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Jamus Drakkon Caldari Confederate Government	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:22:00 - [31] Originally by: Zizzyx Originally by: Jamus Drakkon There is where you are wrong, I have been in two alliances now that the Goons screwed over. These alliances were +10 BLUE allies not just NAP'd allies and in both instances they did not uphold their promise of aid when sovern systems were being seiged and in both instances Goons took actions that were the deciding factor in laying waste the the defensive ability of said alliances. One was political turning and back alley deals to get the alliance wrecked and the other was overt treason to the multi alliance defense. I was not an enemy until the second, I wrote off the first as an honest mistake despite the evidence given to me at the time. The second was full of evidence also. This time I understood what it is to be an "ally" to the Goonswarm. Name names or it never happened. FREGE... KOS...
Minbiry Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Jamus Drakkon Originally by: Zizzyx etc etc FREGE... KOS... looooooooooool
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:29:00 - [33] Originally by: Minbiry Originally by: Junkie Beverage Originally by: Jamus Drakkon blahblhabblhab guessing votf JB are you getting the fc training in 4 thread beneath this i havent read that is it a good read or no can i get a tl;dr
Julian Shran Amarr Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:30:00 - [34] Originally by: Minbiry Originally by: Jamus Drakkon Originally by: Zizzyx etc etc FREGE... KOS... looooooooooool Post with your main please...
Julian Shran Amarr Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:30:00 - [35] Originally by: Junkie Beverage Originally by: Minbiry Originally by: Junkie Beverage Originally by: Jamus Drakkon blahblhabblhab guessing votf JB are you getting the fc training in 4 thread beneath this i havent read that is it a good read or no can i get a tl;dr Stay on topic please...
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:33:00 - [36] Originally by: Junkie Beverage Originally by: Minbiry Originally by: Junkie Beverage Originally by: Jamus Drakkon blahblhabblhab guessing votf JB are you getting the fc training in 4 thread beneath this i havent read that is it a good read or no can i get a tl;dr Yaay offers FC courses for alliances/individuals at 1-10 billion isk pricetags.
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:35:00 - [37] Originally by: Kaldaine Originally by: Junkie Beverage Originally by: Minbiry JB are you getting the fc training in 4 thread beneath this i havent read that is it a good read or no can i get a tl;dr Yaay offers FC courses for alliances/individuals at 1-10 billion isk pricetags. does he prorate for peptalks or no also can i pay him to fc for a diff alliance how would that even work
Cursive Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:36:00 - [38] Words. Words. Words.
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:39:00 - [39] Originally by: Junkie Beverage Originally by: Kaldaine Originally by: Junkie Beverage Originally by: Minbiry JB are you getting the fc training in 4 thread beneath this i havent read that is it a good read or no can i get a tl;dr Yaay offers FC courses for alliances/individuals at 1-10 billion isk pricetags. does he prorate for peptalks or no also can i pay him to fc for a diff alliance how would that even work peptalk jokes were played out within the first several posts how could you not predict that
Civrax GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:46:00 - [40] There is a certain degree of dependability when dealing with Goons. You pat our back, we pat yours. We patted yours, you recruited farmers and carebears: nice return.

Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:47:00 - [41] Originally by: Julian Shran As for the "Generousity" of Goons to nubs, if you need bodies to throw at HACS then you need to give them cheap free ships... They do. Not only that, individual members shower them with random ISK donations at all times. Seriously, there is no corporation in Eve that loves on their newbies and supports them like Goonfleet. Not a single one. Anyone who has any experience with Goonswarm knows this. It's always "aww, cute newbie. Sending ISK."
Julian Shran Amarr Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:53:00 - [42] Edited by: Julian Shran on 04/03/2008 22:55:52 Originally by: Civrax There is a certain degree of dependability when dealing with Goons. You pat our back, we pat yours. We patted yours, you recruited farmers and carebears: nice return. I think what he is refering to is the patting someone's back with a knife in your hand. Curiously, isn't anything not PVP related considered carebearing? So moon mining would count? I am sure there are a fair amount of "Carebears" in the ranks of the Swarm also, otherwise you would not have the income you do have from minerals and reactions. Tell me this: At what point do the Goons determine that an alliance is full of carebears? When they want theire moons? Then eventually Goons will determine everyone is full of them and will take whatever it deems as the "corrective" action. Someone earlier implied that I have no idea of the workings of Goons. If that is so, then how can Goons ever hope to know the workings of another alliance and determine that they are full of carebears? This is just weak logic.
Pokcha GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:54:00 - [43] the newbie lotteries are the best a rifter fitted with 3x cccs? i wish i could get me one of them.
Zizzyx GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:55:00 - [44] Originally by: Jamus Drakkon FREGE... KOS... Wasn't around long enough to go to know anything about FREGE but I do distinctly remember when AAA set you hostile for attacking their POSes - which, even though it didn't cause Goonswarm proper to set you red, did completely destroy any sympathy goons had for any of you losers. Everything that happened after that you really had coming to you. One day people will learn that if you don't play nice, you will get stomped on. If you don't bring anything useful to the table, why assume that we have an obligation to protect you? Goonswarm practically gives away regions, stations, whatnot and all that we ask is that you be useful. If you're useless, you're gone, it's that simple. Why would we take time away from our own war to help you if you can't even begin to help yourselves? We're not America, we're Goonfleet.
Civrax GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:55:00 - [45] Edited by: Civrax on 04/03/2008 22:56:24 Originally by: Julian Shran Originally by: Civrax There is a certain degree of dependability when dealing with Goons. You pat our back, we pat yours. We patted yours, you recruited farmers and carebears: nice return. I think what he is refering to is the patting someone's back with a knife in your hand. Curiously, isn't anything not PVP related considered carebearing? So moon mining would count? I am sure there are a fair amount of "Carebears" in the ranks of the Swarm also, otherwise your would not have the income you do have from minerals and reactions. Tell me this: At what point do the Goons determine that an alliance is full of carebears? when they want their moons? Then eventually Goons will determine everyone is full of them and will take whatever it deems as the "corrective" action. Someone earlier implied that I have no idea of the workings of Goons. If that is so, then how can Goons ever hope to know the workings of another alliance and determine that they are full of carebears? This is just weak logic. Yes, your logic is quite weak: thanks for clarifying that for everyone. And we didn't take corrective action, KOS attacked AAA (aka, KOS took it's own best corrective action).
Zizzyx GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:58:00 - [46] Originally by: Julian Shran I think what he is refering to is the patting someone's back with a knife in your hand. Curiously, isn't anything not PVP related considered carebearing? So moon mining would count? I am sure there are a fair amount of "Carebears" in the ranks of the Swarm also, otherwise your would not have the income you do have from minerals and reactions. Tell me this: At what point do the Goons determine that an alliance is full of carebears? when they want theire moons? Then eventually Goons will determine everyone is full of them and will take whatever it deems as the "corrective" action. Someone earlier implied that I have no idea of the workings of Goons. If that is so, then how can Goons ever hope to know the workings of another alliance and determine that they are full of carebears? This is just weak logic. If you want to be an industrial alliance, that's all well and good - that's what MRCHI does. However, even MRCHI has plenty of people that show up on alliance operations - hell, one of our great FCs is from MRCHI. And barring that, we're usually pretty friendly with people that don't do much combat support but help us by way of supporting our industrial backbone... but if you don't do either we aren't going to do jack to help you when someone else drops the hammer.
Julian Shran Amarr Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:02:00 - [47] Originally by: Civrax Edited by: Civrax on 04/03/2008 22:56:24 Originally by: Julian Shran Originally by: Civrax There is a certain degree of dependability when dealing with Goons. You pat our back, we pat yours. We patted yours, you recruited farmers and carebears: nice return. I think what he is refering to is the patting someone's back with a knife in your hand. Curiously, isn't anything not PVP related considered carebearing? So moon mining would count? I am sure there are a fair amount of "Carebears" in the ranks of the Swarm also, otherwise your would not have the income you do have from minerals and reactions. Tell me this: At what point do the Goons determine that an alliance is full of carebears? when they want their moons? Then eventually Goons will determine everyone is full of them and will take whatever it deems as the "corrective" action. Someone earlier implied that I have no idea of the workings of Goons. If that is so, then how can Goons ever hope to know the workings of another alliance and determine that they are full of carebears? This is just weak logic. Yes, your logic is quite weak: thanks for clarifying that for everyone. And we didn't take corrective action, KOS attacked AAA (aka, KOS took it's own best corrective action). From what I know AAA attacked and KOS asked for Goon assistance and then were informed after a large battle that was to destroy a BoB fleet that Goons would not shoot AAA. Then when Goons were asked for help KOS found Goons following KOS fleets providing AAA intel on locations and ship makeup. Additionally during that time KOS were kicked form all Southern Coalition intel channels. This was supposedly during the time KOS was still part of the Coalition. Also if you are unable to argue a point with some intelligence and can only quote bits of test attmepting to dissuade other from reading then do not bother. Give informative facts and then people can see what Goons are about.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:04:00 - [48] Originally by: Julian Shran Originally by: Civrax There is a certain degree of dependability when dealing with Goons. You pat our back, we pat yours. We patted yours, you recruited farmers and carebears: nice return. I think what he is refering to is the patting someone's back with a knife in your hand. Curiously, isn't anything not PVP related considered carebearing? So moon mining would count? I am sure there are a fair amount of "Carebears" in the ranks of the Swarm also, otherwise your would not have the income you do have from minerals and reactions. Tell me this: At what point do the Goons determine that an alliance is full of carebears? when they want theire moons? Then eventually Goons will determine everyone is full of them and will take whatever it deems as the "corrective" action. Someone earlier implied that I have no idea of the workings of Goons. If that is so, then how can Goons ever hope to know the workings of another alliance and determine that they are full of carebears? This is just weak logic. Believing that Goons had any kind of moral obligation to help KOS against AAA is seriously weak logic. You recruit farmer corps into the alliance who then go and rat in Goon space without permission, and then you pick a fight with AAA (who are definitely better friends to Goons than you) and you expect Goons to help you?
Julian Shran Amarr Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:04:00 - [49] Originally by: Zizzyx Originally by: Julian Shran I think what he is refering to is the patting someone's back with a knife in your hand. Curiously, isn't anything not PVP related considered carebearing? So moon mining would count? I am sure there are a fair amount of "Carebears" in the ranks of the Swarm also, otherwise your would not have the income you do have from minerals and reactions. Tell me this: At what point do the Goons determine that an alliance is full of carebears? when they want theire moons? Then eventually Goons will determine everyone is full of them and will take whatever it deems as the "corrective" action. Someone earlier implied that I have no idea of the workings of Goons. If that is so, then how can Goons ever hope to know the workings of another alliance and determine that they are full of carebears? This is just weak logic. If you want to be an industrial alliance, that's all well and good - that's what MRCHI does. However, even MRCHI has plenty of people that show up on alliance operations - hell, one of our great FCs is from MRCHI. And barring that, we're usually pretty friendly with people that don't do much combat support but help us by way of supporting our industrial backbone... but if you don't do either we aren't going to do jack to help you when someone else drops the hammer. This is exactly what I am talking about. If the Goons do not see a profit from someone they will orchestrate their demise in a harsh and swift manner. No reasons given other than "see you didn't give use your (insert what Goons desire) so we cannot help you."
Julian Shran Amarr Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:07:00 - [50] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Julian Shran Originally by: Civrax There is a certain degree of dependability when dealing with Goons. You pat our back, we pat yours. We patted yours, you recruited farmers and carebears: nice return. I think what he is refering to is the patting someone's back with a knife in your hand. Curiously, isn't anything not PVP related considered carebearing? So moon mining would count? I am sure there are a fair amount of "Carebears" in the ranks of the Swarm also, otherwise your would not have the income you do have from minerals and reactions. Tell me this: At what point do the Goons determine that an alliance is full of carebears? when they want theire moons? Then eventually Goons will determine everyone is full of them and will take whatever it deems as the "corrective" action. Someone earlier implied that I have no idea of the workings of Goons. If that is so, then how can Goons ever hope to know the workings of another alliance and determine that they are full of carebears? This is just weak logic. Believing that Goons had any kind of moral obligation to help KOS against AAA is seriously weak logic. You recruit farmer corps into the alliance who then go and rat in Goon space without permission, and then you pick a fight with AAA (who are definitely better friends to Goons than you) and you expect Goons to help you? Not a moral obligation, but as part of the Coalition Goons agreed that they along with the rest would defend only if sovern space was threatened. They did not and invited AAA and VENOM to take the space. Broken promises because KOS would not give up some prom and dyspro moons.

Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:15:00 - [51] Goons have become a lot like BoB, but they will never be exactly like BoB. You see, BoB can PvP. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Cursive Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:16:00 - [52] Originally by: Julian Shran This is just weak logic. And that is ad hominem and not "logic" at all. Pretty much everything you've said is a text-book logical fallacy, but YAWN. <-- See, I bolded that, it means SERIOUS YAWN. Forums are the best.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:16:00 - [53] Originally by: Julian Shran Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Julian Shran Originally by: Civrax There is a certain degree of dependability when dealing with Goons. You pat our back, we pat yours. We patted yours, you recruited farmers and carebears: nice return. I think what he is refering to is the patting someone's back with a knife in your hand. Curiously, isn't anything not PVP related considered carebearing? So moon mining would count? I am sure there are a fair amount of "Carebears" in the ranks of the Swarm also, otherwise your would not have the income you do have from minerals and reactions. Tell me this: At what point do the Goons determine that an alliance is full of carebears? when they want theire moons? Then eventually Goons will determine everyone is full of them and will take whatever it deems as the "corrective" action. Someone earlier implied that I have no idea of the workings of Goons. If that is so, then how can Goons ever hope to know the workings of another alliance and determine that they are full of carebears? This is just weak logic. Believing that Goons had any kind of moral obligation to help KOS against AAA is seriously weak logic. You recruit farmer corps into the alliance who then go and rat in Goon space without permission, and then you pick a fight with AAA (who are definitely better friends to Goons than you) and you expect Goons to help you? Not a moral obligation, but as part of the Coalition Goons agreed that they along with the rest would defend only if sovern space was threatened. They did not and invited AAA and VENOM to take the space. Broken promises because KOS would not give up some prom and dyspro moons. Dude, the Goonswarm general membership were itching to kill you off for the things you were doing (like the aforementioned KOS farmers in Goonspace). If the Goon leadership had really wanted to kill you off, I'm sure they would have preserved that pleasure for Goonswarm.
Julian Shran Amarr Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:24:00 - [54] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Dude, the Goonswarm general membership were itching to kill you off for the things you were doing (like the aforementioned KOS farmers in Goonspace). If the Goon leadership had really wanted to kill you off, I'm sure they would have preserved that pleasure for Goonswarm. This is the deflection they needed and orchestrated. These "agreements" are only followed by Goons if is suits them. To do not want to be known for betrayal, so this is the tactic. The ratting in Goon space was an excuse. KOS had the entire Teneferis region. KOS ratted there. Goons took space in Teneferis and said it was ok for those KOS members still in those systems to rat and then turned tables when KOS did not want to hand over valuable moons. It is a lie and an excuse to make Goons look like they were in the right.
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:25:00 - [55] let me clear this up for you "Once upon a time there was a shobon little alliance named KOS who had some decent leaders and members and joined the winning team when their buddies threw them to the wolves. Then a lot of time passes and they stay pretty shobon but get a lot of farmers in there and well that's annoying but then their leaders go mostly afk. Then this ****face who has killed every alliance he's ever been in gets into a position of near power in KOS and then spends the next month recruiting every player he can find (like he did in his last two failed alliances) and causing huge drama with people who should be his friends (like he did in his last two failed alliances) so that he can prove how STRONG and NEEDED his leadership is in this time of crisis." so here we are the third time an alliance has been killed by this blowhard yet someone is acting surprised for some reason
Julian Shran Amarr Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:29:00 - [56] Originally by: Junkie Beverage let me clear this up for you "Once upon a time there was a shobon little alliance named KOS who had some decent leaders and members and joined the winning team when their buddies threw them to the wolves. Then a lot of time passes and they stay pretty shobon but get a lot of farmers in there and well that's annoying but then their leaders go mostly afk. Then this ****face who has killed every alliance he's ever been in gets into a position of near power in KOS and then spends the next month recruiting every player he can find (like he did in his last two failed alliances) and causing huge drama with people who should be his friends (like he did in his last two failed alliances) so that he can prove how STRONG and NEEDED his leadership is in this time of crisis." so here we are the third time an alliance has been killed by this blowhard yet someone is acting surprised for some reason Name names or it didn't happen...
Junkie Beverage GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:29:00 - [57] Edited by: Junkie Beverage on 04/03/2008 23:29:37 seriously i have never said an unkind word about kos and firk is my brosef for lyfe but the leaders towards the end were pants on head short-busers
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:36:00 - [58] Originally by: Julian Shran Originally by: Reem Fairchild Dude, the Goonswarm general membership were itching to kill you off for the things you were doing (like the aforementioned KOS farmers in Goonspace). If the Goon leadership had really wanted to kill you off, I'm sure they would have preserved that pleasure for Goonswarm. This is the deflection they needed and orchestrated. These "agreements" are only followed by Goons if is suits them. To do not want to be known for betrayal, so this is the tactic. The ratting in Goon space was an excuse. KOS had the entire Teneferis region. KOS ratted there. Goons took space in Teneferis and said it was ok for those KOS members still in those systems to rat and then turned tables when KOS did not want to hand over valuable moons. It is a lie and an excuse to make Goons look like they were in the right. Anyone who was in Goonswarm at the time (yes, this is an alt, my main is... indisposed... for 2 weeks ) knows that what I wrote is true. The regular members wanted to kill KOS and kept being told by the directors to calm down. And this was going on for at least a month, I think more, before you and AAA started fighting.
Erik Amirault Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:52:00 - [59] I didn't read a single word in this thread except the title. I am posting to increase my post count.
Mo Steel Caldari Sanguis vix Dignatio	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:59:00 - [60] Originally by: Kaldaine Originally by: Julian Shran Weren't the original Goons fighting just that kind of hippocracy? We are still very much so fighting the good fight against hippos. Winner of thread. ----- Want a sig made? Eve-Mail me, signatures made for 5 million isk each.



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