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Commander Tigre
Minmatar Underworld Protection Agency The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.08 18:30:00 -
[1]
I want to know why the typhoon is not used as a battleship in the tourney. Great drone bay, armor tank is decent at the very least, and good damage output.
thanks
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, your already dead." - Commander Tigre |
Mythrell
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.08 18:39:00 -
[2]
Typhoon can be great against battleships but I don't see it being that effective against smaller stuff, which you most likely see out there. Other thing might be that for flying typhoon "perfectly" (as one would assume all ships in tournament should be flown) would require lots of SP's.
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Karenzi
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.08 18:46:00 -
[3]
A few of the Typhoon bonuses are wasted and there are so many other BSes that can do wath the phoon does but better.
1. BS bonus for phoon is +rof for missiles and proj but the way most BSes are setup in the tourney (high slots for smartbombs/remote rep/cap transfer) you are inevitably going to waste one of those bonuses.
2. With only 4 mid slots that leaves very little room for kind of support mods, most likely the phoon will not be called primary so the 7 low slot tank isnt really going to matter if they drop your support first.
3. Being the fastest BS doesnt really help
There are probably other reasons, the only thing the phoon has going for it is the huge drone bay but a competent team can get around that easily.
In the end, Minmatar suffers from being the jack of all trades. Everything a phoon can do, another BS can do better. Even a Tempest would be better than a phoon imo.
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ry ry
StateCorp Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.08 18:57:00 -
[4]
Edited by: ry ry on 08/03/2008 18:57:02
Originally by: Karenzi 3. Being the fastest BS doesnt really help
dunno, if you're mwding into range it could be a game winner.
i'm disappointed we've not seen any phoons, i think they could be a bit handy with the right skillz+fit, and their drones give them a bit of flexibility.
disclaimer: i love the phoon with all my heart. Signature removed. Too large and flashing signatures are not really permitted. Navigator |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2008.03.08 19:21:00 -
[5]
split weapon gimp the ship, it cant reach same gankage as other BS, and if you try to do so you end up with a so and so gankage and weaker tank
a phoon can work decently as a defensive boat, but again the dominix will be better getting good dps from drones, having more versatility being able to have logistic/ecm drones in bay too and generally to replace the popped ones.
also domi have an additional mid slot (that imo makes the ship not that balanced but that's just my opinion)
so domi have: more versatility, more tankage, more ecm/logistic/dps potential with adefensive setup...
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Cz Ire
Minmatar Unitas Nusquam Est FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.03.08 19:57:00 -
[6]
split weapons is a issue but 4 cruise/torp and 4 highslot utility (nos/neut/remote rep) plus drones; would have to do the math but that might work out better dps wise vs a domi (and still have just about as much remote support)
I think it actually might be a better choice than domi, only issue is replacing popped drones, which obviously the domi does better.
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Sekhmet Orion
Mandatory Suicide Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Commander Tigre I want to know why the typhoon is not used as a battleship in the tourney. Great drone bay, armor tank is decent at the very least, and good damage output.
thanks
If you fit the Phoons tank to be effective it requires all the slots. It has 2 resist holes to plug.
Fitting it like that means its dps is less than a hurricane (well close) and the torps have very short range. Raven does much better missile dps, mega does much better close range dps, Abbadon tanks better, Geddon does dps and tank better, Domi mocks its drone abitlity....so there are plenty of ships that do the same job better.
Phoon is good at a lot of things, but master of none.
(with 4 bcu, and 3 gyro, it does make one of the best suicide ganking ships though )
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 08/03/2008 20:16:46 domi with 2 neuts should outdps a phoon with 4 cruises under 30km (more or less) phoon on its part have that it doesnt need to track but then domi can replace its drone or just put different drones depending what is needed and the additionalmid can be used for cap, eccm or whatever
about 4 gyros 3 bcu... ehm actually is not true... first you have not enought cpu to fit them, given that you strip it of everything to do that fit they will still deal subpar damage compared to other ganked ships...
phoon: 3gyro + 3bcu = 3 dmg mods on 8 weapons abad: 3heat = 3 dmg mods on 8 weapons hype: 3mag = 3 dmg mods on 8 weapons
split weapon is always bad for gankage, is not that as you use 6 dmg mods to reach your max dps it actually deal more dmg than other ships... is quite the opposite
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Commander Tigre
Minmatar Underworld Protection Agency The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:16:00 -
[9]
Problem with the last response, is that all the ships named were very specific. A domi may have a slightly heavier tank, but its weaponry is flimsy at best. Raven is shield tank and shield tanks just are not working in this tourney. A Armageddon has less dps with slightly better tank. Typhoon is a more versatile ship that better protects against all cases. The only real hole in the typhoon is its EW susceptibility. Yes it takes more SP to do it justice, but that is what this tourney is all about. Just my opinion.
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, your already dead." - Commander Tigre |
Sekhmet Orion
Mandatory Suicide Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:19:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Sekhmet Orion on 08/03/2008 20:24:40 Edited by: Sekhmet Orion on 08/03/2008 20:22:24
Originally by: Commander Tigre Problem with the last response, is that all the ships named were very specific. A domi may have a slightly heavier tank, but its weaponry is flimsy at best. Raven is shield tank and shield tanks just are not working in this tourney. A Armageddon has less dps with slightly better tank. Typhoon is a more versatile ship that better protects against all cases. The only real hole in the typhoon is its EW susceptibility. Yes it takes more SP to do it justice, but that is what this tourney is all about. Just my opinion.
As a logistic boat with a little punch, yes the phoon has a role. Thats 4 remote reps, and 5 heavy maint bots. But most would rather have a gaurdian, and have a Mega as the BS
Its a truly versatile ship with many set ups, but focus is what is needed in the tourney.
Edit: Ath. It is very easy to fit 4bcu and 3 gyro on a phoon. 4 siege 4 800. Can't see any power grid or cpu probs. Plus its drones, its one of the hardest alpha strikes there is. It does 1200 dps without heat. And is very cheap
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 08/03/2008 20:34:42 is not just a matter of this tourney also a domi is more versatile and that not because of gimp slot allocation but because drones are a versatile system and its slot allocation/ship bonuses makes the best of the ship (full 6 turrets boosted) and space to fit it effectively for many roles, from gankage to logistic to decent ew
dont forget you have to fit an mwd as the torps are quite short range... also as suicide a full out domi can reach 1.3kdps while hype and mega can almost reach 1.4k dps
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Sekhmet Orion
Mandatory Suicide Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ath Amon is not just a matter of this tourney also a domi is more versatile and that not because of gimp slot allocation but because drones are a versatile system and its slot allocation/ship bonuses makes the best of the ship (full 6 turrets boosted) and space to fit it effectively for many roles, from gankage to logistic to decent ew
Yes Domi is far more useful in general, its drone dmage bonus negates the phoons large drone bay. Its tank is stronger, and has better struct ( with a damage control its a LOT more ) Blaster fit it does better dps with tank, but you have the same flexibility of Neuts, Remote reps or even blasters.
Domi's are still rock hard, but don't mock the gank phoon It really does do crazy damage
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Stern Maxwell
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:42:00 -
[13]
You got your wish today. ___________________________________________
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Sir Hades
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:43:00 -
[14]
Well we can see how the phoon does right now!
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Sekhmet Orion
Mandatory Suicide Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sir Hades Well we can see how the phoon does right now!
Dying badly
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Karenzi
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:44:00 -
[16]
shoulda changed their setup when they read our awesome thread
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Sir Hades
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sekhmet Orion
Originally by: Sir Hades Well we can see how the phoon does right now!
Dying badly
That first phoon folded like a paper tiger T_T
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Norwood Franskly
Minmatar Fleet of the Damned United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:47:00 -
[18]
they just melted :(
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Mythrell
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:47:00 -
[19]
yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Ushra need to work a bit on their FCing, they shot drones on field while I bet the damage came from sentries. Atleast that's how it looked to here. =)
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Sir Hades
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:49:00 -
[20]
I mean, I like the phoon and all, but it does not seem like all that good as a tourney ship. Also, the disco-ness of them was great ^^
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Maggot
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mythrell yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Ushra need to work a bit on their FCing, they shot drones on field while I bet the damage came from sentries. Atleast that's how it looked to here. =)
No we did not. We tried to smartbomb the sentries. We had no counter to nano-ishtars.
We expected heavy ships they brought nanos. Game over and the end of a great tourney for us.
Maggot.
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Cz Ire
Minmatar Unitas Nusquam Est FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.03.08 20:59:00 -
[22]
I dont consider that a valid showing. tbh if it wasnt for the kronos id say they threw that match.
nano-smartbombing bs's ftl - regardless of what bs it is. fit a phoon with something that isnt ******** and try again.
sorry u'k, but for how well you did in your earlier matches this was just a epic fail.
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Maggot
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.03.08 21:08:00 -
[23]
Heh, threw it, we discussed todays setup for 10 hours.
We focused on a Neut based setup to deal with logistics.
We needed a big win, they did not, and I am struggling to think of many setups that could have dealt with what eXceed played today.
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Goberth Ludwig
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.03.08 21:27:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cz Ire nano-smartbombing bs's ftl - regardless of what bs it is. fit a phoon with something that isnt ******** and try again.
they werent nano'ed or smartbombing
bad commentating and camera work obviously failed to show wth happened and then people just think it was a comedy setup of some sorts
- Gob
IXC Recruitment |
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