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Convention request : EFT warrior-ing

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Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.05 13:42:00 - [1] IF any of you EFT warriors plans to post anything... a) DO NOT overload EVERY module, unless you're trying to show off volley damage or anti-alpha resists ; the nature of heat means that setup can't last long that way to begin with, so.. just don't do it, unless you give a VERY good reason why you overload any of the modules, and then SPECIFY how long it lasts before it breaks down b) whenever you quote DPS numbers of ANY kind, include optimal/tracking/falloff numbers for turrets, and explosion velo/radius plus warhead velocity for missiles, or your post WILL be rejected out of general principles c) stop over-using modules with metalevel above 5 and T2 rigs. If at all possible, don't use ANY of those to begin with... or if you do, make that a relatively CHEAP item (i.e. LP-shop stuff). Just about any NON-CAPITAL fit that sports T2 rigs or officer modules is, as people say, "FAIL". d) there's no such thing as "perma-run" for PvP fits, unless your INJECTOR can provide 100% of the needs ; there's no such thing as "perma-run" for PvE fits if you're using any injectors at all ; there's also no such thing as a "perma-run" fit for missions/complexes/whatever that sport any capacitor warfare e) NEVER forget to include any implants or gang effects used, and DO specify that you used the "all L5 skills" char, if you did That is all. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate The InterBus Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:08:00 - [2] There are many T2 rigs that cost between 15m-40m to build from a ME0 BPC. Some rigs like Poly IIs, ANC IIs are very expensive, but thats no reason to rule out the cheaper ones.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:09:00 - [3] Edited by: Akita T on 05/03/2008 14:10:16 Well, problem is, most of the rigs used in "fantasy fits" by EFT warriors are those expensive rigs. And the reason they're expensive it's because they're in demand, and they're in demand because they're useful. I suppose you can see where this is going Hence, the use of the terms "cheap" and "just about" in the phrasing of "paragraph c". 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:11:00 - [4] preety much QFT by the OP ---------------------------------- This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time. PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
Gram Hellfire Smoking Hillbillys Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:15:00 - [5] I had a buddy who pew pew'd in a Raven with T2 cap recharge rigs. God was he ****ed when it popped.
Deadeye Devie Minmatar	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:19:00 - [6] /signed if i do have to EFT to help someone, i tend to leave off rigs and try and use the cheapest for quality mods i can. i am personally aversed to using best named T1 turrets over T2 as most ppl who want a ship of that race tend to have the T2 skills and the turrets are cheaper. Also using your own characters skills to fit the ship helps you to compromise an 'optimal dream fit' in favour of attainable running fit due to cap/pg/cpu/etc. All to 5 fittings are all good and well, but TBQFH do not benefit anyone who is asking for the ship fit!!! Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both.
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:24:00 - [7] when i post fits or stuff from EFT i allmost allways use my skills or my alts skills only. i only use the mods that i can afford and would fit on ships myself (if i havent allready bought a ship like that :D) usually most fits i post i have tryd myself ingame so i know abit about them. i use all skills 5 character to see how much im missing in dps or tanked dps from maxed skills in that particular ship... helps me decide if its worth the effort to max the ship or weapon system skills :D ---------------------------------- This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time. PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
Ima Nub	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:35:00 - [8] Obvious troll is obvious. There I said it too. I find it laughable that you're in all seriousness trying to police people in the subject of EFT like you knew more about it than anyone else out there. Like it actually matters if people use T2 rigs on their raven EFT setups. Onoes it can't be called perma-run if there's any chance at all someone has a neut fitted to their ship. lul. So please, in all consideration to us normal people who like to read these forums without having to endure this kind of abrasive rabble, stfu, and if you don't like someone's EFT post just click the back button on your browser.
Deadeye Devie Minmatar	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:38:00 - [9] Originally by: Ima Nub Obvious troll is obvious. There I said it too. I find it laughable that you're in all seriousness trying to police people in the subject of EFT like you knew more about it than anyone else out there. Like it actually matters if people use T2 rigs on their raven EFT setups. Onoes it can't be called perma-run if there's any chance at all someone has a neut fitted to their ship. lul. So please, in all consideration to us normal people who like to read these forums without having to endure this kind of abrasive rabble, stfu, and if you don't like someone's EFT post just click the back button on your browser. .....pot, kettle???!?!?!?!? i read nothing abbrasive till this alt posted.... Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:38:00 - [10] I think the OP's post is more aimed at the ""xxxx" ship is overpowered cause it does mega damage in EFT. Nerf it" posters. In which case, /signed, though I doubt it'll do any good. Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:39:00 - [11] Only beef I have with EFT is this People assume DPS and damage on the basis of first second of fire or first volley. They should use damage over time. If EFT designer can develop such a built in chart, it would be great! Originally by: CCP kieron ISK buying is a major contributor to the inflation in EVE's economy.
Ima Nub	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Deadeye Devie Originally by: Ima Nub Obvious troll is obvious. There I said it too. I find it laughable that you're in all seriousness trying to police people in the subject of EFT like you knew more about it than anyone else out there. Like it actually matters if people use T2 rigs on their raven EFT setups. Onoes it can't be called perma-run if there's any chance at all someone has a neut fitted to their ship. lul. So please, in all consideration to us normal people who like to read these forums without having to endure this kind of abrasive rabble, stfu, and if you don't like someone's EFT post just click the back button on your browser. .....pot, kettle???!?!?!?!? i read nothing abbrasive till this alt posted.... He's telling us how to use EFT like he's laying out rules, and how our EFT setups will be "rejected" and whatnot. I find it offensive and it's exactly this kind of attitude that makes these forums so elitist and hostile (which I admit I'm contributing towards right now, sorry about that).
Msobe	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:51:00 - [13] Edited by: Msobe on 05/03/2008 14:53:58 If you don't like his "abusive" post, kindly follow your own advice, and click the back button on your browser. Obvious troll, it turns out, is DAMN obvious. Edit: The EFT monkeys do annoy me a lot. I just tend to ignore it though, since its the equivalent of a 13 year old who got into his dads girly mags and can't tell the difference between fantasy and "reality." Not that EVE is exactly real, but EFT is a simulation of a game . . . only useful if you understand its limits, and what it can really tell you.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:53:00 - [14] All bow before Akita T, king of the forums! Or dont bother. Up to you. C. Improved Low Sec Idea!!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Ima Nub He's telling us how to use EFT like he's laying out rules, and how our EFT setups will be "rejected" and whatnot. And that's exactly what I'm doing. Spelling out the ground rules. Rules that most people consider "common sense". But that NEED to be specified since so many IGNORE them. Then wonder why nobody takes them seriously. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Ima Nub	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Msobe If you don't like his "abusive" post, kindly follow your own advice, and click the back button on your browser. I said abrasive. Other than that, you're completely right
Terianna Eri Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:58:00 - [17] Addendum to first post: Do not overload shield boosters when you have boost amps fitted. I believe boost amps have a 100% heat damage attribute or something such that, if you overload a shield booster, you will (understandably, if you think about it) instantly blow out your amps. So please don't point to overloaded, dual-officer boost amped shield tanks. __________________________________
Msobe	Posted - 2008.03.05 15:00:00 - [18] So you did. Abusive was how I read your post - Akita came off to me as direct, not abrasive. Teach me to try and respond from memory though, wonder what I'm smoking? <laffin>
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.05 15:52:00 - [19] Quote: I find it offensive So follow your own advice and click the back button on your browser? That said, I tend to reject almost all "Omg this ship is overpowered look at its EFT fit" out of hand. If it's a comparison between two ships both using a similar EFT fitting that is reasonable (T2 gear, T1 rigs) then I might investigate further.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.06 15:19:00 - [20] Precisely what Ulstan said. If you're trying to "compare" two ships, or "prove" one of them is "broken" or "underpowered" or "overpowered" or whatnot, you'd better not use some broken/underpowered/overpowered module/rig/whatever to show that. It's like that "omg full Estamel Raven State Issue with full high-grade Crystal set can tank more than a dread in siege"... well, duuh ! 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Trojanman190 Yultani Advanced Research and Reproduction	Posted - 2008.03.06 15:26:00 - [21] He could just open source it so dudes like me can add the stuff we have always wanted... 1. DPS breakdown by damage type. 2. DPS at range X option. 3. DPS against target of sig size Y option. 4. DPS against target with transversal Z option. 5. Combination of all of the above. The simplest, and the one I want the most, is the first one. Would be fantastic for comparing setups against each other and would probably be extremely easy to do.
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.03.06 15:50:00 - [22] i agree with most of this bar the lines about perma running, CERTAIN ships perma run just fine, its not very common but it's certainly possible. both in PvP and PvE, IE ceptors, tanking abbadons, etc etc. but yes, in the main i compleatly agree, EFT warriors with fantasy fits **** me off. EFT warrior : but your nano ship does not perma run, mine does. me: whilst your slowboating away from gate at 2.2k i am doing 3.8k to get off gate, there for i live and you die. honestly. ------- woot a sig ------- Linkage
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.03.06 16:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Akita T there's also no such thing as a "perma-run" fit for missions/complexes/whatever that sport any capacitor warfare You know, except for passive fits, those really passive ones. Drowzy ones, almost.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.03.06 16:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Trojanman190 He could just open source it so dudes like me can add the stuff we have always wanted... 1. DPS breakdown by damage type. 2. DPS at range X option. .... The simplest, and the one I want the most, is the first one. Would be fantastic for comparing setups against each other and would probably be extremely easy to do. Well, those two are almost in plain sight there. Damage type is behind cahrge info. Damage at range X is....well, you get optimal and falloff...okay, some more automated info there would be nice.
Deux Machina	Posted - 2008.03.06 16:36:00 - [25] There are a few exceptions: - I really do put faction warp disruptors and webs on my PVP ships. - I really do fit faction armor reps, shield boosters, damage mods, weapons, webs, etc on my Mission PVE ships. They are for making money efficiently. - I do not faction fit my Ratting PVE ships (but do rig them). - I really don't rig all ships, but anything BC+ and HAC+, I definitely rig. I wouldn't T2 rig unless it was a capital - I wouldn't fit officer mods unless it was a supercap or unique ship (Fedathron). - Comedy fits As a general rule, when quoting a ship setup, use some common sense. If you wouldn't buy it, fit it, and fly it that way... you probably shouldn't post it.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.03.06 16:37:00 - [26] Originally by: Ima Nub Originally by: Deadeye Devie Originally by: Ima Nub Obvious troll is obvious. There I said it too. I find it laughable that you're in all seriousness trying to police people in the subject of EFT like you knew more about it than anyone else out there. Like it actually matters if people use T2 rigs on their raven EFT setups. Onoes it can't be called perma-run if there's any chance at all someone has a neut fitted to their ship. lul. So please, in all consideration to us normal people who like to read these forums without having to endure this kind of abrasive rabble, stfu, and if you don't like someone's EFT post just click the back button on your browser. .....pot, kettle???!?!?!?!? i read nothing abbrasive till this alt posted.... He's telling us how to use EFT like he's laying out rules, and how our EFT setups will be "rejected" and whatnot. I find it offensive and it's exactly this kind of attitude that makes these forums so elitist and hostile (which I admit I'm contributing towards right now, sorry about that). You can do whatever you want with EFT, but if you're going to be on the forums and talk about how different ships perform versus each other, game balance issues, or give fitting advice then you have to use some basic common sense and not give completely unrealistic numbers.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.06 16:38:00 - [27] Edited by: Akita T on 06/03/2008 16:43:41 Originally by: Qui Shon You know, except for passive fits, those really passive ones. Drowzy ones, almost. Except for those, yeah. But those aren't "omfg overpowered" There's no true asinine EFT warrior that won't be pushing complex/officer active tank modules alongside T2 CCC rigs and cap rechargers or PDUs Originally by: Deux Machina exceptions: - I really do put faction warp disruptors and webs on my PVP ships. - I really do fit faction armor reps, shield boosters, damage mods, weapons, webs, etc on my Mission PVE ships. [...] As a general rule, when quoting a ship setup, use some common sense. If you wouldn't buy it, fit it, and fly it that way... you probably shouldn't post it. Well, those help a lot, and are not that expensive for the edge they give you in combat. PvE ships, you might want to start reconsidering, there's a whole 9-page thread over in missions already about exactly that. I suppose you DON'T overload your PvE ship, for instance... and you do overload your web or MWD in PvP, or even your guns when target's about to break... if you can make good use of that extra range, speed or extra damage (you just don't do it constantly). But yeah, common sense is all that's needed, like you said, and most others here did too Originally by: Reem Fairchild You can do whatever you want with EFT, but if you're going to be on the forums and talk about how different ships perform versus each other, game balance issues, or give fitting advice then you have to use some basic common sense and not give completely unrealistic numbers. Bingo ^ 2 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.03.06 16:50:00 - [28] I fully agree with the OP. ------------------------------------------
Deux Machina	Posted - 2008.03.06 17:42:00 - [29] The T2 ship skills at 5 are rather rare (even disregarding the "all level 5 crap") - but some provide a "bigger" boost than others: - Logistics 5 allows for some crazy fits to actually work that simply are not even possible to attempt with Logistics 4 - Recon 5 has huge fitting implications for Recons - etc If you're going to post a fit that requires the T2 ship skill at 5 - make note of that and advise us of the performance at level 4.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.03.06 18:32:00 - [30] OP makes some fair points I think, but what do I know? EVE RELATED CONTENT
Tashiell Gao Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:10:00 - [31] Edited by: Tashiell Gao on 06/03/2008 19:12:03 sigh..akita..if these ETF-warriors can understand your reasoning of your post, they wouldn't become an ETF-warrior in the first place. no need waste server space and your braincells for them. Just ignore those comparison posts. Edit: page turning reply...... Tashiell Gao, Minmatar RolePlayer.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.19 14:32:00 - [32] One can only hope to at least re-educate a part of them... or at least make them doubt their "insight"... 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.03.19 14:39:00 - [33] I don't agree with this. The finances of various people is wildly different - for example I have a full T2 Paladin fit, but that's affordable for me. Perhaps the posters asking for setups should post a budget? That seems far more reasonable than asking everyone to provide potentially less-than-best-for-the-money-the-character-has posts. ----------------------------- "Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow." "Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?" "..."
Ima Nub Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.19 14:46:00 - [34] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I don't agree with this. The finances of various people is wildly different - for example I have a full T2 Paladin fit, but that's affordable for me. Perhaps the posters asking for setups should post a budget? That seems far more reasonable than asking everyone to provide potentially less-than-best-for-the-money-the-character-has posts. Sorry, no. The rules are stated very clearly in the original post by Akita T on page one. If you don't like them please uninstall EFT and never post your setups here again. All your setups are belong to him.
Xaen Caritas.	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:30:00 - [35] Originally by: Akita T IF any of you EFT warriors plans to post anything... a) DO NOT overload EVERY module, unless you're trying to show off volley damage or anti-alpha resists ; the nature of heat means that setup can't last long that way to begin with, so.. just don't do it, unless you give a VERY good reason why you overload any of the modules, and then SPECIFY how long it lasts before it breaks down b) whenever you quote DPS numbers of ANY kind, include optimal/tracking/falloff numbers for turrets, and explosion velo/radius plus warhead velocity for missiles, or your post WILL be rejected out of general principles c) stop over-using modules with metalevel above 5 and T2 rigs. If at all possible, don't use ANY of those to begin with... or if you do, make that a relatively CHEAP item (i.e. LP-shop stuff). Just about any NON-CAPITAL fit that sports T2 rigs or officer modules is, as people say, "FAIL". d) there's no such thing as "perma-run" for PvP fits, unless your INJECTOR can provide 100% of the needs ; there's no such thing as "perma-run" for PvE fits if you're using any injectors at all ; there's also no such thing as a "perma-run" fit for missions/complexes/whatever that sport any capacitor warfare e) NEVER forget to include any implants or gang effects used, and DO specify that you used the "all L5 skills" char, if you did That is all. Linkage - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:33:00 - [36] Originally by: Ima Nub Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I don't agree with this. The finances of various people is wildly different - for example I have a full T2 Paladin fit, but that's affordable for me. Perhaps the posters asking for setups should post a budget? That seems far more reasonable than asking everyone to provide potentially less-than-best-for-the-money-the-character-has posts. Sorry, no. The rules are stated very clearly in the original post by Akita T on page one. If you don't like them please uninstall EFT and never post your setups here again. All your setups are belong to him. grin It does sound that way, doesn't it. I've supported Akira in alot of things because usually he makes sense, but this seems a bit wild. I mean will there then be conventions for posting DPS stats that aren't from EFT? Or are we not allowed to approximate anymore? ----------------------------- "Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow." "Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?" "..."
Drek Grapper Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.19 15:43:00 - [37] When i see EFT fits i hate the 'all Level 5' thing...i mean seriously, lets be realistic and post your setup with your skills and maybe some extra 'all Level 5' info as a meter. This arguing about ships with all LV5 skills a bit much.. --------- If the Thorax was a car it would look like this
J'Mkarr Soban Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.03.19 16:19:00 - [38] Originally by: Drek Grapper When i see EFT fits i hate the 'all Level 5' thing...i mean seriously, lets be realistic and post your setup with your skills and maybe some extra 'all Level 5' info as a meter. This arguing about ships with all LV5 skills a bit much.. That's a fair point. Perhaps the request should be for standardised information to be provided by the requester to better aid people offering fits? Perhaps a link to the API to directly plug into EFT? That, a budget, and some specific questions (what's it for, against whom etc, the ones that always get asked) could really streamline things. Almost like a request for information form ----------------------------- "Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow." "Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?" "..."
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.19 16:23:00 - [39] What i don't understand is... Those daft enough to claim the game should be rebalanced through EFT, those daft enough to compare things with ludicrous setups and expect to make a point with it. Would they not be merely as daft as the ones buying it? As far from reality as the ones who fail to recognize a classic ludicrous build when they are presented one? To read the idea and tendency out of posts including this kind of posts rather than scream and ***** about the extra 1.8% dps the spec V grants? To give them a point however, the game is and needs to be balanced by maxed out characters. Not that that is what you're after or complaining about. Postcount: 13877
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.19 16:44:00 - [40] With a large group of people like we have you can't set these sort of guidelines and expect people to be smart and do the right thing. It's your responsibility to sift through the info, evaluate its credibility and decide what is useful and what is to be dismissed. /makes fart noise
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.20 00:39:00 - [41] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban Originally by: Ima Nub Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I don't agree with this. The finances of various people is wildly different[...]Perhaps the posters asking for setups should post a budget? <sarcasm>The rules are stated very clearly in the original post by Akita T on page one. If you don't like them please uninstall EFT and never post your setups here again. All your setups are belong to him.</sarcasm> [...]I've supported Akita in alot of things because usually he makes sense, but this seems a bit wild. I mean will there then be conventions for posting DPS stats that aren't from EFT? Or are we not allowed to approximate anymore? Well, rules are there to be broken, there's exceptions to be made, etc. I have absolutely nothing against somebody prefacing his post with something like "I'm Entity's brother, and he let me fly this setup on SiSi", or with "I have invested all my money into this one, but nevery actually fly for fear of losing it"... then afterwards, they can post whatever hell of a setup they want, seriously. But whenever EFT Warrior X comes up with some insane setup that "proves" that ship Y is "overpowered" (see "HG Crystal implants, full Estamel Siege Golem") because it can "tank forever more than a dread" while "dealing insane damage" or whatnot other absurd claims... you don't expect anybody to actually take him seriously, do you ? Bonus points to whoever can point out more than just "nos/neut enemies" and "insanely low sensor strength" as reasons why such a setup is big no-no in PvP. Problem is, well, he (hypothetical EFT Warrior X) actually DOES expect to be taken seriously, as he DOES believe what he just said. Simply because he blindly trusts in what EFT shows at first glance, without regards to ACTUAL combat situations. ____ So, yeah, I have absolutely nothing against people that compare insane fits on insane ships, especially if they're mission-boats, I have nothing against those that post something they ACTUALLY use or at least plan to use, and skills they want trained... but I do have everything against people that throw together a completely unfeasable setup, use an implanted "all L5" pilot and then quickly declare it "overpowered" without actually using their brain to think of scenarios, situations, things the enemy can do and so on and so forth. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.20 02:00:00 - [42] Originally by: Akita T But whenever EFT Warrior X comes up with some insane setup that "proves" that ship Y is "overpowered" (see "HG Crystal implants, full Estamel Siege Golem") because it can "tank forever more than a dread" while "dealing insane damage" or whatnot other absurd claims... you don't expect anybody to actually take him seriously, do you ? Bonus points to whoever can point out more than just "nos/neut enemies" and "insanely low sensor strength" as reasons why such a setup is big no-no in PvP. Don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it. Also, IIRC, some of those Estamel's items don't actually drop... but what do I know? -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.

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