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Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.02.03 16:18:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kozak Also, don't forget, Caldari capitals can tank the most of any other race. A Wyvern setup with commander mods can tank a whopping 28,000 sustained damage. A Nyx can only be setup to tank around 8,000 sustained damage. Using a shield tank on a Nyx gives you a better tank then armor tanking.
Something is deffinately broken.
I don't know about capitals but armour tank >>>> shield tank for pvp.
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Solomon XI
Caldari Dawn of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.02.03 16:41:00 -
[62]
Let's be honest here.
For PvE, Caldari own. They simply are the best in this field.
For PvP, they are totally useless. This are the -worst- in this field.
I'd like to see their abilities in PvE pushed back into line with the other races and their PvP abilities boosted to be in line with the other races.
Caldari over-powered? Hardly.
You say a Rokh is the best fleet sniper? Erm... not really. Sniping Megathron pwns it.
I am Caldari. And I regret every moment of it.
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.02.03 17:32:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Solomon XI For PvP, they are totally useless. This are the -worst- in this field.
Uhh.. I bed to differ. ECM ships are now the strongest EW ships in the game (saying this as falcon pilot) and in a gang the tackle disadvantage of caldari ships is no major factor, while their tank & gank ability is.
Where caldari are not that great is for: - soloing - speedgangs - fleet dps (but in turn they have the only useable fleet EW)
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DaveW
Caldari South Park Development
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Posted - 2008.02.03 17:40:00 -
[64]
Edited by: DaveW on 03/02/2008 17:42:13
Caldari SUCK... They've got the best of everything and they want MORE. They're going to ruin this game.... Mark my words...... ---------------------------------------------------
"If you can't stand the heat..., stay out of the Kitchen." |
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc. Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.02.03 17:58:00 -
[65]
There's nothing the matter with Caldari in PVP.
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sov68n
Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2008.02.03 18:16:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Elenath The problem is your assumption is totally incorrect. Why would I agree on your fictitious and incorrect assumption when it is wrong?
Defenders are based on a % per volley. Therefore, as others have stated, the Golem loses far more damage per volley then the Raven.
Again, nice try though.
Why don't you present a solved math problem to back up your claims instead of patronizing everyone who is countered to your argument... ----------------------
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.02.03 18:27:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Aramendel on 03/02/2008 18:34:01 Tested it a while ago, it is not per volley. It is per missile.
Go in a belt, kill all rats but one (not necessarily needed, but it makes it easier to test this). Shoot missiles at the remaining rat. First with only one launcher for a min or two. Count the defenders and calculate the defenders/minute. Then the same thing with all launchers.
Defenders/minute is roughly 7 times greater with 7 launchers active than for 1 launcher active. Its a hard % per missile launch.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.03 18:41:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Elenath
The problem is your assumption is totally incorrect. Why would I agree on your fictitious and incorrect assumption when it is wrong?
Defenders are based on a % per volley. Therefore, as others have stated, the Golem loses far more damage per volley then the Raven.
And how does the game determine a "volley" if the game does not know what a "volley" is? Last time I checked you have to activate all launchers seperately. But if you insist on your interpretation, I am sure you can link some proof.
Otherwise, STFU.
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Elenath
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ogul
Originally by: Elenath
The problem is your assumption is totally incorrect. Why would I agree on your fictitious and incorrect assumption when it is wrong?
Defenders are based on a % per volley. Therefore, as others have stated, the Golem loses far more damage per volley then the Raven.
And how does the game determine a "volley" if the game does not know what a "volley" is? Last time I checked you have to activate all launchers seperately. But if you insist on your interpretation, I am sure you can link some proof.
Otherwise, STFU.
A little lesson for the moron here.
It is per volley of the enemies defenders, not per volley of the attacking ship, genius.
Allow me to explain since you're having a hard time. All NPCs firing defenders essentially have a ROF on their missile launchers that are responsible for launching those defender missiles. Each of those volleys has a % chance to fire. The moment a ship begins firing missiles at an NPC that launcher begins that rof cycle and does not cease to stop until the attacker stops firing missiles.
If you cannot read NoNah's foolish comment and do some math on your fingers to figure the rest of this out then I suggest that you take your own advice and STFU.
K.Thx.Bye.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:41:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Malcanis on 03/02/2008 19:42:31
Originally by: DaveW Edited by: DaveW on 03/02/2008 17:42:13
Caldari SUCK... They've got the best of everything and they want MORE. They're going to ruin this game.... Mark my words......
WTS: T2 Kleenex.
1) Who has the best Industrial? Is it Caldari? No! 2) Who has the best DST? Is it Caldari? No! 3) Who has the best Blockade Runner? Is it Caldari? No! 4) Who has best t1 combat frigate? Is it Caldari? No! 5) Who has best T1 combat cruiser? Is it Caldari? No! 6) Who has the best EW cruiser? is it Caldari? Yes! 7) Who has best combat tier 1 BC? Is it Caldari? AAhahahahahaha! No. 8) Who has best combat tier 3 BC? Is it Caldari? Even more LOLs. No! 9) Who has best combat tier 1 BS? Is it Caldari? No! 10) Who has best combat tier 2 BS? Is it Caldari? No! 11) Who has best combat tier 3 BS? Is it Caldari? No! 12) Who has the best carrier? Is it Caldari? No! 13) Who has the best mothership? Is it Caldari? No! 14) Who has the best dreadnaught? Is it Caldari? No! 15) Who has the best DPS interceptor? Is it Caldari? Well maybe. Crow is pretty damb good, but I see a lot of Taranis out there to. Call it a Yes 16) Who has the best tackling interceptor? Is it Caldari? No! 17)Who has the best assault frigate? Is it Caldari? No! 18)Who has the best EAS? Is it Caldari? Hmmm... maybe. Kitsune is nice, so is the Hyena, so is Keres. Call this one a Tie. 19) Who has the best Covops? Is it Caldari? No! 20) Who has the best Interdictor? Is it Caldari? LOL! No. 21) Who has the best HIC? Is it Caldari? No. 22) Who has the best Recon? Hard to call - Falcon/Rook are unbeatable EW ships, but would you trade a Huginn for one? Call this one a Tie as well. 23) Who has the best HAC? Is it Caldari? Now even a contender tbh. No. 24) Who has the best Logistics? Is it Caldari? No (unless you need to rep a POS and don't have carriers I guess.. but in combat? ahahah no.) 25) Who has the best Field Command? Is It Caldari? No! 26) Who has the best Fleet Command? Is it Caldari? No! 27 Who has the best Marauder? I dunno, maybe the Golem is the best. Irrelevant to PvP though, but we'll give it a Yes. 28) Who has the best Black Ops? No idea. Call it a Tie for fairness sake. 29) Who has the best Steathbomber? is it Caldari? No!
So out of 28 classes, Caldari have best in class of 3, and 2 ties.
So yes, I have marked your words. They're marked as the foolish whine that they are. Shut your selfish crying and accept that having a good mission ship counts for jack in PvP.
EDT: Forgot stealthbombers.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:42:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Elenath Allow me to explain since you're having a hard time. All NPCs firing defenders essentially have a ROF on their missile launchers that are responsible for launching those defender missiles. Each of those volleys has a % chance to fire. The moment a ship begins firing missiles at an NPC that launcher begins that rof cycle and does not cease to stop until the attacker stops firing missiles.
Exept it doesn't work this way.
IF it would work like that then fireing only 1 missile would result in it almost always getting killed by defenders, right?
Exept exactly this does not happen.
Try it. I did. Drake vs some random belt rat, fireing one missile only, having zoomed on the rat and counting the defender launches. Did that for 5 min+. Defender launch was pretty low (every 3rd-4th (single) missile I launched was killed) and static.
Then with 7 launchers. Suddenly a LOT more defenders are launched by the same rat.
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Raxxius Maelstrom
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Posted - 2008.02.03 20:22:00 -
[72]
Sorry, but I think a single scorpion has a significantly greater effect on the outcome of a battle than any other Battleship.
I also would take a Falcon over a Huggin.
Drakes are very effective Battlecruisers, and often underestimated, nobody primarys a drake first and it has a fairly high DPS that isn't effected at all by tracking.
Also comparing which ship is the top of a pile of junk isn't that fair, the best assault frigates are behind the combat curve so who cares which is best?
While I don't agree that Caldari have it all their own way, I think that they are the only vital race to bring to a fleet. And this is simply because ECM is massively the most effective Ewar system in the game. While they may not have the highest theoretical DPS, missiles have a lot of versatility and this just simply can't be ignored, no matter how much you want too :P
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Ti Coon
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Posted - 2008.02.03 20:28:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Solid Res Caldari seems to have everything The best T1 BS for missions (Raven) The best T2 BS for missions (Golem) One of the best Fleet Snipers (Rokh) The best Cruiser sniper (Eagle) The best bait (for the price) (Drake) EW ships just own the battlefield (when you have 3+)
The first point I won't even try to dispute.
As for the Golem, it's equal (or worse) to the ages-old Navy Raven, unlike all other marauders which are obviously superior to their races' existing ships.
Rokh is very problematic. It can shoot far but it can't kill anything. That makes it look cool in space and that's about it. Seeing as all other snipers have only slightly shorter range and much better DPS, you fail yet again in making your point.
The Eagle is, indeed, a very good sniper HAC. It suffers from the Rokh's problem: low DPS and alpha. Upcoming changes will make things a bit better but it will hardly be overpowered compared to other turret HACs.
Now the bait, you're trying really hard to come up with more 'arguments' but failing miserably. First of all, tanking is the only thing that Drake is good for in PvP. Even naming it 'Obvious Bait' won't make it more obvious. It's not a factor in the picture of PvP.
EW ships are obviously superior.. in their role. A while back Gallente recons had been very good solo platforms that got hit with the dampener nerf. Caldari recons on the other hand can't solo a medium drone and they die like snowmen in hell since they need low slots to fulfill their primary role. Yes, they are probably the best EW ships atm but not without a heavy price.
The OP is a whining loser who can't devise (or worse, copy) counters for ships that are kicking his arse in gangs.
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Elenath
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.02.03 20:29:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Elenath Allow me to explain since you're having a hard time. All NPCs firing defenders essentially have a ROF on their missile launchers that are responsible for launching those defender missiles. Each of those volleys has a % chance to fire. The moment a ship begins firing missiles at an NPC that launcher begins that rof cycle and does not cease to stop until the attacker stops firing missiles.
Exept it doesn't work this way.
IF it would work like that then fireing only 1 missile would result in it almost always getting killed by defenders, right?
Exept exactly this does not happen.
Try it. I did. Drake vs some random belt rat, fireing one missile only, having zoomed on the rat and counting the defender launches. Did that for 5 min+. Defender launch was pretty low (every 3rd-4th (single) missile I launched was killed) and static.
Then with 7 launchers. Suddenly a LOT more defenders are launched by the same rat.
Wrong.
Read my statement again.
I mention that each cycle has a % chance to fire during that ROF. That is why sometimes you'll see multiple defenders out doing nothing, other times you'll see none.
The more missiles you fire the more chances for a defender to be fired.
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.02.03 20:38:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Elenath I mention that each cycle has a % chance to fire during that ROF. That is why sometimes you'll see multiple defenders out doing nothing, other times you'll see none.
Never did happen as well. There were never more defenders in the air than missiles.
I. e. if there were with 1 launcher active usually 2 missiles in the air at any given time there were never more than 2 defenders in the air at max.
There are no multiple defender launchers. Defenders work like NPC repping or EW, chancebased with no multiple "racks". As said, just test it actually yourself.
Quote: The more missiles you fire the more chances for a defender to be fired.
In which case the defender launch chance is per missile.
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc. Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.02.03 21:30:00 -
[76]
Quote: First of all, tanking is the only thing that Drake is good for in PvP.
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Elenath
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.02.03 21:41:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Elenath I mention that each cycle has a % chance to fire during that ROF. That is why sometimes you'll see multiple defenders out doing nothing, other times you'll see none.
Never did happen as well. There were never more defenders in the air than missiles.
I. e. if there were with 1 launcher active usually 2 missiles in the air at any given time there were never more than 2 defenders in the air at max.
There are no multiple defender launchers. Defenders work like NPC repping or EW, chancebased with no multiple "racks". As said, just test it actually yourself.
Quote: The more missiles you fire the more chances for a defender to be fired.
In which case the defender launch chance is per missile.
Learn to read.
I will state it one more time since you're having a hard time getting your brain around it.
Each volley of defenders launched from an NPC is done so on an ROF timer. For example, let's say a Sansha NPC has a % chance to fire a defender every 5 seconds if a missile is determined to be incoming.
Now, go back and read NoNah's stupid statement (that actually contradicts itself, and tell me if it has anything to do with the truth.
Thx. Bye.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.03 21:42:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Elenath
A little lesson for the moron here.
It is per volley of the enemies defenders, not per volley of the attacking ship, genius.
Gotta love your attitude. Of course, if you had put your typing skills to good use and explain what you actually mean instead of throwing around insults, one might have understood you the first time.
Originally by: Elenath
Allow me to explain since you're having a hard time. All NPCs firing defenders essentially have a ROF on their missile launchers that are responsible for launching those defender missiles. Each of those volleys has a % chance to fire. The moment a ship begins firing missiles at an NPC that launcher begins that rof cycle and does not cease to stop until the attacker stops firing missiles.
Care to link some actual (and official) information instead of this stuff that you just made up?
Originally by: Elenath
If you cannot read NoNah's foolish comment and do some math on your fingers to figure the rest of this out then I suggest that you take your own advice and STFU.
K.Thx.Bye.
Right, everyone a fool but you.
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Elenath
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.02.03 21:56:00 -
[79]
Since your entire post is filled with petulant whining and namecalling I'll only quote the part that matters -
Originally by: Ogul
Care to link some actual (and official) information instead of this stuff that you just made up?
I spent weeks determining the how a volley of defenders was produced. If it was %, per missile, or per volley. It's % based on the enemy's volley of defenders. Can I 'prove' it to you? Nope. You can do better. Go out and test it yourself and you'll find out that what I'm claiming is indeed how it works.
How about you produce some proof to back up your claims? Or you could whine some more.
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.02.03 22:05:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Aramendel on 03/02/2008 22:09:31
Originally by: Elenath Each volley of defenders launched from an NPC is done so on an ROF timer. For example, let's say a Sansha NPC has a % chance to fire a defender every 5 seconds if a missile is determined to be incoming.
It doesn't matter if it is once per missile launch, every 5 seconds while the missile is in the air or every 1 second. It is still PER MISSILE
Aka the more missiles you fire the bigger the chance that a defender is launched.
With 4 compared to 8 missiles you have for 4 half the chance that a defender is fired, but twice the "damage" per defender. 0.5 * 2 = 1. An 8 missile ship does not loose a bigger % of its dps to defenders than a 4 missile ship.
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Lil Mule
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Posted - 2008.02.03 22:16:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Solid Res Caldari seems to have everything
The best T1 BS for missions (Raven) The best T2 BS for missions (Golem) One of the best Fleet Snipers (Rokh) The best Cruiser sniper (Eagle) The best bait (for the price) (Drake) EW ships just own the battlefield (when you have 3+)
Caldari can both PVP and Carebear like no other and yet CCP never touches them. It is like their favorite child. No wonder more people play Caldari then any other race. And if history is any indication they will continue to nerf races with less population.
Im going to approach this from the standpoint that this individual really thinks the Caldari are the ultimate race, and that this is an honest post.
1)Raven: Best T1 BS for missions - completely agree. The Raven is superb for Mission running. Ill even go further to say that for quite some time (prior to revelations) the Raven was too powerful, and was nerfed several times. Ive always gotten the impression from CCP (Whether its true or false - its just an impression) that the Raven was one of their fav ships in many ways. There seemed to be a desire to make it a potent ship, but they quickly realized it was being over-utilized so they nerfed it several times. The Raven however is not so hot in PVP. It can stand its own in small skirmishes post Trinity, which is great (finally), but as most Pirates will tell you - when they see a Raven, most think, Free Loot, no consequences.
2)Golem Best BS for Missions - dont have any experience here so I cant comment
3)Rokh: One of the best Fleet Snipers: The Rokh is ok. That is to say that when you bring it out on the battlefield no one laughs, but at the same time, its not going to be called primary any time soon. The Rokh DPS is sub par, and in 9 out of 10 times, its range is not utilized in fleets. Its really up to the individual Pilot to figure out the best way to use the Rokh's range, but again, in most cases you'll get spanked by your FC for straying out of range of the rest of the fleet. Most people actually feel the Megathron is the best fleet sniper (please see 'Best Fleet Sniper' Thread which is about 2-3 weeks old now). If the range turns your crank, then use Caldari.
4)Eagle: Best Cruiser Sniper: The Eagle is hardly utilized in gangs, or in fleets. Its distance is interesting, but at the same time its dps is super sub-par, hence it doesnt get used. Its actually a pretty useless ship atm - so I wouldnt count this ship best of anything. However, if range really turns your crank, then switch to Caldari, which is one of their prime attributes.
5)Best bait ship: I wouldnt use a Drake as bait. Its not useful in that regard, there are many better ships to use, and Im not sure thats a claim to fame that any ship wants tagged to it anyways. But sure, if you think so.
6) EW ships - no competition, Caldari win this.
Caldari are great for PVE. They arent good at all for PVP. What qualifications do I have to say that? I have 3 characters, all of which are Caldari primary. Ive switched them all out of Caldari ships after first trying them out with PVE and PVP. Other than Ewar, Caldari stink at PVP. Minmatar and Gallente are actually the King and Queen of PVP respectively. Anyone who is serious about PVE can train up Caldari BS, it doesnt take long and is worth the investment. -----------------------------------------------
People enjoy flying Amarr for the same reason they like being tied up in leather, whipped and called names
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Elenath
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.02.03 22:20:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Elenath on 03/02/2008 22:34:59 Edited by: Elenath on 03/02/2008 22:22:08
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 03/02/2008 22:09:31
Originally by: Elenath Each volley of defenders launched from an NPC is done so on an ROF timer. For example, let's say a Sansha NPC has a % chance to fire a defender every 5 seconds if a missile is determined to be incoming.
It doesn't matter if it is once per missile launch, every 5 seconds while the missile is in the air or every 1 second. It is still PER MISSILE
Aka the more missiles you fire the bigger the chance that a defender is launched.
With 4 compared to 8 missiles you have for 4 half the chance that a defender is fired, but twice the "damage" per defender. 0.5 * 2 = 1. An 8 missile ship does not loose a bigger % of its dps to defenders than a 4 missile ship.
I see what your problem is. You need to read my post again.
When I say per volley I am not talking about the player's attacking volley. I have stated that I am talking about the 'volley' being the volley of defenders per launch cycle.
Again, I'll explain this to you. If an NPC has a chance to launch 1 Defender every 5 seconds while an attacker's missile is in flight then the Raven is capable (thanks to its ROF bonus) of firing more missiles within that window. This means the Raven will have less damage negated because it fires more missiles within that single Defender window, and the one missile hit during that cycle packs less damage than a missile from a Golem.
The Golem has no ROF bonus. It will have more of its missiles struck by Defenders thanks to its having a slower ROF. On top of that the Golem has more damage invested in each missile, meaning it loses even more damage.
Do you get it now?
PS. A Good way to illustrate this is to fly a rocket spamming Crow and to watch how many defenders are fired. If they were launched based on attackers missiles per missile then you'd see loads of them. However, you don't. They have a dedicated ROF during which time only one has a chance of being launched.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.03 22:24:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Elenath
I spent weeks determining the how a volley of defenders was produced. If it was %, per missile, or per volley. It's % based on the enemy's volley of defenders. Can I 'prove' it to you? Nope. You can do better. Go out and test it yourself and you'll find out that what I'm claiming is indeed how it works.
How about you produce some proof to back up your claims? Or you could whine some more.
Or I could give you this link. Good enough for you? Want to file a bug report about your findings, maybe?
For those too lazy to click it, let me paste it in here.
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
NPC's have a chance of firing a defender per missile launched at them, it is a myth that Golem suffers less DPS than CNR due to fewer launhcers.
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Elenath
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.02.03 22:28:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Elenath on 03/02/2008 22:29:22
Originally by: Ogul
Originally by: Elenath
I spent weeks determining the how a volley of defenders was produced. If it was %, per missile, or per volley. It's % based on the enemy's volley of defenders. Can I 'prove' it to you? Nope. You can do better. Go out and test it yourself and you'll find out that what I'm claiming is indeed how it works.
How about you produce some proof to back up your claims? Or you could whine some more.
Or I could give you this link. Good enough for you? Want to file a bug report about your findings, maybe?
For those too lazy to click it, let me paste it in here.
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
NPC's have a chance of firing a defender per missile launched at them, it is a myth that Golem suffers less DPS than CNR due to fewer launhcers.
Read my post just above this and do the math on how ROF affects that damage equation.
K.Thx.Bye.
Also, read the end of your quote - 'due to fewer launhcers'
It doesn't lose damage due to fewer launchers. It loses damage thanks to no ROF bonus, which I explained above.
Regardless, my entire point was that NoNah's statement was completely self-contradictory.
However, you're welcome to keep whining. While you're at it, read the rest of that thread you linked where it was proven the Dev you quoted is wrong.
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Ti Coon
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Posted - 2008.02.03 22:41:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Quote: First of all, tanking is the only thing that Drake is good for in PvP.
Dear god, I predicted some wise***** posting something like that but whatever. Yes, you can fit stuff onto drake, yes it's a much cheaper cerberus. No, it still sucks in PvP. Compared to Brutix or Harbi, it's pitiful.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.03 22:46:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Ogul on 03/02/2008 22:50:27
Originally by: Elenath
Read my post just above this and do the math on how ROF affects that damage equation.
Your post based upon wrong assumptions and therefore concluding wrong results? It's worthless.
Originally by: Elenath
Also, read the end of your quote - 'due to fewer launhcers'
I would suggest reading the whole sentence, but that's just me. What he said was:
1) NPC's have a chance of firing a defender per missile launched at them (you are disputing this, in case you didn't notice)
2) it is a myth that Golem suffers less DPS than CNR due to fewer launchers.
In other words: the Golem does not lose more DPS than the CNR due to firing less missiles.
Originally by: Elenath
Regardless, my entire point was that NoNah's statement was completely self-contradictory.
However, you're welcome to keep whining. While you're at it, read the rest of that thread you linked where it was proven the Dev you quoted is wrong.
Nonah's statement was not only not self-contradictory, it was in addition based on the right assumptions and entirely correct.
And the dev was not proven wrong.
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Elenath
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.02.03 22:59:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Elenath on 03/02/2008 23:04:12 Edited by: Elenath on 03/02/2008 23:00:07
Originally by: Ogul
I would suggest reading the whole sentence, but that's just me. What he said was:
1) NPC's have a chance of firing a defender per missile launched at them (you are disputing this, in case you didn't notice)
2) it is a myth that Golem suffers less DPS than CNR due to fewer launchers.
In other words: the Golem does not lose more DPS than the CNR due to firing less missiles.
Originally by: Elenath
Regardless, my entire point was that NoNah's statement was completely self-contradictory.
However, you're welcome to keep whining. While you're at it, read the rest of that thread you linked where it was proven the Dev you quoted is wrong.
Nonah's statement was not only not self-contradictory, it was in addition based on the right assumptions and entirely correct.
And the dev was not proven wrong.
A. NPCs do NOT have a chance of firing a defender per missile. Read what I suggested you try as an experiment using the Crow as an example.
B. The Golem loses DPS thanks to the ROF of a defender volley versus the ROF of the incoming missiles. This is grade school math.
Your problem is that instead of using basic math and a simple experiment you are using a false statement as a proof.
You and NoNah are both entirely wrong. Go test it out or, as you put it, STFU.
PS. As further explanation for you, since you also are having a hard time with all this simple math.
A defender has a chance to fire when an attacker fires a missile at the NPC. That defender launcher has an ROF and cannot fire again until it cycles. Thereofre, the more missiles that can be fired by a player during that ROF cycle the more missiles that can make it past that NPC's defenders until the next cycle on the defender ROF.
Defenders cannot (even theoretically) launch one for every missile. They have an ROF. Get that through your skull.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.03 23:04:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Elenath
A. NPCs do NOT have a chance of firing a defender per missile. Read what I suggested you try as an experiment using the Crow as an example.
B. The Golem loses DPS thanks to the ROF of defender volley versus the ROF of the incoming missiles. This is grade school math.
Your problem is that instead of using basic math and a simple experiment you are using a false statement as a proof.
You and NoNah are both entirely wrong. Go test it out or, as you put it, STFU.
Of course, the devs are wrong and you are right. How could I ever doubt the wisdom of the npc corp alt?
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Elenath
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.02.03 23:10:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Elenath on 03/02/2008 23:12:52 Edited by: Elenath on 03/02/2008 23:10:22
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Elenath Again, I'll explain this to you. If an NPC has a chance to launch 1 Defender every 5 seconds while an attacker's missile is in flight then the Raven is capable (thanks to its ROF bonus) of firing more missiles within that window. This means the Raven will have less damage negated because it fires more missiles within that single Defender window, and the one missile hit during that cycle packs less damage than a missile from a Golem.
That still doesn't make much sense.
If that would be the case then there would be always a 5 second break between defenders. But that is nothing I ever saw, there can be two 1 second apart.
I'll quote what I just typed for you, for clarification -
It takes basic math and about 2 minutes of testing. Tell me, how many times have you seen 4, 5, or 6 defenders launched for every 6 from a Raven? Never you say. Exactly, and I've just explained why.
Defenders have an ROF, otherwise you'd see rare occasions where every missile is eliminated. Go take a Crow and spam an NPC with missiles. Tell me how many times that NPC fired defenders.
There's your answer.
PS. I will add that I ran this test several months back and it had not changed. If it's different now than it has been changed slightly in those months. However, I've noticed no difference.
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Yargo Metash
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.03 23:15:00 -
[90]
I've had 7 defenders out killing my 7 heavy missles 1 second apart on my drake. Dang Elite Drone Battleships.
Then again, I've also have 2 defenders out and no missles taken down because I was within 2-3 sec heavy missle flight time of the ship. Bye bye Guristas.
So get those Torp Golems going and get up close and personal with those Guristas! You'll never worry about defenders again! Muahahahahahahah!
As to the OP: PvE he's spot on. PvP? Just the EWar department.
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