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Seraphia Anhara
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Posted - 2008.02.15 19:58:00 -
[1]
Just came back from a time away and noticed some big changes around. one of which was a new class labelles black-ops. was wondering if anyone has played around with one a bit. looked for setups for one to see successful mission builds etc etc but cant seem to find a lot of info aside from the stats. hope someone can help me get more familiar with this class of ship, or at least determine if it is a waste of time and i should focus on other things. cheers.
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Haradgrim
The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.02.15 20:03:00 -
[2]
Widow + Ewar = death incarnate
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.15 20:17:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Haradgrim Widow + Ewar = death incarnate
for the Widow
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Haradgrim
The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.02.15 20:22:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Haradgrim Widow + Ewar = death incarnate
for the Widow
No more then any other ship, plus support helps....
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.15 20:41:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Haradgrim
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Haradgrim Widow + Ewar = death incarnate
for the Widow
No more then any other ship, plus support helps....
Argued it alot in previous threads. Has no use in a small gang tbh, and has no use in fleet. My best use for mine was shopping
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.15 21:11:00 -
[6]
They are evil, but only in very special circumstances.
Let's say you have a enemy cloaker in system that waits patiently for a miner gank opportunity. He runs and cloaks at a safe as soon as any opposition shows up in local, but comes out during slow times to look for targets in the belts.
Set up your gang of Recons in an adjacent system with a Black Ops BS, on the QT. Recruit a miner to fit a cyno field on his bait Covetor. Send bait ship into belt and wait for it to be taken. As soon as bait ship is engaged, bait ship activates cyno, Black Ops locks onto it and bridges the Recon gang right on top of him. Watching local won't help him escape. As soon as he notices the spike, it's too late.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Haradgrim
The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.02.15 21:21:00 -
[7]
The widow makes for amazing reinforcements.
Your POS/CAPITAL SHIP/MISSION RUNNING BS FLEET/ETC/ETC gets attacked by a small but well equiped roving gang (say an inty or two, some HACS, a recon or two, and maybe a heavy dictor or standard dictor). Warp in a recon or two, + widow + dps and you will decimate the enemy gang.
Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.15 21:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Haradgrim The widow makes for amazing reinforcements.
Your POS/CAPITAL SHIP/MISSION RUNNING BS FLEET/ETC/ETC gets attacked by a small but well equiped roving gang (say an inty or two, some HACS, a recon or two, and maybe a heavy dictor or standard dictor). Warp in a recon or two, + widow + dps and you will decimate the enemy gang.
And whats the difference between this and warping in 1-2 recons + rook/falcon + dps?
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Julius Romanus
Blood Corsair's Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.02.15 21:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Haradgrim The widow makes for amazing reinforcements.
Your POS/CAPITAL SHIP/MISSION RUNNING BS FLEET/ETC/ETC gets attacked by a small but well equiped roving gang (say an inty or two, some HACS, a recon or two, and maybe a heavy dictor or standard dictor). Warp in a recon or two, + widow + dps and you will decimate the enemy gang.
And whats the difference between this and warping in 1-2 recons + rook/falcon + dps?
Costs more.
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Guer
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Posted - 2008.02.15 23:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Seraphia Anhara Just came back from a time away and noticed some big changes around. one of which was a new class labelles black-ops. was wondering if anyone has played around with one a bit. looked for setups for one to see successful mission builds
1 look at the stats should tell you these are not mission ships. Go check out marauders.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.16 00:43:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
And whats the difference between this and warping in 1-2 recons + rook/falcon + dps?
Nothing. I think they meant jump-bridge in. The advantage of course, is that the enemy doesn't see any local spike until you are right on top of him. -- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.02.16 01:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel Nothing. I think they meant jump-bridge in. The advantage of course, is that the enemy doesn't see any local spike until you are right on top of him.
Why not just drop capitals? A black ops costs half as much as a carrier and is far, far more frail and far less combat capable. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
White Ronin
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Posted - 2008.02.16 01:40:00 -
[13]
Well small gang and fleet aside, how about their use as solo craft?
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Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.02.16 01:47:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 16/02/2008 01:50:37
Originally by: White Ronin Well small gang and fleet aside, how about their use as solo craft?
Largely crap. In comparison to their tech I battleship counterparts they have:
1.) Less tank. 2.) Lower DPS. 3.) Crappier fittings. 4.) An utterly, utterly horrid lock time. (Caused by the cloak scan resolution penalty, with no contravening role bonus.)
The only thing they have going for them over tech I battleships when considered as solo craft is...the fact that they can begin locking immediately after uncloaking. Sadly, though, their crap scan resolution makes this largely redundant. Oh, they also can't use covops cloaking devices (i.e. can't warp cloaked).
EDIT: I have a widow gathering dust in station, and could fly a panther as well if I could find any reason to use one given their current state. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Xequecal
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Posted - 2008.02.16 01:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 16/02/2008 01:50:37
Originally by: White Ronin Well small gang and fleet aside, how about their use as solo craft?
Largely crap. In comparison to their tech I battleship counterparts they have:
1.) Less tank. 2.) Lower DPS. 3.) Crappier fittings. 4.) An utterly, utterly horrid lock time. (Caused by the cloak scan resolution penalty, with no contravening role bonus.)
The only thing they have going for them over tech I battleships when considered as solo craft is...the fact that they can begin locking immediately after uncloaking. Sadly, though, their crap scan resolution makes this largely redundant. Oh, they also can't use covops cloaking devices (i.e. can't warp cloaked).
EDIT: I have a widow gathering dust in station, and could fly a panther as well if I could find any reason to use one given their current state.
#4 is false. Redeemer with a cloak has a scan res of 108. There are quite a few T1 BS with worse scan resolutions than that.
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Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.02.16 01:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 16/02/2008 01:59:28
Originally by: Xequecal #4 is false. Redeemer with a cloak has a scan res of 108. There are quite a few T1 BS with worse scan resolutions than that.
How many sensor boosters are you running? It has to be at least 1. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Kyra Felann
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2008.02.16 03:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Seraphia Anhara successful mission builds
lol?
Black ops ships would probably be worse for missions than T1 battleships.
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2008.02.16 04:21:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Xequecal on 16/02/2008 04:23:52
Quote: How many sensor boosters are you running? It has to be at least 1.
Uhm, zero? Redeemer has a base scan res of 165 with Sig Analysis V.
They don't have "less tank" either, I don't know where you get that from. They have the same number of slots, whatever tank you can fit on a T1 you can fit on these. In fact, they have slightly better tanks, they get a small racial resist bonus.
The main problems with Black Ops are cost and cargohold size. If they got a fuel hangar they would be fine.
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Maverick 52
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Posted - 2008.02.16 07:44:00 -
[19]
The only way I've thought of using a Black Ops effectively is in small gang warfare.
1 Arazu 1 Rapier 1 Falcon 1 Black Ops
Arazu, Rapier, and Falcon pin down the target, Falcon cyno's in the Black Ops ship.
The only reason for the Black Ops is if your recons dont do enough DPS to kill your target. I can see this being used for low sec mission ganking. The falcon can be eliminated if you're sure your target can't close in on, or hit a stationary target. In that case you can use the Rapier or Arazu to cyno in the Black Ops.
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Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.02.16 19:02:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 16/02/2008 19:03:09
Originally by: Xequecal Uhm, zero? Redeemer has a base scan res of 165 with Sig Analysis V.
Hmm...alrighty. You must be lucky in your choice of race, then. My widow's scan res with a DG cloak and sig analysis 5 is sub-100.
Quote: They don't have "less tank" either, I don't know where you get that from. They have the same number of slots, whatever tank you can fit on a T1 you can fit on these. In fact, they have slightly better tanks, they get a small racial resist bonus.
They have less tank because of fittings. Black ops fittings are atrocious, at least for the widow and the panther. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
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Zakgram
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.02.17 08:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Maverick 52 The only way I've thought of using a Black Ops effectively is in small gang warfare. Arazu, Rapier, and Falcon pin down the target, Falcon cyno's in the Black Ops ship.
Bubble, rapier (damp&web), widow. Both cloaked so if something nasty hits the bubble you just stay hidden.
Originally by: Wrayeth Why not just drop capitals? A black ops costs half as much as a carrier and is far, far more frail and far less combat capable.
It's the *requirement* to have a buddy flying with you that puts me off capitals. That and no recon carrier ;-0
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WiseMagic
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.02.17 11:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: WiseMagic on 17/02/2008 11:46:55 Well looking at my Sin there is very little diff to the domi you can get same dps after all it does use the same drones and the sin has a bigger drone bay. It can run a very nice tank and its resist are good still these ships were not designed to be on the front lines. As for moving recons with the jumpportal well ccp needs to do something there the fuel cost for the jumps is crazy. I hear alot of people saying these ships need the covert cloak to work right, tbh I think that would make these ships overpowered. A fuel bay is what we need.
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Slider46
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Posted - 2008.02.19 15:27:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Slider46 on 19/02/2008 15:27:43
Originally by: Guillame Herschel They are evil, but only in very special circumstances.
Let's say you have a enemy cloaker in system that waits patiently for a miner gank opportunity. He runs and cloaks at a safe as soon as any opposition shows up in local, but comes out during slow times to look for targets in the belts.
Set up your gang of Recons in an adjacent system with a Black Ops BS, on the QT. Recruit a miner to fit a cyno field on his bait Covetor. Send bait ship into belt and wait for it to be taken. As soon as bait ship is engaged, bait ship activates cyno, Black Ops locks onto it and bridges the Recon gang right on top of him. Watching local won't help him escape. As soon as he notices the spike, it's too late.
I'm still slightly confused..
My main question is can the Black Ops pilot lock on to a cyno from a recon fleet, create a covert jump portal (only usable by recon/covert ops) and jump the recon fleet to the Black Ops; or does the Black Ops have be on the other side. Lock on to the target cyno ship, and jump the recon fleet (where the Black Ops is) to the target cyno ship
Sorry for my newbness, i'm just starting to get into cynos/ jump drive skills.
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Indigo Johnson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.19 15:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zakgram
Originally by: Wrayeth Why not just drop capitals? A black ops costs half as much as a carrier and is far, far more frail and far less combat capable.
It's the *requirement* to have a buddy flying with you that puts me off capitals. That and no recon carrier ;-0
Eh? You need a buddy with you to fully utilise black ops ships as well, or do you just use it as a giant stealth bomber and always use gates?
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Dalek Commander
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Posted - 2008.02.19 15:56:00 -
[25]
Recon goes out and finds a nice opportunity, and pops a Cyno. In comes the Black-ops with a fleet of Stealth Bombers. You can figure out what happens next...
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.02.19 16:04:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zakgram
Originally by: Maverick 52 The only way I've thought of using a Black Ops effectively is in small gang warfare. Arazu, Rapier, and Falcon pin down the target, Falcon cyno's in the Black Ops ship.
Bubble, rapier (damp&web), widow. Both cloaked so if something nasty hits the bubble you just stay hidden.
Originally by: Wrayeth Why not just drop capitals? A black ops costs half as much as a carrier and is far, far more frail and far less combat capable.
It's the *requirement* to have a buddy flying with you that puts me off capitals. That and no recon carrier ;-0
I would totally fly a recon carrier.
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