Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 18:13:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Deathspeaker Edited by: Deathspeaker on 21/02/2008 18:10:57 Edited by: Deathspeaker on 21/02/2008 18:07:39
Originally by: Kagura Nikon To the ones say its hard to find about this. How come I found out this before I was 1 month old in game?
pff if you don read the manual (in this game the manual is the forums) then you cannot complain.
Posting this on behalf of Tivook who got his forum access temporarily banned.
You are wrong and I am entitled to complain, because I'd say at least 20% of all eve residents don't read the forums on a regular basis. Judging by your post you're assuming that everyone is like you and everyone reads the forums on a daily basis, this is not the case and will never be because people are different.
It would be strange if a BoB member came and said the same thing because they are considered hardcore and olschool, I might be oldschool but I'm not hardcore.
I play after work and like I said so far I have not had any problem with any module for 4 years because they do exactly what it says in the description which is why I did not do any additional research apart from reading the description when I bought the implants either, I'm repeating myself now but it seems like some guys need to hear it again cuz my point seems to fly over their head, like gheeeed said.
Also, again, I had a LONG discussion with them before the discussion got out of hand and my attitude took a turn to negative town.
I might have exaggerated a bit now that I look back at what I said to him, he's just an employee with superiors as well but I won't back down from the fact that it's their wrongdoing to not have the "capital shield booster not affected by this module" in the description which it seems like we all can agree on.
I will take that WarAtron dudes advice and contact a GM ingame and we'll see what happens.
Thumbs up to Gheeeeed as well, at least he's able to understand the situation.
The failures of others don't justify your own failures. The mistake of not reading the "manual"is yours and only yours. The fact that other people make same mistake don make this mistake less yours.
Someone must be really the type of person that pays attention in nothing to reach capital level pilot and never had paid attention in the very likely dozens of times you would see someone talk about dread tanks.
------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
|
Deathspeaker
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 18:14:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Arana Tellen Does it suck for you - Yes.
Are the implants useful for other ships? Yes.
Adapt.
Dude, I would if I could but it's hard to adapt when I live in 0.0, I participate heavily in fleet battles, I have never spent one second doing missions and I survive from mining.
Oh and I almost forgot, I never rat either.
Do you guys understand my frustration better now? :P
Tiv
|
Deathspeaker
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 18:18:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Deathspeaker on 21/02/2008 18:21:50 Edited by: Deathspeaker on 21/02/2008 18:19:51 You're wrong Kagura, the fault is not mine.
But I'll let you think that if it makes you feel better.
The forums might be a manual to you but nowhere in the game does it say that the game manual is the "forums".
I have my manual in my EVE box and when that was released there was no capitals ingame.
Dissapear fanboy.
Tiv
|
Deathspeaker
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 18:29:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Deathspeaker on 21/02/2008 18:29:09 I'll take an example I heard about a few years ago.
A woman tried to dry her dog after taking a walk in the rain by putting the dog in the microwave.
Dog died, she sued the microwave company for not stating in the users manual that u can't dry your pet inside the microwave.
Now, most people would say that she's stupid for even trying that and that common sense says you shouldn't do that.
She won in court.
Why? Because everyone doesn't know everything, she just didn't know how microwave technology works.
Now that woman is a very stupid example, but it's a perfect example of how far a faulty description can take you when it comes to the law.
Some people will say, don't compare games with real life but EVE is a product like every other product and a proper description is needed because a faulty description leads to faulty usage like this.
|
slothe
Caldari 0utbreak
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 18:50:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Deathspeaker Edited by: Deathspeaker on 21/02/2008 18:12:33 Edited by: Deathspeaker on 21/02/2008 18:11:57
Originally by: Kagura Nikon To the ones say its hard to find about this. How come I found out this before I was 1 month old in game?
pff if you don read the manual (in this game the manual is the forums) then you cannot complain.
Posting this on behalf of Tivook who got his forum access temporarily banned.
.
im pretty sure that a ban means precisely that, posting with an other character can only lead to more trouble with a further ban and / or warning..
|
Deathspeaker
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:18:00 -
[66]
Depends who is typing it i believe.
Forwarding something is a different story and I am just forwarding his words.
If the mods would tell me not to I would obey but so far no word on that.
|
Kay Rissa
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:31:00 -
[67]
Originally by: X99 Z990 If he gets his implants unplugged for his mistake then people should get skill training refunded for ships they dont want to fly anymore. Or attribute points redistrubuted. It doesnt say charisma is fairly useless anywhere on the character creation screen either.
Its a mistake he made and didnt research thoroughly into it and either way he hasnt lost a single thing. He got a set of crystal implants and a dread. Fair enough if it said that crystals worked with capital modules and they didnt that would be cause for complaint. But he made an asumption that they would. Tough luck. Either way you have a set of crystals and a dread and thats what you bought.
Need to be more careful with your money in future, i know if i was going to make a big investment like that i wouldnt make it based on assumptions.
YOU made a mistake and have to live with it.
Why do u say that it was his mistake ??? Since when anyone should rely on unofficial information about any item to figure out how it works ???
Unfortunately sometimes it is pointless to argue with some ppl because they r either too young or too stupid !!!
Proud member of RTSQ
ps: i dont like to kill innocent ppl, so if i killed u, u rnt innocent
|
Laura Steel
The Chaotic Order Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:37:00 -
[68]
Ingame help channels? ----
|
Kay Rissa
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:43:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Kay Rissa on 21/02/2008 19:44:42 if you buy something in real life shop with proper description and it doesnt work as it meant in the description, then you have proper right to return it to the shop.
P.S. I dont have anything to do with Tivook, I am not his alt, but I simply dont like the attitude of some ppl. Instead of supporting Tivook, many ppl turned against Him, sending him to the forums and etc
Proud member of RTSQ
ps: i dont like to kill innocent ppl, so if i killed u, u rnt innocent
|
ThatCpp
Gallente Knights Of the Black Sun
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:45:00 -
[70]
Item descriptions should always be kept up to date. But in any case, one should always do a decent amount of research before investing and significant amount of isk into something.
|
|
slothe
Caldari 0utbreak
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:50:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Deathspeaker Depends who is typing it i believe.
Forwarding something is a different story and I am just forwarding his words.
If the mods would tell me not to I would obey but so far no word on that.
well this quote...
Originally by: Deathspeaker Dude, I would if I could but it's hard to adapt when I live in 0.0, I participate heavily in fleet battles, I have never spent one second doing missions and I survive from mining.
Oh and I almost forgot, I never rat either.
Do you guys understand my frustration better now? :P
Tiv.
.. is written first person, not on behalf of another, therfore is the banned poster.
|
Deathspeaker
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:52:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Deathspeaker on 21/02/2008 19:53:04
Originally by: ThatCpp Item descriptions should always be kept up to date. But in any case, one should always do a decent amount of research before investing and significant amount of isk into something.
And he did, he checked everything he could check ingame to make sure everything was in order.
Having to resort to google should not be necessary.
He even tried to search here afterwards to see if it would've given him a clue but please, try searching for "crystal" in the upper right search box.
You will find nothing that indicates that the modules do not work with cap shield boosters.
Conclusion: Even if basic research would have been done he still probably would've bought the implants and made the same mistake, there simply isn't enough spot on information about it.
Also Slothe, point taken, but when I ctrl+c and ctrl + v from msn messenger it comes out looking like that.
|
Deathspeaker
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:57:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Kay Rissa
if you buy something in real life shop with proper description and it doesnt work as it meant in the description, then you have proper right to return it to the shop.
P.S. I dont have anything to do with Tivook, I am not his alt, but I simply dont like the attitude of some ppl. Instead of supporting Tivook, many ppl turned against Him, sending him to the forums and etc.
THE only proper solution in this matter, is to offer to EVERYONE who purchased crystals set due to this mistake(the ones who intended to use them with capital ships), to unplug them free of charge !!!
Heh I really hated the Russian Thunder Squad when you guys lived near obe in vale / the forge but you seem to be a nice bunch of guys :)
Anyway Tivook thanks for the support, it's good to know there's people around here who understands and approves of the situation at hand.
|
Life Machine
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 20:35:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Life Machine on 21/02/2008 20:35:02
Originally by: Deathspeaker
I might have exaggerated a bit now that I look back at what I said to him, he's just an employee with superiors as well but I won't back down from the fact that it's their wrongdoing
I've said it before, you're under the misconception that ISD are employees of CCP. Technically, they're just volunteers, not employees. So unless you're getting me completely confused by continually referring to them as such, were you talking about GMs or Bug Hunters?
|
Helen
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 20:52:00 -
[75]
Speak like Wierda, Deathspeaker does.
|
Dianeces
Minmatar Repo Industries
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 20:58:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Helen Speak like Wierda, Deathspeaker does.
You're doing Wierda a disservice by comparing him to this whiner.
|
Adeena Torcfist
Caldari Dark Underground Forces
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 21:23:00 -
[77]
well, im glad this popped up, now i know they dopnt work, saved me a few billion isk.
Personally, they should work on capitals. I dont see why not, shield booster amount, regardless on what class it is.
id msg him back, & ask them to unplug. all u can do really
|
Deathspeaker
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 21:40:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Adeena Torcfist well, im glad this popped up, now i know they dopnt work, saved me a few billion isk.
Personally, they should work on capitals. I dont see why not, shield booster amount, regardless on what class it is.
id msg him back, & ask them to unplug. all u can do really
Yeah.. the strange thing is that there are other implant sets that work for capital ships.. such as Slave as stated by a dev.
So why armor tanked cap ships should be able to have an armor affecting implant set but shield tanking cap ships get nothing from their respective implant set is beyond me.
Smells like a bug to me to be honest.
|
X99 Z990
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 21:47:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Kay Rissa
Originally by: X99 Z990 If he gets his implants unplugged for his mistake then people should get skill training refunded for ships they dont want to fly anymore. Or attribute points redistrubuted. It doesnt say charisma is fairly useless anywhere on the character creation screen either.
Its a mistake he made and didnt research thoroughly into it and either way he hasnt lost a single thing. He got a set of crystal implants and a dread. Fair enough if it said that crystals worked with capital modules and they didnt that would be cause for complaint. But he made an asumption that they would. Tough luck. Either way you have a set of crystals and a dread and thats what you bought.
Need to be more careful with your money in future, i know if i was going to make a big investment like that i wouldnt make it based on assumptions.
YOU made a mistake and have to live with it.
Why do u say that it was his mistake ??? Since when anyone should rely on unofficial information about any item to figure out how it works ???
Unfortunately sometimes it is pointless to argue with some ppl because they r either too young or too stupid !!!
Exactly. He was stupid enough to spend that much money on a set of crystal implants without finding out if they worked on capital modules first.
Most of this game is unofficial information.
The main problem with petitions taking so long and GMs not responding is idiots like this who expect special treatment because they make mistakes.
|
Needalift
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 21:54:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Needalift on 21/02/2008 21:54:35
Originally by: X99 Z990 Exactly. He was stupid enough to spend that much money on a set of crystal implants without finding out if they worked on capital modules first.
Most of this game is unofficial information.
The main problem with petitions taking so long and GMs not responding is idiots like this who expect special treatment because they make mistakes.
After reading all of your comments I just have one thing to say to X99 Z990.
You must be terribly narrow minded or terribly stupid to blame lack of a correct item description on the player who got affected.
Stupid stupid stupid.
Lifty
|
|
Dianeces
Minmatar Repo Industries
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 21:57:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Deathspeaker
Originally by: Adeena Torcfist well, im glad this popped up, now i know they dopnt work, saved me a few billion isk.
Personally, they should work on capitals. I dont see why not, shield booster amount, regardless on what class it is.
id msg him back, & ask them to unplug. all u can do really
Yeah.. the strange thing is that there are other implant sets that work for capital ships.. such as Slave as stated by a dev.
So why armor tanked cap ships should be able to have an armor affecting implant set but shield tanking cap ships get nothing from their respective implant set is beyond me.
Smells like a bug to me to be honest.
Shield tanking is supposed to be higher tanked DPS, at the expense of cap inefficiency. Armor tanking on the other hand, is more cap efficient, but can't tank as much burst DPS; instead, it relies on a larger buffer. That being said, you will find that the implants which increase both the shield amount and shield recharge do work on capitals, whilst the implants which boost armor rep amount and duration do not. Therefore, it can be reasonably concluded that CCP wants capital tanks to be limited by the modules they are comprised of. For your future refrence, a good rule of thumb is if an implant modifies the stats of a shield boosters or armor reps, it won't work; if it modifies the ships base stats, it will.
tl;dr: Crystals working on captials would make them crazy overpowered. Slaves don't help you tank any better, so they work.
|
X99 Z990
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 22:03:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Needalift Edited by: Needalift on 21/02/2008 21:54:35
Originally by: X99 Z990 Exactly. He was stupid enough to spend that much money on a set of crystal implants without finding out if they worked on capital modules first.
Most of this game is unofficial information.
The main problem with petitions taking so long and GMs not responding is idiots like this who expect special treatment because they make mistakes.
After reading all of your comments I just have one thing to say to X99 Z990.
You must be terribly narrow minded or terribly stupid to blame lack of a correct item description on the player who got affected.
Stupid stupid stupid.
Lifty
What a conclusion. I can only imagine you got that from the barney dvd you got last week?
|
Kosogo
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 22:11:00 -
[83]
Quote: Yeah.. the strange thing is that there are other implant sets that work for capital ships.. such as Slave as stated by a dev.
So why armor tanked cap ships should be able to have an armor affecting implant set but shield tanking cap ships get nothing from their respective implant set is beyond me.
Smells like a bug to me to be honest.
The distinction is that uber implant sets do not work for Capital modules as a rule, which is intended to balance them and prevent godlike tanks. Uber implant sets that affect ship attributes, like slaves/armour hp work exactly the same as they do on any other ship. The same goes for rigs FYI. Armour HP boosting rigs work, armour rep amount rigs do not [ on capital reppers anyway].
No bug. Vaguely documented feature. Before you shell out 2 billion on anything, including your dreadnought take it for a test run on the test server and ensure it works as you believe it should. Ask for advice from friendly dreadnought pilots on fittings/other vaguely documented features. Make a post on the forums and throw a question out there for the various people to chew on. For starters, youre probably best with as much EHP as you can get as opposed to rep amount, because if your dreadnought is seriously threatened it will also be getting neuted to hell so it wont have the cap to run an active tank for long. 0.02 cents.
On the bright side, if 2 billion is pocket change to the point where you dont research what youre buying, then youll be glad to know that you can use the crystals you bought, plus Officer XL Boosters/Amps and hardeners to create quite a good active tank on your dreadnought. Probably comparable to a normal capital tank actually Id say. You also have an awesome set of tanking implants, but probably a bit risky for PvP. Could always be worse. Might be 2 bill down and no crystal implants.
|
NoNah
Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 22:29:00 -
[84]
Edited by: NoNah on 21/02/2008 22:32:01
Originally by: Deathspeaker
And he did, he checked everything he could check ingame to make sure everything was in order.
Such as a petition or the help channel?
Originally by: Deathspeaker
Having to resort to google should not be necessary.
In a game where conditions are changing each patch - well yes, I would believe reading patch notes, checking out the forums or using google is the only good way of staying up to date, or every change(read: improvement) would be a bug.
Originally by: Deathspeaker
He even tried to search here afterwards to see if it would've given him a clue but please, try searching for "crystal" in the upper right search box.
Here you go.
Originally by: Deathspeaker
You will find nothing that indicates that the modules do not work with cap shield boosters.
Neither does searching an empty text documents for "chicken". Somewhat irrelevant wouldn't you say?
Originally by: Deathspeaker
Conclusion: Even if basic research would have been done he still probably would've bought the implants and made the same mistake, there simply isn't enough spot on information about it.
I'd say reading stickies(or their headers) would count as very basic precautions before taking a game even that obviously matters alot for the person at hand. And that very sticky is spot on?
Originally by: Deathspeaker
Also Slothe, point taken, but when I ctrl+c and ctrl + v from msn messenger it comes out looking like that.
Appreciate the effort for voiding the ban.
Postcount: 186987
|
slothe
Caldari 0utbreak
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 23:26:00 -
[85]
The 2 truths about this thread:-
1.the op has a valid point there should be a description on the item.
2. The op is an idiot.
|
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 23:33:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Laura Steel Ingame help channels?
I am not a fan of the OP or his attitude, but I hardly think it is fair for someone to visit the help channels each time they want to use a module.
Lets say I wanted to fit a Target Painter. Do I need to visit help channer for each ship size before I fit it? Should I ask in help channel for every single module I fit?
Actually, I visited help channel just to test the theory out and ask if a Synth Booster effects capital modules. The answer I got was no. This is quite laughable because I know for a fact it does work with my capital rep at least.
Therefore unofficial public sources of information, be they forums or chatrooms, are not to be expected to be 100% accurate. There is nothing wrong with asking CCP to be clear in their descriptions to avoid confusing customers. Anyone else saying that forums are for reliable information should read the COAD section
Again, I am not a fan of the OP or his attitude, but he is correct in asking CCP to give clear description where CCP provided a misleading one. Nothing wrong with that. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
|
Posted - 2008.02.21 23:55:00 -
[87]
Try petition to get the crystals removed and put in your hangar... tell them they have a misguiding description. Don't start crying if they say no - Even rookies know crystals don't affect capital ships. - I'm a nice guy!!
But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored... |
Pantaloon McPants
|
Posted - 2008.02.22 01:31:00 -
[88]
So why is this guy stupid? Because he read the item description and it didnt state that the booster wouldnt work with capitals is his fault how? CCP are to blame here by not correcting this oversight and refunding this guy, he will be the precedent and this problem wont happen again a few weeks later and upset another customer. But hey! thats too much to ask, because he might of been a bit irate (and rightly so) when he asked for customer support on this matter. Being told life/eve is hard is just a cop out really.
As for the guy that was saying our subscription barley pays for ccps toilet paper let alone customer support, if my subscription is that insignificant why the hell am i paying it every month then? I think every company has an obligation to the customer to provide some kind of support for there product.
The very least he did the right thing in posting here and saving other customers the heartache of finding this out the hard way, but ill be f&@&D if anyone will be able to find this info again in a weeks time using that crappy forum search engine.
|
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
|
Posted - 2008.02.22 02:24:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Deathspeaker Edited by: Deathspeaker on 21/02/2008 18:29:09 I'll take an example I heard about a few years ago.
A woman tried to dry her dog after taking a walk in the rain by putting the dog in the microwave.
Dog died, she sued the microwave company for not stating in the users manual that u can't dry your pet inside the microwave.
Now, most people would say that she's stupid for even trying that and that common sense says you shouldn't do that.
She won in court.
Why? Because everyone doesn't know everything, she just didn't know how microwave technology works.
Now that woman is a very stupid example, but it's a perfect example of how far a faulty description can take you when it comes to the law.
Some people will say, don't compare games with real life but EVE is a product like every other product and a proper description is needed because a faulty description leads to faulty usage like this.
I'd say that's just the ******** legal system at work. You put the dog into the equivalent of an oven, and were surprised at the results. I don't throw my life's savings into the fireplace and light it up because it doesn't explicitly say otherwise.
|
Shardrael
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.02.22 02:29:00 -
[90]
you learned a good lesson from this, never assume and always investigate.
If nothing else happens of this and you are stuck with the implants you still walk away with some valuable information.
sides its not like its the worst thing in the world to have a head full of crystals somewhere, just maybe move the clone to empire and sit it in a mission running head or something.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |