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Jonny JoJo
Amarr The Imperial Guards
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:35:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 22:36:08
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Goumindong Deimos change is meh, 6 lows was fine for it. Zealot change was good.
Apoc is now overpowered.
Thing is apoc still has ****-poor damage compared to other BS. Range bonus gives it ability to mount one more heatsink (instead of TE) and thats all.
No, it doesnt. Its disgustingly good now. Especially with the EM change. Which brings EM as a sniping damage type up a lot closer to kin/therm.
An Apoc with ONE tracking mod hits 188km optimal with 401 DPS. Now, a hyperion does 401 DPS with 182km optimal...
So the apoc does as much DPS as the Hyperion, except it has MORE range with less dedicated slots... Its un-*******-godly.
please tell us Hyperion damage on armour and Apoc damage on armour
Over a 5 minute period factoring in resists
Apoc does massivly small damage still due to cap. Sig locked, lack of Eve content |
Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:36:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Grimpak on 01/02/2008 22:36:39
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 22:34:16
Originally by: Lord MuffloN
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Grimpak
you ever flied a deimos? cruiser-sized tanks are worthless inside web range
Maybe try it out a bit? Give it a chance? Sacri tanks in web range. It resist tanks and deimos has a nice rep bonus. And 4 mids is sexy :-)
No, that ship is supposed to kill before it's killed, else it have failed it's mission.
ZULUPARK! KEEP YER FILTHY HANDS AWAY FROM MY DEIMOS!
Deimos change is Great. Its excellent for non-glass cannon pilots who actually want a non-blober ship and a more quality pvp ship
oh? please explain the point of nerfing a ship that the only thing in favour of it is damage, while lacking in tank, cap, agility, speed, grid and cpu? ---
planetary interaction idea! |
Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:36:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Goumindong
Yes, that means it does more damage, has better range, and tracks better than a Megathron. Woo for balance!
Wow! So actually Hyperion which is CLOSE RANGE gankboat should be better at close AND long range? I dont think so...
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr The Imperial Guards
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:38:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 22:39:15
Originally by: Grimpak oh? please explain the point of nerfing a ship that the only thing in favour of it is damage, while lacking in tank, cap, agility, grid and cpu?
CCP cannot be held responsible for the pilot not understanding how much they boosted Demios. Please pretend that a Demios never existed before today, remove all pre-conceptions and treat it as a new ship. There, then you will relise how good it is now.
You are trying to use a old 2005 setup on a 2008 ship setup for 2008 pvp. Sig locked, lack of Eve content |
Erayo
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:39:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Erayo on 01/02/2008 22:42:21
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 01/02/2008 22:34:48
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Goumindong Deimos change is meh, 6 lows was fine for it. Zealot change was good.
Apoc is now overpowered.
Thing is apoc still has ****-poor damage compared to other BS. Range bonus gives it ability to mount one more heatsink (instead of TE) and thats all.
No, it doesnt. Its disgustingly good now. Especially with the EM change. Which brings EM as a sniping damage type up a lot closer to kin/therm.
An Apoc with ONE tracking mod hits 188km optimal with 401 DPS. Now, a hyperion does 401 DPS with 182km optimal...
So the apoc does as much DPS as the Hyperion, except it has MORE range with less dedicated slots... Its un-*******-godly.
Yes, that means it does more damage, has better range, and tracks better than a Megathron. Woo for balance!
Yeah, this is true that apoc is tier 2 and hype is 3. Besides that, hype is for blasters and it tanks better than apoc - theoretically (cap issues). Thus they are incomparable. But, i agree Apoc getting 4 bonuses now cap bonus, turrent range bonus, less cap usage for turrets and 25% increase damage from em res nerf. make that 5, bonus to PG
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:39:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
please tell us Hyperion damage on armour and Apoc damage on armour
Over a 5 minute period
Apoc does massivly small damage still due to cap.
The apoc now has its cap bonus built in. It has more powergrid and so has an easier time fitting tachyons, gaining a real slot in its fitting.
it gains 5 CPU letting it fit a sniping fit with an MWD even easier.
Even shooting against ships with tanks its more effective than a megathron or Hyperion with more range. Its un-*******-godly. Imbalanced.
It is the best sniper in the game, not an exaggeration.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:40:00 -
[97]
I like those changes. I'll actually have to change my sig.
CCP, can you tell us what you have planned for the Retribution, please? ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Jonny JoJo
Amarr The Imperial Guards
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:41:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 22:42:42
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
please tell us Hyperion damage on armour and Apoc damage on armour
Over a 5 minute period
Apoc does massivly small damage still due to cap.
The apoc now has its cap bonus built in. It has more powergrid and so has an easier time fitting tachyons, gaining a real slot in its fitting.
it gains 5 CPU letting it fit a sniping fit with an MWD even easier.
Even shooting against ships with tanks its more effective than a megathron or Hyperion with more range. Its un-*******-godly. Imbalanced.
It is the best sniper in the game, not an exaggeration.
Please post its DPS and Hyperion DPS over a 5 minute period factoring in resists, cap use etc etc. Hyperion REAL damage still outclasses it over a 1 minute period, a 5 minute period, and a 10 minute period.
Apoc is not the OMG ship, but insted of being legless, it now has a wheelchair. Once cap is fixed, it is ready to stand in its feet.
Sig locked, lack of Eve content |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:42:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
please tell us Hyperion damage on armour and Apoc damage on armour
Over a 5 minute period
Apoc does massivly small damage still due to cap.
The apoc now has its cap bonus built in. It has more powergrid and so has an easier time fitting tachyons, gaining a real slot in its fitting.
it gains 5 CPU letting it fit a sniping fit with an MWD even easier.
Even shooting against ships with tanks its more effective than a megathron or Hyperion with more range. Its un-*******-godly. Imbalanced.
It is the best sniper in the game, not an exaggeration.
Yeah but hype and mega have other advantages, you cant only look at range and damage. Its fine.
Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:42:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Apoc is not the OMG ship, but insted of being legless, it now has a wheelchair. Once cap is fixed, it is ready to stand in its feet.
Even w/o testing it i can tell you after "em" fix amarr doesnt need any more boosting to lasers.
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:43:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Grimpak oh? please explain the point of nerfing a ship that the only thing in favour of it is damage, while lacking in tank, cap, agility, grid and cpu?
CCP cannot be held responsible for the pilot not understanding how much they boosted Demios. Please pretend that a Demios never existed before today, remove all pre-conceptions and treat it as a new ship. There, then you will relise how good it is now.
well, they added a mid and cut out a low.
removed the mwd bonus and now we have 1500 cap.
that means that to use the ship I have to:
- fit an injector to maintain the mwd - fit a MAR apparently, wich will give me a cycle before I go pop, since I have to go INSIDE web range to do any damage. - fit electrons now that I don't have grid to fit even ions, wich were already a tight fitting with a single MAR
wich means that the gank cruiser by excelence (it was how it was designed), with craptastic tank, even worse cap, and now coupled with less damage and even LESS cap becomes... what? a flying green *****?
better off flying a brutix. At least I can cycle the rep twice before I explode. ---
planetary interaction idea! |
Jonny JoJo
Amarr The Imperial Guards
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:44:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 22:45:00
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Apoc is not the OMG ship, but insted of being legless, it now has a wheelchair. Once cap is fixed, it is ready to stand in its feet.
Even w/o testing it i can tell you after "em" fix amarr doesnt need any more boosting to lasers.
There are more laserships in this game other than the apoc, and the new apoc still has major cap problems. But like I said, its a good start. Sig locked, lack of Eve content |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:44:00 -
[103]
Wow, fixes to the gimp Amarr boats *and* to the gimp caldari railolboats?
I'm impressed, CCP.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:46:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Apoc is not the OMG ship, but insted of being legless, it now has a wheelchair. Once cap is fixed, it is ready to stand in its feet.
Even w/o testing it i can tell you after "em" fix amarr doesnt need any more boosting to lasers.
There are more laserships in this game other than the apoc, and the new apoc still has major cap problems. But like I said, its a good start.
It sure is a good start. Lets wait and see where it takes us but most of our ships can really only go up.
Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
Ishan Mons
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:46:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 22:45:00
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Apoc is not the OMG ship, but insted of being legless, it now has a wheelchair. Once cap is fixed, it is ready to stand in its feet.
Even w/o testing it i can tell you after "em" fix amarr doesnt need any more boosting to lasers.
There are more laserships in this game other than the apoc, and the new apoc still has major cap problems. But like I said, its a good start.
there are pleanty of ships with "cap problems" not all of them amarr... if cap was never a problem they should just remove it from the game ------------------------ Infrared = heat = thermal Infrared crystals = less therm more EM I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS! Reach in front of a 10watt CO2 laser some time you'll get it... |
Erayo
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:47:00 -
[106]
If this was wiki, I'd suggest this forum be split into: Diputes of Deimos and Disputes of Apoc and lasers, poor JoJo is putting up a good fight in both of these categories
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Lord MuffloN
Caldari Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:47:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Grimpak oh? please explain the point of nerfing a ship that the only thing in favour of it is damage, while lacking in tank, cap, agility, grid and cpu?
CCP cannot be held responsible for the pilot not understanding how much they boosted Demios. Please pretend that a Demios never existed before today, remove all pre-conceptions and treat it as a new ship. There, then you will relise how good it is now.
well, they added a mid and cut out a low.
removed the mwd bonus and now we have 1500 cap.
that means that to use the ship I have to:
- fit an injector to maintain the mwd - fit a MAR apparently, wich will give me a cycle before I go pop, since I have to go INSIDE web range to do any damage. - fit electrons now that I don't have grid to fit even ions, wich were already a tight fitting with a single MAR
wich means that the gank cruiser by excelence (it was how it was designed), with craptastic tank, even worse cap, and now coupled with less damage and even LESS cap becomes... what? a flying green *****?
better off flying a brutix. At least I can cycle the rep twice before I explode.
THIS!
Originally by: Jago Kain If they ever decide to award a Nobel Prize for Emo, Lord MuffloN is a sure fire winner of the first on |
Jonny JoJo
Amarr The Imperial Guards
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:50:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 22:51:21
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Grimpak oh? please explain the point of nerfing a ship that the only thing in favour of it is damage, while lacking in tank, cap, agility, grid and cpu?
CCP cannot be held responsible for the pilot not understanding how much they boosted Demios. Please pretend that a Demios never existed before today, remove all pre-conceptions and treat it as a new ship. There, then you will relise how good it is now.
well, they added a mid and cut out a low.
removed the mwd bonus and now we have 1500 cap.
that means that to use the ship I have to:
- fit an injector to maintain the mwd - fit a MAR apparently, wich will give me a cycle before I go pop, since I have to go INSIDE web range to do any damage. - fit electrons now that I don't have grid to fit even ions, wich were already a tight fitting with a single MAR
wich means that the gank cruiser by excelence (it was how it was designed), with craptastic tank, even worse cap, and now coupled with less damage and even LESS cap becomes... what? a flying green *****?
better off flying a brutix. At least I can cycle the rep twice before I explode.
You want Demios to be better than Battleccruisers? Battlecruisers are the hac killers of today's pvp.
Becides - everthing on that list is what Amarr pilots are faced with. So expect no sympathy, as other races do this currently. Sig locked, lack of Eve content |
Mark Lucius
The Vinlanders SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:51:00 -
[109]
I am not sure about the Deimos changes...
Well at least it adds diversity, right? /sarcasm ---
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Junkie Beverage
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:52:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Whoever's responsible for the Zealot changes...
I love you. I am YOURS. MARRY ME.
jesus christ its istvaan shogaatsu
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:54:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 22:51:21
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Grimpak oh? please explain the point of nerfing a ship that the only thing in favour of it is damage, while lacking in tank, cap, agility, grid and cpu?
CCP cannot be held responsible for the pilot not understanding how much they boosted Demios. Please pretend that a Demios never existed before today, remove all pre-conceptions and treat it as a new ship. There, then you will relise how good it is now.
well, they added a mid and cut out a low.
removed the mwd bonus and now we have 1500 cap.
that means that to use the ship I have to:
- fit an injector to maintain the mwd - fit a MAR apparently, wich will give me a cycle before I go pop, since I have to go INSIDE web range to do any damage. - fit electrons now that I don't have grid to fit even ions, wich were already a tight fitting with a single MAR
wich means that the gank cruiser by excelence (it was how it was designed), with craptastic tank, even worse cap, and now coupled with less damage and even LESS cap becomes... what? a flying green *****?
better off flying a brutix. At least I can cycle the rep twice before I explode.
You want Demios to be better than Battleccruisers? Battlecruisers are the hac killers of today's pvp.
ah?
the brutix atm is still better than the deimos except on the agility department.
the only reason why people like to fly the deimos it's because it packs so much firepower in such a small package.
you are also risking allot aswell, since to do such damage you need to be at 1km range from the guy.
but hey, apparently you have a plan for the thing.
do tell. ---
planetary interaction idea! |
Erayo
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:54:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Grimpak oh? please explain the point of nerfing a ship that the only thing in favour of it is damage, while lacking in tank, cap, agility, grid and cpu?
CCP cannot be held responsible for the pilot not understanding how much they boosted Demios. Please pretend that a Demios never existed before today, remove all pre-conceptions and treat it as a new ship. There, then you will relise how good it is now.
well, they added a mid and cut out a low.
removed the mwd bonus and now we have 1500 cap.
that means that to use the ship I have to:
- fit an injector to maintain the mwd - fit a MAR apparently, wich will give me a cycle before I go pop, since I have to go INSIDE web range to do any damage. - fit electrons now that I don't have grid to fit even ions, wich were already a tight fitting with a single MAR
wich means that the gank cruiser by excelence (it was how it was designed), with craptastic tank, even worse cap, and now coupled with less damage and even LESS cap becomes... what? a flying green *****?
better off flying a brutix. At least I can cycle the rep twice before I explode.
You want Demios to be better than Battleccruisers? Battlecruisers are the hac killers of today's pvp.
I thought Ishtar was superior to the myrmidon? I am sorry to say this, and will tell you I'm not biased against you, but this time you made a statement that is false. I'm sure Cerberus is better than ferox too
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Biced
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:54:00 -
[113]
5% grid to the Omen would be really nice
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:55:00 -
[114]
Apoc fires for 5 minutes Hyperion fires for 4 minutes 17 seconds since it has space for a cap mod in the lows while still hitting that optimal range.
Da-Apoc is better.
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr The Imperial Guards
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:55:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Ishan Mons there are pleanty of ships with "cap problems" not all of them amarr... if cap was never a problem they should just remove it from the game
Amarr ships have the worst cap problems, but another racec that had a cap problem, such as minmatar, got a 100% cap reduction fix by CCP, during the last Minmatar fix.
No other race needs 5+ cap mods to sustain enough guns to do reasonable and competitive damage. Sig locked, lack of Eve content |
Jonny JoJo
Amarr The Imperial Guards
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Posted - 2008.02.01 22:57:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Goumindong Apoc fires for 5 minutes Hyperion fires for 4 minutes 17 seconds since it has space for a cap mod in the lows while still hitting that optimal range.
Da-Apoc is better.
Damage please. Come on. Please tell us damage output of apoc vs Hyperion at standard pvp sniper range of 160km (or whatever range you can justify, since rokh can do 200km). Sig locked, lack of Eve content |
Summersnow
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:00:00 -
[117]
It looks like amarr are getting the extra high slot they have converted to gun slots.
Personally I'd rather see them converted to launcher slots to give them the alternate damage types they've whined about for so long.
As far as the increased grid...
umm, the reason amarr have so damn many lowslots is to fit grid increasing items.
give them the grid if you want, but remove a low slot to compensate for it.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:01:00 -
[118]
There is a devblog coming which should shed more light onto various things. I'm not going to steal its thunder by giving any details here, but I have noticed that everyone seems to have missed a few changes thus far. Keep it civil and try to exercise a little patience
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:03:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Goumindong Apoc fires for 5 minutes Hyperion fires for 4 minutes 17 seconds since it has space for a cap mod in the lows while still hitting that optimal range.
Da-Apoc is better.
Damage please. Come on. Please tell us damage output of apoc vs Hyperion at standard pvp sniper range of 160km (or whatever range you can justify, since rokh can do 200km).
Hyperion does 401 normalized. Apoc does about the same. +/- 2-3% depending on the tank.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.01 23:04:00 -
[120]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale There is a devblog coming which should shed more light onto various things. I'm not going to steal its thunder by giving any details here, but I have noticed that everyone seems to have missed a few changes thus far. Keep it civil and try to exercise a little patience
Are they as ridiculous as making the Apoc the best sniper in the game and the Eagle the best anti-support in the game?
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