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Dipluz
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 10:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
I would like to propose some following changes, so that Eve is more dynamic, and the different aspects and areas reflect better, on how different areas (nullsec, lowsec, highsec & wormholespace) Reflect properly on risk vs reward when it comes on the income side.
I feel this is needed when 66%~ of the population lives in highsec. This should prove enough of a reason to the population of eve, that highsec is way to profitable to ever bother going to explore lowsec/nullsec/wormhole space.
Im not saying this to force people to move to another area for us evil pirates/gankers/blobbers from huge alliances, so we have more targets. But as I see it t oday showing on each devblog on how the population is spread. I feel this is a neccesary step so that people properly explore the riches around eve. I know that low sec already dosent have too many things that draws people to it atm, and CCP is addressing this.
And EvE is a sandbox game where you do what you want, but as it is today Risk VS Reward, is not properly set.
Specially is this to Level 4 missions.
What I want done.
Readjust the Loyaltypoint income of Level 4 missions by 25-40%. So that it comes in line with the risk vs reward of the other aspects of the game. And other highsec activities (highsec incursions done properly and ETC)
Some reasoning to this:
I am a 7 year veteran (bittervet) of this game. Not famous of any kind just enjoy this game, but as I see theres PLENTY of territory for those who are willing to risk to get reward. When I after 4months of playing back in the "old days" I was tired of highsec already ( yes I did live in highsec after my first couple of nullsec lives), I took the chance of going to 0.0 to join the big alliances. And the riches that would come to me for taking that risk.
Today I feel its another story. You have so much income from level 4 missions, through loyalty points, all agents today has no Quality level anymore which means you can spread out evenly and lower the risk even more for highsec ganks/plays, I feel that through this there is no risk except for dieing in a mission, bring a logistics alt and there you go totally risk free income.
I would like some of the CSM candidates to view this and take a position on this, though alter my proposal as you see fit. Cya on fanfest guys! |
Aulus Vel
Trance Genesis
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 11:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
I approve. |
Dipluz
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 11:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Please do press the like button then :) |
Battle On
Jita Exiles Cowpunching Overlords With Sovereignty
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 12:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
i think the only thing they need to adjust is the mining sector. these days mining isnt that safe at it was. there are too many gankers these days and you can easily pop a hulk with boosts and an orca supporting it with just 2 or maybe 3 low sp destroyers. so the risk has gone up but the reward hasnt. therefor i think there needs to be something new for miners. also you can only mine for 6mill/hour with a decent hulk. this is just way too low. Incursions and missions shouldnt get any asjustments simply because they are already good. at the moment you can make around 40-60mil/hour doing lvl 4 missions + salvaging them. this is easily doable without any high risks. incursion require communication skills, a group of people and still has a high risk of losing your ship. also you need to have a good ship + good skills to run them good enough to be able to contest other fleets. therefor the reward is higher and is at a steady 70-120mill Exploration in highsec still has a high reward but requires the skills to scan sites.
so really if you compare it all, the only thing that needs to be adjust is the mining sector. the rest is balanced |
Dipluz
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 13:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Battle On wrote:i think the only thing they need to adjust is the mining sector. these days mining isnt that safe at it was. there are too many gankers these days and you can easily pop a hulk with boosts and an orca supporting it with just 2 or maybe 3 low sp destroyers. so the risk has gone up but the reward hasnt. therefor i think there needs to be something new for miners. also you can only mine for 6mill/hour with a decent hulk. this is just way too low. Incursions and missions shouldnt get any asjustments simply because they are already good. at the moment you can make around 40-60mil/hour doing lvl 4 missions + salvaging them. this is easily doable without any high risks. incursion require communication skills, a group of people and still has a high risk of losing your ship. also you need to have a good ship + good skills to run them good enough to be able to contest other fleets. therefor the reward is higher and is at a steady 70-120mill Exploration in highsec still has a high reward but requires the skills to scan sites.
so really if you compare it all, the only thing that needs to be adjust is the mining sector. the rest is balanced
40-60mill isk a hour for lvl4 missions is way to high, in a space where you cant really be ganked unless your stupid. For running anomalies in 0.0, you get also 50-80mill isk a hour, where anyone can kill you, which I belivie it is a little to low comparison to lvl4 missions when you factor in the risk.
When it comes to mining thats based out of the market price for tritanium and etc. Though for highsec ganking, it would maybe be on time for a buff of the Hulk for this matter. |
Rebirthed Follower
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 13:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
I agree with Dipluz. There is not enough people in low-sec and nullsec doing what they do in high-sec: making money for themselves.
Yes, there are lots of alliances, but you just don't see the kind of economy and traffic that high-sec has created. Missions have been drastically noob-erized so that everyone can do them. This has made it impossible for new players to want anything other than easy ISK.
Changing something must be done. Don't force people to move, but make it encouraging.
THERES GOLD IN THEM THARRRRR HILLS! |
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
70
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 13:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Good now adjust nullsec to reflect the near risk less lifestyle for huge rewards
Removing local is a good start there then either cutting faction/ded/officer item drop rates and rat bounty's by at least 30% while reducing the number of faction spawns too and/or making plexs harder to do so no more solo tengus
That should help with the risk free nullsec isk printing machine
ps. before you start whining and crying that nullsec had risk remember about those intel channels and the risk free intel local provides at least this way you will have to risk something for your reward.
Let the nullsec carebear tears flow. |
Kimbeau Surveryor
Stapeley House
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 13:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Whilst I am prepared to accept that reward rebalancing may be needed, I don't actually think this will get more people into lower sec space. In fact, by making stuff more expensive to re-equip, it might have the opposite effect.
People chose to live in hi-sec because they are that sort of person. Avid PvPers may find it hard to accept that spoiling someone else's day is not something that everyone gets off on. (I know that that's not what PvP is really about, but it is what hi-sec folk perceive it to be about. After all, the only experience of PvP that most of them have is when some ganker spoils their day.) |
Dipluz
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 13:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:Good now adjust nullsec to reflect the near risk less lifestyle for huge rewards
Removing local is a good start there then either cutting faction/ded/officer item drop rates and rat bounty's by at least 30% while reducing the number of faction spawns too and/or making plexs harder to do so no more solo tengus
That should help with the risk free nullsec isk printing machine
ps. before you start whining and crying that nullsec had risk remember about those intel channels and the risk free intel local provides at least this way you will have to risk something for your reward.
Let the nullsec carebear tears flow.
Removing local is a dumb thing, go to wormhoel space if you want 0.0 without local, its needed for corporation/alliance organsational use like intel channels, fleet ops etc. If you really think that intel channels and local really helps too much, you give up before youve even properly tried catching people in anomalies, belts etc. dont be lazy use directonal scanner etc.
We are a small corp in a 160man alliance and we have very large amount of kills even with local. so removing that has no proper purpose. faction/ded/officer spawns is the only thing holding 0.0 people in 0.0, if you limit that you will have a HUGE spike in people just living in highsec. beacuse its risk free. Not all systems is upgraded with super lvl5 ded complex upgrades, beacuse of politics and etc. Maybe you should live more in 0.0 before you posted this, you seem very unexperienced with 0.0. ive lived in 0.0 for properly around 5-6 years time on and off. |
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
70
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 13:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arr theres the whining i was looking for trying to wriggle out of the fact your nothing more than a mad emo raging little carebear how pathetic
please cry more i will enjoy the day your isk printing press is nerfed |
|
Dipluz
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 13:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kimbeau Surveryor wrote:Whilst I am prepared to accept that reward rebalancing may be needed, I don't actually think this will get more people into lower sec space. In fact, by making stuff more expensive to re-equip, it might have the opposite effect.
People chose to live in hi-sec because they are that sort of person. Avid PvPers may find it hard to accept that spoiling someone else's day is not something that everyone gets off on. (I know that that's not what PvP is really about, but it is what hi-sec folk perceive it to be about. After all, the only experience of PvP that most of them have is when some ganker spoils their day.)
Making stuff more expensive dosent help anyone, the rebalance of isk income is the thing, beacuse people will take risks if they can earn more money, other places. but it has to be a risk that is rewardring to overcome.
|
Dipluz
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 13:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:Arr theres the whining i was looking for trying to wriggle out of the fact your nothing more than a mad emo raging little carebear how pathetic
please cry more i will enjoy the day your isk printing press is nerfed
Tbh I couldnt care much abou isk printing, im trying to find a way to encourage the people who makes enough isk doing lvl4's to even bother taking a couple of chances to go out to 0.0 and join alliances,corporations who live out t here. Take part in bigger communities than sitting in their 40man highsec corp, do nothing more than do lvl4 missions till they either, gets ganked by people like me beacuse hey, theres no more targets in nullsec.
Or they quit the game beacuse they grow tired of lvl4 missions beacuse wtf is the point of having billions of isk if you have nothing more to buy beacuse hey bigger ships cant be flown in highsec or hey now I own ALL pirate battleships my goal in this game is fufilled. |
Dipluz
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
10
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 14:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ofcourse people, we cannot force people to move to lowsec or nullsec/WH space. and I dont see buffing anomaly hunting in 0.0 a solution, but reducing the lucrative lvl4 mission income, is a way for people to look elsewhere. beacuse the income in a game like eve is important (dont fly anything you cannot afford to loose).
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2107
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 14:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:Good now adjust nullsec to reflect the near risk less lifestyle for huge rewards
Removing local is a good start there then either cutting faction/ded/officer item drop rates and rat bounty's by at least 30% while reducing the number of faction spawns too and/or making plexs harder to do so no more solo tengus
That should help with the risk free nullsec isk printing machine
ps. before you start whining and crying that nullsec had risk remember about those intel channels and the risk free intel local provides at least this way you will have to risk something for your reward.
Let the nullsec carebear tears flow.
shut up idiot yeah no i'm not actually running for csm7
got you lol!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Bal'Ayle
The Illuminatii Mildly Intoxicated
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 15:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
the isk vs reward does need to be tweaked a bit i do agree - for me i live in null sec - i cant get into a carrier and short of teamin up with other characters ratting is a first come to belt first get reward situation with me and my ratting BS
but something that bugs me is that null sec is far too safe a place to be unless you come thru into a gate camp or get caught by a fleet there really isnt anything about here that can kill you - and half the time its more dangerous in high sec due to the ganking. i think making the reward a little less is the wrong way to do it, simply make it a bit harder - more scrambling rats, more dps and more randomisation of rat sets so a simple cookie cutter fit no longer is the be all end all in missions. even more distance between sites would reduce the isk per hour on travel alone
as for working on mining the reward isnt as obvious as scrape a rock sell the dust - mining is only less profitable for people in high sec becuase there is no risk at all (from the game itself) and its very time consuming, what with all the bots etc available with a google search the only way to increase your income is to move to null like me and mine here where you can make a LOT more isk just out of ores.
OR go full industry and manufacture things out here with the ore you mine. risk vs rewards -> mining here is risky so its also good for iskies
i can manufacture shuttles out of ore gained by reprocessing other peoples loot they leave with a nocits. then that shuttle sells for 300,000.00 isk - that profit is insane from 20 mins harvesting 1 site giving me enough ore to make 50 with no bother.
a couple mil investment like im doing get a pos up in a system and start manufacturing ammunition.
in a fleet people pay insane ammounts for ammunition out here -> ur 3m trit might get you 9m isk in high sec, manufacture some ammo out of that and you can get 90m in a day or two from the same ammount of effort.
what i want to see is null sec stations offering missions in local space - a lvl3 in null would be reidulously rewarding compared to a lvl3 in high |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2976
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 15:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dipluz wrote:Hi,
I would like to propose some following changes, so that Eve is more dynamic, and the different aspects and areas reflect better, on how different areas (nullsec, lowsec, highsec & wormholespace) Reflect properly on risk vs reward when it comes on the income side.
I feel this is needed when 66%~ of the population lives in highsec. This should prove enough of a reason to the population of eve, that highsec is way to profitable to ever bother going to explore lowsec/nullsec/wormhole space.
Im not saying this to force people to move to another area for us evil pirates/gankers/blobbers from huge alliances, so we have more targets. But as I see it t oday showing on each devblog on how the population is spread. I feel this is a neccesary step so that people properly explore the riches around eve. I know that low sec already dosent have too many things that draws people to it atm, and CCP is addressing this.
And EvE is a sandbox game where you do what you want, but as it is today Risk VS Reward, is not properly set.
Specially is this to Level 4 missions.
What I want done.
Readjust the Loyaltypoint income of Level 4 missions by 25-40%. So that it comes in line with the risk vs reward of the other aspects of the game. And other highsec activities (highsec incursions done properly and ETC)
Some reasoning to this:
I am a 7 year veteran (bittervet) of this game. Not famous of any kind just enjoy this game, but as I see theres PLENTY of territory for those who are willing to risk to get reward. When I after 4months of playing back in the "old days" I was tired of highsec already ( yes I did live in highsec after my first couple of nullsec lives), I took the chance of going to 0.0 to join the big alliances. And the riches that would come to me for taking that risk.
Today I feel its another story. You have so much income from level 4 missions, through loyalty points, all agents today has no Quality level anymore which means you can spread out evenly and lower the risk even more for highsec ganks/plays, I feel that through this there is no risk except for dieing in a mission, bring a logistics alt and there you go totally risk free income.
I would like some of the CSM candidates to view this and take a position on this, though alter my proposal as you see fit. Cya on fanfest guys!
Won't this just increase the value of LP? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
808
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 19:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dipluz wrote: boring rabble by null sec random pawn
I'll agree with you the day where null sec will be free o absolutely all the null sec rating bots (hundreds and even thousands of those but seems ccp can't do a crap about it)
Because a single rating bot in null sec in his drake is completely intouchable, and does for about 700M to over 1B a day. Where's your risk when you know CCP can't do a **** about it and that your perfect bot docks/kiss the poss if some neutral appears? C'mon intelligent guy I'm sure you have an answer al made for this.
Now there are hundreds of those in Tengus and carriers, what is your proposal about this?
So your ols rabble about high sec income not only is flawded but it's once again to previlege those already crawling on billions of isk, the same ones buying characters on toons bazaar very often, most of those have lots of alts since it's easy to pay their sub right?
Idiot ideas are idiot. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2110
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 20:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Dipluz wrote: boring rabble by null sec random pawn I'll agree with you the day where null sec will be free o absolutely all the null sec rating bots (hundreds and even thousands of those but seems ccp can't do a crap about it) Because a single rating bot in null sec in his drake is completely intouchable, and does for about 700M to over 1B a day. Where's your risk when you know CCP can't do a **** about it and that your perfect bot docks/kiss the poss if some neutral appears? C'mon intelligent guy I'm sure you have an answer al made for this. Now there are hundreds of those in Tengus and carriers, what is your proposal about this? So your ols rabble about high sec income not only is flawded but it's once again to previlege those already crawling on billions of isk, the same ones buying characters on toons bazaar very often, most of those have lots of alts since it's easy to pay their sub right? Idiot ideas are idiot.
it's as if you've totally glossed over l4 bots, because of course nobody bots in highsec yeah no i'm not actually running for csm7
got you lol!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2110
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 20:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
"no he's just running his level 4s very enthusiastically, that's why he doesn't respond to convos and why he's out for 18 hours a day" yeah no i'm not actually running for csm7
got you lol!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Della Monk
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 22:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Slap Sleeper/Incursion AI into all npcs, should shake things up a bit. |
|
Laechyd Eldgorn
Molden Heath Angels
27
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 23:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
i have just one question
how does the one make any freaking money if not wh's or incursions
incursion lp has apparently inflated also normal level 4 lp stores to nearly bull value, doing level 4's in low or null seems pretty pointless, go figure. it seems botting level 4's in hi sec/null sec is still profitable though
or titan ratting.
wait there might be hidden bonus questions |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
406
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 00:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
ban npc corp forum alts from csm forums |
Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
132
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 14:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
This will never work. As has been explained on a million other thread about this, you will NEVER get the risk adverse players in hi sec to play in low/null. I have no idea why you even want to force them to.
Some people are happy to mine all day. Some like building ships. Others like to dabble in the markets. A big chunk in hi sec like to run missions. More power to them. Whatever it takes for them to log in and enjoy EVE their way.
Missions are boring as sin once you've run them for the millionth time and eventually people will get bored and will want to try new things. There's no need to nerf it, just stop adding content to it so it becomes boring so quickly that anything else in low/null will seem really entertaining in comparison.
This way you don't annoy a large portion of the players (hi sec people outnumber low/null by a huge margin, don't forget this) that want to continue running missions.
I would also take issue with the people in this thread stating there's risk in low/null for ratting and plexing.
Once you are in a system, there's virtually no way in hell you can die to anything unless you are stupid and don't watch intel channels or local. I personally have sat for a day running plexes in Branch with not another soul in the system in all the time I was there. Where's the risk there? Time to nerf null judging by the OP's logic.
The only real risk is travelling through the gates but Jump Bridges reduce a lot of that. As it stands I think hi sec is actually more dangerous as there's an awful lot of neutrals around that may or may not gank/pod you for lulz. Mission runners have risks as well from griefers and ninjas.
Hi sec is safer but not totally safe as you will see if you bother to check stats on the map for kills in the last hour and 24 hours. Most of the big red blobs are in hi sec!!
TL;DR don't encourage CCP to nerf anything else. Just don't add anymore content for missions in hi sec. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
810
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 16:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Smiling Menace wrote:This will never work. As has been explained on a million other thread about this, you will NEVER get the risk adverse players in hi sec to play in low/null. I have no idea why you even want to force them to.
Yet it's by far more dangerous to undock in high sec than in null sec, believe me I don't play this game seriously for a long time (1.5 year at better and few try before) but I've spent more time playing missions in high sec than any activity in null sec and you can believe when I tell you null sec is 0 risk if you learn the simple basics that are BM's and watch local.
BM's and watch local+ standings, something it's impossible in high sec, you don't even know if it's a guy in your own corp that is going to gank you (NPC corps), you never know if the smalest ship in the belt next to you is there to try to can flip you or just the warp in for the gank gang, and what about jita and all the other big trade hubs? Those are no mans land and where you can figure easily how concord reaction/coding is a joke.
There are far hundreds more faction/officer fitted BS/Tengus rating safely in null sec than you will ever see in the greatest mission hubs in high sec all together. Then add all the carrier/super carrier/titan faction/officer fit rating dudes and cry me a river about high sec income that needs to be nerfed.
What needs to be nerfed in high sec is how easy it is for some risk averse pubbies to gank for max profit with 0 effort. And don't start talking about SS because the one trying to will look like another stupid pawn incapable to understand that in a single couple of hours if you kill 1bs rat per system and move on in null/low your SS raises at ridiculous speeds. Gank is a valid tactic but should not be the stupid mongoloid gameplay that is today and SS farming should be a real pain for months on a daily farming basis to get back to normal.
What needs to be nerfed is how easy it is to high sec risk averse pubbies that call them selves "pirates" to keep their free risk activity whilist destroying the game for a lot of players and also kicking CCP right in the balls because those customers gone will hardly return. Kick them from high sec, make them get instantly ganked by concord and local police if they ever undock with something else than their pod, make those risk averse pubbies really play the game and lets see then how much high sec income needs to be nerfed. I can't wait to see those "elite pvp" pubbies come to null and have a taste of my auto canons But you know what? -they will probably leave the game, because they are risk averse and everything they like is to fap in front of their Kb full of mission faction fited BS ganked freighters at the undocks and awesome pvp stuff alike with the obvious neutral alts for jams and reps. Let them leave, hope they get their ass kicked by the door closing.
Quote:Missions are boring as sin once you've run them for the millionth time and eventually people will get bored and will want to try new things. There's no need to nerf it, just stop adding content to it so it becomes boring so quickly that anything else in low/null will seem really entertaining in comparison.
Missions are boring in your personal opinion, by the way they're so boring as you say that the richest players in eve did a lot of those gazillions isk they swim in all day long by selling Omega implants they got with LP's, and guess what? -those are null sec pirate missions, awesome, it's really boring 1B the implant actually in Jita heh?
It's the oposite that must be done, lvl5 in null/low no one does them, bring them to high sec, crush the lp's market, people will eventually get bored and start using a lot more faction ships/fit for pvp, isn't that nice? Actually who wins something with LP's? Incursion runners (that are the sames all the time in high sec and the sames in null sec), they get gazillions of LP's they transform later in whatever empire lp's and so on, plus see their wallet blink like you could only dream of. The issue is that incursions are not for the common player, you need to have a lot of spare time and play with the same dudes a lot, try to join an high sec incursion just like that and see what happens, if you're not all 5's with the pubbie vindicator's fit he wishes and same for whatever ship you can always sit ther and wait, it's wow on steroids but worst.
Quote: Time to nerf null judging by the OP's logic.
Exactly but not no matter how. Just nerf tech moon and all moon minerals to the ground and bring those to all players instead of some in the alliance. Alliance and Corporations wealth should come from the number of rich players in and willing to put their isk on the table to control/keep something, not from afk/passive/whatever stuff any idiot with an Iteron quafe plus can suck up just by installing a pos in 10minutes and threat everyone because he can drop hundred titans/sc's
Some are already working on POCOS taxes and increasing the taxes to their own alliance mates at 15% (saw this lately in goon space, seems their alliance mates are getting 15% butt hugs, and some other regions in other alliances at 5%) CCP nerf this, if it's not NPC POCOS then tax should not be possible to raise above 10% by alliances, and I'm quite sure that even at 10% tax rate the monthly income per POCO starts at least at 1billion profit.
What needs to be nerfed is how easy it is for some megacorp or alliance to sit there and get gazillions of isk out of no where with rents, taxes, PI taxes, bounty tax, moon goo and a lot of more funky stuff.
Actually high sec and null sec mechanics are so flawded by "players driven content", but mostly ability to exploit basic rules, that CCP will not have the choice at some point but to make high sec totaly safe and increase significantly wars in null sec. |
Dipluz
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
16
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 16:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
The reason why highsec can be dangerous is that you do missions all at the same place, its a reason why CCP removed the quality level, is beacuse a lot of missioners in highsec is stacked in 1 system, highsec isnt risk free. you will still get concord unless your stupid and play the bait of the griefers. When I did missions in highsec I was smart to not take their bait, even though this is some time ago.
If more people moved to nullsec it wouldnt be so risk free. That is the reason I want more people to come to 0.0, that is why I made this proposal. And Jump-bridges is not as safe as it used to be, just run around and camp the stargets between the JB systems, which me and my corp has done for a year in drone russian space. and this has fruited around 1700 kills in about 9months time.
http://notorious.killmail.org/?a=cc_detail&ctr_id=12060
|
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
311
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 16:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Agreed in principle, basically the flow should go like this:
Lowest income - highest safety - Hisec Lowsec is VERY dangerous, income should be substantially higher than hisec in every aspect Nullsec is VERY dangerous but can be made safer by utilising huge amounts of isk and man hours to do so so should have the highest income Wormhole space should be roughly in line with Nullsec in income as the dangers and so on are similar in elevel but different in nature.
You should never be able to make the most isk in the safest environment, which currently you can. And dont be a **** and tell me how hisec is dangerous, its only dangerous if you are stupid. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
71
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Posted - 2012.02.18 19:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
you think nullsec is VERY dangerous lol pathetic highsec carebears dont have a clue |
Vaurion Infara
Beyond Divinity Inc Excuses.
18
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Posted - 2012.02.18 20:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Here's the essential problem I see, and it's easily observable. Prices on everything has been going through the roof, and it's because of isk inflation. As it stands, with incursions, FW missions, plexing, etc. there is too much isk being poured onto the market with no actual products being added, for the most part. Prices go up, and mining becomes less attractive because people see how much money you can make on incursions and the like. Mining just doesn't compete anymore as a way to make isk, so less items are being built, making prices go up again.
MickeyFinn > Fyi Vaurion Infara is a bad apple in a bunch of good ones. Dont let his big mouth and moods bring you down! If anyone lives near him RL get him LAID! would help him a ton. Fly safe and gods speed. |
Lithely Jaine
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
0
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Posted - 2012.02.19 06:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Vaurion Infara wrote:Here's the essential problem I see, and it's easily observable. Prices on everything has been going through the roof, and it's because of isk inflation. As it stands, with incursions, FW missions, plexing, etc. there is too much isk being poured onto the market with no actual products being added, for the most part. Prices go up, and mining becomes less attractive because people see how much money you can make on incursions and the like. Mining just doesn't compete anymore as a way to make isk, so less items are being built, making prices go up again.
No. You forgot the key part of Where is most of the Minerals are coming from.
Hint. it's not High sec :P |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
1346
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Posted - 2012.02.19 08:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Offtopic posts removed.
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2884
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Posted - 2012.02.19 11:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
Considering your "7 Year Old Veteran" posts are not very insightful or indeed reminiscent of anything like your supposed seven year experience, I'm just going to go ahead and file your proposal in the bin, thanks.
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
23
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Posted - 2012.02.19 18:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
They should modify all payouts regardless of location with output from an algorithm containing "residents", "visitors" and "deaths" (read: base it on actual risk rather than theoretical risk).
But of course, that would mean lowsec gets the best income as it has the most risk with null a distant second so doubtful that such a thing makes it by the null censors |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2997
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Posted - 2012.02.19 19:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'd like to propose a different way of looking at hi-sec incomes: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=26049 Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
58
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Posted - 2012.02.19 21:23:00 -
[34] - Quote
Dipluz wrote:same old stuff!
I fail to understand why so many miss the point.
In the balance between risk and reward perhaps it is not the reward that needs balancing but the risk. Things stay in high sec because so many players are risk averse. CCP has tried many times (at the whims of folks like the OP) to adjust this but far too often they miss the mark.
You could move all level 4 missions, ice, datacore production and the like to low sec or 0.0 and it would have a far less profound affect than adjusting risk.
Case in point?
T3 interdiction nullification and sensor amplification modules. The rewards did not change yet far more people were (are) willing to risk sneaking into lower security since there was the perceived chance they might survive more than a few seconds.
Just a few ideas. Make NPC pirates more likely to attack new people that enter a complex or deadspace. Allow modules that can burst confuse probes allowing for a speedy get away. Create tanky industrials and exhumers that can actually defend themselves or at least survive the most trivial attacks.
Changing rewards will not affect behavior (other than cancelled subscriptions). Instead, adjust mechanics that make it more possible to evade and survive in lawless space in a PVE ship. No matter how much you adjust rewards a large number of people will find it more profitable to simply do more volume of the activity that is safer than less volume of an activity they perceive guarantees loss.
My 2 isks
Patri
Miners! Make Moar Isks Nao! |
Tekashi Kovacs
Golfclap Inc
3
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Posted - 2012.02.19 22:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Decreasing an hi-sec rewards will NEVER EVER bring more people to low-sec/0.0. Get over it and stop being jealous OP. |
Dipluz
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
17
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Posted - 2012.02.19 22:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tekashi Kovacs wrote:Decreasing an hi-sec rewards will NEVER EVER bring more people to low-sec/0.0. Get over it and stop being jealous OP.
jealous ? ehm that I will never be of highsec of anything in life. |
Mechael
Team Pizza Viro Mors Non Est
36
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Posted - 2012.02.20 08:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
Just get level 4's out of highsec altogether. What on earth are all of the pirate battleships that are hostile to all of the factions AND concord doing in a 1.0 security system, anyway?
+1 to the OP, because it's better than leaving this problem alone. I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Mechael
Team Pizza Viro Mors Non Est
36
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Posted - 2012.02.20 08:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:They should modify all payouts regardless of location with output from an algorithm containing "residents", "visitors" and "deaths" (read: base it on actual risk rather than theoretical risk). But of course, that would mean lowsec gets the best income as it has the most risk with null a distant second so doubtful that such a thing makes it by the null censors
This would be great, and is an idea that can be expanded on. I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
815
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Posted - 2012.02.22 12:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
Andski wrote:Tanya Powers wrote:Dipluz wrote: boring rabble by null sec random pawn I'll agree with you the day where null sec will be free o absolutely all the null sec rating bots (hundreds and even thousands of those but seems ccp can't do a crap about it) Because a single rating bot in null sec in his drake is completely intouchable, and does for about 700M to over 1B a day. Where's your risk when you know CCP can't do a **** about it and that your perfect bot docks/kiss the poss if some neutral appears? C'mon intelligent guy I'm sure you have an answer al made for this. Now there are hundreds of those in Tengus and carriers, what is your proposal about this? So your ols rabble about high sec income not only is flawded but it's once again to previlege those already crawling on billions of isk, the same ones buying characters on toons bazaar very often, most of those have lots of alts since it's easy to pay their sub right? Idiot ideas are idiot. it's as if you've totally glossed over l4 bots, because of course nobody bots in highsec
Who cares of your rabble? - besides bot users or individuals who never step on high sec because they don't need, no one on his right mind will not change this fact simple fact that yes there are probably a lot of bots in high sec but there's not where they are for the most and where they are the most profitable.
Hello drones regions? -ho boy with mineral prices right now those dudes are doing gazillions of isk per month, they don't need tech crap
Rats (BS) with bounty starting at 650K up to 1.2M in belts, sanctums, heavens, forsakens, faction spawns etc you can kill those indefinitely as long as you have ammo in your cargo and never stop to loot because will make you loose isk/h. All you need is a safe spot BM or POS whenever nutral/red shown up, who can assure it's a bot or not?
Now tell us all about high sec bots and how you, so smart, identify those to state that high sec is all about bots and more than in null sec. What about start cleaning your own homelands and alliance/corps before rabble about high sec? Every one in null knows your null sec alliances politics, you're not cops and it's not your job to help CCP clean bots, you even threat to purge those individuals or corps who might have reported bots. Bravo big guy.
I hunt in every alliance systems enough to safely say the only way to make far more isk in high sec than rating in null is to do incursions but even then, compare what it can be, null sec incursions are hundred times more profitable and those are done almost 24h/7 just like in high sec (I know a few doing it to pay themselves the titan or the SC and the guy with enough spare time in his day can double/triple high sec billions incursions income easily.
Propaganda, myths, is all you can do about high sec because you're either the greatest idiot on earth and can't see what happens in high sec or you're just another of those who comes back playing after a few years and think he's back in stone age... wake up dude. |
Mallak Azaria
Dominus Nex Angelus
57
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Posted - 2012.02.23 03:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
Battle On wrote:i think the only thing they need to adjust is the mining sector. these days mining isnt that safe at it was. there are too many gankers these days and you can easily pop a hulk with boosts and an orca supporting it with just 2 or maybe 3 low sp destroyers. so the risk has gone up but the reward hasnt. therefor i think there needs to be something new for miners. also you can only mine for 6mill/hour with a decent hulk. this is just way too low. Incursions and missions shouldnt get any asjustments simply because they are already good. at the moment you can make around 40-60mil/hour doing lvl 4 missions + salvaging them. this is easily doable without any high risks. incursion require communication skills, a group of people and still has a high risk of losing your ship. also you need to have a good ship + good skills to run them good enough to be able to contest other fleets. therefor the reward is higher and is at a steady 70-120mill Exploration in highsec still has a high reward but requires the skills to scan sites.
so really if you compare it all, the only thing that needs to be adjust is the mining sector. the rest is balanced
You completely missed the point the OP was making. I don't really care so much about the highsec miners. To me, mining in highsec completely defeats the purpose of mining in the first place.
As for missions... I've been running them on & off for the past year-ish taking a break from 0.0 & such... Even I agree that the ammount of isk I'm earning in highsec with little risk is too high. I won't even start on Incursions...
OP, I agree with you completely.
+1
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Last Lefts
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.02.23 14:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nullsec is boring.
Quit complaining about overbuffed highsec payouts and make nullsec worth playing in.
Then look at whether highsec payouts are too high. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
210
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
ItGÇÖs really the entire reward system, and not just high-sec income, that needs tweaking. The system should reward people for:
1.) Dynamic Risks (based on the likelihood of losing your ship/pod to NPC's and/or Players). 2.) Investment Risks (be it raw isk, time, and/or structures in space). 3.) Social Risks (reward working as a group, especially if violating the social trust results in losses).
Most of the time, the Risks from NPCs are much less than the risks from players, and this needs to be heavily accounted for. On the surface, our system attempts the above, but has enough skewed areas to throw the current system out of balance!
IMO, high-sec incursions do provide too much reward for their risk when compared to most lowsec/nullsec opportunities. They essentially break the risk vs reward paradigm that encourages players to venture into lowsec and nullsec for "bigger" rewards. However, they also provide an extremely beneficial service to EvE by creating an environment for teamwork. And lets be frank, learning to play in a team is pretty much at the core of living in lowsec and nullsec. And I fully support game mechanics that encourage teamplay, meaning there should be definite advantages and rewards for doing so. Personally, I think the primary nerf high-sec incursions need involve truly randomizing the spawn triggers. Make it so people blitzing them in the minimum-sized groups have serious risks to earn their dough. Alternatively, they could run them in much larger groups, maintain their safety, but sacrifice their rewards in doing so!
Mission running is very much a solo activity.. It's also the standard pathway for characters to earn money and gain mock combat experience while they grow pubic hairs and venture into the more PvP oriented regions of EvE. It is also an important transition activity, where players can build up isk reserves while they transition from one area (or Corp) of the game to another. Again, actually randomizing mission spawns and probably revamping the mission tiers so the difficulty levels of missions better reflect the combat and tanking ability of today's combat vessels would be appropriate. Unfortunately, given today's classes of ships, most missions really have very little risks.
I have very little experience in lowsec, and don't feel qualified to accurately depict how things should change from how they currently are. I think that low-sec rewards should probably be just as profitable as nullsec rewards, albeit in a different manner. Meaning, I don't think low-sec should have the crazy anom-spawning income of null, but they should have very good-paying missions instead.
True nullsec rewards should involve significant investment risks as well as dynamic risks. Currently, the sov upgrade system allows for a nice investment risk, but the ability to capture any system anytime is somewhat out of line. The dynamic risks in nullsec also need review; specifically afk cloakers and hotdrops. Null-bears are typically whiny morons that make high-sec carebears look like hardcore bittervets. Just look at all the "wah, wah, afk cloaker in system prevents me from ratting, wah, wah, wah" threads. I live in nullsec, I don't have blues, and a hostile in system doesn't prevent me from ratting. Dealing with a few nuets in system should be something every nullsec capsuleer overcomes by grouping up and/or flying smart. Altering hotdrop mechanics so locals can better assess the danger a neut represents is reasonable, but either leave AFK cloakers alone, or replace local with an intel tool that leaves some pilot ambiguity before nerfing cloaks. Then, and only then, should nullsec anoms pay out better than lvl 4 missions! The point I'm trying to make with all these jabs at different game aspects, is that the risk paradigm in nullsec is should be a high-paying, but high-risk. The truth is, most null-bears want the pay, but don't want any real risk and they don't want to work in groups.
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Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
65
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Posted - 2012.02.23 19:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Dude this is a ridiculous proposal and I don't even live in high sec usually.
One of the biggest reasons that high-sec is full of "carebears" is because alliances don't need or want them.
Ask Goons or PL if they will accept your medium sized mining corp into their ranks... See what the response is.
I have said this many times.
If you move t2 production away from moons and into the 0.0 belts ONLY (not high sec belts AT ALL), then people MUST therefore mine those belts for ANY t2 production to go on ANYWHERE, AT ALL.
It would fix a great many things I feel, from the 0.0 culture of "pvpers only" to the "highsec carebear zone" to the inability of many of those industrialists to get into the t2 market because the moons and moongoo is all owned by very few.
There's heaps of reasons to do it, I'm yet to find a reason not to do it.
Manufacturing Papercuts ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Mining Profession**
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