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Cailais
Amarr VITOC Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:11:00 -
[31]
0.5 - CONCORD doesnt respond to attacks in space away from gates or stations.
Simple really.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Drasked
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:14:00 -
[32]
Did the same suggestion about a year ago when i was still into pirating low-sec.
But here we are now, stopped pirating and 3 accounts further.
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:15:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Martin Mckenna
Originally by: Nova Fox if this happens 0.5 woudl empty out and become another low sec space nobody would bother with, if you want a better idea check my idea in my sig.
#
Seriously did you think about what you just said there.
Pirates would not be able to be the agressors in 0.5 becuase they would be shot down by concord. But if someone felt they had what it takes to kill the pirate the pirate could engage back.
So its no risk for your avrage empire dude, just a risk for the pirate...
Like the idea alot but would have to be looked into more detail first.
That is assuming the pirate is solo. What I imagine is the low sec pirate comes into 0.5. Some Empire guy opens fire on him and the pirate's buddies in his gang that no one knew about come warping in from the belt they were hiding in and kill the Empire guy 8 versus one.
Empire guy comes to the forum and whines about how the mechanics should be changed.
Sort of like how all of you are doing right now.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:17:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/03/2008 12:18:15
Originally by: Hasak Rain
I sympathize with anyone who has to use an alt to move things to and from Empire because of sec status but it is no different than when the gatecampers tell "Mr. Soloer" to use an alt to go through those gates into Low sec or Null or else risk getting ganked.
Or how about "get some friends?" I am constantly seen posts of people telling others to get some friends to check the gate so why can't you get friends to haul into Empire for you?
Sorry but the sword cuts both ways. Adapt or die.
I have, just like everyone else, adapted.
I've got friends who drag me ships, and I've got alts (same account) to drag my modules and sell my loot. That's hardly a issue - I'm doing very fine, really (I believe I've explained the process of operating in low-sec on the same account in another thread just a bit back, look it up).
The thing is, it's not much of a 'consequence', it's merely a inconvenience (and I don't like the whole alt business on principle honestly) to have to use alts for hauling/etc.
Having 0.5 something you can come into (but have concord responding to any agression/etc) would mean I could dump it in the local 0.5 system for selling/buying and could dispose of the alts which is something I would love to be able to do even if it did increase the risk when it comes to loot hauling/resupplying for me compared to what it is now (which is incredibly low).
I can see the problem with suiciding ships there, though.
Originally by: Hasak Rain
That is assuming the pirate is solo. What I imagine is the low sec pirate comes into 0.5. Some Empire guy opens fire on him and the pirate's buddies in his gang that no one knew about come warping in from the belt they were hiding in and kill the Empire guy 8 versus one.
Aggro mechanics don't work this way.
The pirate's friends cannot respond to any agression versus him, even if they're in fleet/etc/etc, they get a gcc and sentry (and therefore, concord) aggro for firing on someone who fired on their outlaw friend.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
sheila tankian
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:17:00 -
[35]
what about making the faction police a little easier to beat instead of almost permajam instapop so on etc so you can fight your way in or run from them at least?
concord stays the same of course and no faction spawning right away but with higher sec more reinforcements from the faction police.
any good?
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Orion Eridanus
Dark Nova Crisis Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:17:00 -
[36]
A lot of you don't seem to understand the risk, to the pirate of all people. If the pirate needs to go a 0.5 system to get supplies chances are he's gonna be in a hauler, last time I checked a hauler isn't gonna be able to suicide gank anything on its own.
Now what anti-pirate or hauler who's lost his hauler in low sec wouldn't jump on the opportunity to extract some vengance on the outlaw in a hauler? BTW because he's an outlaw his pod is fair game as well.
To all those saying there would be an increase in the number of suicide ganks, whats stopping the outlaw from just creating an alt to do that, nothing thats what.
Plus this has the potential to lead to new market hubs other than jita ours, rens, amarr
I see nothing wrong with adding the 0.5 system as an additional border system. In 0.4's we can shoot who ever we want. In 0.5's we can't shoot anyone unless fired upon but everyone can shoot us. Seems like a fair trade off with the potential for much profit and plenty of risk involved as well.
Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:19:00 -
[37]
actually no i wasnt thinking...
i was only going off the title and multitasking way to many things and forgot to read.
0.5 should allowed concord low sec players in but imo if you got the factions to hate you in the area you arnt going to be docking anywhere in those systems.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:20:00 -
[38]
Originally by: sheila tankian what about making the faction police a little easier to beat instead of almost permajam instapop so on etc so you can fight your way in or run from them at least?
concord stays the same of course and no faction spawning right away but with higher sec more reinforcements from the faction police.
any good?
Yeah, and they could stop locking like every ship is a sensor-boosted stilleto, that'd work too.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:20:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Orion Eridanus A lot of you don't seem to understand the risk, to the pirate of all people. If the pirate needs to go a 0.5 system to get supplies chances are he's gonna be in a hauler, last time I checked a hauler isn't gonna be able to suicide gank anything on its own.
Now what anti-pirate or hauler who's lost his hauler in low sec wouldn't jump on the opportunity to extract some vengance on the outlaw in a hauler? BTW because he's an outlaw his pod is fair game as well.
To all those saying there would be an increase in the number of suicide ganks, whats stopping the outlaw from just creating an alt to do that, nothing thats what.
Plus this has the potential to lead to new market hubs other than jita ours, rens, amarr
I see nothing wrong with adding the 0.5 system as an additional border system. In 0.4's we can shoot who ever we want. In 0.5's we can't shoot anyone unless fired upon but everyone can shoot us. Seems like a fair trade off with the potential for much profit and plenty of risk involved as well.
You say that as if -10 pirates would only go into highsec to haul stuff. I imagine that's the last thing they would do, TBH.
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:22:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Hasak Rain on 07/03/2008 12:22:33
Originally by: Orion Eridanus A lot of you don't seem to understand the risk, to the pirate of all people. If the pirate needs to go a 0.5 system to get supplies chances are he's gonna be in a hauler, last time I checked a hauler isn't gonna be able to suicide gank anything on its own.
Now what anti-pirate or hauler who's lost his hauler in low sec wouldn't jump on the opportunity to extract some vengance on the outlaw in a hauler? BTW because he's an outlaw his pod is fair game as well.
To all those saying there would be an increase in the number of suicide ganks, whats stopping the outlaw from just creating an alt to do that, nothing thats what.
Plus this has the potential to lead to new market hubs other than jita ours, rens, amarr
I see nothing wrong with adding the 0.5 system as an additional border system. In 0.4's we can shoot who ever we want. In 0.5's we can't shoot anyone unless fired upon but everyone can shoot us. Seems like a fair trade off with the potential for much profit and plenty of risk involved as well.
Read my last post before this one. All this does is setup yet another way a Pirate can bait an unknowing player.
You can argue that the Empire guy could just not engage the pirate but where is the risk to the pirate then?
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:24:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
You say that as if -10 pirates would only go into highsec to haul stuff. I imagine that's the last thing they would do, TBH.
You'd have three potential reasons to go: (a) haul (but quite definitely NOT in a hauler) (b) suicide gank (this would obviously be a problem) (c) bait people into attacking (this is obviously very risky, given your gangmates CANNOT help you without getting a gcc, and, therefore, concorded)
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:24:00 -
[42]
How about this?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=625147&page=5#125
Related to a larger idea, but pirates all over the place, more or less.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Orion Eridanus
Dark Nova Crisis Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:24:00 -
[43]
If the system worked like kill rights or can flagging then only the pirate that was attacked would be able to shoot back, any others that got involved would be concorded
Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Orion Eridanus If the system worked like kill rights or can flagging then only the pirate that was attacked would be able to shoot back, any others that got involved would be concorded
Okay, that would be a bit more reasonable then.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Read my last post before this one. All this does is setup yet another way a Pirate can bait an unknowing player.
Learn the aggro rules for outlaws.
If me and five of my outlaw buddies are, say, in fleet and sitting at a gate and five anti-pirates jump in, this is what happens: -they primary X. -X can shoot at all of them in retaliation -the rest of us get a GCC for shooting any of their ships.
GCC in low-sec means sentry aggro, which is tankable. GCC in high-sec means concordokken.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:26:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Orion Eridanus If the system worked like kill rights or can flagging then only the pirate that was attacked would be able to shoot back, any others that got involved would be concorded
That IS how it works.
Do any of you people PvP in low-sec?? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Drasked
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:27:00 -
[47]
They should just remove all the faction police from the game, so that -10 can go anywhere but on their own risk of course, this will bring you 1 step closer to being able to police for yourself.
If this is not an option then they should just leave it the way it's now; "if you lower your sec you will have to live with the consequences"
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Orion Eridanus
Dark Nova Crisis Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:29:00 -
[48]
Yes Captain I pvp in low sec, I just had to explain it in carebear terms so they would understand it.
Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:33:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Read my last post before this one. All this does is setup yet another way a Pirate can bait an unknowing player.
Learn the aggro rules for outlaws.
If me and five of my outlaw buddies are, say, in fleet and sitting at a gate and five anti-pirates jump in, this is what happens: -they primary X. -X can shoot at all of them in retaliation -the rest of us get a GCC for shooting any of their ships.
GCC in low-sec means sentry aggro, which is tankable. GCC in high-sec means concordokken.
Thanks, I admit I didn't know that. I assumed that anyone in a gang could shoot at an aggressor. I figured everyone in the gang was considered "one entity."
Then again, I only pvp solo in null sec.
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:34:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Orion Eridanus Yes Captain I pvp in low sec, I just had to explain it in carebear terms so they would understand it.
A carebear who could probably take you out.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:34:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
You'd have three potential reasons to go: (a) haul (but quite definitely NOT in a hauler)
That's quite what I meant, as someone suggested that they would be defenseless in a hauler
Quote: (b) suicide gank (this would obviously be a problem)
This is the main issue I think, as it undermines the idea of punishing players for doing just that
Quote: (c) bait people into attacking (this is obviously very risky, given your gangmates CANNOT help you without getting a gcc, and, therefore, concorded)
Yeah, taking this into consideration, it wouldn't be such a terrible thing. But, honestly I wouldn't mind if I could work for the pirate factions who's standings I've ruined but I don't see that happening either
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Maor Raor
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:35:00 -
[52]
Make 0.4 behave this way and you fix 2 problems.
You get carbears into lowsec (Via concord protection) and spread out the empire population a bit. And you get you outlaw accessable market hubs in 0.4
much better idea
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Kyoto Luyi
MX3 Development Zzz
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:35:00 -
[53]
Originally by: SleepingBuddah I think it would be fun it the outlaws could live in 0.5 It means CONCORD will response on criminal agression, but Navy should not KOS the outlaw.
0.6 and higher works fine now, but 0.5 is like 'border' security between lowsec and highsec and outlaws should be allowed there.
/fail
Carebear rat wannabe... -- The views or opinions I express are solely my own and do not reflect those of my Corporation or Alliance.. Oh, and I'm NOT allowed in CAOD either :) |
Orion Eridanus
Dark Nova Crisis Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:37:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Maor Raor Make 0.4 behave this way and you fix 2 problems.
You get carbears into lowsec (Via concord protection) and spread out the empire population a bit. And you get you outlaw accessable market hubs in 0.4
much better idea
yes a much better idea to make non consensual pvp even more difficult
Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:46:00 -
[55]
This sort of thing has been suggested many times before. Traditionally people respond to these suggestions with, "Do the crime, do the time". But meh, sounds like a fun sort of thing to me.
That being said, I can immediately see an easy bait tactic flashy reds could use.
- Setup a jetcan near a gate in a .5 - Wait for some CNR or similar to come along - Lock the CNR and hope they have lock-back still enabled - Fire a torp or cruise at your own jetcan
Should the CNR player be afkish, seeing a flashy red apparently shooting at them (missile explosion + flashing red might confuse them), a fair percentage of players could be baited into firing back.
Wee! Good times.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Burnharder
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Orion Eridanus
Originally by: Maor Raor Make 0.4 behave this way and you fix 2 problems.
You get carbears into lowsec (Via concord protection) and spread out the empire population a bit. And you get you outlaw accessable market hubs in 0.4
much better idea
yes a much better idea to make non consensual pvp even more difficult
No, he's right. Turn it around. What is the point of outlaws going into a 0.5 if they cannot initiate an act of aggression, unless it's just so they won't necessarily need to wash their sec status in-between suicide ganks? So,
(1) Outlaws avoid some of the consequences of suicide ganking - this is bad
(2) More empire players head out of 0.5 into 0.6, effectively turning 0.5 into a kind of 0.45, ie. mostly empty.
(3) The whole idea is a non-sequitur, because the premise is based on the fact that empire players will just stick around as normal when their system gets more dangerous. They won't. That is why low sec is so empty.
Neeeeeeeeeeexxt.
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.03.07 13:02:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Burnharder
Originally by: Orion Eridanus
Originally by: Maor Raor Make 0.4 behave this way and you fix 2 problems.
You get carbears into lowsec (Via concord protection) and spread out the empire population a bit. And you get you outlaw accessable market hubs in 0.4
much better idea
yes a much better idea to make non consensual pvp even more difficult
No, he's right. Turn it around. What is the point of outlaws going into a 0.5 if they cannot initiate an act of aggression, unless it's just so they won't necessarily need to wash their sec status in-between suicide ganks? So,
(1) Outlaws avoid some of the consequences of suicide ganking - this is bad
(2) More empire players head out of 0.5 into 0.6, effectively turning 0.5 into a kind of 0.45, ie. mostly empty.
(3) The whole idea is a non-sequitur, because the premise is based on the fact that empire players will just stick around as normal when their system gets more dangerous. They won't. That is why low sec is so empty.
Neeeeeeeeeeexxt.
1) Pirates already dodge the consequences by using alts. Their sec status drops to -10 and stays there and they don't care for a reason.
2) Why would Empire players avoid 0.5? They would still be safe as long as they don't shoot anyone.
3) Again, system only gets as dangerous to you as you want it to be. You can fire at those pirates or leave them be. They can't engage you first.
The more I think about this idea, the more im starting to like it.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.03.07 13:02:00 -
[58]
Whoops I misread the OP (and d'oh on that sec standing thing.) Now that I see what they were initially getting at this idea actually sounds pretty good. Make 0.5 a place where pirates can't shoot you first, but you can shoot at them at your own risk whenever you see one. It might serve to function as a more controlled introduction to PvP for newer players, although undoubtedly it will also get a lot of unprepared and overambitious players killed (no problem with that either.)
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Orion Eridanus
Dark Nova Crisis Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.03.07 13:08:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Orion Eridanus Yes Captain I pvp in low sec, I just had to explain it in carebear terms so they would understand it.
A carebear who could probably take you out.
BTW Remind me to get in touch with you after my current war is over and I'll take you up on the offer.
Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.03.07 13:14:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Orion Eridanus
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Orion Eridanus Yes Captain I pvp in low sec, I just had to explain it in carebear terms so they would understand it.
A carebear who could probably take you out.
BTW Remind me to get in touch with you after my current war is over and I'll take you up on the offer.
Will do. We can have a duel.
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