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Silvana Kor'ah
Minmatar Ultio Animi Causa
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Posted - 2008.02.18 10:10:00 -
[1]
hi there,
when u compare the best named T1 plates with the T2 pendant, you'll probably notice that the T2 variant does not a single value better than the T1 (rolled Thungsten in this case. In fact, the T1 has less mass, less cpu and powergrid requirements by same amount of armor hp gained.
Compared to large shield extenders, this seems not balanced. Not to mention that LSE have a faction version which the 1600mm plates also don't have.
I would suggest to enhance the T2 1600mm quite a bit.
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Xtreem
Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.18 10:13:00 -
[2]
agreed it is pretty useless! but i would prefer they had officer and faction 1600mm plates, and LSE.. would be nice :)
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Varrakk
Phantom Squad Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.18 10:14:00 -
[3]
Just deal with it. Theres plenty of other modules out there where named outclasses T2. Being T2, doesnt make it automatically better then any T1/Named modules.
Every T2 Ewar module, has a better named version. The list is too big to mention
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X99 Z990
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Posted - 2008.02.18 10:15:00 -
[4]
A boost to plates isnt necessary and its similar to other modules where best named is equal to T2.
So they would more than likely nerf best named T1 sooner than boosting t2 plates.
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Silvana Kor'ah
Minmatar Ultio Animi Causa
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Posted - 2008.02.18 10:28:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Varrakk Just deal with it. Theres plenty of other modules out there where named outclasses T2. Being T2, doesnt make it automatically better then any T1/Named modules.
Every T2 Ewar module, has a better named version. The list is too big to mention
U missed the point mate. I'm not complaining that T1 is better than T2, but if there's no difference at all, the T2 is obsolete. As T2 usually has higher CPU/PG requirements, CCP just has either to reduce mass or add some more HP to that T2 plattes and everyone is free to decide what fits best on his ship.
Besides, while comparing shields to armor it seems that armor has been quite neglected. F.e. shield boosters do a lot more HP in a shorter recycle, there are X-Large boosters + amplifiers + invulnerability fields. Armor doesn't have all this stuff. Not to mention that it is much more comfortable to have armor and hull in reserve when your tank breaks ;)
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.18 10:34:00 -
[6]
Solution, slightly nerf all named plates or give T2 a smaller weight addition..
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NoNah
Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.18 10:34:00 -
[7]
Higher mass, grid and CPU on it. Would put it in line with just about all forms of ew(including webs and nos).
The advantage for t2 tends to be the fact that they can be produced, contrary to named modules.
Postcount: 726208
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Squatdog
DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2008.02.18 10:38:00 -
[8]
Yeah, the whole 'Named being better than TechII' thing needs to be looked at, especially as TecII typically has much higher fitting reqs.
As for not being able to produce Named items, it's easy to farm armor plates in 0.0 anyway. I collect assloads of them ratting Sanshas in my Drake.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
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Varrakk
Phantom Squad Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.18 10:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah
Originally by: Varrakk Just deal with it. Theres plenty of other modules out there where named outclasses T2. Being T2, doesnt make it automatically better then any T1/Named modules.
Every T2 Ewar module, has a better named version. The list is too big to mention
U missed the point mate. I'm not complaining that T1 is better than T2, but if there's no difference at all, the T2 is obsolete. As T2 usually has higher CPU/PG requirements, CCP just has either to reduce mass or add some more HP to that T2 plattes and everyone is free to decide what fits best on his ship.
Besides, while comparing shields to armor it seems that armor has been quite neglected. F.e. shield boosters do a lot more HP in a shorter recycle, there are X-Large boosters + amplifiers + invulnerability fields. Armor doesn't have all this stuff. Not to mention that it is much more comfortable to have armor and hull in reserve when your tank breaks ;)
2x LAR equals 1x XL booster and Amp. Invulnerability field takes alot of cap. EAMN's have no cap use and virtually equal resist with good compensation skills.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.02.18 11:00:00 -
[10]
WTB 4200 hp shield extender...
Seriously, though. I see your point, and agree with it (T2 should be statistically different than best named)... using shields as a comparison in this case is a bit silly don't ya think?
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NoNah
Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.18 11:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Varrakk
2x LAR equals 1x XL booster and Amp. Invulnerability field takes alot of cap. EAMN's have no cap use and virtually equal resist with good compensation skills.
Ugh, there's soooo much more to it. In the end, the result will always be the same thing. Shields are better than armor for all forms of active tanking, in just about all aspects. Armors compensate by leaving midslots to other modules. It's an odd form, but it's balance.
Postcount: 533072
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Rainhailer
Gallente Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.02.18 11:20:00 -
[12]
Aren't there Syndicate plates?
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Tari Telrunya
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Posted - 2008.02.18 11:21:00 -
[13]
I must admit, when I first noticed this (not long after I started playing eve) I too was confused. Rolled tungsten gives more HP, less mass, lower fitting requirements, lower skill requirements AND is cheaper making the T2 completely redundant.
But that's just one of those things. It's not a big issue and 'fixing' it could lead to more problems, particularly if it means changing stats.
IMO, if anything should be done it should be to increase the price of the rolled tungsten (lower drop rate) and/or decrease the price of the T2 (somehow make it easier/cheaper to make).
Originally by: Tarminic CCP has a fairly large team of programmers and said personnel aren't amorphous blobs of "I MAEK CODE!"
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Attack Dog
Caldari Terran Robotics
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Posted - 2008.02.18 11:25:00 -
[14]
The only thing i can see is that the T2 varients are sometimes cheaper than the bes nammed versions. Also don't forget that the "faction" modules are nammed versions as well, just much much rarer and without market slots. ------sig starts here------ Don't be a noob, stop whinning 4 nerf's 2day |
NoNah
Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.18 11:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Attack Dog The only thing i can see is that the T2 varients are sometimes cheaper than the bes nammed versions. Also don't forget that the "faction" modules are nammed versions as well, just much much rarer and without market slots.
That and the logistics of it is the very key to why things are like they are. Moving 500 plates a month is quite a bit more cumbersome than moving a few bpc's and invention parts now and then.
Postcount: 308705
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Silvana Kor'ah
Minmatar Ultio Animi Causa
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Posted - 2008.02.18 11:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rainhailer Aren't there Syndicate plates?
well, yes. But they aren't any better except less mass if i remember correctly.
@ Wet Ferret
sure, extenders have less HP. But u should consider that extenders do upgrade your shield recharge rate, and take much less requirements.
@ Varrack
2 LARs are about 4000 PG and eat up lots of cap. Imagine what 4000 missing PW points mean to gallentean gunners f.e. I'm not sure, but i doubt that those shield booster/amp combination takes so much CPU to reduce you DPS so much as LARs do. Besides, the amp is a passive module, a 2nd LAR is not.
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Wideen
Eon Project Legion of Honor
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Posted - 2008.02.18 11:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Wet Ferret WTB 4200 hp shield extender...
It makes sense that shields would get a smaller HP bonus than armor since shields, as opposed to armor, doesn't regenerate. Even more HP per shield extender would result in insane shield recharge rates, especially so on already awesome passive tankers.
Originally by: F'nog Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
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Agil TradeAlt
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Posted - 2008.02.18 12:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Varrakk Just deal with it. Theres plenty of other modules out there where named outclasses T2. Being T2, doesnt make it automatically better then any T1/Named modules.
Every T2 Ewar module, has a better named version. The list is too big to mention
The guys is making a constructve point. Currently there is no point to t2 plates are they are obsolete. CCP should make a reason for these to exist.
If people listed to idiotic statmetns like yours, then ccp would never have fixed dozens of modules.
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mr bighelmet
EnTech Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.18 12:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah
Originally by: Varrakk Just deal with it. Theres plenty of other modules out there where named outclasses T2. Being T2, doesnt make it automatically better then any T1/Named modules.
Every T2 Ewar module, has a better named version. The list is too big to mention
U missed the point mate. I'm not complaining that T1 is better than T2, but if there's no difference at all, the T2 is obsolete. As T2 usually has higher CPU/PG requirements, CCP just has either to reduce mass or add some more HP to that T2 plattes and everyone is free to decide what fits best on his ship.
Besides, while comparing shields to armor it seems that armor has been quite neglected. F.e. shield boosters do a lot more HP in a shorter recycle, there are X-Large boosters + amplifiers + invulnerability fields. Armor doesn't have all this stuff. Not to mention that it is much more comfortable to have armor and hull in reserve when your tank breaks ;)
I totaly agree shield tanking is way better then armor tanking, that's why everyone use shield tanking for PvP, even on ships that where design to Armor tanking.
err opss.
If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest |
Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
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Posted - 2008.02.18 14:47:00 -
[20]
There is one thing to keep in mind when comparing T2 items with 'best named' or faction items:
Named and Faction items rely on drops or LPs, unlike T2 items which can be manufactured directly. T2 may not always be better than named or faction, but it's more readily available. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.18 14:53:00 -
[21]
thats true bronson, but check how many rolled tungsten there are on the market - the t2 plates should have something going for them, more armor, less mass, anyhting. -
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.18 15:01:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Varrakk
Being T2, doesnt make it automatically better then any T1/Named modules.
LSE t2? Time for nerf?
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NeoTheo
Final Conflict UK SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.18 15:26:00 -
[23]
its the same with ECM's.
the hypnos and the t2 are exatly the same, and there is no acompanying bonus for using the t2 ones (like say the skill improves something if your using a t2 device like missiles).
the only real thing you can say is that certainly with guns (not sure this is right with plates), the names ones (meta level 4 ones) cost a freakin fortune, and t2 stuff is cheaper.
but yes, this whole issue needs to be looked at, all you armor tankers can stop getting your knickers in a twist with regards to LSE's - its not just armor thats efffect by this, its a whole heap of modules and its not consistent across the board.
/Theo.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.18 18:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah
U missed the point mate. I'm not complaining that T1 is better than T2, but if there's no difference at all, the T2 is obsolete. As T2 usually has higher CPU/PG requirements, CCP just has either to reduce mass or add some more HP to that T2 plattes and everyone is free to decide what fits best on his ship.
There are many, many modules in the game that are like that.
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Zanon Xiu
EnTech Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.18 18:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: NeoTheo its the same with ECM's.
the hypnos and the t2 are exatly the same, and there is no acompanying bonus for using the t2 ones (like say the skill improves something if your using a t2 device like missiles).
the only real thing you can say is that certainly with guns (not sure this is right with plates), the names ones (meta level 4 ones) cost a freakin fortune, and t2 stuff is cheaper.
but yes, this whole issue needs to be looked at, all you armor tankers can stop getting your knickers in a twist with regards to LSE's - its not just armor thats efffect by this, its a whole heap of modules and its not consistent across the board.
/Theo.
i guess a few of you guys are missing the point about t2 plates and well ecm. t2 can be made, and if your in 0.0 40 jumps away from highsec you know how important that means. yes you can go hours killing rats to see if a few of the meta 4 items drop. But when at war or you need to defend your space after losing a ship. these "Lame t2s suddenly have value because they are aval since they were made.
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pandymen
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.18 18:29:00 -
[26]
^^ take it from my fellow bruce above.
There is no need to change it. If t2 isn't better, then use t1 named. I see no issue. You shouldn't really have anything invested in seeing t2 get boosted unless you dumbly bought a t2 plate bpo.
t2 can be produced, so if drop rates on tungsten ever change and the price goes up, t2 will be better. T2 in general is equal to best t1 named for many mods except t1 named takes less cpu/pg and often has better cap usage.
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Caligulus
Legion of Lost Souls
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Posted - 2008.02.18 18:49:00 -
[27]
The best T1 metas are less skill intensive and fitting intensive and often very similar to their T2 counterparts. T2 is more skill intensive to fit but it's benefit is in it's ability to be produced. A second benefit which comes and goes depending on the market is because it can be made it's less rare which drives the cost down. So in summary:
T1 Best Named: Pros: -easier fitting -similar (if not better) than T2 attributes
Cons: -rare = expensive
T2: Pros: -Good Attributes -Can be invented and produced "anywhere" -Less expensive then top named items (typically but not always)
Cons: -higher skill requirements -higher fitting costs
It's relatively balanced and makes good sense to me. In this case nerfing the drop rate on rolled tungsten's might bring this more into line. They tend to drop pretty often. ------------------------------------------------- **** You're out of your mind!
**** Well that's between me and my mind. |
Borasao
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Posted - 2008.02.18 21:25:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Borasao on 18/02/2008 21:25:08
Originally by: NoNah Higher mass, grid and CPU on it. Would put it in line with just about all forms of ew(including webs and nos).
The advantage for t2 tends to be the fact that they can be produced, contrary to named modules.
And are usually cheaper to buy... a little harder to fit but sometimes price is what wins it for a fit if you can spare the cpu/grid.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.18 22:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: pandymen You shouldn't really have anything invested in seeing t2 get boosted unless you dumbly bought a t2 plate bpo.
And you really dont see anyhting wrong with that? Its a t2 bpo, rare and should be worth something, the item itself requires time and effort to build.
No item in this game should be obsolote but have a reason to be used, if its for low skills or fitting requirements, better attributes or availability.
In this case with the current droprate the t2 plate has nothing going for it, i sure as hell think that its easier for you bruce guys to haul hundreds of tungsten plates into fountain then bringing the materials to build a t2 plate and build it there. -
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Adeena Torcfist
Caldari Dark Underground Forces
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Posted - 2008.02.18 23:17:00 -
[30]
well, i had a look at the faction LSE & its no better than the T2 IMO.
only differece is the about 3 m of sig radius. with 3 fitted, it probably aint gunna make any difference, ur still gunna get hit. Being faction, im sorry, should be either less req &/or more HP's
as for the 1600 plates, yes, im sorry, but they need a buff too. I fail to see how plating ur hull requires PG. it slows u down anyway, so it aint compenating for anything.
Buff them plates
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