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There's gold in those hills! {Mining suggestions}

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Len Mordseh Aristos Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.30 07:33:00 - [1] I love mining. I fell in love during the tutorial and haven't looked back. I'm the proud owner Black Lung, a well-equipped Hulk. I find quite often that the appeal doesn't transfer to my corp mates. They come online to shoot, not babysit a mining op. I think my suggestions could make things more interesting. Belts One of the things I really dig about Eve is how it feels so real. The current asteroid belt set up bugs me. That's just not how belts are - they aren't little pockets in space, they are literal belts, around stars and planets. I suggest a change from several small pockets to one large belt, spread around a star, maybe two belts for a large system. "Well, that doesn't really help our lag problem." You're right, that alone won't change it. Keep reading. Instead of the static model used to render the asteroid belts now, change it to instances like the missions are. You'll have to use scanners to find the best 'roids, which opens up a new engaging opportunity. Prospecting You know that astrogeology skill that is basically for Exhumer pilots? Let's put it to a different use: Making claims Using the probes already available in game, a Prospector would launch several covering a chosen arc of the belt. The probes would return the types of ore that they discover in that area. The Prospector would keep sending out probes until they get the location of the type of ore that they are prospecting and get the area narrowed down enough that they feel comfortable staking a claim. Most of the time, the probes will discover ores that are common to a system of that security, but occasionally, one might discover higher quality ores in low quantities (why shouldn't crokite develop in 0.8 systems, anyway?) The probes would tell you what they find, but not how much of it Before a Prospector heads to the location, they must stake a claim with a claiming probe. (Sticking their flag in) That claim is made official by paying a filing fee to the faction that owns that system (money drain), because it is not "finders-keepers". Factions own the belts within their systems, not random Joe Pod Pilot. In this way, the roid pocket is not spawned until the probe is registered. (Major bandwidth saver and easy way to eliminate the need to track each asteroid, even when no one is looking) Claim Jumpers Now, to make things more interesting for those fighter jocks guarding the miners. The registration of the claim probe gives you legal claim, just like the Old West. Depending on the fee paid, the probe sets a time in the area for how long the pocket belongs to you. This doesn't mean exclusivity - just like any other part of Eve, you're welcome to break the law. In high sec, the claim jumpers can't shoot at the rightful owner unless he shoots first. Some of these claim jumpers will be rats, in the form of traditional mining ops, that become tougher/more advanced as the value of the ore in the pocket goes up. This opens up the opportunity for rare ores in high security, without endangering the economy too much. Misc. Basically renders macro mining null and void, as there will be a lot more effort involved in finding the right roids. Players could also purchase coordinates for standard asteroids from the resident Faction, so that it would be less of a headache if all you wanted to do was, say, mine Veldspar. Note: These are my ideas after reading the blog post - fellow pilots, feel free to reply with your ideas and/or critiques. - Len out I'm a [url=http://www.feministhousewives.com]Feminist Housewife[/url].
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.01.30 07:53:00 - [2] I like it. I'd like to see the rocks be huge, too. So instead of spawning the little gravel of high-ends you see in belts, just have a mining site contain a half-dozen huge roids and a bunch of dust clouds, unminable rock furniture and maybe some ice. Have them be huge, like 0.0 belts or ice fields are, and we'd be in business. The claim-jumping dynamic you describe is neat, too. I'd worry that it would be easier in low- and null-sec space to find miners and kill them than to find the rocks in the first place, which would pretty much kill mining outside of high-sec or safe 0.0. Crusades: Security Status
NightKhaos Gallente Khaos Wielders	Posted - 2008.01.30 09:32:00 - [3] Ahh but it would give people incentives to defend their mining ships in low sec and 0.0 space. Something which should be done now if it isn't already. CPU: Intel Core2 T5500 @ 1.66 RAM: 1024 GPU: nVidia GeForce Go 7300 GPU Drivers: 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.19 Sound Card: HDA Intel Sound Card Driver: ALSA Version 1.0.14 Kernel: 2.6.23-gentoo-r3
Len Mordseh Aristos Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.30 17:46:00 - [4] Reggie - I'm glad you like the idea. Quote: The claim-jumping dynamic you describe is neat, too. I'd worry that it would be easier in low- and null-sec space to find miners and kill them than to find the rocks in the first place, which would pretty much kill mining outside of high-sec or safe 0.0. I can see your point. However, the asteroids in low sec could still be better, on average, than the asteroids in high sec. This would make it easier to find that tasty nugget out in low sec. NightKhaos - I also hope that it will make hanging out with a mining op more engaging for the defenders/guards, so that they won't feel like they are wasting valuable game time. Something to add - I think the claim-jumping rats should also mine. If you can't get rid of them fast enough, they might just get away with the valuable ore you found. Obviously, this would only need to happen with high value and low quantity ores. - Len out
Kojima Asuka Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2008.01.30 18:10:00 - [5] I think this is a really good idea, especially since now asteroid belts will be massive and set around planets, if thats what you intended. It would be cool to see a couple of mining teams working at different sections of a giant belt, all from different corps, all in their respective claimed territory. It would also make the mining system a bit more dependent. You wouldn't be able to log on, go mine for a little bit, then leave. You would have to file your claim, go out, and actually use the area you purchased. Would these claims only last a few days? Maybe 24 hours?
Sphit Kar	Posted - 2008.01.30 18:13:00 - [6] hey we thing alike. I'll shamelessly plug my own quote from my thread over there. Our line of thoughts kind of fit Quote: System wide asteroid belts. What it is Im talking is self-explanatory, I think. Im sure this has been already proposed many times over but Im sure I nailed it down alright. So there it goes. Mining in empire shall require a Mining License which grant you that much roids for that long. Upon payment you get a waypoint/bookmark you warp to. This guarantee worthy mining expeditions. A Mining License allow unlimited and unrestricted access to about a 10 kilometers wide arc for a day. Take note I said 10 KILOMETERS; unlike what we have which is like 200 meters pretending to be 50 kilometers. Depleted asteroids respawn right away somewhere random around the system's belt(s) Mining without a license as well as outside your licenced boundaries make the ore illegal, a contraband, subject to police confiscation. Perhaps even a security rating hit. Macro miners are not quite an issue anymore as they cannot possibly wipe clean a belt within the first hours; too much to mine. System wide belts have well enough rocks for many weeks of non-stop mining by a huge fleet of Hulks, anyway. On top of that, they respawn! Second, licenses purchased leave traces GMs can use to track back abusers if need be. Thoughts?
Hitme Harder HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2008.01.30 18:25:00 - [7] I didn't read your thread before creating a thread about Signature Jamming, but its very similar to your Claim-Jumper idea, and can be applied to all of exploration. What do you think about simply jamming the deadspace signature of a hidden asteroid? Would give you adequate claim within reason. People could still scan out your ship and steal your ore from your can and you could shoot them for that. I don't know about having concord say its a crime to mine an asteroid because somebody else found it first, though. AREN'T THEY ADORABLE?
Len Mordseh Aristos Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.30 20:17:00 - [8] Edited by: Len Mordseh on 30/01/2008 20:19:56 Hitme - I like your sig jamming idea and I do think it would fit very well with my ideas. Also, in my plan, you wouldn't own the roids - you'd own a very small part of the belt for a specific amount of time. The respective faction would still own the roids. ETA: Claim jumping would be just like can theft. Concord wouldn't show up unless the thief opened fire first. Otherwise, the claim owner would be able to open fire if they wanted, but it wouldn't be required. - Len out
Rane Connor	Posted - 2008.01.30 22:25:00 - [9] I would really like to see more diversity in the ore available in all belts. I find it completey unrealistic that it's impossible to find any other type of ore than the norm. Ok, i can see the valid arguement that exploration is possible to get better ore in higher sec systems, but it's never better than those 3 medium valued ores J, H, and H. Its a game for G-sakes, let someone have a nut once in awhile and make them happy. I personally live in 0.0 and find it hard to believe there isn't even a small piece of rare rare ore floating around unless I'm in a particular system or region.
Darth Jurassic	Posted - 2008.01.31 00:43:00 - [10] That's cool! Really more interesting. But the yield amount should be increased, because even now ore mining is not as great as ice mining.
Ghostwarden	Posted - 2008.01.31 02:34:00 - [11] I like the idea but just a few questions if I may... What happens when the timer runs out? Do the roids just disapear? If you keep mining does this criminally flag you bringing concord down on your head or do you just get fined. Can you reup your claim while your mining? Ghost
Len Mordseh Aristos Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.31 05:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Ghostwarden I like the idea but just a few questions if I may... What happens when the timer runs out? Do the roids just disapear? If you keep mining does this criminally flag you bringing concord down on your head or do you just get fined. Can you reup your claim while your mining? Ghost I like your idea. Say you pay for an hour's worth of claim - this would set a timer (much like the aggression timer) for the legality of your mining op. If you allow the claim to expire, someone else could make a legal claim to the spot. Of course, you could pay for more time before the timer is up. After, say, 10 minutes of mining without a claim, you start getting fined. What do you think? - Len out
Darth Jurassic	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:01:00 - [13] Originally by: Len Mordseh I like your idea. Say you pay for an hour's worth of claim - this would set a timer (much like the aggression timer) for the legality of your mining op. If you allow the claim to expire, someone else could make a legal claim to the spot. Of course, you could pay for more time before the timer is up. After, say, 10 minutes of mining without a claim, you start getting fined. What do you think? - Len out And what it there could be a claim queue. The claim may be extended only if noone else stays in queue for this field. Otherwise the claim time finishes, another fleet arrives, ant at the moment of right change they can receive shoot right at naughty miners.
Riame	Posted - 2008.01.31 19:02:00 - [14] I really dig the idea of having myriad ore types in each rock, with lower sec having higher concentrations of better ore. I also like the idea of no longer being able to tell outright what a rock is without firing a probe or something at it (make ore scanners useful!). What I HATE is the idea of claim. Space is HUGE. How can you lay claim to some rocks?
Darth Jurassic	Posted - 2008.02.01 00:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Riame I really dig the idea of having myriad ore types in each rock, with lower sec having higher concentrations of better ore. I also like the idea of no longer being able to tell outright what a rock is without firing a probe or something at it (make ore scanners useful!). What I HATE is the idea of claim. Space is HUGE. How can you lay claim to some rocks? If I understand it right, you are telling to make universal roid, and laser is going to deliver som Veldspar, some Scordide, some Plagioclase, some Omber and so on. But what if I don't want to mine them all, I need only some one ore type? Today I can choose it by targeting. How will I choose it after proposed modification?
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2008.02.01 03:19:00 - [16] Crystals could maybe adjust distribution as well as yield? Crusades: Security Status
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.02.01 05:10:00 - [17] The major problem with instancing belts is ratting. Missions take a while to complete , the mission runner is usually focused on difficult rooms or strained and not really paying attention to local threats anymore. Miners in deadspace... well , they have to sit there for hours on end , sitting ducks. But ratters get their ISK reward instantly (save the rat loot or salvage) with zero commitment to their job. Explorers have to use specialized probes for a while to get a result , miners typically need a hauler to make it worthwhile (which is ruined when someone shows up) and mission runners need to complete their mission to not lose standings. Ratters do not , by the time you could probe them they already docked up / logged off / sit cloaked in a safespot and wait for you to leave. Zero risk income as long as they don't leave the system. Similar to current 0.0 ratting , only much worse. Rats are supposed to spawn at fixed locations , but at the same time they make mining a little harder. Even the best thought out changes can wreck Eve's remaining balance due to such details. Of course , you could remove ratting completely (make rats not worth shooting outside missions / complexes if you aren't mining) but a lot of people wouldn't be pleased. Originally by: ivan draco we didnt want your post anyway
Darth Jurassic	Posted - 2008.02.01 10:30:00 - [18] Originally by: Stakhanov The major problem with instancing belts is ratting. Missions take a while to complete , the mission runner is usually focused on difficult rooms or strained and not really paying attention to local threats anymore. Miners in deadspace... well , they have to sit there for hours on end , sitting ducks. But ratters get their ISK reward instantly (save the rat loot or salvage) with zero commitment to their job. Explorers have to use specialized probes for a while to get a result , miners typically need a hauler to make it worthwhile (which is ruined when someone shows up) and mission runners need to complete their mission to not lose standings. Ratters do not , by the time you could probe them they already docked up / logged off / sit cloaked in a safespot and wait for you to leave. Zero risk income as long as they don't leave the system. Similar to current 0.0 ratting , only much worse. Rats are supposed to spawn at fixed locations , but at the same time they make mining a little harder. Even the best thought out changes can wreck Eve's remaining balance due to such details. Of course , you could remove ratting completely (make rats not worth shooting outside missions / complexes if you aren't mining) but a lot of people wouldn't be pleased. Let rat hunting be OK for nonclaimed locations. But when the location is claimed, rat hunter would begin flickering red and a mining fleed would might find something to get the hunter away. Anyway the claimer has a choice of PVP engagement.
Len Mordseh Aristos Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Riame I also like the idea of no longer being able to tell outright what a rock is without firing a probe or something at it (make ore scanners useful!). What I HATE is the idea of claim. Space is HUGE. How can you lay claim to some rocks? Yes, space is huge. The idea is that you would need to pay a claim fee to the ruling Faction of that part of space, just like the prospectors had to do in the USA's Old West. They control the system, so in theory, they also own its constituent parts. - Len out
Len Mordseh Aristos Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Stakhanov The major problem with instancing belts is ratting. Missions take a while to complete , the mission runner is usually focused on difficult rooms or strained and not really paying attention to local threats anymore. Miners in deadspace... well , they have to sit there for hours on end , sitting ducks. But ratters get their ISK reward instantly (save the rat loot or salvage) with zero commitment to their job. Explorers have to use specialized probes for a while to get a result , miners typically need a hauler to make it worthwhile (which is ruined when someone shows up) and mission runners need to complete their mission to not lose standings. Ratters do not , by the time you could probe them they already docked up / logged off / sit cloaked in a safespot and wait for you to leave. Zero risk income as long as they don't leave the system. Similar to current 0.0 ratting , only much worse. Rats are supposed to spawn at fixed locations , but at the same time they make mining a little harder. Even the best thought out changes can wreck Eve's remaining balance due to such details. Of course , you could remove ratting completely (make rats not worth shooting outside missions / complexes if you aren't mining) but a lot of people wouldn't be pleased. As a miner, I hadn't really considered the rats for mission alternatives part of the deal. As I said in the original post, rat mining groups would come to claimed positions. So, a ratter could launch one probe and lay a claim to a random spot, which would bring the rat mining parties. What do you think of that? - Len out
Magilla Cutty	Posted - 2008.02.04 05:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Riame What I HATE is the idea of claim. Space is HUGE. How can you lay claim to some rocks? 'Cuz, man, the roids belong to everyone. You can't own them, man, that's like, impossible. </end stoned hippie voice>
Auron Shadowbane Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2008.02.04 12:10:00 - [22] asteroids containing multiple ores is like double beating the hourse. the end product are pure, the ore's arent. that is all the "mixing" you need. What would be fun on the other hand is removing the type of asteroid from overview so you need to scan to know the type.
Erien Rand	Posted - 2008.02.04 14:53:00 - [23] I joined Eve with the idea of being a miner... I have since shied away from it to run missions due to much of what you are discussing. As a relatively new player all that I can add to your idea is that I LOVE IT!!!!! I would return to it full time again if your idea was implemented.
Winters Chill Amarr Legio Victrix New Eden Federation.	Posted - 2008.02.04 16:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Len Mordseh I love mining. You are SICK!
Tellacula	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:13:00 - [25] I definitely sign this
Len Mordseh Aristos Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.05 02:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Auron Shadowbane asteroids containing multiple ores is like double beating the hourse. the end product are pure, the ore's arent. that is all the "mixing" you need. What would be fun on the other hand is removing the type of asteroid from overview so you need to scan to know the type. I know others in this thread have suggested the above, but such was not my intent. I'd like leave roids as they are - veldspar gets you tritanium, it won't magically contain megacyte. What I wanted to randomize somewhat is the type of roid you find, as naturally occurring asteroids aren't going to care how secure their resident space is. I think it would be awesome to have a small, even tiny, chance of finding a rarer ore in higher sec. - Len out
Len Mordseh Aristos Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.23 04:21:00 - [27] I haven't heard from any devs - what do you think of this idea? - Len out

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