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How misleading is this article on the BBC

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Talon SilverHawk Caldari Patria o Muerte	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:41:00 - [1] Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 21/02/2008 13:41:34 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7256069.stm This article has appeared about the economics of EVE but its so misleading about the game its silly. Makes it look like an online trading Game and not the PVP/PVE combat fest it is. Does not mention the fighting once. Quote "Players battle to win territories through forming corporations and creating, buying and selling products - it is a virtual microcosm of the economic world at large. ???? Dr Eyjo Gudmundsson is the lead economist, a virtual Alan Greenspan, who works to make sense of all the data." Im not saying that economics and trading arent part of the game, but no where do they mention the combat that drives the market ? Looks like Dr Eyjo Gudmundsson needs to get out into space. Your Thoughts Tal
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:44:00 - [2] that reporter should sit thru a couple days of NOL sieging to get a feel how players fight over territory.
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:53:00 - [3] I wouldn't say it's misleading at all tbh apart from initially referring to it as "a space trading game" - Eve is not really a game but rather a virtual world. The artical isn't advertising Eve but rather comparing the workings and complexity of virtual economies and real ones using Eve as the main example, so naturally they're going to focus heavily on that aspect rather than combat.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:54:00 - [4] A lot of demand for stuff in MMOs does not come from things getting blown up but from players getting older and being able to buy better stuff. There are always new people joining and so there will always be a demand for stuff. It may pain you, but I think Dr Eyjo Gudmundsson view of Eve is closer to the reality than yours.
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:58:00 - [5] Edited by: Raem Civrie on 21/02/2008 14:02:17 BBC is reporting about what is interesting about EVE. Combat isn't very interesting (or new). The intricate virtual economy is. Also, a majority of players in EVE don't engage in combat PvP. Many don't do much of PvE either. Less than a tenth of the populace even goes into 0.0. For 9 out of 10 users, the Great War is just something to read about. It may be inaccurate to call it a "trading game", but to call it a "combat game" would also be inaccurate. Also... Quote: Players battle to win territories through forming corporations and creating, buying and selling products - it is a virtual microcosm of the economic world at large. Notice the "and" there. The statement is 100% accurate. Space is taken and held through a) grouping up and fighting for it and b) logistics, which in the end often boils down to economic factors. edit: That said, it's kinda understandable that the BBC reporter used the term "trading game" thanks to Eyjo's comment here: Quote: "Eve is a game based on trade and there have been a couple of cases of price bubbles and it would be interesting to do a comparative study, comparing these bubbles to the real world and seeing how expectations are controlling the market at any given time." Which again is accurate. The entire basis for PvP is ships and modules, ships and modules built by other players, facilitated and affected by trade and various economic factors. Face it. EVE is not about the pewpew. EVE is about the spacebucks. ---
Glassback Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.21 14:02:00 - [6] Understanding the industry/trade side of this game is something only a few players are good at. You can have all the best PvPer's in the game in your corp, but if you don't have the one "industry guy" in the background making it all happen you will go nowhere. G. BH Kharnubis > Need more people against the MC meanies
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.21 14:03:00 - [7] They already spoke to the BBC about Fleet combat. Check the Vid-'Space Community Game displayed' and listen to what is said at 1.38 secs in. http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?tab=av&q=eve+online&edition=d&scope=all
Ieu Duin Amarr Star Sabre Industries Dark Taboo	Posted - 2008.02.21 14:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Talon SilverHawk Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 21/02/2008 13:41:34 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7256069.stm This article has appeared about the economics of EVE but its so misleading about the game its silly. Makes it look like an online trading Game and not the PVP/PVE combat fest it is. Does not mention the fighting once. Quote "Players battle to win territories through forming corporations and creating, buying and selling products - it is a virtual microcosm of the economic world at large. ???? Dr Eyjo Gudmundsson is the lead economist, a virtual Alan Greenspan, who works to make sense of all the data." Im not saying that economics and trading arent part of the game, but no where do they mention the combat that drives the market ? Looks like Dr Eyjo Gudmundsson needs to get out into space. Your Thoughts Tal Dr. Eyjo getting into space would be like you being the Chief Economist for EvE. Assuming you are not an economist yourself, you would both be fish out of water. He has addressed how the loss of ships through combat and how combat consumables drive sectors of the market in his reports. This particular story is not about the combat in EvE. It is about the economics of the game. Combat is certainly an option in the game, and a fun one. But, it is not the sole purpose of the game. EvE is a corporate simulator set in a Sci-Fi setting. You could use the same game mechanics in any setting and it would be the same game just with different environs. Writers have limited space. There is no way they could tell the entire story of EvE in the amount of space the have available. They just focused on one element because it is what makes EvE unique among all MMOs. That is the interesting story. Not combat in EvE. All MMOs have that. Quote: There are no fair fights in EVE. If you're in a fair fight, you planned wrong. -- Agent Li, Caldari, Galactic Defence Consortium, BLACKHAWK FEDERATION
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.02.21 14:05:00 - [9] Prolly the PR guy at CCP left out all the naughty stuff. Newsie was like "What's Eve like?" PR guy was like "Well you can trade, kill NPC's, mine, build ships" Newsie played around for 2 hours, did a mission and wrote the article. Little does Newsie know....
PeopleDamager Minmatar North Face Force	Posted - 2008.02.21 14:15:00 - [10] I'dd say we all use our locator agents and shoot them.
Chereadenine Zakalwe VENOM72 Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.21 14:21:00 - [11] Not a bad article. Goes to show, EVE>Thinking mans MMO(unless your just here for the ) Fancy a change of scenery? [/url] ô您&#
Lo3d3R MAFIA	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Talon SilverHawk Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 21/02/2008 13:41:34 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7256069.stm This article has appeared about the economics of EVE but its so misleading about the game its silly. Makes it look like an online trading Game and not the PVP/PVE combat fest it is. Does not mention the fighting once. Quote "Players battle to win territories through forming corporations and creating, buying and selling products - it is a virtual microcosm of the economic world at large. ???? Dr Eyjo Gudmundsson is the lead economist, a virtual Alan Greenspan, who works to make sense of all the data." Im not saying that economics and trading arent part of the game, but no where do they mention the combat that drives the market ? Looks like Dr Eyjo Gudmundsson needs to get out into space. Your Thoughts Tal I totally agree with you, such an article does more damage then good. If I would read this article as a 'fan' of the sci-fi genre I would assume EVE-Online is a game for calculators and trendwatchers, nothing to see here, move along -thus bad for potential customers-. If I had anything to say within the ranks of CCP, this single subject article would not fly in a million years. 0/ ___________________ Eating Chopped Bear:
Kyoto Luyi MX3 Development Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:44:00 - [13] BBC report/post crap and someone is surprised? Bindun...
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:47:00 - [14] War makes good flow...
Mickey Simon Esoteric Industries	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Wild Rho I wouldn't say it's misleading at all tbh apart from initially referring to it as "a space trading game" - Eve is not really a game but rather a virtual world. The artical isn't advertising Eve but rather comparing the workings and complexity of virtual economies and real ones using Eve as the main example, so naturally they're going to focus heavily on that aspect rather than combat. this
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:55:00 - [16] Wait you mean Eve isn't only for economics geeks and business management nerds and other people who own pocket protectors? wtf
Pax Ratlin Gallente Valley Forge	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:58:00 - [17] I have read a number of articles about MMO's in general from the BBC over the years and this is just another case of them sticking to the fine tradition of missing the point completely.
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:58:00 - [18] (for traders, in the meme of "Eve Has Sound") Eve has SPACE?
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.02.21 15:59:00 - [19] Originally by: Glassback Understanding the industry/trade side of this game is something only a few players are good at. You can have all the best PvPer's in the game in your corp, but if you don't have the one "industry guy" in the background making it all happen you will go nowhere. Quoting for the truth. It looks like this BBC guy had a deeper insight into Eve than some of those self-proclaimed hardcore PvPer's. Of course you need a strong military force to take space. But without industry, without economics and without TRADE you will never be able to build up a strong force neither will you be able to sustain it.
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:02:00 - [20] You guys need to consider the audience here. This isn't IGN, it's the BBC and this is a light interest piece/ filler for people who can't be assumed to play video games at all. Which one of these do you think would be interesting to the casual news consumer: 1. "EVE Online is a game about blowing up spaceships." 2. "EVE Online is a sci- fi MMO with a virtual economy so complicated they had to hire some guy from the university to make sense of it." ? I don't mean to be disheartening, but people have been blowing up spaceships in videogames since the late 70s. Aside from table tennis blowing up spaceships is the very oldest videogame activity known to man. "But the blowing up of the spaceships is really GOOD in EVE!" Who cares? Joe Bank Manager and Suzie Schoolbus Driver really don't GAF. They probably don't care about EVE's virtual economy either, but at least that'll make them say something like, "Oooooh, innit innaresting?" or "Gah! What won't they think of next? Stupid kids." And then they'll promptly forget about it and make dinner or something. Which is really the point of articles like this. Panties may unbunch in 5... 4... 3...
Tres Cushrinada	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:03:00 - [21] they kida mention it "Corporate espionage is a very big part of the game" im guessing = POS warfare
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:06:00 - [22] the BBC, especially in its news reporting, is a painfully leftist wishy washy thing that seldom gives a clear picture of what it is that's being reported, and it only reports that which fits into its highly PC agenda (heaven forbid they report on people blowing each others pixels up, the entire reason for eve's economy to exist!). And to think in the UK it's compulsory to fund this Labour propaganda machine, in a democracy, oh dear god. -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED] Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:07:00 - [23] Originally by: Taua Roqa the BBC, especially in its news reporting, is a painfully leftist wishy washy thing that seldom gives a clear picture of what it is that's being reported, and it only reports that which fits into its highly PC agenda (heaven forbid they report on people blowing each others pixels up, the entire reason for eve's economy to exist!). And to think in the UK it's compulsory to fund this Labour propaganda machine, in a democracy, oh dear god. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Taua Roqa the BBC, especially in its news reporting, is a painfully leftist wishy washy thing that seldom gives a clear picture of what it is that's being reported, and it only reports that which fits into its highly PC agenda (heaven forbid they report on people blowing each others pixels up, the entire reason for eve's economy to exist!). And to think in the UK it's compulsory to fund this Labour propaganda machine, in a democracy, oh dear god. So you disagree that ever since the BBC got their arses handed to them over that incident their reporting has become increasingly irrelevant and selective? -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED] Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
Xonkra Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Ephemeron that reporter should sit thru a couple days of NOL sieging to get a feel how players fight over territory. one frame at a time Originally by: Illyria Ambri No matter how you want to say it.. it always sounds like frog clearing throat "Ve zurrendur, dunt schuut"
Suboran Gallente Sphinx Inc Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Raem Civrie Edited by: Raem Civrie on 21/02/2008 14:02:17edit: Face it. EVE is not about the pewpew. EVE is about the spacebucks. everything in eve revolves around the creation and destruction of game items and this is 99% of the time during combat of some form. players mine ore, sell to ship builders who sell ships to combat players who get blown up. So trade is about as important as combat which is where the bbc report faulters.
Cypher V Minmatar Silent-I.K.Y The Polaris Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:15:00 - [27] Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo Edited by: Doonoo Boonoo on 21/02/2008 14:07:04 They already spoke to the BBC about Fleet combat. Check the Vid-'Space Community Game displayed' and listen to what is said at 1.38 secs in. http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?tab=av&q=eve+online&edition=d&scope=all Edit-I'm pretty sure he is talking about 'Operation Coathangar' when LV had their Titan destroyed in production. f'n good interview. Wonder how many people actualyl saw it though. It was prob broadcast at like, 4.30am or something stupid. ---------------------------------------------- Minmatar suck? Shoulda done my research -_-
Jitalaria	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:20:00 - [28] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Taua Roqa the BBC, especially in its news reporting, is a painfully leftist wishy washy thing that seldom gives a clear picture of what it is that's being reported, and it only reports that which fits into its highly PC agenda (heaven forbid they report on people blowing each others pixels up, the entire reason for eve's economy to exist!). And to think in the UK it's compulsory to fund this Labour propaganda machine, in a democracy, oh dear god. This
Mavrix Able M0NEY SH0T	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Talon SilverHawk Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 21/02/2008 13:41:34 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7256069.stm This article has appeared about the economics of EVE but its so misleading about the game its silly. Makes it look like an online trading Game and not the PVP/PVE combat fest it is. Does not mention the fighting once. Quote "Players battle to win territories through forming corporations and creating, buying and selling products - it is a virtual microcosm of the economic world at large. ???? Dr Eyjo Gudmundsson is the lead economist, a virtual Alan Greenspan, who works to make sense of all the data." Im not saying that economics and trading arent part of the game, but no where do they mention the combat that drives the market ? Looks like Dr Eyjo Gudmundsson needs to get out into space. Your Thoughts Tal I was about to type a post very likely to yours when I first read this on OOPF whatever that section is called. I then though, realised that since I knew nothing of EVE economics, we might even not be in the same ballpark when he sais territories. The article is about econimic development and dominance, and even thoug you could say that walmart is dominating the US, it is not in legal or military control of the country, just as the richest Jita trader doesn't control the forge. For all we (people who doesn't dig heavily into the moneyside of EVE) one corporation could in fact be dominating the trade in key items in Jita, whilst a different corp is taking care of Agil, Amarr, wherever. I just don't care as long as my stuff gets sold with a green percentage sign in the tradewindow, and the mods doesn't break my account. Ofcourse the combat matters to the traders. Likewise do the wars in the middeleast sway prices for the oilcompanies, but there is nothing they can do about it. From an economists perspective, such events are merely numbers and not strategic and tactical info they are gonna make battleplans over. Who cares, let's blow stuff p! -NWS/Mav
Siddy Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:29:00 - [30] Spice must flow! this is essential pharce for EVE You must fight to build and build to fight!

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