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nate555
GODHC INTERSTELLAR FLEET
42
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Posted - 2012.02.15 19:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
what do i do. i like flying cruisers, but i just don't know how to get around this perma jamming. found a frig camp today and i was setup to fight frigs. never shot once because of a falcon. |
yopparai
ASTARTES CORP
15
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Posted - 2012.02.15 19:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
fit eccm |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
22
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Posted - 2012.02.15 19:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
500M ISK worth of implants and a lowslot gives you a "clear" cycle once in a while .. problem is not just solo, but any gang size below 5-6 or so .. especially bad for cruiser down hulls which generally do not have slots to spare.
CCP are aware of it and are working on a solution .. hahahaha, psyched!
PS: Avoid ECM users when out in small stuff/gangs until some viable options are introduced to counter it. PPS: Feel free to smack the "frig gang" that uses a Recon .. haven't they heard of the might Griffin!!!!!! |
nate555
GODHC INTERSTELLAR FLEET
42
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Posted - 2012.02.15 19:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
it is rather hard. i don't have the slots for ECCM |
Salcon Cliff
Aliastra Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.02.15 19:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
I guess you could go drones/FoF missiles...prob is, you can't get a point on them, so unlikely to kill em :(. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
19
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Posted - 2012.02.15 20:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
nate555 wrote: because of falcon.
fixed |
Abbadon21
Cosmic Cimmerians The G0dfathers
5
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Posted - 2012.02.15 21:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Next time you see a camp of frigs with EWAR support, go get your self a Caracal and set it up with Assault Missile launchers and FOF Missiles.
Something Like This...
[Caracal, Anti-Frig] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Stasis Webifier II
Assault Missile Launcher II, Serpent F.O.F. Light Missile I Assault Missile Launcher II, Serpent F.O.F. Light Missile I Assault Missile Launcher II, Serpent F.O.F. Light Missile I Assault Missile Launcher II, Serpent F.O.F. Light Missile I Assault Missile Launcher II, Serpent F.O.F. Light Missile I
Warrior II x2
Or Get a Drake with FOF and when Falcon uncloaks go sit right on top of him until he dies or warps away.
ECCM works but it's not a sure thing when you are in a crusier vs a falcon... Just takes you from perma jammed to mostly perma jammed. Learn How PRO Players Make Billions of ISK and Dominate PVP: http://www.EVEProGuides.com |
Abbadon21
Cosmic Cimmerians The G0dfathers
5
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Posted - 2012.02.15 21:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oh yeah... Check my Caracal PVP Vid here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F6_q6XROTY&list=UU8F0Awpe4TjCaoC7-wy6FkQ&index=25&feature=plcp
Learn How PRO Players Make Billions of ISK and Dominate PVP: http://www.EVEProGuides.com |
nate555
GODHC INTERSTELLAR FLEET
42
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Posted - 2012.02.15 22:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
this is what i had
[Caracal, pvp] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction X5 Prototype Engine Enervator V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Trauma Light Missile 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Trauma Light Missile 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Trauma Light Missile 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Trauma Light Missile 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Trauma Light Missile
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15258515 |
Abbadon21
Cosmic Cimmerians The G0dfathers
5
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Posted - 2012.02.15 22:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
That will do.... Just try not to engage them all at once if you can avoid it.
Try to split them up on opposing sides of the gate or pull them in 1 by 1 in a running battle. That will improve your odds.
GL next time you try it. Learn How PRO Players Make Billions of ISK and Dominate PVP: http://www.EVEProGuides.com |
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nate555
GODHC INTERSTELLAR FLEET
42
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Posted - 2012.02.15 22:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
yea i tried to burn away from them becuase of a bubble. the dram cought up to me and the saber cought up using another web. my top speed became 115m/s and was far away from the gate. there was a moment when i could have warped but didnt react fast enugh |
Monty Kvaran
Criminal Intentions En Garde
17
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Posted - 2012.02.16 01:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Its not reasonable to expect to be effective SOLO, in a T1 Cruiser, against a gang of frigates with ECM support coming from a T2 cruiser. |
Richard Bong
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.02.17 03:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Splitting them is your best bet. Try to draw them through the gate, ECM will generally be at optimal's from the gate and that can give you enough time to zorch one of the overzealous tacklers then bail before they can jump through again and get you jammed. [ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting! |
Ryder 3vyn
State Navy
7
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Posted - 2012.02.17 15:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Monty Kvaran wrote:Its not reasonable to expect to be effective SOLO, in a T1 Cruiser, against a gang of frigates with ECM support coming from a T2 cruiser. The problem is the fact that it would be reasonable to expect that if it weren't for ECM being so powerful. Like let's say it's a gang of frigates with EWAR support coming from a T2 cruiser. Is the support cruiser a big deal in regards to the outcome of the battle? Well that depends on whether it is a Target Painting Rapier that will make you take more damage from your enemies, or a Falcon that will decimate any chance you had of even locking your enemy. |
Larofeticus
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
1
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Posted - 2012.02.17 19:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
ECM is the opposite of fun. It punishes being solo/smaller numbers and rewards bringing a blob to counter it.
And then if you do bring a blob they'll complain about that. "If you wanted a good fight you shouldn't have brought ECM."
Or even if you load up on ECCM they'll still all run away. If you can get locks 80% of the time, that 20% jam is enough to lose tackle and end up with nothing to show for the effort. "What's the matter? Don't want to fight when I can actually do things?"
So if you don't want to fly in a blob your only option is to get good enough intel to know if an ecm ship is present, and if it is, then avoid the whole group. Or accept the risk that your entire battleship can be rendered impotent by a specific frigate. |
Soporo
Perkone Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.02.20 03:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
join RvB, there is a no ECM rule. Solo all you want too, if that's your thing. The Rifter's, they blot out the sun.
Otherwise, get a bud to for anti-Falcoon work (another Recon, eccm fit sniper, whatever).
Lots of things suck and stop fun fights: Ecm, CYNOS POPPING OFF, Being Damped down to nothing, being neuted, being blobbed, etc, but what can you do besides try to minimize or work around what annoys you. Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken |
Tazarak theDeceiver
Southern Cross Knights Order Of The Unforgiving
11
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Posted - 2012.02.20 04:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
I started carrying F.O.F. and it's pretty funny to see how quickly the ECM ships align/warp out if they get hit only once.
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Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
151
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Posted - 2012.02.20 04:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ships capable of longer ranges (drakes, cerbs, tengus, caracals, cormorants (you can get 80km range with a 150mm rail fit), nagas, caldari ships in general) do very well against ecm. Most ECM boats lose their effectiveness the further you get away from them after 50km (falloff). You can snipe most ecm from beyond their ranges into either having to leave the field or die and then begin to lay into their gang.
If you fly minmatar, you have speed on your side to burn out of the range of ecm and kill their gang if they chase you. If you fly gallente you have drones, caldari have higher sensor strength and have the range...and amarr...welp goodluck. |
Mieper
Random Events
0
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Posted - 2012.02.20 16:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
nate555 wrote:what do i do. i like flying cruisers, but i just don't know how to get around this perma jamming. found a frig camp today and i was setup to fight frigs. never shot once because of a falcon.
The smaller the gang, the bigger the force muliplier effect is from ECM.
The great thing about ecm is it can be fit to anything, frigate sized or greater. Early in my EVE online career, as a complete noob, I beat a corp mate in a corp "frigs to the death" tournament because I guessed (correctly) which frig he would choose to fight me. I figured since he had far better skills for guns than I had that I needed to neutralize that advange so I decided to train for jammers instead of guns and as luck would have it, it was my day and he never even got off a shot.
A falcon in a small gang is a powerful weapon but not invincible. Any ship that has a long range with reasonable dps can chase it off the field. The drone sniping Ishtar might be the best anti-falcon weapon in the game, actually.
That said, I don't know what you wanted to use to kill the frigate camp but intel is essential no matter what you bring. The fact that you didn't know they had a falcon and/or you didn't know how to counter the facon says a lot, with all due respect, about your preparation.
There are three golden rules with respect to small-gang/solo- PVP.
Patience Patience and Patience
|
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
26
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Posted - 2012.02.20 18:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
That would be four golden rules then: Patience Patience Patience and The other side has a neutral T3 booster, neutral logistics on standby, neutral ECM bird somewhere and possibly packing a cyno for a Titan bridge.
There, looks much more real now |
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Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Vanguard.
33
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Posted - 2012.02.22 18:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ryder 3vyn wrote:Monty Kvaran wrote:Its not reasonable to expect to be effective SOLO, in a T1 Cruiser, against a gang of frigates with ECM support coming from a T2 cruiser. The problem is the fact that it would be reasonable to expect that if it weren't for ECM being so powerful. Like let's say it's a gang of frigates with EWAR support coming from a T2 cruiser. Is the support cruiser a big deal in regards to the outcome of the battle? Well that depends on whether it is a Target Painting Rapier that will make you take more damage from your enemies, or a Falcon that will decimate any chance you had of even locking your enemy. The Rapier kills you with his web genius |
Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Vanguard.
33
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 18:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:I started carrying F.O.F. and it's pretty funny to see how quickly the ECM ships align/warp out if they get hit only once.
Thats because they have no tank unlike other recons |
Ryder 3vyn
State Navy
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 20:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Ryder 3vyn wrote:Monty Kvaran wrote:Its not reasonable to expect to be effective SOLO, in a T1 Cruiser, against a gang of frigates with ECM support coming from a T2 cruiser. The problem is the fact that it would be reasonable to expect that if it weren't for ECM being so powerful. Like let's say it's a gang of frigates with EWAR support coming from a T2 cruiser. Is the support cruiser a big deal in regards to the outcome of the battle? Well that depends on whether it is a Target Painting Rapier that will make you take more damage from your enemies, or a Falcon that will decimate any chance you had of even locking your enemy. The Rapier kills you with his web genius You ******* moron... that's not even close to as effective as jamming. The webbed anti-frigate platform can still put up one hell of a fight while webbed, try that while being jammed the whole fight.
As a matter of fact... well, the Falcon would decimate the enemy anti-frigate platform's chance of a fight no matter what, really. But if it was a Rapier with some webs and TPs... let's say you go there in an Assault Missile Drake - you will in all probability destroy the entire frigate gang and might even be able to kill the support Rapier to boot if you scram or web him... genius.
Zyress wrote:Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:I started carrying F.O.F. and it's pretty funny to see how quickly the ECM ships align/warp out if they get hit only once.
Thats because they have no tank unlike other recons Also, Captain 0bvious, thanks for telling us this. |
Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Vanguard.
33
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 22:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ryder 3vyn wrote:[quote=Zyress][quote=Ryder 3vyn][quote=Monty Kvaran]Lots of ignorant ranting You ******* moron... that's not even close to as effective as jamming. The webbed anti-frigate platform can still put up one hell of a fight while webbed, try that while being jammed the whole fight.
As a matter of fact... the Falcon would decimate the enemy anti-frigate platform's chance of a fight no matter what, really. But if it was a Rapier with some webs and TPs... let's say you go there in an Assault Missile Drake or a double web double neut armor Cane - you will in all probability destroy the entire frigate gang and might even be able to kill the support Rapier to boot if you scram or web him... genius. More ignorant ranting.
When you consider that the jammed ship can just fly away and the webbed ship is screwed I'd consider it 100% more effective than jamming..... oh enlightened one. When you consider that with the small addition of a faction point a Rapier can kite any frigate in the game long enough to kill it since it never needs to move within 30 km range of it. I'm not saying there aren't answers for it, but they don't come in frigate size. If I'm in a frigate and I see a hostile Rapier and a hostile Falcon, Its not the Falcon I'm worried about. |
Ryder 3vyn
State Navy
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 04:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Zyress wrote:When you consider that the jammed ship can just fly away.... When? The situation we were talking about was an effective frigate-killer {Drake or Cane or something} fighting a gang of frigates with a support EWAR cruiser. Why would you be able to just fly away?
Zyress wrote:....and the webbed ship is screwed.... How is an anti-frigate ship going to be screwed while fighting a gang of frigates just because it's webbed by a support Rapier? Are you using your brain at all?
Zyress wrote:When you consider that with the small addition of a faction point a Rapier can kite any frigate in the game long enough to kill it since it never needs to move within 30 km range of it. I'm not saying there aren't answers for it, but they don't come in frigate size. If I'm in a frigate and I see a hostile Rapier and a hostile Falcon, Its not the Falcon I'm worried about. First of all, a Rapier does not need a faction point to kill frigates. Secondly, you seem to be a bit delusional regarding the layout of the situation we were discussing. You might want to re-read a few posts. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
53
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 04:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Ryder 3vyn wrote:[quote=Zyress][quote=Ryder 3vyn][quote=Monty Kvaran]Lots of ignorant ranting You ******* moron... that's not even close to as effective as jamming. The webbed anti-frigate platform can still put up one hell of a fight while webbed, try that while being jammed the whole fight.
As a matter of fact... the Falcon would decimate the enemy anti-frigate platform's chance of a fight no matter what, really. But if it was a Rapier with some webs and TPs... let's say you go there in an Assault Missile Drake or a double web double neut armor Cane - you will in all probability destroy the entire frigate gang and might even be able to kill the support Rapier to boot if you scram or web him... genius. More ignorant ranting. When you consider that the jammed ship can just fly away and the webbed ship is screwed I'd consider it 100% more effective than jamming..... oh enlightened one. When you consider that with the small addition of a faction point a Rapier can kite any frigate in the game long enough to kill it since it never needs to move within 30 km range of it. I'm not saying there aren't answers for it, but they don't come in frigate size. If I'm in a frigate and I see a hostile Rapier and a hostile Falcon, Its not the Falcon I'm worried about.
So your argument is that an armorcane fighting a number of frigates is not assuredly scrammed and webbed many times over?
Edit: For the record, http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12395932 If they had a rapier the only thing that would have changed is I might have ended up with a recon killmail. If they had a falcon, I 100% would have died.
2nd edit: ECM is overpowered in small gangs, I dont think anyone who actually flies in small gangs disputes this. |
Elder Thorn
Ghosts of War
0
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Posted - 2012.02.23 09:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
(god, i don't know why, but it was really hard for me, to write this one in english, usually i am doing better, excuse me if this one is hard to read)
Michael Harari wrote:
2nd edit: ECM is overpowered in small gangs, I dont think anyone who actually flies in small gangs disputes this.
yeah, i agree.
We were roaming with BC and 2 Logis yesterday and encountered another gang. At the beginning of the fight, they had 1 falcon, taking care of the logis, numbers of BCs were even, they had better dps with 2 Talos, but we had more tank spread over the gang.
While the Falcon jammed the hell out of the Scimis we decided to stay and fight, was still a fair fight, but then a second falcon decloaked and put our DPS close to 0.
I'm not blaming those guys for bringing the falcons, it was effective, they got a kill, we got a kill and i would bring 2 Falcons to a fight aswell, if i have 2 of them in my gang.
But i think that shows, how powerfull a falcon is. 2 Gangs, pretty even fight and 2 falcons can force a whole gang to turn off weapons and run away.
Don't get me wrong, i trained for Falcon aswell, and i used it, aswell as the Rook and the Griffin when i was a rookie.
I think it'll be hard to rebalance ECM. Lets assume a 1on1 Situation: Recon vs. Battlecruiser Lets say the BC is a hurricane, pretty much every recon will be able to beat it with use of its bonuses, rapier will dictate range, arazu will damp and stay on range, pilgrim might be a bit in trouble, but curse will absolutly dominate, aswell as rook or Falcon. But, even the Rook can't take much punishment from a cane, so if you miss 2 or 3 cycles of jammers, the cane will tear you apart. If you'd scale down ECM Strength, they will become useless very soon, which shouldn't be the point of rebalancing, so any ideas on how to fix them? I don't have any... |
Andrea Griffin
131
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 16:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Elder Thorn wrote:(god, i don't know why, but it was really hard for me, to write this one in english, usually i am doing better, excuse me if this one is hard to read). It's very readable, don't worry about it.
And I do agree that ECM is the bane of small gang / solo combat. Same with off-grid T3 boosters.
Unfortunately there's not much you can do about it. ECCM helps somewhat. FoF missiles can help drive off an attacker, maybe. I like the ECM mechanic in general but it's too punishing for certain styles of PvP. It's not you guys who need to repair what has been broken, it's us. CCP Wrangler |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Flatline.
33
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Posted - 2012.02.25 23:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
So you fly solo against a gang with ECM, got jammed and died. Yet if you had replaced their ECM boats with LOGI boats (say they had 1-2 scimitars instead of 1-2 falcons) you still would have died, you still wouldn't have killed anything, but I wonder if you'd be whining?
ECM is part of the rock paper scissors of eve.
Alpha>ECM>Logi>DPS
Alpha can take ecm off the field before the ecm manages to jam too much. ECM can prevent logi from repping. Reps prevent DPS from having too much of an effect. DPS gets shafted a bit but then the term 'DPS' is a very loose one applying to any number of ships, all of shich have diffirent sub-roles. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 11:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Baseline is that solo vs group .... the solo loses in most cases. |
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