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Misanth
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.02 09:24:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Verx Interis As for the others:
Zealot: Good
Omen: Needs PG like nothing else
Tracking Disruptors: Time to get out the Arbi again. MINMATAR PILOTS FEAR ME!
Now fix the Prophecy and Maller and we will be very happy in the pants. I'm loving all of this.
Edit: Apocalyoomph = AWESOME. No longer Crapocalypse or Apocalolypse.
Pretty good summary, seems about what the general opinion in these threads are as well.
I love the arbitrator, and I still cry tears about my old armortanked Pilgrim (no mwd/ab even) being totally destroyed. Funnily enough I been doing some cheaper Arbitrators now and then just for fun, ordered materials for a new one just hours before reading this. Gonna have a blast, if these changes goes through.
About the Apoc, I have mixed feelings. It seems to be incredibly powerful for sniping, and that's what it's going to do, Abaddon is still better at everything else. I have no experience from fleet sniping, so to me the changes looks "good", but if it's true as Guom and the BoB-lady says (and I'm sure both of them know more about fleet sniping than I do), then it's a bit disturbing. Maybe it would've been better to make it the huge drone/ew boat that was mentioned many moons ago.
All in all, I'm happy I have spent 2 years and 4 months (with only 2-3 days exception of gallente frig/cruiser so I can get the thorax/myrmi for my drone fun) focusing on Amarr. I can only remember being excited about Amarr changes once during all these years, and that was the Sacrilege changes. Just to find it need me to train missile/shield tank (which I refuse). I.e., this is the first time in near 2.5 year I'm looking forward to Amarr changes. I never whined during these years either. Think it's about time I deserve some cookies.
MMmm, Zealot. Give it on TQ please, now. :)
Originally by: Rodj Blake This is a historic occasion.
Apocaloomph.
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Tsu'ko
Valley Forge STELLAR LEGION
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Posted - 2008.02.02 09:34:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Tsu''ko on 02/02/2008 09:35:01
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Sniper Balance only works if you can shoot. Amarr had WORST RANGE. WORST FITTING REQ, and WORST CAP USEAGE.
They Now have 2nd Best Range, WORST FITTING REQ and WORST CAP USAGE.
New Apoc has Lowest DPS done on REAL ships over a 5 minute period
And oyu think that somehow they are OMG? Do you beleive Amarr have INFINITE CAP?
I know, don't feed the trolls, but LOOK AT THE DAMN SETUPS. Seriously, you can't even play EFT well. If you'd actually bothered to look at the setups, you'd find that the new Apoc's cap lasts essentially the same amount of time as the Rokh, Megathron and Hyperion. With MWD active or off, they all go cap dead at the same time.
Lowest effective dps is just a joke. We're talking about un-tanked fleet snipers here, so shield and armor HP are approximately equal. The 50% EM resist on armor is balanced out by the 0% EM resist on shields, leaving lasers just fine, especially now that the base resists have been slashed.
And your comment about fitting is just laughable. Lasers have high grid requirements, but guess what, Amarr ships have high grid to allow them to fit lasers! Amarr ships as a whole are no more difficult to fit than any other race.
Do you even fly Amarr?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of gold. Amarr simply sit there and charge their lasers, secure in their knowledge that God is on their side.
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Tsu'ko
Valley Forge STELLAR LEGION
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Posted - 2008.02.02 09:38:00 -
[213]
Your talk about Apocaloompha being overpowered and obsoletes other ships is silly, in that case amarr is obsolete now (before boost patch) yet there are a fair amount of players flying amarr.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of gold. Amarr simply sit there and charge their lasers, secure in their knowledge that God is on their side.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:00:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Wu Jiun Edited by: Wu Jiun on 02/02/2008 08:50:12
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
apoc being overpowered now
Ok, lets for one moment take anything you say for granted. Then please do me the favour and answer the question lyria implicitly asked: What if not sniping should the apoc be good at?
Your question how many races does eve have is indeed spot on.
Currently whatever it is speed, closerange/1v1 gank, sniping, or ewar somebody (not amarr) thinks he should have the best ships at and should have competitive ships at.
Guess what amarr are no different. They'd like to have competitive ships too. Until now apoc wasn't competitive not as a sniper and not in closerange either.
So whats left for us? I am tired of getting told "oh its a gallente ship they should own you in closerange", "oh its a rokh it needs to be the better sniper", "oh its a falcon it needs to have the better range/more useful/less cap intense ewar"
I'd really like to hear some constructive ideas rather than crying for a nerf of the apoc before it even got boosted.
Take a raven and compare it to abaddon/geddon. It gets same range, more damage, no cap use and arbitrary damage types with 6 siege launchers compared to 7 mps on the geddon and 8 on the baddon. Do i see you crying for a nerf? Amarr are the supposed kings of medium range, aren't we? Where is your precious balance here?
Funny by the way the mp geddon/baddon do have 10km falloff in which they exceed the siege ravens range. Reminds me of the 10km that your rokh has over the apoc. What goes around comes around you know?
Really people are just used to being better than amarr on pretty much every account. Thats the only problem we have currently.
This wins the thread. Apoc is fine, people are just not used to amarr ships being competetive and actually good at something for a change.
Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II |
Firmus Terra
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:20:00 -
[215]
Edited by: Firmus Terra on 02/02/2008 14:23:36
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
This wins the thread. Apoc is fine, people are just not used to amarr ships being competetive and actually good at something for a change.
This really does win the thread. Was going to quote this earlier when my computer spontaneously restarted. Why the hell can't Amarr have the best sniper? Give me one reason. Every other niche has a number one. It even fits within RP reasons - Amarr are supposed to field the most formidable fleets. Snipers are the main battle tank of a fleet. What is left for Amarr when all the other races have claims to every niche? Mid range? Laugh! As pointed out earlier, we're not even best at that.
Fact is Amarr ships are going to HAVE to invade a niche to be competitive. Somebody is not going to like it. Well tough cookies, that's what has to happen if Amarr is going to be up to scratch. Sorry your shoes got scuffed, but the empire has been walked all over for the past couple of years.
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Vaedian GER
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:28:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Whoever's responsible for the Zealot changes...
I love you.
signed
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Dr Paithos
Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:39:00 -
[217]
I still say make the Omen tier 3, with appropriate grid and capacitor, and make the Maller tier 2, with the possible loss of one or two slots and some grid. The "tanky no damage" role of the Maller doesn't deserve tier 3 IMO.
Otherwise I am a happy panda. One question for all the "overpowered Apoc" discussers:
How well does a fleet sniper Apoc plated as an anti-doomsday measure compare to, err, let's say the Megathron and the Tempest in terms of fitting and utility? I mean an actual fleet sniper so it has to have a MWD too.
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Skjorta
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:00:00 -
[218]
I'm really enjoying the "omg, another ship can do it slightly better, therefore my ship must be completely and utterly useless."
Quit playing the numbers game and just fly what u think is fun and fits your playing style ffs.
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:17:00 -
[219]
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 02/02/2008 15:18:22 I've just been doing a little EFT after seeing those comparative setups and the rather silly comments JoJo was making about them.
1) You need a CPU Implant to fit the Apoc like that. (you're short 1.75 CPU) I know its silly, but that MWD won't fit. So replace 1 SBII with a best named and it fits, no loss in performance. 2) The Rokh still has more range, even after factoring in the new range bonus. Apoc has about 212k with Aurora, Rokh is at 253, so out to max lock-range without falloff. 3) The Rokh's cap actually lasts less time than the Apoc. It caps out after about 3 and a half minutes. The Apoc runs out after 4 minutes or so. 4) Apoc has more raw DPS than the Rokh at their max range. 401.5 DPS before enemy resists compared to 306.1 DPS for the Rokh before enemy resists. Although the Apoc will be shooting into falloff rather sooner than the Rokh will.
Overal both are probably viable long-range fleet snipers. I doubt that is in need of nerfing. Having multiple ships good at a given role means more variety.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:18:00 -
[220]
These whiners are hilarious.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:30:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Dr Paithos I still say make the Omen tier 3, with appropriate grid and capacitor, and make the Maller tier 2, with the possible loss of one or two slots and some grid. The "tanky no damage" role of the Maller doesn't deserve tier 3 IMO.
Otherwise I am a happy panda. One question for all the "overpowered Apoc" discussers:
How well does a fleet sniper Apoc plated as an anti-doomsday measure compare to, err, let's say the Megathron and the Tempest in terms of fitting and utility? I mean an actual fleet sniper so it has to have a MWD too.
This is a good idea i think. Omen tier 3 and maller tier 2.
-------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
Skjorta
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:31:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu These whiners are hilarious.
Also fun to watch the people who complained about the amarr whiners start to whine that their ships aren't king anymore and it should be changed
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:33:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 02/02/2008 08:43:03 Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 02/02/2008 08:42:26
The Flaw in your charts is CAP USAGE.
Please re-draw the apoc and its almost 0 dps due to no cap. Running 8 Tach lasts a few mins as 8 tach is like being drained by 8 Heavy Nos II!
Also - you forgot about resits. Factoring in resists it is noware near ahead in terms of REAL DPS on REAL SHIPS.
God you fail so hard with your assumptions like usual.
Maybe you missed the +25% cap amount with no change to recharge rate. Which means you can actually fire around the same amount of time as a Megathron, Rokh or Hyperion. So your "real dps" is the same time frame as the other ships so how about I draw Apoc, Mega and Rokh with 0 dps? Thats right your just plain wrong and picking numbers out of the air like usual.
Real resistances? You mean these ships like apoc, mega, maelstrom and rokh? Ok some might use a tempest but they're really hard to tank without lossing its already lowest dps and range. The largest % of HP on tanked snipers is structure.... ooops thats even for everyone. Lets not even mention the resistance changes either.
Hay can even fit: 7x Tachs (Aurora). MWD, 3x Sensor Booster T2. RCU, 3x HS T2, 3x TE T2.
Same DPS as Mega (without reloads), more range, more tracking, more volley damage for similar cap firing time. Can drop a TE and still have more range than Mega.
Like has been said, there no reason to use another sniper unless you can't use a Apoc.
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 02/02/2008 09:32:45 Half of what JoJo says is pretty crap, but the other half is quite spot on Merin. I would have to agree wtih JoJo on Amarr ships being difficult to fit due to low grid, and especially on the Apoc though. Currently, many Amarr pilots have to drop down to 7 or 6 tach just to let them fit a setup without lots of firring mods/rigs. Amarr ships are very difficult to fit and this can be due to CPU on a apoc or, as is more often the case, due to no grid resulting in lots of fitting mods etc (2-3 RCU/ACR is not unheard of).
I see CCP are increasing apoc grid so CPU will be tight, but as someone who uses Amarr and Caldai, I would have to be honest in saying that Amarr still pretty much suck for the most part. Remember how everyone thought that the Rokh was going to be the OMG sniper? It never happened because it was decent, but not that practical. Same thing with apoc. All that is happening here is apoc does not need 3 x tracking mods in its slots to do a competitive amount of real dps. This frees up slots for damage mods or plates or whatever, which is something that a 8 tach apoc pilot did not have the luxuary of having before.
Why would you ever use another sniper unless you can't fly a new Apoc? Even with 7 tachs you do same damage as a mega and more volley damage. This is vastly different to the Rokh where people were claiming its extra range would mean everyone would fly it, but its lower dps, volley dmg, tracking are major downsides. The Apoc completely outclasses the others in all but 2 catagories where it comes second (volley = arty, range = rokh).
Being best in all but 2 catagories which your second in is awesomely powerful, a big change from the claims made about the Rokh. Its even flexable enough now to drop a gun and fitting module and still be better than others. Hard fitting just isn't there anymore as its not truely a sacrifice. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:35:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Meiyang Lee Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 02/02/2008 15:18:22 I've just been doing a little EFT after seeing those comparative setups and the rather silly comments JoJo was making about them.
1) You need a CPU Implant to fit the Apoc like that. (you're short 1.75 CPU) I know its silly, but that MWD won't fit. So replace 1 SBII with a best named and it fits, no loss in performance. 2) The Rokh still has more range, even after factoring in the new range bonus. Apoc has about 212k with Aurora, Rokh is at 253, so out to max lock-range without falloff. 3) The Rokh's cap actually lasts less time than the Apoc. It caps out after about 3 and a half minutes. The Apoc runs out after 4 minutes or so. 4) Apoc has more raw DPS than the Rokh at their max range. 401.5 DPS before enemy resists compared to 306.1 DPS for the Rokh before enemy resists. Although the Apoc will be shooting into falloff rather sooner than the Rokh will.
Overal both are probably viable long-range fleet snipers. I doubt that is in need of nerfing. Having multiple ships good at a given role means more variety.
1 RCU t1 and 1 named RCU means it fits. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Disteeler
Segunda Fundacion
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:35:00 -
[225]
First I though, lol apoc is so uber that makes the rokh an obsolete sniper but then I thought I like the changes. Why? A fleet with apocs and rokhs at the very rear (220-240km) dealing 3 of the 4 main damages (em, kin and termal) would be awesome. FC won't need to tell rokh pilots to downgrade to 180km anymore to be in-line with the other BS and the damage will be pretty nice ^^
Sig by Black Necris |
Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:44:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Like has been said, there no reason to use another sniper unless you can't use a Apoc.
Then train it and use it. Question again: why gallente MUST HAVE best closerange boats and best snipers? They dont. Thy rule closerange are good longrange. Now amarr rule longrange have good closerange. Happy?
If not i opt for nerfing close range so apoc (w/o boost) remains competetive at that distance. 1200dps neutron mega? Naw - 800 should do the trick.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:49:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Like has been said, there no reason to use another sniper unless you can't use a Apoc.
Then train it and use it. Question again: why gallente MUST HAVE best closerange boats and best snipers? They dont. Thy rule closerange are good longrange. Now amarr rule longrange have good closerange. Happy?
If not i opt for nerfing close range so apoc (w/o boost) remains competetive at that distance. 1200dps neutron mega? Naw - 800 should do the trick.
QFT. Its not like the whole eve universe is flying THE ship for THE job at hand. Everyone doesnt have ALL the skills for ALL the races. So one of our battleships are good at fleet sniping now. Its not like gallente BS snipers have been nerfed. Its not like gallente BS snipers cant be fitted short range and own a short range apoc.
Gallente needs to get used to not being THE best close range gankers AND the best snipers. Sometimes you dont have THE best ship.
-------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:07:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 02/02/2008 16:08:04
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Like has been said, there no reason to use another sniper unless you can't use a Apoc.
Then train it and use it. Question again: why gallente MUST HAVE best closerange boats and best snipers? They dont. Thy rule closerange are good longrange. Now amarr rule longrange have good closerange. Happy?
If not i opt for nerfing close range so apoc (w/o boost) remains competetive at that distance. 1200dps neutron mega? Naw - 800 should do the trick.
Then in your world EVE will never be balanced, the weakest ships in a class will get boosted to best at some role, then eventually something will be worst and outclassed by all the others so it will require boosting.
It was possible to boost the Apoc without making it outclass all the other ships. Each races ship should provide something different to a role, gallente don't rule close range, there close range ships have a weakness just like Amarr do, but they are different. The new Apoc doesn't add something different, its clearly better than other alternatives in such a way that really they arn't needed as they can't provide anything different.
I have a Amarr pilot and Minmatar pilot here, so don't just assume I can't fly them just because i'm against the strength of this boost. I actually want a balanced EVE .
Applies to you to Lyria, being best at somethings in a role is good, being best at everything in a role is bad balance. Theres also more to EVE than Gallente, don't forget now your better than there sniper which was deemed best previously, how far ahead are you to the rest? Substancially to a point theres no point in them. -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:16:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Then in your world EVE will never be balanced, the weakest ships in a class will get boosted to best at some role, then eventually something will be worst and outclassed by all the others so it will require boosting.
No, because as a race amarr didnt have as many useful ships. Now we have a couple and some are better then other races ships with small margins. You just assume everyone has every race skill and guns trained. Amarr is now getting competetive and its about time.
-------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
SiJira
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:24:00 -
[230]
Edited by: SiJira on 02/02/2008 16:23:53 zulu ive loved you even when they hated you and its all in my post history Trashed sig, Shark was here |
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:34:00 -
[231]
Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 02/02/2008 16:35:23
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Then in your world EVE will never be balanced, the weakest ships in a class will get boosted to best at some role, then eventually something will be worst and outclassed by all the others so it will require boosting.
No, because as a race amarr didnt have as many useful ships. Now we have a couple and some are better then other races ships with small margins. You just assume everyone has every race skill and guns trained. Amarr is now getting competetive and its about time.
I love how to be competitive / useful you have to be best... . Only really maller, omen, proph and Apoc were "not competetive", anything else like the Zealot only needed a few small changes like many other ships in EVE to be better balanced. Saying it wasn't competetive is a slight exaguration.
Zealot boost, ok, no idea why boosted Eagle to and what happened to the Muninn? CCP really think it was better than the other two that they both deserved a 25% increase in damage? . -------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente The Forsakened Companions Pure.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:40:00 -
[232]
Glad I stuck with amarr.
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:50:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 02/02/2008 17:50:52
Originally by: Mila Prestoc I love how to be competitive / useful you have to be best... . Only really maller, omen, proph and Apoc were "not competetive", anything else like the Zealot only needed a few small changes like many other ships in EVE to be better balanced. Saying it wasn't competetive is a slight exaguration.
As I said before:
As things stand today, assuming you had L5 skills in everything, is there a single sub-cap Amarr ship you would take out for anything rather than opting for a different ship (excepting Fleet Commands which each have a particular niche to fill)?
The answer is no.
Every other race has ships you would opt for first. Amarr have zero. They may be ok(ish) but hardly stellar for anything.
More to the point, while the Amarr changes are nice, I think Amarr are getting hoodwinked with these changes. Amarr pilots are so thrilled at any buff I think they have missed that CCP is not actually changing any underlying problems which are at the root of Amarr angst.
- Amarr are supposed to be flying golden rocks. But their tanks while good are hardly better than anyone else's (indeed the best tanks in the game are not Amarr).
- Amarr are supposed to hit like a sledgehammer but not have the legs for a long fight (cap issues). But they do not hit particularly hard and are often beat there and still cap out far too fast.
- Amarr are supposed to own the middle ground but fights almost never happen there. In order to maintain the middle ground they do well in they'd need speed/agility to see to it their enemies are kept there. But Amarr fail here as well. Long range people only need to keep you far. Close range people only need to keep you close. Amarr are expected to work both ends of that keeping you not too close and not too far. They mostly cannot do that. Add in Amarr have the worst falloff and the sweet spot for Amarr to fight at is painfully narrow.
- Amarr are midslot gimped. In theory they should make up for this with stellar tanks and/or stellar DPS but as shown above they are not stellar in those departments. Midslots are the wildcard in EVE and is the place to allow for flexibility in ship setups. Amarr just fail completely there with no real upside. Why do you think armor tanks are so popular? Shield tanks are actually superior but people want their mids for EW and such. Midslots are the most valuable slots on any ship and Amarr have painfully few.
- Due to midslot issues Amarr just cannot compete at all in the EW side of the game.
- Since Amarr are beholden to lasers more than any other race they are creamed by EW worse than any other race. Drones, missiles, speed allow for other races to have an "out" when facing EW. Amarr can do what? Tracking disruptors and neuts are especially painful for Amarr to face.
- EM/Therm limited ammo. Old story, everyone knows it. Not sure CCP's "fix" to this is the answer (not to mention they buffed Minmatar trying to fix Amarr here ).
- A ship "bonus" is lost just to fire their weapons at all. Even with the bonus their ships only barely do better cap wise than hybrids IF the Amarr player has relevant skills all trained to L5. Another old complaint.
- Cap issues hamper Amarr hugely. Fitting an MWD to most Amarr setups is just a no go given its downside (yes I know some setups use them anyway but by-and-large MWD is gimping an Amarr ship too much). Further, every other race has ability to fight reasonably well with no cap. Amarr cap out and that's it...they can do nothing.
Note when thinking about Amarr you need to consider the whole package. It is not any one thing. It is all these things.
CCP is buffing some ships and believe me I am happy about that. But this is not a solution, it is a band-aid. There are some real, fundamental issues with Amarr ships that need addressing and so far are seeming to be avoided.
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Sara Roeburn
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:56:00 -
[234]
\o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ Caldari railboats getting some love to.
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2008.02.02 18:11:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h lotsa words....
Nobody said that these were the only changes. There will be more. -----sig-starts-here------
Witty stuff goes here |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:20:00 -
[236]
Edited by: Goumindong on 02/02/2008 19:20:49
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
As I said before:
As things stand today, assuming you had L5 skills in everything, is there a single sub-cap Amarr ship you would take out for anything rather than opting for a different ship (excepting Fleet Commands which each have a particular niche to fill)?
The answer is no.
And you were wrong before, even ignoring the Guardian and Curse.
The Geddon and Abaddon make/made great Pulse boats. Great as in "The ideal ship in multiple battleship small gang engagements". They arent the best in that role in that they do everything everyone else does but better, but they have the attributes that are most valued in the highest quantities. The Abaddon is positivly deadly with Tachyons
Now, there were holes, and there were problems with some ships where they needed to be competitive. But they did not need an uber sniper.
Ill say this again. The Apoc is overpowered with a 37.5% optimal bonus, if you dont think its overpowered then you clearly dont know what is good for sniping engagements
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Vrabac
Amarr BALKAN EXPRESS
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:31:00 -
[237]
Just want to say how happy I am hearing individual ships are getting attention, also amarr EW. IMHO problem is in ships, not in damage types etc. So I'd like to ask devs to think about it, to leave the resists alone and instead focus on the ships that are useless. As some others said, Amarr battleships are the kings of gang fights when damage dealing is considered. Lowering everyone's EM resist isnt needed. Omen isnt a bad ship because it does EM damage, its a bad ship because at maximum gank setup with no pg left for any sort of tank it barely does 400dps, while Vexor and Thorax easily surpass 600 mark. Same goes for Maller, Prophecy, Apoc and so on- they are bad ships because they do little damage, not because of the damage type and have nothing to compensate. They would be just as bad doing explosive or kinetic.
Boost tracking disruptors so they are actually useful in crippling a ship. Keep in mind missile and drone boats are immune as well as turret boats being still able to use everything at normal level except of guns: drones, webs, scrams, they are all unaffected as opposed to ships exposed to jammers and damps. Make tracking disruptors *CRIPPLE* a turret boat's ability to deal damage and amarr recons and EW t1 ships might actually start using them as intended.
Boost individual ships as you seem to be doing, Omen, Zealot and Apoc all needed this and I'm really happy about it. Pay some attention to ther sub par ships and make them useful in some way.
But please please leave resists alone.
Thanks.
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Ruciza
Minmatar The Feminists
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:49:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
- Amarr are supposed to own the middle ground but fights almost never happen there.
To the contrary, almost all gang fights happen there. Gangs are not occupying a point in space, but are always spread out.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.02 20:01:00 -
[239]
People making graphs about Apoc sniping. Try remember most people wil still fit Mega beams. It seems it was balanced with them in mind.
Also i am 100% discordadt with the. No one sacrifices any damage for tank. Being DD proof is very valuable.
And I have been called primary several times in fleet engagements and the buffer HP saved my skin long enough to me to warp out.
That is the sole reason why I think rokh is still the bes t sniper. Can hit 230km and have 120k(around 100k without rigs) effective HP and have a MWD. That is about 10 second time to flee while being hit by 30 snipers. Even 5-7 secodns is only what you need to warp off. And that is worth a LOT more than dealign 5% more DPS.
------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Phrixus Zephyr
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 20:09:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Then in your world EVE will never be balanced, the weakest ships in a class will get boosted to best at some role, then eventually something will be worst and outclassed by all the others so it will require boosting.
No, because as a race amarr didnt have as many useful ships. Now we have a couple and some are better then other races ships with small margins. You just assume everyone has every race skill and guns trained. Amarr is now getting competetive and its about time.
Amarr was the best race for a long time, so much so it was overpowered. Caldari had their cruise kessies and double mwd Ravens. Gallente had their Dominix hayday. Minmatar are still coming down from their Vaga reign.
What annoys me the most is everyones attitudes to ships changes. Most of the reasoning is 'Its their turn' 'been waiting for a boost for X years'. If changes keep happening like this Eve is going to go round and round in circles.
I would like changes that wern't so ******* heavy handed for once.
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