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Durethia
Momentum. The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.02.03 18:47:00 -
[1]
First, the Zealot. The only people who complain about the zealot, are n00bs with poor gunnery skills. There was never anything wrong with lasers, and the Zealot was a strong second place to the most damaging HAC in game, only under the Deimos itself.
With nearly 90% resists on EM and Thermal, Pulse lasers (assuming the pilot has decent Gunnery skills) will still smoothly eat the armor or shields as though there were no resists using any other weapons. I don't know WHY CCP thinks lasers or any ships using lasers need a boost. Lasers are too damn powerful as it is, with decent Gunnery skills. They are the only weapons that don't seem to be much affected by resistance tanking... and this is a fact. And, lowering the EM resistance of all armor tankers? Welcome to Amarr Online now, why fly anything else? It wasn't enough that 80% EM resistance was virtually no tank at all for lasers, now it's going to be even lower!!!! BTW, if this is to encourage people to fit EM hardeners, I never fit hardeners period, and this won't make me think otherwise.
The Deimos. One less low slot? Who ever thought this was a good idea? The Deimos is consistantly primaried among HACs, even back when the ship was thought to generally suck. It is a SUPPORT vessel, as ALL Gallente gun boats are. The Extra Mid slot will only gimp this ship, who NEEDS as much of a tank as possible just to survive the abuse it often takes during engagements. Why have an extra mid slot? Cap booster? Train up your Engineering skills... jeez. This change truely sucks.
CCP both of these changes really sucks, and makes no sense. No one was whining about the Deimos after you guys "fixed" it. Why touch it now? The only people who cried like a baby about lasers were those with only 2 million sp in Gunnery. The ones with nearly 10 mil, always had a smile on their face as nothing could effectively tank lasers....
Please, these changes need to be reconsidered. The Deimos will suck balls, the Zealot will be an uber solo pwn mobile.... it's senseless!!!
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wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.03 18:52:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Durethia
First, the Zealot. The only people who complain about the zealot, are n00bs with poor gunnery skills. There was never anything wrong with lasers, and the Zealot was a strong second place to the most damaging HAC in game, only under the Deimos itself.
what
transformers!! do u see them ? |
xHalcyonx
Amarr Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.02.03 18:55:00 -
[3]
There was something inherently wrong with the Zealot. It's primary role was to gank, but with the advent of the Sacrilege Mk II no one wanted to fly a ship with paper armor and sub-par DPS for ganking.
Now that flaw has been remedied so please stop trolling with your poorly constructed accuasations namely "The only people who complain about the zealot, are n00bs with poor gunnery skills," which is just simply not true, had you done any research on the topic you would see that.
What you see as right does not make it correct to the general concensus. ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! |
Kristoffer
Amarr Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2008.02.03 18:58:00 -
[4]
I can't tell if hes trolling or being serious.
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Durethia
Momentum. The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kristoffer I can't tell if hes trolling or being serious.
Not trolling, just being serious. If you had a problem with Lasers, you have crappy Gunnery skills. Period. Zealot doesn't need an additional turret slot, Armor tankers don't need lessened EM resistance, and the damn Deimos certainly doesn't need a Mid slot at a sacrifice of a low slot.
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Last Wolf
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:02:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Last Wolf on 03/02/2008 19:03:30 you DO realize that the Omen(The zealot's Tech 1 version) in its current state on TQ Does 95% of the DPS of a zealot? How is that balanced.
Also, as far as the resistance changes. Minmatar got boosted way more than Amarr did. EMP ammo vs anything, and barrage vs shield tankers.
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Durethia
Momentum. The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:02:00 -
[7]
Originally by: xHalcyonx
What you see as right does not make it correct to the general concensus.
To hell with general concensus, more than a handful of great minds have always claimed that those who veer from general consensus are almost ALWAYS correct.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:03:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Goumindong on 03/02/2008 19:05:30 The Zealot was the second least damagning Hac in the game.
You're trolling.
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: xHalcyonx
What you see as right does not make it correct to the general concensus.
To hell with general concensus, more than a handful of great minds have always claimed that those who veer from general consensus are almost ALWAYS correct.
Link Please.
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xHalcyonx
Amarr Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: xHalcyonx
What you see as right does not make it correct to the general concensus.
To hell with general concensus, more than a handful of great minds have always claimed that those who veer from general consensus are almost ALWAYS correct.
Case in point is that even people with very good gunnery skills have complained about the lack of gank on the gank oriented Zealot. ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! |
Last Wolf
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Goumindong The Zealot was the second least damagning Hac in the game.
You're trolling.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but off the top of my head going from Most damaging to least
Diemos Ishtar Munnin Sac Vagabond Zealot Cerberus Eagle.
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Krows
Caldari Resource Reallocators Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:07:00 -
[11]
Obvious troll is obvious. I'm starting to realize I only post, "stop trolling" in ships and modules because every other thread is a troll.
The internet is a giant bridge.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Last Wolf
Originally by: Goumindong The Zealot was the second least damagning Hac in the game.
You're trolling.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but off the top of my head going from Most damaging to least
Diemos Ishtar Munnin Sac Vagabond Zealot Cerberus Eagle.
Before the change the Cerberus did more DPS than the Zealot
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xHalcyonx
Amarr Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:10:00 -
[13]
Thread #1 Thread #2 Those are the threads of Zealot dissent that come to my mind right now. There were many more but I didn't post in them. ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! |
Durethia
Momentum. The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:22:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 03/02/2008 19:05:30 The Zealot was the second least damagning Hac in the game.
You're trolling.
Let's not claim who's trolling based off of your own lack of experience. The Zealot was never the second least damaging HAC in this game. The Vagabond was, before the changes to the Sacrilege were made. After that change, well, the Vagabond is the least damaging HAC now. Zealot nowhere near the bottom, never was. In a Deimos, you can permanently and indefinately tank an assault of two highly skilled Vagabonds ( I do it all the time, and if you doubt me I'll show you. ); which with the same fit can not perform as such with any other pair of HACs in game, including the Zealot with poor gunnery skills. A solo Zealot, can beat the tank, with relative ease and swiftness, so there's your gank with EM and Thermal both being above 80%.
The Zealot isn't so much a "Gank" ship, not when compared to other Gank ships like the Deimos. The Zealot is supposed to provide considerable DPS at mid-range. And it does fill that role very well. It's because of this characteristic, that many have traditionally considered the Zealot as a better gang support ship than the Deimos. Because it can deliver almost as much damage at a safer distance away from target.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Durethia Edited by: Durethia on 03/02/2008 18:59:01 First, the Zealot. The only people who complain about the zealot, are n00bs with poor gunnery skills. There was never anything wrong with lasers, and the Zealot was a strong second place to the most damaging HAC in game, only under the Deimos itself.
Please dont supply any more ganja to this man. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:32:00 -
[16]
Quote:
The Zealot isn't so much a "Gank" ship, not when compared to other Gank ships like the Deimos. The Zealot is supposed to provide considerable DPS at mid-range. And it does fill that role very well. It's because of this characteristic, that many have traditionally considered the Zealot as a better gang support ship than the Deimos. Because it can deliver almost as much damage at a safer distance away from target.
Zealot Bonuses: Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use and 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire per level
Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage per level
Deimos Bonuses: Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% less penalty to max capacitor capacity for Microwarpdrive usage per level
Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff and 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level
Both ship get range bonuses and damage bonuses. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:37:00 -
[17]
This OP has logic holes large enough for me to drive a freighter through.
Gotta' be a troll. ----------------
Originally by: "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.
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J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:41:00 -
[18]
Edited by: J Valkor on 03/02/2008 19:43:44 Highs - 5x Ion Blaster 2's. 1x Named Nos Mids - 1x Cap Recharger 2, 1x Named Web, 1x MWD 2 Lows - 4x EANM 2's. 1x Medium Repper 2, 1x DC 2. Rigs - 1x CCC, 1x Semi-conductor Memory Cell
Huh. That is interesting. How does this (Durethia's) fit compare to the typical Deimos set up? Would he be correct in saying that in this setup a Zealot would indeed be better than his ship?
Edit - A better question: wouldn't the Deimos changes augment his fit?
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Durethia Edited by: Durethia on 03/02/2008 18:59:01 First, the Zealot. The only people who complain about the zealot, are n00bs with poor gunnery skills. There was never anything wrong with lasers, and the Zealot was a strong second place to the most damaging HAC in game, only under the Deimos itself.
With nearly 90% resists on EM and Thermal, Pulse lasers (assuming the pilot has decent Gunnery skills) will still smoothly eat the armor or shields as though there were no resists using any other weapons. I don't know WHY CCP thinks lasers or any ships using lasers need a boost. Lasers are too damn powerful as it is, with decent Gunnery skills. They are the only weapons that don't seem to be much affected by resistance tanking... and this is a fact. And, lowering the EM resistance of all armor tankers? Welcome to Amarr Online now, why fly anything else? It wasn't enough that 80% EM resistance was virtually no tank at all for lasers, now it's going to be even lower!!!! BTW, if this is to encourage people to fit EM hardeners, I never fit hardeners period, and this won't make me think otherwise.
The Deimos. One less low slot? Who ever thought this was a good idea? The Deimos is consistantly primaried among HACs, even back when the ship was thought to generally suck. It is a SUPPORT vessel, as ALL Gallente gun boats are. The Extra Mid slot will only gimp this ship, who NEEDS as much of a tank as possible just to survive the abuse it often takes during engagements. Why have an extra mid slot? Cap booster? Train up your Engineering skills... jeez. This change truely sucks.
CCP both of these changes really sucks, and makes no sense. No one was whining about the Deimos after you guys "fixed" it. Why touch it now? The only people who cried like a baby about lasers were those with only 2 million sp in Gunnery. The ones with nearly 10 mil, always had a smile on their face as nothing could effectively tank lasers....
Please, these changes need to be reconsidered. The Deimos will suck balls, the Zealot will be an uber solo pwn mobile.... it's senseless!!!
Oh, and I wonder, are you guys going to shift the lessened point value for EM resistance and put that on Explosive damage for the Armor guys? Probably not, as none of this makes sense anyways....
Noobs?Wow you see i have maxed gunnery skills for the zealot bar hac 5 and pulse special 5,i know how to use the ship but it just gets outclassed by others so i just ask myself.."why fly the zealot if there are better ships for its role?"Im sorry but obviously you dont understand lasers,and the reason your whining is because a amarrian whooped your ass.
As for lasers overpowered,hell no,they get less dps then blasters and more range,more cap use...The only reason ships like the geddon get good dps is because it has 3 heatsinks.
Now for the deimos,it in my mind always needed a cap booster,now that it has one that gives it the ability to keep its cap alive whilst shooting.
Sir,your an idiot and dont post again. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth |
Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:54:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kristoffer I can't tell if hes trolling or being serious.
Same here, i was wondering if i should shoot down his bad arguments, but then i saw other people do it for me.
so: Troll much op?
Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions!
I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them. |
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.03 19:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dristra
Originally by: Kristoffer I can't tell if hes trolling or being serious.
Same here, i was wondering if i should shoot down his bad arguments, but then i saw other people do it for me.
so: Troll much op?
Me either,but i always post as if the op is serious because the forum is usually used to demonstrate one's opinion and someone just saying"i was trolling"isnt good enough for me and thus i still think hes an idiot This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth |
Xequecal
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Posted - 2008.02.03 20:00:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Durethia First, the Zealot. The only people who complain about the zealot, are n00bs with poor gunnery skills. There was never anything wrong with lasers, and the Zealot was a strong second place to the most damaging HAC in game, only under the Deimos itself.
Hahahahahahahaha. Second place damaging HAC? What about the Muninn, Sacrilege, Vagabond, Cerberus, and Ishtar? Wow, you're utterly clueless. I should also point out that a rail Muninn was better than the Zealot at EVERYTHING. More DPS at all ranges, better range, better alpha strike, chooses damage type.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.03 20:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Durethia
Let's not claim who's trolling based off of your own lack of experience. The Zealot was never the second least damaging HAC in this game. The Vagabond was, before the changes to the Sacrilege were made. After that change, well, the Vagabond is the least damaging HAC now. Zealot nowhere near the bottom, never was. In a Deimos, you can permanently and indefinately tank an assault of two highly skilled Vagabonds ( I do it all the time, and if you doubt me I'll show you. ); which with the same fit can not perform as such with any other pair of HACs in game, including the Zealot with poor gunnery skills.
Quoting comedy.
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LordChaos
Amarr Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.03 20:27:00 -
[24]
IM GETTING A BOOST :)
MUHAHAHAA
was too lazy to train for a sac lol guess i will get me a zealot :) The Master Of Chaos
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.03 20:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 03/02/2008 19:05:30 The Zealot was the second least damagning Hac in the game.
You're trolling.
Let's not claim who's trolling based off of your own lack of experience. The Zealot was never the second least damaging HAC in this game. The Vagabond was, before the changes to the Sacrilege were made. After that change, well, the Vagabond is the least damaging HAC now. Zealot nowhere near the bottom, never was. In a Deimos, you can permanently and indefinately tank an assault of two highly skilled Vagabonds ( I do it all the time, and if you doubt me I'll show you. ); which with the same fit can not perform as such with any other pair of HACs in game, including the Zealot with poor gunnery skills. A solo Zealot, can beat the tank, with relative ease and swiftness, so there's your gank with EM and Thermal both being above 80%.
The Zealot isn't so much a "Gank" ship, not when compared to other Gank ships like the Deimos. The Zealot is supposed to provide considerable DPS at mid-range. And it does fill that role very well. It's because of this characteristic, that many have traditionally considered the Zealot as a better gang support ship than the Deimos. Because it can deliver almost as much damage at a safer distance away from target.
A vagabond with 5x 220s(barrage)1x heavy missile(dg havoc or lesser faction doesnt matter)vs zealot with 4x mega pulse turrets(conflag)and the vaga has 5x hobgoblins=
vaga=365. zealot=345.
This is LONGRANGE vaga ammo vs SHORTRANGE zealot ammo and the zealot even has a heatsink..Please get your numbers right in the future. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth |
Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.03 21:02:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Grimpak on 03/02/2008 21:02:10
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 03/02/2008 19:05:30 The Zealot was the second least damagning Hac in the game.
You're trolling.
Let's not claim who's trolling based off of your own lack of experience. The Zealot was never the second least damaging HAC in this game. The Vagabond was, before the changes to the Sacrilege were made. After that change, well, the Vagabond is the least damaging HAC now. Zealot nowhere near the bottom, never was. In a Deimos, you can permanently and indefinately tank an assault of two highly skilled Vagabonds ( I do it all the time, and if you doubt me I'll show you. ); which with the same fit can not perform as such with any other pair of HACs in game, including the Zealot with poor gunnery skills. A solo Zealot, can beat the tank, with relative ease and swiftness, so there's your gank with EM and Thermal both being above 80%.
The Zealot isn't so much a "Gank" ship, not when compared to other Gank ships like the Deimos. The Zealot is supposed to provide considerable DPS at mid-range. And it does fill that role very well. It's because of this characteristic, that many have traditionally considered the Zealot as a better gang support ship than the Deimos. Because it can deliver almost as much damage at a safer distance away from target.
A vagabond with 5x 220s(barrage)1x heavy missile(dg havoc or lesser faction doesnt matter)vs zealot with 4x mega pulse turrets(conflag)and the vaga has 5x hobgoblins=
vaga=365. zealot=345.
This is LONGRANGE vaga ammo vs SHORTRANGE zealot ammo and the zealot even has a heatsink..Please get your numbers right in the future.
being devil's advocate here now.
the vaga does that DPS at what range? and compare that to the zealot's range.
while I welcome the changes to the zealot, I must say that DPS figures are just a part of the argument, and not the whole. ---
planetary interaction idea! |
L70Rogue
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Posted - 2008.02.03 21:21:00 -
[27]
Edited by: L70Rogue on 03/02/2008 21:21:43
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 03/02/2008 21:02:10
Originally by: goodby4u
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 03/02/2008 19:05:30 The Zealot was the second least damagning Hac in the game.
You're trolling.
Let's not claim who's trolling based off of your own lack of experience. The Zealot was never the second least damaging HAC in this game. The Vagabond was, before the changes to the Sacrilege were made. After that change, well, the Vagabond is the least damaging HAC now. Zealot nowhere near the bottom, never was. In a Deimos, you can permanently and indefinately tank an assault of two highly skilled Vagabonds ( I do it all the time, and if you doubt me I'll show you. ); which with the same fit can not perform as such with any other pair of HACs in game, including the Zealot with poor gunnery skills. A solo Zealot, can beat the tank, with relative ease and swiftness, so there's your gank with EM and Thermal both being above 80%.
The Zealot isn't so much a "Gank" ship, not when compared to other Gank ships like the Deimos. The Zealot is supposed to provide considerable DPS at mid-range. And it does fill that role very well. It's because of this characteristic, that many have traditionally considered the Zealot as a better gang support ship than the Deimos. Because it can deliver almost as much damage at a safer distance away from target.
A vagabond with 5x 220s(barrage)1x heavy missile(dg havoc or lesser faction doesnt matter)vs zealot with 4x mega pulse turrets(conflag)and the vaga has 5x hobgoblins=
vaga=365. zealot=345.
This is LONGRANGE vaga ammo vs SHORTRANGE zealot ammo and the zealot even has a heatsink..Please get your numbers right in the future.
being devil's advocate here now.
the vaga does that DPS at what range? and compare that to the zealot's range.
while I welcome the changes to the zealot, I must say that DPS figures are just a part of the argument, and not the whole.
Actually a Vagbond's DPS is MUCH higher: 536 DPS with Republican Fleet EMP, one heavy assault launcher, 2x gyrostab at 6100 m/s
The zealot sucks in comparison even with a 5th turret.
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.02.03 21:22:00 -
[28]
Also, the damage of the zealot when it is using heavy pulses instead BS mega pulses might be interesting
Anyway, that the zealot has a smaller damage potential than the vaga is quite obvious.
- both ships have the same dps bonuses - a 425mm AC does more max damage than a heavy pulse laser - the zealot has 4 turrets - the vaga has 5 and a 25m¦ dronebay
The vaga has to get into webrange for that of cource which isn't that a bright idea vs many (but not all) targets. However so does the zealot. And contrary to popular opinion it isn't that a good idea to get it into webrange either.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.03 21:26:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Grimpak
being devil's advocate here now.
the vaga does that DPS at what range? and compare that to the zealot's range.
while I welcome the changes to the zealot, I must say that DPS figures are just a part of the argument, and not the whole.
A vagabond with 2 ambit extensions, 180mm AC's, 0 damage mods, and Barrage, does 215 DPS at 31.4km. At 17km it will do 298 dps with the same.
A zealot did 221 with 0 damage mods to 34km.
Adding damage mods benefit the Zealot more, but a Vagabond was still out-damaging it to about 20km.
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Volzir
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.03 21:29:00 -
[30]
Sarcastic Troll is Sarcastic.
Lasers are the absolute worst weapons in the game. The zealot changes and the Deimos changes have absolutely nothing to do with that though. Until the Zealot/Omen sees the Dev's actually fix what's wrong with it then it'll still be nearly useless.
Member of the second best race in the galaxy. |
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