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JSO Milic
JSO Intel
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Posted - 2008.02.28 00:14:00 -
[1]
I feel the rewards far outweigh the 'risks & loss' (isk, sec status) in executing such attacks in high sec. The isk loss itself yielded by practicing such acts is very close to nil in many cases. I think the game mechanic should be tweaked to raise the risk and cost of these events. No insurance payout to the aggressors maybe
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Adarr
Caldari g guild Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.02.28 01:20:00 -
[2]
This issue's been raised many times and many times its been struck down with people saying its all in the game mechanics, as the tutorial even warns you at the beginning.
That said I do agree that insurance needs to be fixed so you shouldn't get it if you deliberately break the law, but that issue's been beaten to death more times than you could count.
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JSO Milic
JSO Intel
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Posted - 2008.02.28 04:32:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Adarr This issue's been raised many times and many times its been struck down with people saying its all in the game mechanics, as the tutorial even warns you at the beginning.
Yes, I sorta figured the redundancy. The frequency of such activity seems to be increasing significantly though. Even major in-game entities such as Corps & Alliances are in pursuant of kamikaze quests now as regular gameplay activity, and raving about it publicly. I hope the issue is revisited and they 'beat it up' some more as you put it.
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Sahriah BloodStone
Caldari Underworld Protection Agency The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.02.28 07:33:00 -
[4]
I was thinking about this actually the other night. How about this.
Insurance usually covers suicide ganking ships correct? So why not do this. If someone (in high sec) starts aggression for no reason (ie: ganking) the insurance contracts on those ships are voided if they die within that 15min agression countdown
Simple and easily worked into the storyline
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Stephanie Parks
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Posted - 2008.02.28 10:30:00 -
[5]
I agree to JSO Milic. If someone got killed by CONCORD, doesn't matter how, no insurance should be paid. That's it, simple.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.28 10:56:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/02/2008 10:56:01
Originally by: Stephanie Parks I agree to JSO Milic. If someone got killed by CONCORD, doesn't matter how, no insurance should be paid. That's it, simple.
Wait, and insuring a ship you'll throw against 20x your numbers (Yes, I'm talking about missioning/ratting) is fine and sensible?
Q: Hello, dear insurance company, I've decided to fit a machinegun on my car and go to (insert third world country of choice) to hunt terrorists/criminals/(insert your favourite target of choice) in it, can I get insurance? A: LOL.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Strikeclone
The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2008.02.28 11:44:00 -
[7]
This post touches on a wider issue, and that is the static NPC enviroment of Eve has been well out grown by an increasingly sneaky player base.
As other have said many times, should criminals (i.e -2.0 sec status) be able to insure and claim insurance payouts though the normal system? Should their be an alternative black market insurance firm who takes a higher premium for a lower pay out.
should criminal actions compell a normal insurance pay out, a reduced one or none at all.
Its a fact but a sad one that the Eve enviroment is totally static regarding player actions and roleplay (if applicable)
High sec ganking is just a simptom of this wider issue
Recruitment |
ArmaggedonPSA
Minmatar Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.02.28 11:47:00 -
[8]
Edited by: ArmaggedonPSA on 28/02/2008 11:49:07 Concord provides consequences, not safety. Only you can do that
EDIT: From what I have seen, most suicide gankers use stealth bombers to do their dirty work. Try finding a bomber pilot that gives a damn if he gets insurance on his T2 frigate
"Far From Homeworld" - An EVE Comic |
Strikeclone
The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2008.02.28 11:56:00 -
[9]
Tell that to the frieghter pilot who is ganked by 10-15 batttleships in 1.0 space.
The point I'm trying to make is that this is a mmorpg, but the actions of a player have no real baring on the enviroment. If I am a high sec ganker pilot I should eventually find it quite hard to recruit crew for my ships, something to do with a reputation for high crew mortality.... I should also find it hard to insure any ships as insurers are a funny bunch and don't tend to deal with people who suicide their ships, over and over and over.
But I'm ****ing in the wind here because I doubt the investment of dev time will be pulled away from important projects for the whole game like titans, to be put to use on minority content like a dynamic NPC enviroment
Recruitment |
ry ry
StateCorp Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.28 13:53:00 -
[10]
concorded ships should pay out a minimum insurance rather than invalidating it altogether.
suicide ganking remains viable, but also becomes more expensive so you're less likely to get ganked hauling a couple of hundred mill of random mission crap into jita. Signature removed. Too large and flashing signatures are not really permitted. Navigator |
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Verys
The Black Ops Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.28 14:18:00 -
[11]
You carrying around millions in a hauler afk is like hauling millions of say euro's in a white van while driving on cruise control. If you got something worth while you take an armored van and armed guards to haul it (say battleship), and you dont fly on autopilot no you pay attention. You are responsile for your own losses if you are flying on autopilot.
Easy forwarding killmails |
Yuleth Gix
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Posted - 2008.02.28 15:05:00 -
[12]
What you're saying then is HAULERS are not very good at HAULING.
By the time you fill up any hauler even with the cheepest crap there is, you end up with 'millions'.
SO your argument is that haulers are not something you'd recommend hauling in. Instead battleships are your recommended hauler :)
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Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar The Unseen Company
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Posted - 2008.02.28 15:27:00 -
[13]
Transport ships are quite nice :)
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Tmarte
Caldari BODA-BOOM
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Posted - 2008.02.28 15:45:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tmarte on 28/02/2008 15:51:08 Ok i first want to say that any comparison to real life insurance should be avoided. I made that mistake in an arguement in the past and got owned.
The problem is there is no risk for the suicide gankers. Since they are getting insurance payouts, the insurance company is paying for a new ship for them. All it takes is a T1 fit, so another couple hundred thousand maybe. Either way, the gankers are paying maybe a mil or two for new insurance, and to fit the ship. That's nothing when you consider they are pulling in 10-100x's that amount.
The other problem is, even if they aren't getting insurance payout, you can build a caracal for like 4mil, fit it for another 500k, and your still making several times what you invested. A stealth bomber is not that much either, IIRC maybe 15mil or so, but when your making 500mil on a kill, even without insurance, what does it matter?
If anything, there needs to be some sort of balance. If your AFK, then it's your own fault. But if your still being ganked and your doing everything you can, then something needs to happen. For instance, I lost a true sansha large tower, because I was dumb, stupid, and afk hauling it. Guess what, I learned my lesson. Now when hauling anything expensive, it usually goes by bustard or crane, with warp stabbers out the rear end, hardeners, and never ever goes afk.
If people are still getting ganked and they are warping to 0 and doing things the "right" way, then a balance needs to be reached. Maybe cargo scanning times need to be increased. This would give a non-afker time to warp away before a possible ganker had a chance to see what he was carrying. Maybe decreasing the time it takes concord to respond, and do it by security status. If it's a 1.0, they should respond within seconds, if it's a 0.5, maybe the same time as it is now, or a tad shorter. Maybe, when somebody scans somebody down, it should decrease the time it would take concord to respond. Somebody mentioned concord doesn't punish, it gives out consequences or whatever. A consequence should be voided insurance.
This obviously isn't going to stop all ganking, but it will cut it down alot. It's high security systems, not high security, except for suicide gankers. And as far as using proper game mechanics, i'd have to disagree. Yes it's using game mechanics, but using them to exploit an obviously broken aspect of the game, in which there is ZERO risk, and high rewards.
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JSO Milic
JSO Intel
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Posted - 2008.02.29 00:13:00 -
[15]
Another option would be to tweak Concord's combat abilities. Give them EWAR (jamming, dampening, etc) perhaps at random spawns, not necessarily for all of them. Right now, the Kamikaze can calculate exactly what to expect & 'need for tank' from Concord's arrival in each sec level. More versatile Concord abilities would make the risk assessment more nominal versus the current static (predictable) response. I still like the idea of adjusting the insurance payout system, but if CCP is intent on maintaining the status quo, they could at least inject a very minor tweak
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Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.29 00:23:00 -
[16]
Whine whine whine. Display some self-preservation instincts instead of begging CCP to change things.
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Amber Michaels
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Posted - 2008.02.29 07:17:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Amber Michaels on 29/02/2008 07:22:25
Originally by: Berrik Radhok Whine whine whine. Display some self-preservation instincts instead of begging CCP to change things.
CCP: PAY ATTENTION TO THIS. IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT. THIS IS THE VOICE OF A DESPERATE REVOLTED FRIEND.
AND YOU GANKING KIDS TOO.
These forums threads are the best to find the gankers. They are listed here defending their stupid bastard actions. WAKE UP CCP, THIS MINORITY OF GANKERS ARE MAKING PEOPLE STOP PLAYING EVE, PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN HIGH-SEC AND DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN PVP. YOU ARE LOOSING GOOD COSTUMERS FOR NOTHING!
My friend was a high-sec carebear before he stopped playing this game, a very happy player. But he choose his gameplay based on his health: he has a problem in his heart and he almost dyed in real life because he got ganked by a stupid ganking kid. You find this funny? No it is not. If you find this funny it is because you are a stupid death lover child that did not face real life death in your family yet.
You gankers must learn to respect the others' gameplay choice. Just because you have a PVP char doesn't mean you are better than others. You just choose a different gameplay stile. Grow up and and don't be a coward, because that is what gankers are! You almost killed my real life friend. You want to kill people in high-sec? WAR DECK THEM, this is the official game mechanics for that. Want more action!? Go to low-sec! Stop protecting these stupid actions and grow up! Because of you I don't talk to my friend in this game anymore. Thank you for your great lagacy in this game, kid.
STOP PAYING INSURANCE TO GANKERS NOW, CCP !!!
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Amber Michaels
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Posted - 2008.02.29 07:17:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Amber Michaels on 29/02/2008 07:17:44
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Shadow Rogue
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Posted - 2008.02.29 08:21:00 -
[19]
I have to agree the High sec ganking is killing this game. to say it's in the game mechanics is a farce. If CCP can move players to the other side of the eve universe simply becuase they close down a system ( ie M00 closing down Yulai i think it was) then CCP can do something to stop this stupid act.
I agree stop thier insurance payments but also increase the sec loss for these acts so that it means that these idiots that spoil this game are forced into low sec alot quicker. If you can not do this then set it up so that the NPC corp will not allow these characters to locate their clones in high sec, for example after one act of of this sort their clone is moved to a 0.4 sec region of space which is say 5 jumps from were the act took place and after every act their clone gets moved deeper into low sec pref. were they do not have a ship. afterall if they are that good a pvp'er then flying through 10 or 11 low sec system in a rookie ship should be no problem at all.
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Thenoran
Caldari Frontier Economics
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Posted - 2008.02.29 09:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/02/2008 10:56:01
Originally by: Stephanie Parks I agree to JSO Milic. If someone got killed by CONCORD, doesn't matter how, no insurance should be paid. That's it, simple.
Wait, and insuring a ship you'll throw against 20x your numbers (Yes, I'm talking about missioning/ratting) is fine and sensible?
Q: Hello, dear insurance company, I've decided to fit a machinegun on my car and go to (insert third world country of choice) to hunt terrorists/criminals/(insert your favourite target of choice) in it, can I get insurance? A: LOL.
Since when is a Drake or a Raven a car with a machinegun and not a big fat Leopard 2 or Abrams with a 120mm smoothbore gun? ------------------------
Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh |
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.29 09:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Thenoran
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/02/2008 10:56:01
Originally by: Stephanie Parks I agree to JSO Milic. If someone got killed by CONCORD, doesn't matter how, no insurance should be paid. That's it, simple.
Wait, and insuring a ship you'll throw against 20x your numbers (Yes, I'm talking about missioning/ratting) is fine and sensible?
Q: Hello, dear insurance company, I've decided to fit a machinegun on my car and go to (insert third world country of choice) to hunt terrorists/criminals/(insert your favourite target of choice) in it, can I get insurance? A: LOL.
Since when is a Drake or a Raven a car with a machinegun and not a big fat Leopard 2 or Abrams with a 120mm smoothbore gun?
Since when do insurance companies insure tanks?
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.29 09:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Amber Michaels Edited by: Amber Michaels on 29/02/2008 07:22:25
Originally by: Berrik Radhok Whine whine whine. Display some self-preservation instincts instead of begging CCP to change things.
CCP: PAY ATTENTION TO THIS. IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT. THIS IS THE VOICE OF A DESPERATE REVOLTED FRIEND.
AND YOU GANKING KIDS TOO.
These forums threads are the best to find the gankers. They are listed here defending their stupid bastard actions. WAKE UP CCP, THIS MINORITY OF GANKERS ARE MAKING PEOPLE STOP PLAYING EVE, PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN HIGH-SEC AND DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN PVP. YOU ARE LOOSING GOOD COSTUMERS FOR NOTHING!
My friend was a high-sec carebear before he stopped playing this game, a very happy player. But he choose his gameplay based on his health: he has a problem in his heart and he almost dyed in real life because he got ganked by a stupid ganking kid. You find this funny? No it is not. If you find this funny it is because you are a stupid death lover child that did not face real life death in your family yet.
You gankers must learn to respect the others' gameplay choice. Just because you have a PVP char doesn't mean you are better than others. You just choose a different gameplay stile. Grow up and and don't be a coward, because that is what gankers are! You almost killed my real life friend. You want to kill people in high-sec? WAR DECK THEM, this is the official game mechanics for that. Want more action!? Go to low-sec! Stop protecting these stupid actions and grow up! Because of you I don't talk to my friend in this game anymore. Thank you for your great lagacy in this game, kid.
STOP PAYING INSURANCE TO GANKERS NOW, CCP !!!
This is exactly the type of people we dont need in eve. Hello Kitty online is -----> way.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.02.29 10:36:00 -
[23]
High-sec suicide gankings are a part of the game, and as such they're fine. No problem with them at all. This game is based on people loosing ships and ISK and wouldn't work otherwise. For those that don't like it, there's "My Little Pony Online" or "Hello Kitty Online" which might be more their style.
There is an imbalance in a related area though that affects suicide gankings, this being the way insurance is done.
Insurance pays out way more than a new ship costs, as it is a fixed (high) amount of ISK that hasn't been adjusted for years (it really should be dynamic). This leads to the ships being used for suicide gankings being almost free (even including the payment for insurance), and thus the sanction imposed by concord (loosing the ship) is minimal. I did the calc a few weeks ago, and at that time the real cost of replacing a Raven (incl. insurance for the replacement ship) was 8m ISK.
There could be several solutions to this.. 1. Decrease insurance as ship size grows. Frigates could be insured 100%, cruisers 75%, battleships 50%, caps 25%. No default insurance payout. This would protect newbies but older players would have to weigh risk/reward. 2. Use statistics to determine insurance payout. Have a background script running which looks at the ship prices in high-sec and takes an average of the 20% lowest ship prices as the insurance payout for T1. For T2 make the payout (1/4 of that average). 3. Remove insurance payout for CONCORD kills! 4. Remove insurance payout! 5. Something I haven't thought about......
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.29 13:52:00 -
[24]
I agree with the post if you get concorded no insuranace pay out. Salvaging guide:moon materials guide |
Jade190
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Posted - 2008.02.29 14:21:00 -
[25]
Remove insurance from the game. Then there's a risk for undocking no matter who you are. ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid. |
Dr Aryandi
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Posted - 2008.02.29 14:39:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jade190 Remove insurance from the game. Then there's a risk for undocking no matter who you are.
Works for me :)
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Dai Nau
Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.29 14:42:00 -
[27]
stop playing eve
problem solved
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DasNara Aethelwulf
Blackwater Syndicate VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.29 15:03:00 -
[28]
Edited by: DasNara Aethelwulf on 29/02/2008 15:04:37 Edited by: DasNara Aethelwulf on 29/02/2008 15:03:11 Oh look, more gankers chiming in. you know everyone here pays to play this game so telling people that they cant voice a concern is really stupid. They want to say something they have a right too. Stop playing, there's another dumb suggestion that is used a lot by the ganking community. I have a suggest for you, if you want to just sit in one spot all day and shoot someone as they pass by go play a FPS. It takes no skill and very little 'game' experience to sit in one spot all day and shoot at people that are forced to come through a gate. With CCP saying they want to expand this game to more people and make more of a role play then they are going to HAVE to listen to these people. Also, they never, well very few suggest making it absolutly safe, they are saying that a bunch of noob alts sitting at gates that they are forced to come through is a dumb mechanic of the game. EVE will never be safe, and I dont want it to, but it should be a little more than just a combat simulator that it is now. |
Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.29 17:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: DasNara Aethelwulf Edited by: DasNara Aethelwulf on 29/02/2008 15:04:37 Edited by: DasNara Aethelwulf on 29/02/2008 15:03:11 Oh look, more gankers chiming in. you know everyone here pays to play this game so telling people that they cant voice a concern is really stupid. They want to say something they have a right too. Stop playing, there's another dumb suggestion that is used a lot by the ganking community. I have a suggest for you, if you want to just sit in one spot all day and shoot someone as they pass by go play a FPS. It takes no skill and very little 'game' experience to sit in one spot all day and shoot at people that are forced to come through a gate. With CCP saying they want to expand this game to more people and make more of a role play then they are going to HAVE to listen to these people. Also, they never, well very few suggest making it absolutly safe, they are saying that a bunch of noob alts sitting at gates that they are forced to come through is a dumb mechanic of the game. EVE will never be safe, and I dont want it to, but it should be a little more than just a combat simulator that it is now.
This is a non-con PVP game. Get used to it or get out.
Better yet, just get out.
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DasNara Aethelwulf
Blackwater Syndicate VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.29 19:14:00 -
[30]
Hi Berrik,
NO
My left is in retreat, my center is giving way; situation excellent, I attack - Joffe 1916 |
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