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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
rgreat
Gallente OEG Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.03 13:34:00 -
[751]
Edited by: rgreat on 03/02/2008 13:44:11
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer So blasters can do even more stupid damage? I think not.
Effective range = 5 km or less. No point to use 'long range' t2 ammo for blasters as it plain suck. And not like blasters have very good tracking up in close.
Amarr have it very nice with optimal for 'close range' medim lasers of like 30km with t2 ammo. I bet new Zealots will do alot more damage in gangs compared to Deimoses. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.03 13:44:00 -
[752]
Originally by: rgreat
No point to use 'long range' t2 ammo for blasters. Not much of a difference.
This is not true. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.03 13:46:00 -
[753]
Originally by: rgreat
How about Hybrid damage boost then?
Since the damage ratio between hybrids and lasers needs to be preserved to ensure balance that is absolutely necessary. Just like the shield resist nerfs.
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
rgreat
Gallente OEG Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.03 13:48:00 -
[754]
Edited by: rgreat on 03/02/2008 13:54:33
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: rgreat
No point to use 'long range' t2 ammo for blasters. Not much of a difference.
This is not true.
Null M ammo - 25% range bonus (opt+fallof). (effective range 5 km -> 10 km compared to Antimatter ammo) Scorch M Cristals - 50% range bonus (optimal). (effective range 10 km -> 30+ km compared to Multifreq Cristals)
10 km for Null blasters = still point blank 'web' range, only with less damage and tracking compared to AM. No use for it. Zealot user with Scorch can fire Pulses earlier, and from 'safe' range. Deimos pilot with null ammo - can't. Think again. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
rgreat
Gallente OEG Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.03 13:59:00 -
[755]
Edited by: rgreat on 03/02/2008 14:09:38
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Im pretty sure a blaster pilot will tell you that he uses long range blaster ammo. Its quite common...
Common failures.
In fact ALL T2 Blaster ammo is useless. Null have crap damage and range. Void have crap traking and terrible cap usage.
Simple and faction AntiMatter is the only one ammo type used in blasters. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.03 14:09:00 -
[756]
Edited by: Ogul on 03/02/2008 14:09:06
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Ogul
Since the damage ratio between hybrids and lasers needs to be preserved to ensure balance that is absolutely necessary. Just like the shield resist nerfs.
This is where youre wrong. The only ratio that needs preserving is damage/range ratio. Have they changed range on hybrids? No. Will they change their damage? No.
It was a perfectly fine reason for nerfing shield resists. So why not apply it to turret damage?
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
rgreat
Gallente OEG Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.03 14:14:00 -
[757]
Edited by: rgreat on 03/02/2008 14:15:28 As for damage/range argument.
Damage of all weapons except hybrids was increased due to reduced base resistances on EM/EXP.
You suggest to nerf lasers, missiles and projectiles?
It better boost hybrids only then to nerf all other weapons. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.03 14:56:00 -
[758]
Originally by: rgreat Edited by: rgreat on 03/02/2008 14:25:40 As for 'preserve damage/range' argument.
Damage of all weapons except hybrids was increased due to reduced base resistances on EM/EXP.
Youre wrong. Now that there is less EM and EX on armor resp. shields people will try to cover that up instead of sticking another omni resist (wich would bring thermal and kinetic resists up) resulting in hybrids actually getting a small dmg boost technically. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
rgreat
Gallente OEG Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.03 15:07:00 -
[759]
Edited by: rgreat on 03/02/2008 15:11:23
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Youre wrong. Now that there is less EM and EX on armor resp. shields people will try to cover that up instead of sticking another omni resist (wich would bring thermal and kinetic resists up) resulting in hybrids actually getting a small dmg boost technically.
You have a point here, but it is only possible on some configurations.
I dont think people will change tank setups alot just becouse of that. Damage controls and EAMN will still be preferred mod types in armor tanks. Not so sure about shield tanks, as im not useing ones. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Cpt Abestos
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:44:00 -
[760]
Why not just boost lasers and the amarr ships that are bad and leave resists alone?
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:45:00 -
[761]
Originally by: Cpt Abestos Why not just boost lasers and the amarr ships that are bad and leave resists alone?
Because that would lasers the bane of non-tanked, semi-tanked and shield tanked ships. This was a better way to balance it. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
Jerusalem Eve
Amarr Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.02.03 20:04:00 -
[762]
Now that I had some time to absorb the changes to some of the ships and TDs, maybe hold off on mucking with resists. There are still a lot of things being changed and I think your changing too many variables at once.
Just my .02 ISK
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2008.02.03 20:05:00 -
[763]
so about the -10% em res on armour and -10% expl on shield..
well i see this as a caldari nerf (like they arn't nerfed enough in the pvp area), since there are much more pvp'ers using expl damage type then em type, but even if they doesn't it is still a caldari pvp nerf since the shield tankers will not only have lower resist but they have a 0 em resist which will now become more popular...
so basically i think you guys need to rework your idea or do something about the caldari pvp aspect.
just a fast thought... (nice to see that you finally look on amarr) I declare war on stupidity |
Aidonis Heideran
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Posted - 2008.02.03 21:19:00 -
[764]
Actually there should be no boost to blasters, because Kin/Therm are best damage types in game (in general) anyways.
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Julius Romanus
Amarr Blood Corsair's Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.02.03 21:59:00 -
[765]
Originally by: Buyerr so about the -10% em res on armour and -10% expl on shield..
well i see this as a caldari nerf (like they arn't nerfed enough in the pvp area), since there are much more pvp'ers using expl damage type then em type, but even if they doesn't it is still a caldari pvp nerf since the shield tankers will not only have lower resist but they have a 0 em resist which will now become more popular...
so basically i think you guys need to rework your idea or do something about the caldari pvp aspect.
just a fast thought... (nice to see that you finally look on amarr)
They did, go look at your moa eagle ferox blackbird rook falcon kitsune and torp raven
Because in the last few patches ALL have recieved a boost in pvp.
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scorp3
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Posted - 2008.02.03 22:42:00 -
[766]
If your gonna nerf the explosive resists on caldari ships why dont you add to our em.....Personaly I hate nerfs
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Sky Marshal
Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.02.03 23:06:00 -
[767]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 03/02/2008 23:12:22
Originally by: Julius Romanus They did, go look at your moa eagle ferox blackbird rook falcon kitsune and torp raven
Because in the last few patches ALL have recieved a boost in pvp.
Well... I never see someone use a Ferox, as the Drake is more efficient.
Blackbird, Kitsune, Rook & Falcon are always primary so not very usable, this depend of the situation. Moa... If you still use cruisers, yes it can be good, if not, forget it.
Torp Raven is indeed a boost, and I really appreciate this... for ratting. For PVP I don't know, never have the opportunity to test.
There is the Eagle, who received a nerf when tracking computers was nerfed.
Actually for PVP I only use Drake and Cerberus, and a Rokh for fleet battle. Few times a Kestrel, and I pray every day that CCP will never nerf them (it was useless). I have a Torp Raven for BS gang but he never leave the station for the moment. _______
16/20 Dragon : ½ Great Game + 14/20 Revelations : ½ Desyncs... + 11/20 Trinity : ½ BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs + 10/20 v1.1 : ½ [...] + EXP shield nerf +
CCP, you are tiring. |
Aidonis Heideran
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Posted - 2008.02.03 23:13:00 -
[768]
Quote: If your gonna nerf the explosive resists on caldari ships why dont you add to our em.....Personaly I hate nerfs
Read the blog. ALL ships have EM-Armour and EX-Shield nerfs, not just caldari. So, it balances out. (plus it's not an EM-shield nerf, which would be so ridiculous I couldn't begin to describe it)
And nerfs happen. Games need balance, boosting everyone until everyone is the same 500 billion kilometer tallness is not an option.
Quote: Well... I never see someone use a Ferox, as the Drake is more efficient.
I have. Ferox is still decent. Prophecy for Amarr on the other hand (which hasn't been addressed in the dev blog) is far more crappy.
Quote: Blackbird, Kitsune, Rook & Falcon are always primary so not very usable. Moa... If you still use cruisers, yes it can be good, if not, forget it.
Why wouldn't you use cruisers? Occasionally throw these medium sized suckers out. They're cheap, and they aren't total garbage. And just the fact that BB/Kits/Rook/Falc are always prim doesn't matter at all. In fact, all that says is they are REALLY good.
Quote: Torp Raven is indeed a boost, and I really appreciate this... for ratting. For PVP I don't know, never have the opportunity to test.
Okay, I'll give you that.
Quote: There is the Eagle, who received a nerf when tracking computers was nerfed so...
But got an extra turret. And don't forget tracking computer is a MODULE. therefore it affects ANYONE WHO USES IT.
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Sky Marshal
Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.02.04 00:16:00 -
[769]
Quote: I have. Ferox is still decent.
Well, it wasn't expected, as I think the ferox more fragile and do less DPS than a Drake, so useless Maybe I will take a look with the new changes.
Quote: In fact, all that says is they are REALLY good.
Yes, they are dangerous, really dangerous, I admit it and I don't say that they are worthless, but not easily usable as they are killed fastly This kind of ship separate people who like use them and those who like survive more than a minut ^^
I never said the contrary for tracking computers :) but this didn't help the Eagle, whose standard fitting included 2 of them. _______
16/20 Dragon : ½ Great Game + 14/20 Revelations : ½ Desyncs... + 11/20 Trinity : ½ BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs + 10/20 v1.1 : ½ [...] + EXP shield nerf +
CCP, you are tiring. |
Aidonis Heideran
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Posted - 2008.02.04 00:27:00 -
[770]
=P fear not Caldarians, this is a mainly Amarr oriented series of updates. the caldari/gallente ship-fixes are purely for balance.
So your time may yet come!
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Summersnow
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Posted - 2008.02.04 06:39:00 -
[771]
From Zuluparks BLOG
The solution we've been looking at to fix this is quite simple and straight forward. Remove 10% off the EM resistance on all Tech 1 ships and re-calculate the racial bonuses for the Tech 2 ships from there. To maintain a correct ratio between shield tanking and armor tanking we'd also remove 10% from the explosive resistances on shields. Raven base resistances
Note the emphasis I placed, armor vs shield ratio must be maintained
Now look at the example for a standard T1 ship. - Before changes
Shields EM - 0%, Exp - 60%, Kin - 40%, Therm - 20% = 120 resist Armor EM - 60%, Exp - 10%, Kin - 25%, Therm - 45% = 140 resist
ratio = 1.1666. i.e. armor gets a built in overall 16% resist bonus
- After changes
Shields EM - 0%, Exp - 50%, Kin - 40%, Therm - 20% = 110 resist Armor EM - 50%, Exp - 10%, Kin - 25%, Therm - 45% = 130 resist
ratio = 1.1818. i.e. armor gets a built in overall 18% resist bonus, a 2% INCREASE in ratio.
hardly what I'd call maintaining the correct ratio
maintaining the correct ration would be 120/140 = .8571428 x 130 = 111.42856, which rounded off = a new shield explosive resist of 51.4%, not 50%
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang Mashen T'plak
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Posted - 2008.02.04 09:24:00 -
[772]
The "EM Problem" of amarr is a falacy! THere is a very good post about this in SH, where a guy made a very good work analysing the time an armageddon, MEgathron and tempest with common setups take to kill a MEgathron with also a common setup (with EANM and DC). Surprisingly the Armageddon was almost tied with the megathron(was less than 5% time difference) and tempest quite behind them.
THe no resist on shields buffer and the base high DPS make laser work very well. Only exeption are extreme cases or exageration like 3 EANM II and DC or 2 EANM and DC on a typhoon.
CCP shoudl just have made a boost to active hardeners. And if they wanted to reduce EM resists, then 5% woudl be more than enough (for a total of 12.5% of real reduction in resistance)
25% is ridiculows. I never ever saw any ship in eve ever gets such a massive boost in damage.
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SephiriotH
REUNI0N Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.04 10:01:00 -
[773]
Edited by: SephiriotH on 04/02/2008 10:02:14 lol... for another time I'm asking myself, did devs EVER bothered to take a look into some major alliances killboards and figure out a top damagers ? they would be a damn siurprised too see that revelation dreadnoghts are far from being last ones while killing minmatar towers (the ones that supposed to have anti-amarr resistance) , also same for kiling capital ships. They might also discover that armageddon is a tremendous dmg dealer too. But nvm - lasers are too weak because we said so!
Another thing : **many playrs tank armor** Orly ? During all that time you finally discovered that electronic warfare need a medium slots , therefore shield tanks are not so popular ? And yes.. of course it's the reason to get the shield resistance to explosive 10% less , as it will increase laser dmg output and make shield tank EVEN MORE popular... And no, this doesnt affects minmatar EMP ammunition...
enough..gimme a break ...
Remember : With a bad word and good torpedo you are always hurting more then with a bad word alone. |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.04 10:50:00 -
[774]
Originally by: SephiriotH Edited by: SephiriotH on 04/02/2008 10:02:14 lol... for another time I'm asking myself, did devs EVER bothered to take a look into some major alliances killboards and figure out a top damagers ? they would be a damn siurprised too see that revelation dreadnoghts are far from being last ones while killing minmatar towers (the ones that supposed to have anti-amarr resistance) , also same for kiling capital ships. They might also discover that armageddon is a tremendous dmg dealer too. But nvm - lasers are too weak because we said so!
Another thing : **many playrs tank armor** Orly ? During all that time you finally discovered that electronic warfare need a medium slots , therefore shield tanks are not so popular ? And yes.. of course it's the reason to get the shield resistance to explosive 10% less , as it will increase laser dmg output and make shield tank EVEN MORE popular... And no, this doesnt affects minmatar EMP ammunition...
enough..gimme a break ...
Geddons might be top damage dealers because they have enough range. Maybe gallente should learn not to fit blasters on everything so they can actually reach a target with dps before its dead? Failed arguments.
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Sky Marshal
Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.02.04 12:56:00 -
[775]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 04/02/2008 12:56:50
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Geddons might be top damage dealers because they have enough range. Maybe gallente should learn not to fit blasters on everything so they can actually reach a target with dps before its dead? Failed arguments.
He used alliance killboards for his statement, so the result of some fleet battles who are in general in a range of 140/150KM, and indeed we often see Amarr ships in top damage dealers.
I don't think that Gallente pilots are too dumb to fit blasters in this kind of fight...
You fail. _______
16/20 Dragon : ½ Great Game + 14/20 Revelations : ½ Desyncs... + 11/20 Trinity : ½ BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs + 10/20 v1.1 : ½ [...] + EXP shield nerf +
CCP, you are tiring. |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.04 13:05:00 -
[776]
Originally by: Summersnow From Zuluparks BLOG
That is not the ratio they are talking about.
E.G.
If EM = 0% resist shield and 60% resist armor And if Ex = 60% resist armor and 0% resist armor and if thermal = 30% resist shield and 30% reist armor.
Then, against a ship with equal shields and armor a ship that does 100% EM or EX will take longer to kill the total HP than a ship dealing 100% thermal assuming they both do the same dps.
100 DPS vs 100 shield and 100 armor
Thermal = 1.42 seconds shield, 1.42 seconds armor = 2.82 seconds EM = 1 seconds shield, 2.5 seconds armor = 3.5 seconds EX = 2.5 seconds shield, 1 seconds armor = 3.5 seconds
So despite their being "equal" resists on both shield and armor and equal total resits on em and thermal, EM damage is conisderably worse than thermal.
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Avery Ubermann
Pitbull Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.04 13:23:00 -
[777]
It may not be all that was hoped for, hopefully in time that will happen, but in the meantime this is a very pleasing step in the right direction for us Amarrians. \o/
Advanced Psychosis/ Rank 8 / SP: 666666 of 2048000 Currently training to: level 5
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Angelic Eviaran
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Posted - 2008.02.04 14:14:00 -
[778]
Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 04/02/2008 12:56:50
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Geddons might be top damage dealers because they have enough range. Maybe gallente should learn not to fit blasters on everything so they can actually reach a target with dps before its dead? Failed arguments.
He used alliance killboards for his statement, so the result of some fleet battles who are in general in a range of 140/150KM, and indeed we often see Amarr ships in top damage dealers.
I don't think that Gallente pilots are too dumb to fit blasters in this kind of fight...
You fail.
Isnt this because amarr snipers max range ends up around 150km? Therefor its not odd that they are doing the most damage because other snipers have longer then 150km range = less damage at 150km....
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.04 14:53:00 -
[779]
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Isnt this because amarr snipers max range ends up around 150km? Therefor its not odd that they are doing the most damage because other snipers have longer then 150km range = less damage at 150km....
So the only way to make Amarr competitive is to give them the most damage AND the longest range?
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Angelic Eviaran
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Posted - 2008.02.04 15:02:00 -
[780]
Originally by: Ogul
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Isnt this because amarr snipers max range ends up around 150km? Therefor its not odd that they are doing the most damage because other snipers have longer then 150km range = less damage at 150km....
So the only way to make Amarr competitive is to give them the most damage AND the longest range?
We like to make stuff up, yes? Longest range, lol.
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