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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sarakiel
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:10:00 -
[1]
As the title indicates I want to know why the last statistic I heard is 78% of the playerbase is in empire space, the vast majority spending most of their time in high sec? I gotta know why cause heres the facts
-A covetor (tech 1 fully insureable mining barge) makes 25 million an hour mining crokite, bistot, and arkonor using tech 1 strip miners, tech 1 mining drones. This goes up to 40 million an hour with modulated strip miners, and tech 2 drones.
-Battleship ratting on my pvp toon can vary between 10 million and 25 million an hour depending on your dps and if your getting nice spawns that day. I average 20 million and my total module cost is 15 million. In an hour i've made back all the money I could possibly lose. My skillpoint total is 4.1 million.
Yes theres a learning curve to 0.0 space. When you first get out your likely to make mistakes and lose a ship or two a week mining/ratting. But that doesnt last long, a week or two and if you know what your doing you'll never lose a mining/ratting ship again just always be ready to warp to a pos in the system and never go afk outside. With these numbers I cant think thats not worth a two week learning curve.
Now the reason why I ask this is i just ran the numbers. Based on these calculations it takes 75 active players grinding 2 hours/day to maximise the potential of 6 0.0 systems.
-Takes 90 manhours to mine a 10 belt system clean of arkonor, bistot, and crokite every 5 days. Thats 90 hours x 6 systems = 540 mining manhours/6 systems
-Each system can really handle 2 players ratting on average. Considering there are dead times for ratting well say the systems can be well ratted 16 hours a day, so in 5 days thats
6 systems x 2 players a system x 16 effective manhours/day x 5 days: 960 manhours
So thats 1500 manhours every 5 days. To find out how many people at 4 hours a day well divide that by 5 days and divide that by 2.
1500 hours/5 days = 300 hours/day (300 hours/day)/(2 hours grinding per person/day) = 150
This means that a system supports 30 active players grinding (not pvp'ing just grinding) 14 hours a week with each player making 280 million a week if there ratting.
My point is empire is not being used close to its full potential. Most alliances hold a system for every 20 members they have. Thats member count, not actual active players and most players are definately not even grinding 14 hours a week. Empire is a bunch of nomads fighting tribal warfare, get out here and lets build civilisation.
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Nexus Kinnon
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:19:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Nexus Kinnon on 29/02/2008 22:19:03 ... cos they don't wanna get blown up?
You haven't considered logistics and the PvP necessary to secure/hold your space. Nice try though.
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Thenoran
Caldari Frontier Economics
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:23:00 -
[3]
Industrialists usually have no reason to go into 0.0 since they can make all the ISK they need in high-sec. On top of that, an Alliance requires a lot of attention, they will probably want you to be able to fight as well to 'defend the Alliance', POS's probably move everyday and you are garantueed to lose ships which cost ISK. That and they cant really mine on their own or do any missions, all they could do would be to mine Arkonor in 0.0 24/7, which gets boring fast.
Also, moving ore and goods out of 0.0 is not exactly a walk in the park. ------------------------
Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:24:00 -
[4]
L4s make more than that. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Mynameistoby
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:27:00 -
[5]
My character is chillin out maxin relaxin all cool sitting in station outside of the school
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Nexus Kinnon
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mynameistoby My character is chillin out maxin relaxin all cool sitting in station outside of the school
This is a terrible post and you are a terrible poster
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Sabian Dronehugger
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:30:00 -
[7]
Well for me 0.0 is just for pvp and not isk making which is quite the same as empire so they really messed that up.
Mining might seem different but in empire you can read a book ,watch tv etc. while multitasking more than one client easy.
And rating is kinda like lvl 4 missions iskwise only difference is in the investment needed and the sp and the fact that missions are way more relaxed.
And also empire has a lot of easy of trading oppurtunities.
So in the end 0.0 is just for fun on a individual lvl .Yes corps and alliances make big isk there and i know of individual exceptions but that is all that they are.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Edited by: Nexus Kinnon on 29/02/2008 22:19:03 ... cos they don't wanna get blown up?
You haven't considered logistics and the PvP necessary to secure/hold your space. Nice try though.
Yup. Pretty much. Noone wants to get blown up. Majority of 0.0 alliances are NRDS which basically means if you go there, you arent coming back if you get spotted. The sad part is that even though the majority of 0.0 is uninhabited, its still "claimed" which leaves no room for people to get in.
You say 10 - 20 mil ISK/hr? Why bother if you get shot at and lose your ship once per hour? How are you going to get a replacement ship? Where are you going to put all your stuff? Do carebears really want to bow to the wishes of alliance politics which, in general, are pretty crappy? Maybe CCP should offer incentives (penalties?) to not amass large tracts of space? ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Edited by: Nexus Kinnon on 29/02/2008 22:19:03 ... cos they don't wanna get blown up?
You haven't considered logistics and the PvP necessary to secure/hold your space. Nice try though.
Yup. Pretty much. Noone wants to get blown up. Majority of 0.0 alliances are NRDS which basically means if you go there, you arent coming back if you get spotted. The sad part is that even though the majority of 0.0 is uninhabited, its still "claimed" which leaves no room for people to get in.
You say 10 - 20 mil ISK/hr? Why bother if you get shot at and lose your ship once per hour? How are you going to get a replacement ship? Where are you going to put all your stuff? Do carebears really want to bow to the wishes of alliance politics which, in general, are pretty crappy? Maybe CCP should offer incentives (penalties?) to not amass large tracts of space?
I think you have mistaken NBSI (not blue shoot it) for NRDS (not red, don't shoot).
But most alliances will just open fire 'because you are there'. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Thenoran
Caldari Frontier Economics
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Edited by: Nexus Kinnon on 29/02/2008 22:19:03 ... cos they don't wanna get blown up?
You haven't considered logistics and the PvP necessary to secure/hold your space. Nice try though.
Yup. Pretty much. Noone wants to get blown up. Majority of 0.0 alliances are NRDS which basically means if you go there, you arent coming back if you get spotted. The sad part is that even though the majority of 0.0 is uninhabited, its still "claimed" which leaves no room for people to get in.
You say 10 - 20 mil ISK/hr? Why bother if you get shot at and lose your ship once per hour? How are you going to get a replacement ship? Where are you going to put all your stuff? Do carebears really want to bow to the wishes of alliance politics which, in general, are pretty crappy? Maybe CCP should offer incentives (penalties?) to not amass large tracts of space?
I think you have mistaken NBSI (not blue shoot it) for NRDS (not red, don't shoot).
But most alliances will just open fire 'because you are there'.
"Wasn't that guy blue?" "Who cares, he got nice loot!" ------------------------
Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh |
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:37:00 -
[11]
I think most of us aren't in 0.0 because there people get shot at and it's immoral to shoot people.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Thenoran
Caldari Frontier Economics
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ki An I think most of us aren't in 0.0 because there people get shot at and it's immoral to shoot people.
Depends on the shooter and the target ------------------------
Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh |
Kyra Felann
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ki An I think most of us aren't in 0.0 because there people get shot at and it's immoral to shoot people.
lol?
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Ragnar Darkstar
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:46:00 -
[14]
You can't really ask this question of just the empire citizens. I think you also need to ask the large alliances why they don't encourage more pve types into their corporations, or into pet corporations to exploit these resources and then tax them. Eve is large enough to be a semi-fucntional economy. If there really is all this money to be made, some alliance somewhere should be encouraging people to come down and help them exploit it. But from what I see most want high skillpoint pvpers only.
To answer your question, ask RA, Goons, BoB, et al why they aren't recruiting the empire masses to come on down.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Ki An I think most of us aren't in 0.0 because there people get shot at and it's immoral to shoot people.
lol?
People in EVE are free to make their own decisions about what is right and what isn't. If the vast majority of players prefer not to fire upon other players, there's no problem with that. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:51:00 -
[16]
Its because you make more money doing L4's. There's a reason everyone has L4 alt accounts.
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Ki An I think most of us aren't in 0.0 because there people get shot at and it's immoral to shoot people.
lol?
People in EVE are free to make their own decisions about what is right and what isn't. If the vast majority of players prefer not to fire upon other players, there's no problem with that.
Yes, exactly. If someone shoots at me I won't fire back because that would make me a murderer. I think murderers should be locked up. Eve should not promote MURDER!
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:54:00 -
[18]
Money is this games xp grind if you want to play that way. Instead of grinding away boars for furs and gold, you run missions for LP and isk. That said playing this type of gaming makes you semi-special.
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Lord Rue
Gallente GenX Societies Inc. Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:55:00 -
[19]
Quote: Yup. Pretty much. Noone wants to get blown up. Majority of 0.0 alliances are NBSI which basically means if you go there, you arent coming back if you get spotted. The sad part is that even though the majority of 0.0 is uninhabited, its still "claimed" which leaves no room for people to get in.
This.
I'd love to hang out in 0.0 if I could do it without being shot on sight as a potential spy. PC Pirates worry me a lot less then an alliance gatecamp 'protecting their turf'.
Until my alliance claims a slice of 0.0 (unlikely) or I join teh swarm, I am stuck ratting and missioning in hisec unless I have a morbid death wish that day. This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Aprudena Gist
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.29 23:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lord Rue
Quote: Yup. Pretty much. Noone wants to get blown up. Majority of 0.0 alliances are NBSI which basically means if you go there, you arent coming back if you get spotted. The sad part is that even though the majority of 0.0 is uninhabited, its still "claimed" which leaves no room for people to get in.
This.
I'd love to hang out in 0.0 if I could do it without being shot on sight as a potential spy. PC Pirates worry me a lot less then an alliance gatecamp 'protecting their turf'.
Until my alliance claims a slice of 0.0 (unlikely) or I join teh swarm, I am stuck ratting and missioning in hisec unless I have a morbid death wish that day.
there is a part of 0.0 that would be safe for you so long as you followed their policies talk to CVA about it.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.29 23:10:00 -
[21]
Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 29/02/2008 23:10:01 There's also the Free Trade Zone that TCF operates, although I have no idea how any of that works.
Also, if you're from SA, I don't see why you wouldn't join the swarm.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.02.29 23:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ragnar Darkstar You can't really ask this question of just the empire citizens. I think you also need to ask the large alliances why they don't encourage more pve types into their corporations, or into pet corporations to exploit these resources and then tax them. Eve is large enough to be a semi-fucntional economy. If there really is all this money to be made, some alliance somewhere should be encouraging people to come down and help them exploit it. But from what I see most want high skillpoint pvpers only.
To answer your question, ask RA, Goons, BoB, et al why they aren't recruiting the empire masses to come on down.
Oh that's easy.
Deadweight whining carebears make an alliance collapse. Look at how long KOS lasted when someone decided to have a go at them. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.02.29 23:16:00 -
[23]
ôThis means that a system supports 30 active players grinding (not pvp'ing just grinding) 14 hours a week with each player making 280 million a week if there ratting.ö ThatÆs why I donÆt bother with 0.0, such a low profit margin. I can make 100Æs of million and hour in empire all without the risk of being blown up by wondering gangs. As long as you can field a good 1000 to 1500dps tank then in empire you can make crazy money.
I dont see the point in deep space, its low profit for high risk.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.29 23:16:00 -
[24]
I am a Carebear, I am having ample fun where I am now, if either changes, I may relocate... --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.29 23:27:00 -
[25]
I just want to know. Where the hell did you get your mining numebers from --
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Valan
The Fated
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Posted - 2008.02.29 23:29:00 -
[26]
Because other members of the alliance don't want farmers sat there grinding isk when they're supposed running POS for sov and JBs. They definitely don't want them mining when they're supposed to be defending.
Freeloaders aren't welcome. The clue is in the name 'ALLIANCE' a group sahring common objectives and helping each other out not lining their own pockets.
/start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig |
Stern Maxwell
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.29 23:29:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Stern Maxwell on 29/02/2008 23:33:51 Well as far as I see it, being an Empire space guy that tried 0.0 once, these are your options.
1. Join an established 0.0 Corp in an Alliance. 2. Go to 0.0 that doesn't belong to you and get shot by the owner, and have nowhere to store your stuff. 3. Make an attempt to take 0.0 with an Empire Alliance, and get pushed back to Empire the first week. (happened with my last alliance/corp, good guys, we couldn't stand up to a huge Alliance)
When I'm ready, I think I will try option #1 this time.
On another note, 0.0 doesn't seem like it's always the best place, just a different place. There are a lot of fun ways to enjoy EVE. Messing with the Empire markets, trading, small corp warfare, mission running, (fairly safe) relaxing mining, even hauling in a freighter seems to be one of the fun and not nearly as unnerving as flying through low sec things to do. If I was vastly wealthy, 0.0 and low security wouldn't have me on edge so much, but I am not wealthy (yet), I make do. I'm sure that capital ships, massive fleet fights, and even basic security patrols in 0.0 are a blast too.
Edit:
On a third note, I don't know why some EVE players dislike the actions so much as to call them carebears or whatever. Let people play the way they want, thats what is so great about EVE, you can do what you want, you can pirate in high security, or race shuttles in 0.0, there's no restriction on your actions, only consequences. If a group of players gate camp a .4 system, I don't hate them for it, or name call, thats how they want to run a business, or enjoy the game. Yes it affects me, but why should I question their actions. They chose them, they can deal with them. It's not my job, or anyone's job to police what people do. Just my opinion. ___________________________________________
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Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar Imperial Visions
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Posted - 2008.02.29 23:41:00 -
[28]
I dislike the term carebear as you use it to encompass all empire dwellers rather than all combat adverse characters.
I reside entirly within hi sec i dont even venture below 0.5, i do this for a number of reasons.
1) ISK. yes I could earn more in a friendly, secured alliance run true 0.0 sec system, but i earn enough to support what i do, why earn more when i have few expences?
2) freedom. I do what i want when i want, there is no alliance telling me go here defend that POS/system, there are no people who enter a system and prevent me from undocking for fear of instant death.
3)I am a manufacturer and mission runner. I go where the customers are, i go where the suppliers are, i go where the agents are, (i cant run for pirate agents due to standings)
0.0 does not offer me any incentives only many more complications and expences.
I could rat in 0.0 but where do i get ammo supplies from? where do i transport and sell my loot? i would have to regularly run the lo sec gate camps just to do what i do with no ties in hi sec. I need to stop whatever i am doing whenever anybody enters the system just incase they want to kill me?
Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys |
Rimhawk
Caldari Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.02.29 23:51:00 -
[29]
As a FORMER 0.0 player who started in 0.0 in a BOB renter corp, who has done everything from huge fleet ops, POS operations, sieging, deployment of outposts, blockade running, ninja-mining etc. my answer is quite simple: 0.0 is NO FUN anymore.
My reasons are many: 1. Lagfests. Nuff said. 2. I can still travel through lowsec and 0.0 just fine. But try to do anything other than that you tend to get jumped by alliance gangs with overwhelming force. And not reasonable odds (3 to 1 or something) but impossible odds (15 to 1 anyone). Alliances with regional intel channels are worse than concord these days. 3. So take in corpmates you say. We did but the odds seem to increase accordingly. Last weekend 5 of us in fully fitted PVP ships got jumped by a 30 man gang. And all but one of us were 0.0 vets. But you still can't fight those odds. 4. If for once you don't get ganked by a gang from the alliance that owns the region, you happily to run into a warparty looking to start a fight with aforementioned alliance and THEY kill you.
Don't get me wrong. I don't mind small-scale PVP. I don't mind bad odds. I DO mind impossible odds. And with the increasing size of operations in 0.0 it seems to be all we can get these days. The only way to make money off of 0.0 these days is to be in a big alliance or part of big roaming gangs, and many don't have time for that due to R/L.
So I'm content to sit in empire and make 50 million an hour (beat that 0.0). But I do long for the days back when I could go out into 0.0 or low-sec and find some nice PVP at reasonable odds, without getting jumped by huge gangs. But it doesn't really have to do with profits or losing stuff. I'm too rich for that anyway. It's just no fun anymore. That's all.
PS: I'm not the only one. Of the 15 or so core group of friends I have in EVE, 13 went into 0.0 with me 2 years ago. The past half year all but 3 or so have returned to empire because: 0.0 Is No Longer Fun. .
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Kestrix
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.03.01 00:08:00 -
[30]
I'm currently mining 400 mill units of tritanium, I can do that very nicely in Empire thanks. I make billions here just on veld why should I go to 0.0?
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