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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.02.22 21:24:00 -
[1]
Ok, so let's talk about level 5 missions.
Does anyone actually do these?
I've just tried bashing through them with two characters. My sample, of a whole 1 mission, was 'Honor', an L5 vs. Guristas.
It required 1 character in a Golem, and one in a remote repping Typhoon.
Mission time was about 90minutes.
Bounties clocks in at about 22mil. Mission pay 3.5mil LP reward 12k 2 High ML BS modules, 7 mil or so. And a reprocessed pile of T1 stuff (e.g. BS guns and the like) clocking in at some 6-7mil.
Standings boost was 3.7%.
So. 2 characters, make about 50mil all in, between 'em.
That's actually less than I reckon on when doing L4s in highsec.
Am I missing something, or ... do L5s just suck? -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Kirjava
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.02.22 21:29:00 -
[2]
Sounds like L5 suck quite badly, eveare in more so since they in lowsec. Maybe it's just that one, do at least 4 or 5 before deciding it isn't worth it, I got a few crappy L4 and some paid well.
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. |
Michus Danether
Aristotle Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.02.22 21:29:00 -
[3]
No James, they do suck.
Mind you, I haven't actually done any level 5s, but from every single person who has done them I have heard nothing but heartache and disappointment. Much like certain aspects of early exploration sites actually, how there would be this tremendously difficult site but with a paltry Miner I as a reward.
Until I start hearing *good* things about these Level 5s, Neither I nor my corporation have any intention of pursuing these risky, unrewarding missions.
Hell, it's safer running deadspace complexes in 0.0 by far. (and much more rewarding)
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.02.22 21:31:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kirjava Sounds like L5 suck quite badly, eveare in more so since they in lowsec. Maybe it's just that one, do at least 4 or 5 before deciding it isn't worth it, I got a few crappy L4 and some paid well.
Oh I'm inclined to.
It's just... well, relative cash/hour on L4s I find pretty consistent - faster missions, just mean you do more of 'em.
*shrug* I will do a few more, but ... it's not looking good. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.02.22 21:32:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Michus Danether No James, they do suck.
Mind you, I haven't actually done any level 5s, but from every single person who has done them I have heard nothing but heartache and disappointment. Much like certain aspects of early exploration sites actually, how there would be this tremendously difficult site but with a paltry Miner I as a reward.
Until I start hearing *good* things about these Level 5s, Neither I nor my corporation have any intention of pursuing these risky, unrewarding missions.
Hell, it's safer running deadspace complexes in 0.0 by far. (and much more rewarding)
Well, I had 'heard' things about L5s. But figured I might as well bother to check.
They've done a pretty good job of making them unsoable in a BS - there's not many ships that can tank that much firepower _and_ suck up being neuted at the same time.
Pity that once you consider needing someone assisting, the pay/person/hour is ... mediocre, compared to doing L4s, solo, in highsec.
ah well.
Back to L4ing I guess. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.22 21:33:00 -
[6]
No you are correct, they do suck. Most people can't do them with an alt like you did so it requires a group of friends to help which means less isk for everyone.
I can make around 20 million in bounties doing Vengeance, WC or Blockade solo in high sec.
Add in the fact that 5's are in low sec and you have a definite loser.
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:04:00 -
[7]
Level 5s are crap and almost no one ever runs them. Too much risk, no reward, just like the rest of low-sec.
Volition Cult Recruitment Post |
El Mauru
Amarr Nexus Analytics Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:23:00 -
[8]
ofc- none of you ever remotely considered the fact that "fun" instead of ISK might be a factor when making your judgment
I assume that`s a testimony to something relatively flawed in the mission design, oh nvm, this is a MMORPG after all
To add something useful in the end: I think Lvl 5 were put in for the novelty factor most of all (people wanting to do missions with/in caps/Raids), rather than adding substance to "mission grinding"- who`d blame em for that?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.22 22:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: El Mauru ofc- none of you ever remotely considered the fact that "fun" instead of ISK might be a factor when making your judgment
I assume that`s a testimony to something relatively flawed in the mission design, oh nvm, this is a MMORPG after all
To add something useful in the end: I think Lvl 5 were put in for the novelty factor most of all (people wanting to do missions with/in caps/Raids), rather than adding substance to "mission grinding"- who`d blame em for that?
At least half of the missions have acceleration gates and can't be done in capitals; almost all (or maybe all of them) have a heavy presence of neutralizing towers with insane range and fast respawn, so they are almost impossible to do if you use cap dependent weapons or tanks.
So they are "if you pilot caldari missile ship" fun mission, semi fun if you pilot minmatar ships, a big annoyance for Gallente and Amarr piloting characters as you will be hors de combat most of the time.
It is a bad habit in designing missions that CCP is getting, a good number of the new missions require a passive tank and no cap using weapons (or at least are way easier to do with that combination). A good number of mission have even enemies that aggro only if you launch drones and only your drone, returning dormant if you recall the drones, reducing the usefulness of the good mission running Gallente ships (Myrmidion and Dominix) as the main weapon, and the weapon that make them good mission running ships, is made unusable.
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.22 23:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: El Mauru ofc- none of you ever remotely considered the fact that "fun" instead of ISK might be a factor when making your judgment
I assume that`s a testimony to something relatively flawed in the mission design, oh nvm, this is a MMORPG after all
To add something useful in the end: I think Lvl 5 were put in for the novelty factor most of all (people wanting to do missions with/in caps/Raids), rather than adding substance to "mission grinding"- who`d blame em for that?
Having isk = Fun in EvE.
Losing expensive ships to Pirates in low sec or completing missions which pay less than lvl 4's = no or less fun in EvE.
I disagree with your last paragraph too. LvL 5's were a {failed} attempt to get more people to go into or live in low sec. Go read the dev blogs at the time if you don't believe me.
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Law Enforcer
Deadly Addiction
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Posted - 2008.02.23 00:02:00 -
[11]
for the amount of risk involved and the ****ty rewards you're better off plexing or running level 4's. if they removed the neut towers so they where solo able they'd be worth it.
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BlueMajere
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Posted - 2008.02.23 00:16:00 -
[12]
not our fault you didn't salvage the mission....... you would have made alot more cash
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DigitalCommunist
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2008.02.23 00:47:00 -
[13]
Level 5 missions being available in empire is what keeps them castrated on rewards, as is the fact that you can do as many missions from the same agent as you want.
Right now, they are what lvl 4 agent missions were originally designed to be. And if you're not sure what I'm talking about..
Lvl 4 agent missions were supposed to be a group/corp activity, that put high end PVE challenges in empire. The rewards were supposed to be split between multiple people. Instead, people found ways to solo them and the rewards were insane for a single person.
If you could solo lvl 5's in approximately the same time it took to do a lvl 4, they'd easily become the new standard. Fortunately, CCP wanted the inclusion of capital ships, and by their nature you can't really go out solo in a Dread. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/ |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.02.23 01:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: El Mauru ofc- none of you ever remotely considered the fact that "fun" instead of ISK might be a factor when making your judgment
I assume that`s a testimony to something relatively flawed in the mission design, oh nvm, this is a MMORPG after all
To add something useful in the end: I think Lvl 5 were put in for the novelty factor most of all (people wanting to do missions with/in caps/Raids), rather than adding substance to "mission grinding"- who`d blame em for that?
No.
if I have a gang together, in lowsec, I will use it for fun, but said fun doesn't involve no steenkin' PvE. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Sgt Napalm
Synergy Fundacion
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Posted - 2008.02.23 03:14:00 -
[15]
Yea, for isk level Vs are not worth it. For the thrill and rush of things its worth it. If you want to run some give me a shout in game James.
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Aldelphius
Carbide Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.23 03:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Level 5 missions being available in empire is what keeps them castrated on rewards, as is the fact that you can do as many missions from the same agent as you want.
Right now, they are what lvl 4 agent missions were originally designed to be. And if you're not sure what I'm talking about..
Lvl 4 agent missions were supposed to be a group/corp activity, that put high end PVE challenges in empire. The rewards were supposed to be split between multiple people. Instead, people found ways to solo them and the rewards were insane for a single person.
If you could solo lvl 5's in approximately the same time it took to do a lvl 4, they'd easily become the new standard. Fortunately, CCP wanted the inclusion of capital ships, and by their nature you can't really go out solo in a Dread.
Its allways been pve vs mining in whichever puls the most cash/hr. Once upon a time, missions didnt have such huge bounties and mining was the way to make money becasue there was a price floor with npc orders. you also couldent take a noob inb n a raven and solo them. but ccp changed all that and now we are here.
I expect a reduction in bounties on npc's to slow the inflation in the market, and to move the bigger isk ventures into low sec.
bottom line is untill a group of people make more per hour together than they can individualy running lvl 4's, no one is going to do them.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2008.02.23 05:19:00 -
[17]
I've done some L5s, I know people who do a good number of them. But we aren't doing them for cash. We're doing them either for fun, or for tags. Last one I did was against Guristas. It was fun, but I got maybe 3m in bounties out of it (large gang size). On the other had, such large gangs clear them in 20-30 minutes.
And yes, the rewards absolutely suck compared to L4s with a good agent.
Does anyone know if L5 Storylines exist, by the way? -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Frug
True Foundation R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.02.23 05:57:00 -
[18]
They sound like crap.
There doesn't seem to be any good reason, unless you are already controlling the system that the agent is in and have nothing better to do, to bother to go through the effort of forming a gang to go do lvl 5's.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Jerusalem Eve
Amarr Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.02.23 06:11:00 -
[19]
I would say they are a bust.
Move them to high sec to get more people running them.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.23 07:39:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 23/02/2008 07:41:11
Originally by: Aldelphius
Its allways been pve vs mining in whichever puls the most cash/hr. Once upon a time, missions didnt have such huge bounties and mining was the way to make money becasue there was a price floor with npc orders. you also couldent take a noob inb n a raven and solo them. but ccp changed all that and now we are here.
I expect a reduction in bounties on npc's to slow the inflation in the market, and to move the bigger isk ventures into low sec.
bottom line is untill a group of people make more per hour together than they can individualy running lvl 4's, no one is going to do them.
And pray tell when bounties in missions were lower? Those that were increased are the belt rats bounties.
In the 2 years I have played they have always lowered, never increased. I heard that before my time it was possible to get plenty of faction items in some broken mission, but it was squashed shortly after discovery.
BTW: to reiterate it again most level 5 missions have acceleration gates not accepting capitals. And those that don't have acceleration gates aren't in deadspace, so are even easyer to scan from beyond system scanner range.
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Agil TradeAlt
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Posted - 2008.02.23 07:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Level 5 missions being available in empire is what keeps them castrated on rewards, as is the fact that you can do as many missions from the same agent as you want.
Right now, they are what lvl 4 agent missions were originally designed to be. And if you're not sure what I'm talking about..
Lvl 4 agent missions were supposed to be a group/corp activity, that put high end PVE challenges in empire. The rewards were supposed to be split between multiple people. Instead, people found ways to solo them and the rewards were insane for a single person.
If you could solo lvl 5's in approximately the same time it took to do a lvl 4, they'd easily become the new standard. Fortunately, CCP wanted the inclusion of capital ships, and by their nature you can't really go out solo in a Dread.
You cannot take capitals to lvl5's unless they fixed every gate. Also, the game design aorund lvl5's favors passive tanking capless ship setups, so I would hate to be amarr :)
Originally by: CCP kieron ISK buying is a major contributor to the inflation in EVE's economy.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.02.23 09:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Agil TradeAlt
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Level 5 missions being available in empire is what keeps them castrated on rewards, as is the fact that you can do as many missions from the same agent as you want.
Right now, they are what lvl 4 agent missions were originally designed to be. And if you're not sure what I'm talking about..
Lvl 4 agent missions were supposed to be a group/corp activity, that put high end PVE challenges in empire. The rewards were supposed to be split between multiple people. Instead, people found ways to solo them and the rewards were insane for a single person.
If you could solo lvl 5's in approximately the same time it took to do a lvl 4, they'd easily become the new standard. Fortunately, CCP wanted the inclusion of capital ships, and by their nature you can't really go out solo in a Dread.
You cannot take capitals to lvl5's unless they fixed every gate. Also, the game design aorund lvl5's favors passive tanking capless ship setups, so I would hate to be amarr :)
This is not correct. Busted a carrier out of one last week-sadly the warp-in point landed covops directly on top of the target in the middle of a pile of fighter drones, wrecks, and some horrible rat aggro. Covops got out shot into armor by rat towers.
And yeah....warped at 100km as well. I'm not sure that the small force gathered to kill the carrier would have been enough to do the job AND handle some obviously nasty rat aggro.
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.02.23 10:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sgt Napalm Yea, for isk level Vs are not worth it. For the thrill and rush of things its worth it. If you want to run some give me a shout in game James.
I might do that.
I certainly didn't have a problem with raven + remote rep alt - it was about comparable with L4s, in terms of popping stuff, and tanking, wash, rinse, repeat.
Apart from getting jammed too often, but hey, that's why we have FoFs :) -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.02.23 11:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jerusalem Eve I would say they are a bust.
Move them to high sec to get more people running them.
I interpret this:
"They sound like they suck... but if you move them to highsec I'll do them because it's safe and I can figure out a way to solo them."
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Hornymatt
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Posted - 2008.02.23 11:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 23/02/2008 07:41:11
Originally by: Aldelphius
Its allways been pve vs mining in whichever puls the most cash/hr. Once upon a time, missions didnt have such huge bounties and mining was the way to make money becasue there was a price floor with npc orders. you also couldent take a noob inb n a raven and solo them. but ccp changed all that and now we are here.
I expect a reduction in bounties on npc's to slow the inflation in the market, and to move the bigger isk ventures into low sec.
bottom line is untill a group of people make more per hour together than they can individualy running lvl 4's, no one is going to do them.
And pray tell when bounties in missions were lower? Those that were increased are the belt rats bounties.
In the 2 years I have played they have always lowered, never increased. I heard that before my time it was possible to get plenty of faction items in some broken mission, but it was squashed shortly after discovery.
BTW: to reiterate it again most level 5 missions have acceleration gates not accepting capitals. And those that don't have acceleration gates aren't in deadspace, so are even easyer to scan from beyond system scanner range.
Before level 4 missions were introduced the bounties on the top missions (level 3) couldn't compete with mining from a revenue point of view - especially if you were able to mine Croke in a corp safe enviroment.
That said, when CCP relented on the initial level 4 approach and made them soloable in bs's the rewards initially were way over the top - 5 million for the last bs on the old Mordus Headhunter missions, and the zyd and meg drops from the drone missions were insane.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.02.23 12:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Jerusalem Eve I would say they are a bust.
Move them to high sec to get more people running them.
I interpret this:
"They sound like they suck... but if you move them to highsec I'll do them because it's safe and I can figure out a way to solo them."
Well duhhh
impo ccp should move atleast some of them to hi sec but make them so friggin hard u just need to have atleast a wingman or 2 if u wanna do them in any reasonable time and not warp in and out a dozen times and take hours doing just 1 (remember, beeing able to do them fast is profitable as well cuz u can do more of em)
Unless ur in a big corp with sufficient protection so u don't have to watch both the npcs as the local thugs theres no point in doing them, and if u do have the numbers theres prolly no point cuz u will have to share the profits with so many people it's easier to do L4's _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.23 15:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: El Mauru ofc- none of you ever remotely considered the fact that "fun" instead of ISK might be a factor when making your judgment
I assume that`s a testimony to something relatively flawed in the mission design, oh nvm, this is a MMORPG after all
Correct, missions in EVE are boring, repetitive and no challenge at all. They are fun the first time you do them (just due to novelty I guess), from then on it's a grind.
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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