25 19:09:00 -
[10]
You got unlucky. Doing exploration is a lot like invention... sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. But if you do it a lot you will come out ahead in the end.
As for your skills, I've been working with astrometrics pinpointing II, astrometric triangulation II for a long time with no issues finding most sites in under an hour.
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Chronnick Bladerunner
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Posted - 2008.01.25 19:43:00 -
[11]
AGAIN with the unlucky thing..
And AGAIN , if it is a Loot table for a high level named that drops crap...that is not a fair and rewarding game mechanic!
It actually is quite a a great deal of negative reinforcement NOT to bother wasting time on it...
SO its CCP's intention to keep things rare by dropping crappy loot AS well as discouraging people from doing it in the FIRST place because of the waste of time and isk., AGAIN LUCK should not be involved in loot drops in the sense that you have a chance to get crap from a high lvl mob!
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Lil Mule
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Posted - 2008.01.25 19:52:00 -
[12]
Ive been screwed in similar fashions more times than I can count with exploration. Once in a blue moon I get lucky, but I can certainly understand where you are coming from. I often feel the same way - if I put in 3-4 hours to scan down the site and to take it down, there should be enough loot in there to make it worth the 3-4 hours I spent, and frequently there isnt.
I can recall some 8/10 plexes Ive done which took 1-2 hours to scan down and 3-6 hours to run it - finding a group, warping in and warping out etc, only to find in the end there is 20 million isk worth of loot, which is BS.
Im not sure what the answer is though - the only other option is to make the sites rarer. Personally Id rather find more sites whith a little loot than hardly ever find a site and have garunteed good loot.... -----------------------------------------------
People enjoy flying Amarr for the same reason they like being tied up in leather, whipped and called names
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Siranus EXmortus
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Posted - 2008.01.25 19:54:00 -
[13]
No I totally agree, the high sec exploration is a joke. I must have explored 20-30 sites and the highlights were a 7th tier overseer worth about 1 mill and 1 jaspet asteroid. Magnometric are unbelievable considering the skills to open them and the time to find them. Had 1 worth while DED and 1 expedition and that dropped nothing I couldnt have gotten off a mission which I wouldnt have to of probed for and would of gotten paid for at the end.
Exploration in highsec anyways is useless.
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Minie Driver
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Posted - 2008.01.25 20:06:00 -
[14]
According to that exploration devblog long time ago
Highsec unknowns yield 1/10 - 4/10 sites. LowSec unknowns yield 4/10 - 6/10 sites. 0.0 unknowns yield 6/10 - 10/10 sites
Regions with 7/10+ complexes in them before they went exploration only have higher chance of those 7/10+'s spawning in them.
This means in highsec the max ded plex you'd get is 4/10 which can sometimes yield OK rewards but not always....
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.01.25 20:07:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 25/01/2008 20:12:54
Originally by: Chronnick Bladerunner Edited by: Chronnick Bladerunner on 25/01/2008 19:45:06 To any aspiring probers... The general info when starting is all you need are astometrics IV, astrometrics pinpointing III, astrometric triangulation III and signal acquisition III. In practice you will spend HOURS if not days in a futile attempt to find an unknown.. while someone with lvl IV or V in previous mentioned skills will be able to find it within a few mins to an hour.
Seems a bit off considering theres only a 10% diff between lvl III and lvl V in scan strength and deviation... 10 % in each of those should NOT mean 10000% increase in time spent to find something
To any aspiring probers...the above quote in the OP is completely baseless.
There is a huge difference between the earning ability of an experienced Explorer and one who is not, but that is because of knowledge of the mechanics, mastery of the techniques, thorough preparation, better resources, and good support skills or teamwork opening up more lucrative areas of space. Not L5 in a few exploration skills.
edit: The other stuff about loot tables I sort of agree with and sort of don't. Mostly I like the "lottery" aspect of Exploration, but I wouldn't object to some of the extreme low-end or non rewards to be eliminated.
However, I would suggest that people who'd better enjoy a system of very consistent and predictable rewards should look to other professions, and leave Exploration to those of us who do like it. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
pandymen
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.25 20:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Chronnick Bladerunner Edited by: Chronnick Bladerunner on 25/01/2008 19:50:59 AGAIN with the unlucky thing..
And AGAIN , if it is a Loot table for a high level named that drops crap...that is not a fair and rewarding game mechanic!
It actually is quite a a great deal of negative reinforcement NOT to bother wasting time on it...
SO its CCP's intention to keep things rare by dropping crappy loot AS well as discouraging people from doing it in the FIRST place because of the waste of time and isk., AGAIN LUCK should not be involved in loot drops in the sense that you have a chance to get ONLY "crap" from a high lvl mob! COME ON! ANOTHER person gets TWO FACTION drops from the SAME MOB!!! And I GET NORMAL JUNK? HOW is that a fair and balanced game mechanic? I do the same work the same battle and get crap. A SINGLE MODULE...JUST ONE WOULD'VE BEEN NICE FOR ALL THE TIME AND EFFORT I SPENT AS WELL AS THE RARITY OF THE SITE/ SPAWN. CAN YOU TELL IM STILL ****ED?
Then don't explore. No one is forcing you to, and in fact, if there are fewer explorers, then I have more stuff to find for myself.
Simply put, you cannot expect to get a good faction drop from every faction rat/overseer. I have killed many many faction rats in belts and deadspaces only to get 1k of ammo and a tag...usually I don't even get the ammo. It is just a fact of life.
This is the entire reason that the faction mods are so pricey. If they were so easy to get and you got them from every faction rat, they would be worth alot less since they would be so much more common. The way it is, you sometimes get it, you sometimes don't. Try doing more than one or two sites and you may change your mind.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.01.25 21:45:00 -
[17]
Quote: Mostly I like the "lottery" aspect of Exploration, but I wouldn't object to some of the extreme low-end or non rewards to be eliminated.
Yeah. It's not like I want to hit the jackpot every time. I'm even fine with making less on a nite spent exploring than I would doing some other activity, as long as some other evening I strike it rich and balance it out.
But sites that give you nothing, not even the crappiest of faction drops, are rather depressing. And then of course, there's the hi sec base 1 mag site, where you spend more in probes than you receive in salvage :p
Overall it's pretty good, but some specific sites need reworking and it would be nice to walk away with at least some trinket for your troubles.
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Chronnick Bladerunner
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Posted - 2008.01.26 01:07:00 -
[18]
EXACTLY!
THATS all I would like.. Some...thing of even moderate value! something to perhaps make me want to go probe out another...somethig that perhaps even lets me BREAK EVEN!
AGAIN WHY should someone running SAME plex get 2 high end Faction mods and I get ZERO?
In the same thought is that not why CCP implemented Invention...to remove monopoly and game mechanic "unfairness" on tech II BPO's?
WELL it is very unfair to have someone get a ****load of loot and myself get none from SAME SITE and SAME MOB..
AGAIN it already like winning the lottery to actually FIND the site.. LET ALONE have it escalate!
And to the lame morons who have nothing better to say but "You cant suck it up quit", you obviously have much more masochistic tendencies than I.
I'm totally turned off probing out sites now...ESPECIALLY after hearing that others are getting shafted regularly' Exporation= masochists club There MORE for you to find!
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Black Jumper
Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.01.26 01:23:00 -
[19]
Exploration is fine as it is even though being really frustrating.
Mag site may need a boost as they 99.99% of the time give T1 salvage which is good but more variety would be welcome. Radar are ok. Gravimetric are, well things for miners. Ladar are well, pretty in the space.
Unknown are well ... various : easy and boring, overdangerous and fun. I share the same frustration regarding the question of MEGA TANKED structures which are in my views a totally stupid design (we were once 1 carrier and 2 full DPS BS to shoot a structure without getting the shield below 30% ...).
Escalation mechanism should just be hiher for final steps in my views (sooo frustrating when you do 3 sites to get a deadend ... thhe first escalation is already pretty rare).
But Loot is well, i'd say equilibrated rather than fine for me even if it can be really frustrating sometimes (Domination armor explosive hardener at the end of a 7/10 Yay !)
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Chronnick Bladerunner
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Posted - 2008.01.26 01:28:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Chronnick Bladerunner on 26/01/2008 01:29:46
"To any aspiring probers...the above quote in the OP is completely baseless.
There is a huge difference between the earning ability of an experienced Explorer and one who is not, but that is because of knowledge of the mechanics, mastery of the techniques, thorough preparation, better resources, and good support skills or teamwork opening up more lucrative areas of space. Not L5 in a few exploration skills."
The above quote contains false and misleading information...because it IS NOT entirely BASELESS! IT IS FROM PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE!
My corpy WITH lvl V skills CAN and HAS found the sites I cant more times than once, WAYY faster (within minutes of entering system after Ive spent hours), therefore having the potential to run more or eschew more sites..BECAUSE he has better skills. If you're try to say someone with low skills has same earning potential, as long as they prepare etc etc..as someone with all LVL V skills, well thats just a very stupid statement.
"knowledge of mechanics "- I HAVE. It doesn't take 3 years in university to read all the guides on probing.
" Mastery of techniques"- ROFLMAO! You're making it sound like rocket science or brain surgery! it is simple geometry.
YES I know WHICH probes to place.. YES I know WHERE to place them.. YES make a zillion BM.s to get precise and complete coverage as possible... It is SIMPLE geometry to cover planets! YES I know when to switch to smaller range probes.
"Thorough preparation"- LOL yep I DO load MAG probes if I want to find a Mag site. Did you add that just for more verbal filler?
"better resources"- What? you have a sister scan probe launcher fitted to a helios with grav rigs and implants too? Or do you have fairy exploration site finder you consult with?
Alot of people seem to think that because someone is complaining about something that they can have no idea what they are doing.. I can ASSURE you I know what I am doing..
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Ma Eies
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Posted - 2008.01.26 03:24:00 -
[21]
This is mainly aimed at the OP, but most new explorers can take something from it
If you are exploring because of the isk you can make from it, you probably picked the wrong profession, market trading can be better, mining and mission running are probably better too.
Exploration can be very profitable, but isn't and shouldn't always be profitable
The one concession i'd agree to would be if you got overseer effects like most of the old DED plexes gave out. Dual effect, lets you know you killed the overseer, and you got something for it if you didn't get deadspace swag
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arbalesttom
Caldari Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.26 11:14:00 -
[22]
Can this whinage stop please? Its simple as this: Every unknown plex CAN drom something valuable, with the better ones having a chance to drop something more valualbe, NOT MORE OFTEN. If this wasnt the case, i probably would have been 10x as rich as i am right now, but thats not the case. Every plex works like this. What would happen if every 'better' plex dropped a bunch of faction stuff?
Its chance based, learn to deal with it, and if you dont like this, go mine and your 100% sure you get the stuff that you expect to get...so dont whine about gamemechanics that SHOULD be clear to you. Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR! |
Chronnick Bladerunner
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Posted - 2008.01.26 12:21:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Chronnick Bladerunner on 26/01/2008 12:23:33
CAN YOUR UNHELPFUL forum posts like uber idiot above STOP please?
TO ALL THE UNHELPFUL MORONS WHO CALL THIS OR ANY OTHER COMPLAINT POST, WHINING, STFU AND GFYS,
ARE YOU ALL AWARE A GAME "BOOST PATCH" WILL BE DEPLOYED AT SOME UNDISCLOSED FUTURE DATE?
GAME BALANCE/MECHANICS/LOOT TABLES ARE AN IMPORTANT ISSUE.
HOW DO YOU THINK CHANGES FOR THE BETTER GET MADE?
DO YOU THINK THAT GAME MECHANICS/LOOT TABLES ARE SET IN "ADAMANTINE"???
WOULD YOU RATHER I DUMP ANOTHER PETITION ON WHAT I AM SURE IS ALREADY A PILE O PETITIONS THE GM"S HAVE TO DEAL WITH!
SO if you can't say something actually helpful just STFU.... I don't know why you would even waste your time in replying to a post if you don't give a ****... it just blatantly shows you have less brains and more mouth.
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Ma Eies
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Posted - 2008.01.26 12:45:00 -
[24]
LOL, the over use of caps really makes you seem more unreasonable.
The reason we reply to this post is because we do care, we don't want the loot tables to be "fixed" if it dropped something good every time it wouldn't be nearly as exciting to get the good stuff
First it will be it needs to drop loot every time, next it'll be it needs to escalate every time, the old static plexes did not drop loot every time, why should the exploration sites, which are a bit easier to get to, be more profitable. Before anyone flames, exploration is much more accessible than the old (camped) static plexes.
and we are trying to be helpful in informing people that exploration isn't a gold mine that everyone gets rich from, more like a creek you pan for gold, lots of sifting and you might find a nugget, but you have to sort through all the sand and rocks first.
I explore to find the sites, have some fun clearing them, and not worry about the grind, the team work needed (or recommended at least) for some of the more difficult sites is refreshing
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Chronnick Bladerunner
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Posted - 2008.01.26 13:12:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Chronnick Bladerunner on 26/01/2008 13:14:47 Thank you Ma.. your posts WERE actually a breath of fresh air..
AND I dont USUALLY use caps so often..Im just a lil bit more than my usual level of frustration ...
I assure you one of my previous post was directed at you, actually I was going to give a lil tip o' my hat to you in my previous RANT...but didn't wish to sound like I was including you in the morons group.
YOU KNOW..The people who hypocritically take the time effort and energy to post a WHINE about WHINERS IT'S HILARIOUS!
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Lrrp
Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2008.01.26 13:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Teimur Leng I got a 1 run Dread Guristas Control Tower BPC (large) from a 6 mil rat in the first stage of an escalation.
I got a 3 run shadow serp large tower bpc from a cosmic anomaly rat. Just goes to show with a little luck, nice things can happen.
To the OP...keep trying.
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Black Jumper
Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.01.26 15:24:00 -
[27]
Stop whining, stop exploring.
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Ahn Riane
Blue Star Surveying and Mapping Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.26 21:14:00 -
[28]
Not a good idea, to do exploration with that broken shift-lock û impatience attitude.
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Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2008.01.26 21:32:00 -
[29]
Exploration is good as it is. Make it too easy and EVEYRONE would do it. tbh if you die to *anything* in a hyperion with a logistics repairing you then you apparently forgot to fit the right resists lol. I've tanked mass expedition spawns with a guardian repping me in a tempest :P It's just like any of the regular faction spawns.. sometimes you get lucky, most of the time you get ammo.. :P _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it. |
Erik Amirault
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.27 08:25:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Erik Amirault on 27/01/2008 08:29:09 CCP doesn't want any activity in Eve to allow you to earn more than 50 million ISK an hour. Trading in empire they cannot really restrict but ratting and exploration (luck aside) average to about 40 million an hour give or take a few million. Exploration seems crappy and random because that is how they control prices and market fluctuations in this game and that is why PVE creativity in Eve is lower than most other MMORPGs.
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