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xxxak
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Posted - 2008.02.04 19:40:00 -
[1]
So apparently on test server a Ferox now has 6 guns (instead of 5). However, it still has an extremely small drone bay and no ship-damage bonus. Rails are very weak guns to begin with.
Thus, is it fair to say that the Ferxo will still be a second (or third) rate gunship?
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Agent Li
Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.02.04 19:52:00 -
[2]
I already like mine. It doesn't hurt to add the extra rail for me.
It's more useful as a cheap command ship, especially on group mining ops.
So it's not "useless".
I can't name too many ships that in game, in PVP, that I would recommend flying alone. ------------------
Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire. |
Erim Solfara
Amarr House of Solfara
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Posted - 2008.02.04 19:58:00 -
[3]
I think it's brought it more in line with the equivalent ships of the others races, Brutix aside, the other tier 1 battlecruisers are all tank orientated, without much offensive firepower, the cyclone recieves an RoF bonus, but has one less turret than both the Prophecy and now the Ferox. These ships to me feel more like the warlink platforms they should be, designed to supplement a small fleet rather than lay down the hurt. The Brutix for some reason has one more turret than any other tier 1 BC, and a damage bonus to boot, but limited powergrid, so maybe that's fairer?
A new tool in the fight for balance? |
Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2008.02.04 19:59:00 -
[4]
I seriously doubt its usefulness will increase that much. The optimal bonus it gets is in itself inferior to the damage bonus that Brutix gets, in addition to which Brutix has 7 turret hardpoints. I don't see why Ferox did not originally have 7 hardpoints. Also, it has fitting issues since rails use up a lot of PG. Drake already made Ferox obsolete, and I fear this will do little to restore its usefulness. Nevertheless, it is certainly a step in the right direction, if only too conservative to matter. --- CEO
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
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Posted - 2008.02.04 20:02:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 04/02/2008 20:03:31 Erim nailed it. The Brutix can do more raw damage because it has 7 damage bonused weapons, but to mount a gang warfare module it has to drop a bonused weapon, whereas all of the other tier 1 battlecruisers get to drop an unbonused weapon for one.
In other words, the Brutix loses more DPS to fit a gang module than any other tier 1 battlecruiser.
As for the new Ferox, it will certainly become a better anti-spport sniper, but it will likely still be inferior to other battlecruisers for anything else. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.02.04 20:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jin Entres I seriously doubt its usefulness will increase that much. The optimal bonus it gets is in itself inferior to the damage bonus that Brutix gets, in addition to which Brutix has 7 turret hardpoints. I don't see why Ferox did not originally have 7 hardpoints. Also, it has fitting issues since rails use up a lot of PG. Drake already made Ferox obsolete, and I fear this will do little to restore its usefulness. Nevertheless, it is certainly a step in the right direction, if only too conservative to matter.
Fail.
Ferox range is what makes him unique amongst the BC. And now it can do so with 6 guns.
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xxxak
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Posted - 2008.02.04 20:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Jin Entres I seriously doubt its usefulness will increase that much. The optimal bonus it gets is in itself inferior to the damage bonus that Brutix gets, in addition to which Brutix has 7 turret hardpoints. I don't see why Ferox did not originally have 7 hardpoints. Also, it has fitting issues since rails use up a lot of PG. Drake already made Ferox obsolete, and I fear this will do little to restore its usefulness. Nevertheless, it is certainly a step in the right direction, if only too conservative to matter.
Fail.
Ferox range is what makes him unique amongst the BC. And now it can do so with 6 guns.
How do you use a ranged Ferox effectively. I am asking seriously, not sarcastically.
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.02.04 20:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: xxxak
How do you use a ranged Ferox effectively. I am asking seriously, not sarcastically.
Sure.
There was a thread with exact setups last week that i posted in also. I dont have exact setups with me atm, but basically it involves dedicating most of your slots at pewpewing.
like :
high : 5x 250mm (6x soon), 3x(2x) missiles that fits after everything else is fit
med: 10mn mwd II, sens boost II, track comp II, 2x invuln field (maybe remove one and fit a med booster or w-e fits)
low : tracking enhancer, 3x mag stabs
You need the T2 spike ammo to make it snipe well. Else, you still can get good range and dmg with antimatter
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
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Posted - 2008.02.04 20:21:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 04/02/2008 20:21:01 I have tested the following setup out on SiSi. I took it out ratting and have taken down triple 1.85mil Angel Cartel BS spawns with it without dropping below 30% shields:
[Ferox, 'Ratting Ferox] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II x 3 Power Diagnostic System II
10MN Afterburner II Explosion Dampening Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II x 2
200mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x 6 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile
Warrior II x5
The rigs were not omitted, I didn't use any. Sit back and orbit at 20km, use the drones to take out any supporting ships. It's just barely cap stable with my skills so no need to worry about toggling the AB or your guns.
Of course, a Drake firing Havocs is far better, but at least you can do something like this in a Ferox now whereas before I doubt you could. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Stuart Price
Caldari Havoc Inc Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.02.04 21:24:00 -
[10]
Railcruisers are actually a decent deterrent to nanoships due to their ability to use high damage ammo at decent ranges. With good skills and the correct setup, you should be able to track more than well enough, the trick is to be well tanked enough to make sure you force them to run or kill them before they take you down.
Different nanoships would require different tactics (against a Vagabond for example, just shoot it and tracking disrupt it for optimal range, with an Ishtar, web and shoot the drones) but it can be done. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
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Ral Ulgur
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.02.04 21:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 04/02/2008 20:21:01 I have tested the following setup out on SiSi. I took it out ratting and have taken down triple 1.85mil Angel Cartel BS spawns with it without dropping below 30% shields:
[Ferox, 'Ratting Ferox] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II x 3 Power Diagnostic System II
10MN Afterburner II Explosion Dampening Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II x 2
200mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x 6 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile
Warrior II x5
The rigs were not omitted, I didn't use any. Sit back and orbit at 20km, use the drones to take out any supporting ships. It's just barely cap stable with my skills so no need to worry about toggling the AB or your guns.
Of course, a Drake firing Havocs is far better, but at least you can do something like this in a Ferox now whereas before I doubt you could.
If it's barely cap stable, but not really, you could swap out one of the 200mm gauss for another arbalest HML...
just kidding of course... mostly... but couldn't resist.
On a a more serious note, I love the extra turret, it give the ship a reason to be in the datebase besides merely lending it's model to the caldari command ships.
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.02.04 21:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Stuart Price Railcruisers are actually a decent deterrent to nanoships due to their ability to use high damage ammo at decent ranges. With good skills and the correct setup, you should be able to track more than well enough, the trick is to be well tanked enough to make sure you force them to run or kill them before they take you down.
Different nanoships would require different tactics (against a Vagabond for example, just shoot it and tracking disrupt it for optimal range, with an Ishtar, web and shoot the drones) but it can be done.
Here's a little secret: load faction antimatter and tracking scripts in the tracking computers, and fly on manual. Railboats can actually hit pretty well at ranges where close-range ships can't shoot back. It's definitely a tactic for lag-free situations, but on SiSi in a Vulture I've taken down a close-orbit Vagabond before he could get through the shields on my un-tanked fleet sniper.
This is of course why you fit a MWD at all times. Without a MWD you're just screwed, but with one, you can actually disrupt the orbit of a nano ship enough to drop his transversal and nail him.
The Ishtar or Sacrilege are probably a far bigger problem than the Vagabond, actually. The Vagabond has a tradeoff of speed vs. damage, and isn't tanked all that well if you can actually hit it. The other two don't have this problem, and you're very unlikely to break their tank before you die.
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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2008.02.04 21:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Jin Entres I seriously doubt its usefulness will increase that much. The optimal bonus it gets is in itself inferior to the damage bonus that Brutix gets, in addition to which Brutix has 7 turret hardpoints. I don't see why Ferox did not originally have 7 hardpoints. Also, it has fitting issues since rails use up a lot of PG. Drake already made Ferox obsolete, and I fear this will do little to restore its usefulness. Nevertheless, it is certainly a step in the right direction, if only too conservative to matter.
Fail.
Ferox range is what makes him unique amongst the BC. And now it can do so with 6 guns.
Oh really? Anything up to a 100km is done better by Drake and Brutix. Anything over and you should be using a Rokh. After the TC and SB nerfs Ferox performs even worse. --- CEO
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.02.04 22:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jin Entres Oh really? Anything up to a 100km is done better by Drake and Brutix. Anything over and you should be using a Rokh. After the TC and SB nerfs Ferox performs even worse.
What he said. The Ferox is moderately useful while you train for an Eagle (or Vulture, if it gets the 6th turret to keep up), but the Ferox just doesn't have the range to be a true sniper. Unlike the Drake -> Nighthawk/Cerberus -> Raven chain, the railboats are more like Ferox ------------------------------------> Vulture --> Eagle --> Rokh.
So it's still a weak ship that you want to get out of as fast as possible, but at least now it's "get out of it and into a better Caldari railboat" not "get out of it and train another race".
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.02.04 22:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Jin Entres Oh really? Anything up to a 100km is done better by Drake and Brutix. Anything over and you should be using a Rokh. After the TC and SB nerfs Ferox performs even worse.
What he said. The Ferox is moderately useful while you train for an Eagle (or Vulture, if it gets the 6th turret to keep up), but the Ferox just doesn't have the range to be a true sniper. Unlike the Drake -> Nighthawk/Cerberus -> Raven chain, the railboats are more like Ferox ------------------------------------> Vulture --> Eagle --> Rokh.
So it's still a weak ship that you want to get out of as fast as possible, but at least now it's "get out of it and into a better Caldari railboat" not "get out of it and train another race".
Oh geez. Both of you cant read ?
In the BC class, it outranges by like 50% all the others.
Being able to fit medium rails T2 doesnt mean you have caldari cruisers V or that you can use large rails T2, which is my case and which is also the reason why i say its fine.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.02.04 22:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jin Entres
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Jin Entres I seriously doubt its usefulness will increase that much. The optimal bonus it gets is in itself inferior to the damage bonus that Brutix gets, in addition to which Brutix has 7 turret hardpoints. I don't see why Ferox did not originally have 7 hardpoints. Also, it has fitting issues since rails use up a lot of PG. Drake already made Ferox obsolete, and I fear this will do little to restore its usefulness. Nevertheless, it is certainly a step in the right direction, if only too conservative to matter.
Fail.
Ferox range is what makes him unique amongst the BC. And now it can do so with 6 guns.
Oh really? Anything up to a 100km is done better by Drake and Brutix. Anything over and you should be using a Rokh. After the TC and SB nerfs Ferox performs even worse.
The Drake can't really operate in those last 20km there though.
I think the ONLY thing that this changes is it gives you an incentive to use a warfare link mod since that one heavy launcher is not going to significantly effect your damage output anyway.
The Ferox is a ship that needs help, and this WILL help it fufill it's role as a gunboat. When fitted for sniping you aren't going to get loads of DPS out of the thing but you do get damage at a very respectable range for a ship of this class.
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
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Posted - 2008.02.04 22:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jin Entres
Oh really? Anything up to a 100km is done better by Drake and Brutix. Anything over and you should be using a Rokh. After the TC and SB nerfs Ferox performs even worse.
Actually, after the TC and SB nerf, the Ferox became a better sniper relative to the Brutix because the Brutix has to use more modules to make up the difference in turret/locking range.
That's not to say that the Ferox became a better sniper than the Brutix, just that its performance relative to it improved. Seven turrets and a damage bonus is hard to trump with range bonuses. The missile damage helps out to 70km or so, but it's not in the spirit of a true sniper ship.
Adding the 6th turret will have the same effect: it will improve the Ferox relative to the Brutix, but the Brutix will still likely be better overall. If the Ferox got a 7th turret, it could be comparable to the Brutix because it could trade in range for damage with fairly equal parity. And it would make a much scarier blaster boat to boot. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.02.04 22:55:00 -
[18]
6 is still better as 5, but not enough. If they gave it 7 turret (and no matter how many launcher) hardpoints, then it would actually be quite ok.
1|2|3|4|5. |
Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.02.04 23:01:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Originally by: Jin Entres
Oh really? Anything up to a 100km is done better by Drake and Brutix. Anything over and you should be using a Rokh. After the TC and SB nerfs Ferox performs even worse.
Actually, after the TC and SB nerf, the Ferox became a better sniper relative to the Brutix because the Brutix has to use more modules to make up the difference in turret/locking range.
That's not to say that the Ferox became a better sniper than the Brutix, just that its performance relative to it improved. Seven turrets and a damage bonus is hard to trump with range bonuses. The missile damage helps out to 70km or so, but it's not in the spirit of a true sniper ship.
Adding the 6th turret will have the same effect: it will improve the Ferox relative to the Brutix, but the Brutix will still likely be better overall. If the Ferox got a 7th turret, it could be comparable to the Brutix because it could trade in range for damage with fairly equal parity. And it would make a much scarier blaster boat to boot.
Using blasters the Brutix would eat the Ferox alive even if it had 8 turret hardpoints.
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LordThyGod
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Posted - 2008.02.04 23:09:00 -
[20]
the ferox is pretty much a big desty, eating up horrds of smaller ships. It's a fleet ship, designed to fill in gaps in fleet defenses.
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
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Posted - 2008.02.05 00:27:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lorz0r
Using blasters the Brutix would eat the Ferox alive even if it had 8 turret hardpoints.
I agree completely. When I said:
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
And it would make a much scarier blaster boat to boot.
I meant scarier than it is now, not scarier than the Brutix. Damage always trumps optimal for close-range weapons. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2008.02.05 00:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: xxxak
How do you use a ranged Ferox effectively. I am asking seriously, not sarcastically.
Sure.
There was a thread with exact setups last week that i posted in also. I dont have exact setups with me atm, but basically it involves dedicating most of your slots at pewpewing.
like :
high : 5x 250mm (6x soon), 3x(2x) missiles that fits after everything else is fit
med: 10mn mwd II, sens boost II, track comp II, 2x invuln field (maybe remove one and fit a med booster or w-e fits)
low : tracking enhancer, 3x mag stabs
You need the T2 spike ammo to make it snipe well. Else, you still can get good range and dmg with antimatter
Won't fit.
6x 250mm II is using 1274 grid, out of your 1343. Need an RCU II to get the MWD on there, and possibly even another one to get a launcher on too. (OK, so you might get an assault launcher on, or a frigate sized one or something) -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2008.02.05 02:57:00 -
[23]
I'm pretty sure CCP originally expected people to fit the Ferox with a mix of weapons systems at a time where they thought it'd be cool.
It might not be strong but you can now fit 6 guns making it more worthwhile to fit damage mods than before. (6 guns and a gang link perhaps )
And regarding powergrid Im sure CCP expects it to be packing a mix of PDS and damage mods to support an active tank also giving it a bit more Powergrid.
And comparing to the Brutix will never really end up anywhere good... That thing is just mean... more guns, damage bonus and more/bigger drones Oh no it's not a good T1 commandship - I'm a nice guy!!
But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored... |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.02.05 03:17:00 -
[24]
It's still sub par, but at least now it's not just comically bad.
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J Valkor
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.02.05 04:45:00 -
[25]
It becomes sexier, yes.
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