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Cogwheel
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Posted - 2008.02.06 21:28:00 -
[1]
This was originally a response to Bouncer Ricdic's thread.
Anyone want to have a broader though much less formal general challenge? No audits or anything but just a casual competition.
I've always been in love with Eve's economy (especially when compared to other games) so I finally decided to jump back in (I played for a few months back in early 06 but never really got sucked in). The last two patches had some very appealing features. :)
Anyway, I knew I wanted to be a purebred trader from the start and I'm sort of a forum ***** so undoubtedly I stumbled across this thread. I created this character with sort of the opposite idea in mind, except for the fact that I'm essentially a newb.
Rather than limiting myself in every way imaginable skill wise, I put together the best "build" I could come up with (again, as a relative newb). Started out with Trade V, Daytrading IV, Social V, etc. I haven't spent a single isk beyond the 5k inheritance. I did send copies of Contracting and Marketing from my main, but I haven't taken advantage of either...
I also don't want to race to a particular goal. I'd rather just see how far you get in 30 days.
End of day NAV:
Day 01 - 16,780.29 Day 02 - 46,922.39 (PENDING)
The only rule I'm following that I haven't mentioned so far is that I won't leave my chosen "home" system for any trade-related stuff. I'll bop around the stations in my system with the newbie ship, but I won't buy a hauler or anything.
Finally, I'll clarify how my Net Asset Value (NAV) is calculated:
NAV = Wallet + Escrow + Assets
Wallet: The actual cash in my wallet Escrow: ISK tied up in buy orders Assets: The value of all items on hand or in sell orders, determined by my (intended) sell price.
PS: Whoever chose the font this forum uses for code blocks should be summarily executed
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arith danta
Aurora Security The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2008.02.07 00:30:00 -
[2]
I read Bouncer Ricdic's thread and decided to try some trading myself. After 2 weeks and turning 10 million into 150 million, all my corp mates are pestering me for information about how I did it :)
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Avarices Dream
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Posted - 2008.02.07 02:38:00 -
[3]
I'm doing pretty much the same thing.
I'm a father of an eve player. Actually, I started playing in 2006 but realized that the time commitment was too much for my law practice. I gave the account to my son, who became a pirate. I've continued to follow eve, more to have something to talk with him about, as well as check into his account periodically to do the dad thing. I've also been reading the forums to make sure his mouth isn't getting him in too much trouble.
But Ricdic's attempt got me wondering.
I'm doing it slightly differently, I created a Gallente trader char and did the balancing the books mission completely. I started my trading career by buying 200k worth of after burners and tracking computers. Then I sold everything but what I needed to create the perpetual motion machine and never looked back. Here's 4 days of stats.
Day 2 start 1.8 million in cash and orders. Day 2 end 1.875 of cash and orders.
Day 3 end 2.94 million in orders and cash - I made a couple of real kills on skill books. I also set up a minmitar alt and am running her through the balance books mission before placing her in Rens.
Day 4 opens with 3.7 million in orders and cash. Thank you certain weapon profit margin. Ending with 4.8 million in orders and 100k in cash.
My biggest problem now is keeping track of orders and finding things to invest in. I think I've made some big mistakes trying to keep my cash from accumulating. Time will tell.
This is a hell of a lot of fun and I think may have me addicted. My son gave me a double take tonight when I said - no more pew pew for you. He may be on to me.
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Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.07 05:55:00 -
[4]
Good stuff. Secrets out huh?
I only started a few months ago - started with a very meagre sum from the sale of one my PVP command ships. I'm now making more than I ever did in 0.0 ratting or missioning.
Good luck on your project o/
Eve Corp Web Design | Eve Online Addicts |
Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.07 09:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Avarices Dream This is a hell of a lot of fun and I think may have me addicted. My son gave me a double take tonight when I said - no more pew pew for you. He may be on to me.
That made me chuckle.
Eve Corp Web Design | Eve Online Addicts |
Hersheff
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Posted - 2008.02.07 09:38:00 -
[6]
what i can say is ... Go away, there is enough competition as it is.
j/k
and may our buy orders never overlap ~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now, quiet! The're about to announce the lottery numbers... |
Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.02.07 16:38:00 -
[7]
Good Luck!!! I am truely interested in how this turns out since this is basically what I wanted to do, but do not have the time to invest in the research. Considering that you are staying in your home system it will make it a bit easier to figure out what is being used by the new pilots.
P.S. If you would like some suggestions on some equipment that you could look into getting contract hauled to your system, I may have a few ideas that might sell pretty good in the home system that may not typically be available within 3 or 4 jumps of a home system.
____________________________________________________________________________________________ Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider "As me wallet grows so do me balls"
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Cogwheel
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Posted - 2008.02.07 18:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon Good Luck!!! I am truely interested in how this turns out since this is basically what I wanted to do, but do not have the time to invest in the research. Considering that you are staying in your home system it will make it a bit easier to figure out what is being used by the new pilots.
Oh... I didn't mean "home system" as the newbie starter... just whatever trading system I ended up choosing. The hub i went with is definitely close enough to the starter systems that I've got a pretty good position in newbie items, though ;)
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.02.08 00:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cogwheel Oh... I didn't mean "home system" as the newbie starter... just whatever trading system I ended up choosing. The hub i went with is definitely close enough to the starter systems that I've got a pretty good position in newbie items, though ;)
Rgr, I was about to say that would have been awfully limiting.
____________________________________________________________________________________________ Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider "As me wallet grows so do me balls"
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Cogwheel
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Posted - 2008.02.12 02:34:00 -
[10]
Reflecting on the past week...
Well that was a trip. My goal was to have 10m by the end of this week, so I'm quite pleased with this result. Sure hasn't been without its trials though.
My first few days felt like relatively smooth sailing. All of the goods I was able to afford also happened to be high volume. I traded pretty much all the same items all the way up to ~1mil. In fact, there was one item in particular that was a bit of a cash cow... There were two large buy orders up for my station only. They were priced right around the sell point at the station, so I threw up a half-priced buy order covering the solar system. It amazes me how lazy people are...
As you can see from my chart, I sort of hit a wall once I broke a couple mil. I don't have the patience (or the max # of orders) to keep handling the high-volume, low priced goods. They just don't have a significant-enough impact on my income atm (at least not the ones i've tried so far). Now that I'm in the 10mil bracket, I can see it's going to take quite a bit more research to get back in the game.
Now to throw a wrench into my experiment...
My wife and I are going on vacation next week to visit some family so I won't have access to EVE for days 12-19 and possibly 20. I honestly don't know the best way to handle this...
One part of me wants to give it everything I've got for the rest of this week, then just place as many orders as I can and see where it stands when I return. I would try my best to calculate my end of day NAV retroactively.
The other part wants to just put it on hold... Cash out completely right (including canceling all sell orders) now and start on week 2 when I return. I'd cover the lost broker fees by putting my cash into an interest-bearing bank account.
Any other thoughts on the matter?
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Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.12 03:35:00 -
[11]
Good work.
Yeh I would say cash out completely so you can just relax and not worry about your orders while vacationing. I think this post should be linked to the FAQs.
Have a fun trip.
Eve Corp Web Design | Eve Online Addicts |
Cogwheel
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Posted - 2008.02.12 03:55:00 -
[12]
I think I'll just nurse my sell orders for the rest of the week. I'll still call Day 7 the cutoff since these orders are already figured into my NAV. The way the prices are trending over the last few days is less than encouraging, so I don't want to have a bunch of junk in my hangar upon return...
Part of me wonders if this thread might hold some blame for the problem ;)
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Vested Interest
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Posted - 2008.02.12 05:26:00 -
[13]
Before you go, put up as many buy orders as you can for some stuff at "can't lose" prices. Maybe you'll have some stuff waiting for you when you get back.
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Cogwheel
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Posted - 2008.02.12 18:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Vested Interest Before you go, put up as many buy orders as you can for some stuff at "can't lose" prices. Maybe you'll have some stuff waiting for you when you get back.
The marketeer part of me would love to do that, however it would tarnish my little experiment. My NAV would (likely) increase during a time when nothing is "supposed" to change... The assets I have now are still up for sale since they are already accounted for, but I won't be placing any new buy orders until I return.
That being said, I will re-evaluate my end of day 7 NAV as soon as I return. I've already lost ~1mil in estimated value on them (my most recent calculation is posted... was originally ~12.4 mil). Hopefully things will stabilize a bit...
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Meridius Dex
Amarr Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: arith danta I read Bouncer Ricdic's thread and decided to try some trading myself. After 2 weeks and turning 10 million into 150 million, all my corp mates are pestering me for information about how I did it :)
I would love to know how you guys are doing this. I've been trying to get a different form of income going, after months of monotonous ratting. I accumulated 750M before beginning my trade career this past Saturday night, using an alt similar to the OPs (Trade V, Daytrading IV, etc). So far I've just barely cleared 200 million in 2.5 days of nearly round-the-clock monitoring of orders.
It sounds as if you guys have figured a way to increase profits by magnitudes off your initial investment, not just by percentages. I've only made 10-30% margins on most of my trades and have 'fire-sale'd on a few whose margins were going south fast after the weekend.
Clearly, I still have a lot to learn in a field where the pros understandably have little incentive to assist. -- Meridius Dex --
Amarr = EVE on Hard setting |
Cogwheel
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:42:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Cogwheel on 12/02/2008 21:42:58 Well, I attribute my high daily increase to the high-volume low-cost goods I was dealing in. Now that I've passed 10mil, it looks like I'm going to start seeing <100% daily increases for the rest of my "career".
As for what you should expect in the 100m+ range, I certainly am not the one to ask...
Edit: Any answers would be eagerly welcomed though
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Klavayne
Free Mercenaries Union FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2008.02.12 22:25:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Klavayne on 12/02/2008 22:25:28
Originally by: Meridius Dex
It sounds as if you guys have figured a way to increase profits by magnitudes off your initial investment, not just by percentages. I've only made 10-30% margins on most of my trades and have 'fire-sale'd on a few whose margins were going south fast after the weekend.
Clearly, I still have a lot to learn in a field where the pros understandably have little incentive to assist.
That sort of profit sounds about right for the amount of money you are trading with. %profits get less and less the more money you are trading in typically. It sounds like your doing quite good and as your experience increases, the profit margins won't necessarily go up but the effort it takes you will decrease. I.e. you'll learn how to make those profits easier the constant babysitting.
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Meridius Dex
Amarr Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.02.13 04:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Klavayne Edited by: Klavayne on 12/02/2008 22:25:28
Originally by: Meridius Dex
It sounds as if you guys have figured a way to increase profits by magnitudes off your initial investment, not just by percentages. I've only made 10-30% margins on most of my trades and have 'fire-sale'd on a few whose margins were going south fast after the weekend.
Clearly, I still have a lot to learn in a field where the pros understandably have little incentive to assist.
That sort of profit sounds about right for the amount of money you are trading with. %profits get less and less the more money you are trading in typically. It sounds like your doing quite good and as your experience increases, the profit margins won't necessarily go up but the effort it takes you will decrease. I.e. you'll learn how to make those profits easier the constant babysitting.
Well, that is at least heartening to know. I keep hearing how people are making 2 Bill in a week and I just don't see it (yet). Of course, I needn't make anywhere near that much - I have no interest in flying capital ships or running expensive POSs. But I am hoping to get good enough at this that I can support myself without ratting/missioning (and without having to tirelessly daytrade). -- Meridius Dex --
Amarr = EVE on Hard setting |
Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.13 15:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Meridius Dex I keep hearing how people are making 2 Bill in a week and I just don't see it (yet). Of course, I needn't make anywhere near that much - I have no interest in flying capital ships or running expensive POSs. But I am hoping to get good enough at this that I can support myself without ratting/missioning (and without having to tirelessly daytrade).
Not everyone is making those sorts of figures of course, though it is actually quite easy to do with the right sort of trade items.
I aim to make a minimum amount each month that will cover my Corp Office rental fee's, my GTCs (so the game is free), and to keep up my skill books. Once you're established, this is a very easy amount of ISK-profit to maintain, with a very minimal input of time.
When I feel like really playing hard, I can put more time in and make a lot more.
Eve Corp Web Design | Eve Online Addicts |
Cogwheel
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Posted - 2008.02.13 15:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Astorothe GTCs (so the game is free)
This is really my ultimate goal. I've had a hard time staying obsessed with EVE in the past even though I really wanted to. But each time I've canceled I always wished occasionally to be able to do some things in the game. Eliminating the monthly fee will certainly help ;)
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Avarice Dreams
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Posted - 2008.02.18 02:29:00 -
[21]
This is not an attempt to derail Cogwheel's efforts, nor is it an attempt to toot my own horn. However, since he seems to be off for the next week and this thread is on page 3, I'll bump this by saying that this is the end of day 15 of my similar experiment. As of close of day GMT, I've managed to compile 33,533,368 in isk from trading. Whether this is good or not is questionable, but I'm happy. I've been online three times a day and am learning a lot. I've decided to start my own thread after 30 days to say how I've done and how I did it. In the mean time, back to the Cogwheel show . . . (hurry back!)
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Cogwheel
Legio Eterna
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Posted - 2008.02.25 15:09:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Cogwheel on 25/02/2008 15:09:32 Well wouldn't you know it, after 8 days without any access to the net, I come back home and have no power... Someone crashed their care into a power pole down the road and it took until 1 this morning (my time) for them to fix it... I'll be starting up again at 00:18 (eve time).
PS. Everyone should feel free to post their own experiences too... Just 'cause i got the OP doesn't mean I need to monopolize this thread
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Cogwheel
Legio Eterna
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Posted - 2008.02.26 12:55:00 -
[23]
RL is getting the best of me... Between the flu and being evicted because the landlord died so the house is being foreclosed, I really don't have much time I can (healthily) devote to this project.
For now I'm suspending my experiment indefinitely. However, I encourage anyone else to post their own experiences to keep this thread alive.
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Merchant Prince
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Posted - 2008.02.27 06:11:00 -
[24]
ok well starting out with a noob minmatar trade alt....i got 32mil to start with from my main(all the money i had at the time) and i am now doing about 2-4 hours of work before i go to bed. i am getting about 50mil a night, meaning by the time i wake up in the morning i have gained 50mil with more satuff still on the market. and my current rate and after 2 months of training on this trade alt, i will be makeing 1bil a month and 2 months later i should be able to make 3bil a month..but plz don't ask me how because its my little secret and i wouldnt want to ruin my profit : )
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Cogwheel
New Eden Credit Bureau
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Posted - 2008.03.25 20:24:00 -
[25]
Things have finally settled down a bit, so I'm starting up operations again. I've thrown up a bunch of buy orders and updated my Day 7 NAV to reflect all the broker fees I just spent :|
Anyway... Onward!!
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Jesum
Warmongers
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Posted - 2008.03.26 07:31:00 -
[26]
Very interesting and amusing. Please keep this post up and continue what you are doing!
___________ Jesum, CEO of Warmongers: Guns for hire.
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Cogwheel
New Eden Credit Bureau
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Posted - 2008.03.27 19:05:00 -
[27]
Hmm... Looks like I need to find some higher volume items...
@ the single-digit gain day 9...
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TheVad
Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.03.28 01:08:00 -
[28]
Honest question,
How is this project effecting your NECB project?
TheVad -Trust me, I got it covered. |
Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.28 03:13:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Astorothe on 28/03/2008 03:14:16 Edited reason: Can't believe how sensitive the filter is, c'mon gimme a break :)
Originally by: Cogwheel Hmm... Looks like I need to find some higher volume items...
@ the single-digit gain day 9...
It's all gone to **** since you took your break - what did you do on your holidays trek to Nepal?
:)
Deus Ex Machina ~ Eve Corp, Web Design & Gaming News |
Cogwheel
New Eden Credit Bureau
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Posted - 2008.03.28 03:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Astorothe It's all gone to **** since you took your break - what did you do on your holidays trek to Nepal?
Damn near... Texas count?
Well, that was one week... then i had the flu for a week... and the last three weeks we've been hectically house-hunting.
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