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Thenoran
The People's Liberation Army
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Posted - 2008.03.14 18:37:00 -
[31]
People who don't have the time or liberty to play in Alliances all the time or join up with their friends for such stuff aren't left with many other options then to go at it solo.
Not that much different from how it might be in the real world, where there are a lot of people on all sides of the law doing their thing on their own because no-one else has the time for it or just doesn't want to do it.
That said, for many of the carebears in High-sec, having friends is more of a social thing then anything else, if 10 of your mates mines out a belt, you will probably end up with less ISK then if you mined solo (especially if you mine a lot). Manufacturing & Research is little different in this.
PvP is for the hundreds of gun-happy people wanting to make holes in ships working together, since you'd end up with 100 vs 1 otherwise.
PvE can be similar, but most of the PvE stuff, except maybe missions, can be worth more in ISK by going solo.
Still, its a lot more fun doing it with a lot of friends.
On the low-sec deal, the only thing I find strange is that a 0.45 system is reasonably safe, but in 0.44 you will get wtfpwned before you can make a profit.
Instead of having a castle (High-sec), a moat (Stargates) and the deep dark forest spreading out slowly from the moat (Low-sec) where are all the Robin Hoods are, the Robin Hoods are literally standing on top of the moat, killing anyone that crosses, although the guards in the castle could probably hit them with their arrows.
The gradient between 0.5 and 0.1 should be less steep then it is now. Make 0.4 a buffer zone (where you cannot Moon mine) where CONCORD is still present but will arrive very late into the action (having to cross the moat) but will still eventually come to your rescue.
This means that trying to mine in your Retriever is a no-go (as it should be), but doing it in a properly tanked Cruiser, Battleship or Exhumer should give a chance for survival.
Once you hit the lower areas (0.3 could be a secondary buffer zone), low-sec is like it is now.
One thing that should be changed though: Low-sec gates going into High-sec should have CONCORD around it, in force. ------------------------
Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh |
Usagi Toshiro
Fringe Financial and Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.14 18:46:00 -
[32]
The OP has a nice idea. I don't see why the Low Sec population would mind it. It may lure more folks into Low Sec which would mean more PvP, which would mean more loot. Maybe the paid guards drop faction equivalent mods?
Or are the Low Sec folks afraid of "carebears" coming onto their turf and stealing their veldspar!
*Takes out some marshmallows to roast over the flames*
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Christari Zuborov
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2008.03.14 18:50:00 -
[33]
There's already a gradient - it goes:
1.0 - .08 => Concorde wtfpwns you. .07 - .05 => Concorde arrivals delayed. .04 - .01 => Attacker must tank gate guns (meaning they cannot act alone for the most part) 0.0 => Anything goes
HiSec already has comparable profit potential as NullSec, in the solo aspect of game play. LowSec is a team play zone in order to be profitable.
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Thenoran
The People's Liberation Army
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Posted - 2008.03.14 18:50:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Usagi Toshiro The OP has a nice idea. I don't see why the Low Sec population would mind it. It may lure more folks into Low Sec which would mean more PvP, which would mean more loot. Maybe the paid guards drop faction equivalent mods?
Or are the Low Sec folks afraid of "carebears" coming onto their turf and stealing their veldspar!
*Takes out some marshmallows to roast over the flames*
Maybe they fear so many mission fitted Drakes will come that they have no chance ------------------------
Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh |
Tank CEO
Dark Cartel Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.14 19:00:00 -
[35]
Low sec solution - grow some balls.
Na for real. All lvl 4 agents should be in low sec. All lvl 4 mission should be done in low sec. Better ore in low sec. Better npcs in low sec. All icefields should be in low sec. Veldspar and pyro should only be in .5+ space, the rest should be in low sec. ------------- Jita is mine.
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000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.03.14 19:03:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tank CEO Low sec solution - grow some balls.
Na for real. All lvl 4 agents should be in low sec. All lvl 4 mission should be done in low sec. Better ore in low sec. Better npcs in low sec. All icefields should be in low sec. Veldspar and pyro should only be in .5+ space, the rest should be in low sec.
I LOLLED!!!
And this would be the end of EVE... Have a nice day. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Doonoo Boonoo
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.14 19:04:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kyoto Luyi
Quote: Viceroys
Viceroyalties are systems in low security Empire space which are administered by a player Viceroy, on behalf of their corporation or alliance. TheyÆll allow you to both turn a better profit and defend your chosen system from pirates, and act as both a way to populate low-sec space and an easier first step on the road to 0.0.
Planned features
If it ever happens...
There's nothing stopping any good,strong Corps setting up in a lo sec system and enforcing an anti pirate rule atm.
Not sure what Viceroyalty(whatever that may be)could do to help weaker people being steam rollered by stronger Corps anyway.
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Nihilion Saro
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.14 19:18:00 -
[38]
I like the idea. Seems maybe a bit complex, probably from a developers stand point as well as for the weekend eve-warrior, but I think these are some ideas worth thinking about.
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Slave 775
Ministry of Punishment Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.14 19:31:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tank CEO Low sec solution - grow some balls.
Na for real. All lvl 4 agents should be in low sec. All lvl 4 mission should be done in low sec. Better ore in low sec. Better npcs in low sec. All icefields should be in low sec. Veldspar and pyro should only be in .5+ space, the rest should be in low sec.
QFT and if where on it, please put the 0.0 rats into lowsec and the lowsec ones into 0.0
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Bish Ounen
Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.14 19:32:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tank CEO Low sec solution - grow some balls.
Na for real. All lvl 4 agents should be in low sec. All lvl 4 mission should be done in low sec. Better ore in low sec. Better npcs in low sec. All icefields should be in low sec. Veldspar and pyro should only be in .5+ space, the rest should be in low sec.
Buwaaahaaahaaahaaahaaaaa!
If you move level 4 missions to lowsec, Do you know how many mission runners you would get? Yep. The same amount as you get now with level 5 missions. NONE. Same thing goes for moving ore out to lowsec. NOBODY is going to come out there and let you gank them. It is literally safer for people in my Alliance to sit in an Alliance controlled system belt in a Hulk mining and tanking the 0.0 rats than it is to mine in lowsec.
The thing you guys don't get is that the Mission runners and Mining carebears DO NOT WANT TO FIGHT YOU. They aren't interested in being forced into a situation where they will be easily ganked. If CCP keeps steadily removing the rewards from hisec, all that will happen is that carebears will leave, and the barrier to entry for new players will go higher and higher. In the meantime, EVE will start losing more and more players, until the only people left are bored lowsec pirates, and Chinese sweatshop miners mining veldspar in hisec. At that point CCP will go out of business, and then you lowsec pirates will have to go to WOW. Is that REALLY what you want?
If you want to PVP, join a 0.0 Alliance, or do like I do in my spare time, Pirate in Hisec! It's much more challenging, and a whole heck of alot more fun when you do it right. If you INSIST on having NO risk while stealing people's things, do some Ninja salvaging in Hisec. Hey, wrecks are showing up on the directional scanner again, so it should be much easier now.
As far as "fixing" lowsec, The only way you will fix it is to have Empire police with a slow response time, and to move some good ores from 0.0 into lowsec. The risk is WAY too high for the reward, so lowsec is the ghetto of EVE.
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ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.03.14 19:58:00 -
[41]
umm, NO
if you want to fix low sec then simply remove all missions and ores from high sec to low sec
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Zev'Nar
Carebear Salvagers Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.03.14 20:38:00 -
[42]
My idea is a "Don't Panic" Button.
You buy it from some NPCs. It's a one time use. You bring it with you in hazardous situations. You get in trouble, your press it and Concord shows up in a couple seconds.
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Burnharder
Tiny Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.14 20:44:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Zev'Nar My idea is a "Don't Panic" Button.
You buy it from some NPCs. It's a one time use. You bring it with you in hazardous situations. You get in trouble, your press it and Concord shows up in a couple seconds.
Haha, full marks for the most amusing solution so far
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Slave 775
Ministry of Punishment Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.14 22:09:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Zev'Nar My idea is a "Don't Panic" Button.
You buy it from some NPCs. It's a one time use. You bring it with you in hazardous situations. You get in trouble, your press it and Concord shows up in a couple seconds.
Crtl-Q ?
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Dramund
Atonement Arms
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Posted - 2008.03.14 22:14:00 -
[45]
I'd like to load up a freighter with enough explosives to wipe out a 100 km radius around the stargate, eject, then send it through.
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insidion
Last of the Technocracy Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.03.15 06:14:00 -
[46]
Nice idea actually, and could easily be tied in to factional warfare really. Love it, hope they add it.
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Norwood Franskly
Fleet of the Damned United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.15 07:21:00 -
[47]
The sad thing is 0.0 is actually safer then low-sec, in 0.0 you get intel that a hostile gang is inbound you can park a dictor (and a rapier, if its a nano gang) on the gate wait for them to arrive drop a bubble and blob them, with cyno jammers you don't even need to worry about them dropping carriers on you. If you don't have the numbers you keep an eye on local and hide in the pos shields till they get bored.
In lowsec its a lot harder because the gate guns stop a pre-emptive strike so it gives the benefits to the attacker (who is usually setup to tank the gate guns) not the defender.
Aside from that whats the benefit that lowsec has, the ore isn't that good (compared to 0.0) and neither are the rats. A lot of 0.0 alliances are willing to recruit industrial corps straight from empire (thereby by passing low sec all together)and for pvp based corps lowsecs a good training area so no problems there.
The people you really want to be attracting to low sec are mission runners, but in relality these people have no motivation to leave high sec.
Maybe they should make a bunch of static complexes in low sec, I can see these becoming big areas people would fight over with different alliances vying for control of them.
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Lusulpher
Raddick Explorations Friend or Enemy
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Posted - 2008.03.15 07:46:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Lusulpher on 15/03/2008 07:47:26 Yes, lowsec badly needs more reward....
"Maybe they should make a bunch of static complexes in low sec, I can see these becoming big areas people would fight over with different alliances vying for control of them."
^^^ He's onto something...
As to the original post...What would stop other people from abusing this feature? Pirates hiring their escorts also Macroplayers too(Yes, there are now ratter macros)
And the serverloading makes this idea kinda impractical. A very good idea in other circumstances though.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- EVE Best Community, baby!
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Faife
Blackrain Solutions
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Posted - 2008.03.15 20:03:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lusulpher Edited by: Lusulpher on 15/03/2008 07:47:26 As to the original post...What would stop other people from abusing this feature? Pirates hiring their escorts also Macroplayers too(Yes, there are now ratter macros)
And the serverloading makes this idea kinda impractical. A very good idea in other circumstances though.
i dont think server load would be any worse than normal pve missions and the ships those spawn.
as for abuse: maybe you need positive security status and a high enough faction/corp standing to hire guards, pirates would need to stay above +1.0 sec status or something. something to make it harder. maybe price varies depending on how much faction likes you and your sec? something like that.
alternatively, the ships maybe only jump in to help if you're attacked, vs attacking, but that might just lead to low sec can flippers.
and macro abuse: macro people definitely use that, but that's not a bad thing. just more spawns for pirates to kill and loot, and bigger gun fights when taking down afk miners/ratters. seems good all around.
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Astria Tiphareth
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.17 09:49:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 17/03/2008 09:53:06
Originally by: ArmyOfMe if you want to fix low sec then simply remove all missions and ores from high sec to low sec
If this was intended as a joke, well done, I laughed a lot. If you were being serious, then you've really missed the point of having high-sec space at all.
Originally by: Senghir The problem with this game is little pvp *****s who want to be able to gank at their leisure, and then ***** and whine on the forums when people make a decision to stay in high sec to avoid getting ganked by twenty ships to one.
These threads come around often enough. Here's a summary of the life of the low sec topic:
Step 1: "how come no-one in low sec? f**king carebears. This sucks, why can't I gank?"
Step 2: "I dont want to come to low sec because it's full of pirates and no-one else"
Step 3: "I hate carebears. CCP always buff carebears. Low sec is empty."
Step 4: *insert solution to get people to come to low sec*
Step 5: "epic fail. idiot. go back to high sec moron"
Step 6: "why no-one in low sec!!!"
Quoted for truth.
If people can't discuss this issue without seeing both sides of the coin then it's pointless. Pirates - learn to respect industrialists and their desire to not be your target. Industrialists - learn to respect the pirates and their desire to be evil. If you can't do that, don't waste time posting. EVE without pirates would be dull. EVE without industrialists would be expensive.
If you want people in low-sec, it has to be worth going and risking your ISK. A faction-fit mission runner isn't going to survive a low-sec gatecamp, so why should it go there? If you want to really really fix low-sec, address gatecamps. They are the primary source of complaint by those on the receiving end of piracy, with good reason, because really gatecamps give you two choices - don't go there, or lose all your stuff.
Who in their right mind is going to pick choice 2?
Now on the other hand if low-sec is a place where you can turn up in safety, head out into the system, and then run the risk of running into some low-life pirate scum (purely in roleplay terms ), as several popular threads have discussed, then it becomes worthwhile because there is a chance you will not be noticed; the risk is lessened from impossible to doable.
Personally I disagree with the OP's idea, in that escorts are available from mercenary corps if you really want them; the issue isn't how big your escort is, the problem is that when your hauler jumps into a gatecamp of 20 ships, your hauler is going to die no matter what escort you have. Fighting gatecamps with bigger fleets is just encouraging blobbing. The current system of gatecamping needs fixing. Plenty of constructive threads out there already. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.17 11:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kyoto Luyi
Lowsec isn't a 'game' at all any more to be honest. People only go there if they're stupid, or looking for ganks...
Literally, a waste of space
Your character is a waste of database space. I propose it gets deleted as a part of the need for speed initiative.
Originally by: Senghir I was thinking about low sec NPC guards too. I like the idea, might get more people into lowsec. The problem with this game is little pvp *****s who want to be able to gank at their leisure, and then ***** and whine on the forums when people make a decision to stay in high sec to avoid getting ganked by twenty ships to one. blah blah
This thread was started by a carebear saying 'give me NPC assistance'. 99% other threads (boost sentries, etc, etc) are started by carebears wanting the game to help them.
What do you expect?
Naturally people will respond with a 'OK, move L4s to low-sec/etc/etc'. I'm personally tired of carebears trying to 'fix low-sec' where they don't even go to.
Originally by: Bish Ounen
The thing you guys don't get is that the Mission runners and Mining carebears DO NOT WANT TO FIGHT YOU. They aren't interested in being forced into a situation where they will be easily ganked. If CCP keeps steadily removing the rewards from hisec, all that will happen is that carebears will leave, and the barrier to entry for new players will go higher and higher.
Rubbish.
It would just mean that my alliance mates (we have actual frigging carebears in the alliance) would be mining while I'm ganking people at gates/etc. Double profits...
Originally by: Norwood Franskly The sad thing is 0.0 is actually safer then low-sec, in 0.0 you get intel that a hostile gang is inbound you can park a dictor (and a rapier, if its a nano gang) on the gate wait for them to arrive drop a bubble and blob them, with cyno jammers you don't even need to worry about them dropping carriers on you. If you don't have the numbers you keep an eye on local and hide in the pos shields till they get bored.
Sad thing is that the uberblob solves all your security problems. It's safer because we can blob better...
Low-sec is quite safe if you have friends as well. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Slapnuts MkGee
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.17 11:38:00 -
[52]
Honestly...I hope it stays as is...keep everyone afraid of lo-sec. I spend most of my time in hi-sec, but then I discovered low-volume high-value courier runs, and how profitable they can be when the routes run through lo-sec. I made 2-million ISK in 1 hour doing that...got targeted twice, but had more than enough speed and skill to jump, or warp out of the situation before anyone could do anything about it. Not bad for a six day old carebear.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 12:57:00 -
[53]
Noone goes into lowsec because there is no point in going there. Rewards are too low and risk is too great. Even for individuals, I think eventually you're better off either finding some quiet spot in deep 0.0 or in some NPC station in 0.0 space.
And its hard to find things that could make lowsec more attractive. I also think that pirates should generally welcome changes that makes lowsec more attractive to live in, even if it seems like a nerf to them. What piracy really needs is more people in lowsec, even if they are harder to catch.
Few ideas: - Make agents only give missions in the current system. That could make it more attractive for agent runners to run missions there, since they don't have to run the gauntlet of gatecamps nearly every time they wanna do a mission. Disadvantage for pirates is that there will be less lowsec agentrunners using jumpgates in their CNRs. But on the upside, if indeed more people come to lowsec, pirates get a chance to catch them on their supplyruns to Empire.
- 0.0 is more attractive than lowsec. What would happen if there was no lowsec, and all the lowsec is turned into 0.0, with all the corresponding benefits in terms of better rats etc, and no gate guns. Gateguns don't do much anyway.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 12:58:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Slapnuts MkGee Honestly...I hope it stays as is...keep everyone afraid of lo-sec. I spend most of my time in hi-sec, but then I discovered low-volume high-value courier runs, and how profitable they can be when the routes run through lo-sec. I made 2-million ISK in 1 hour doing that...got targeted twice, but had more than enough speed and skill to jump, or warp out of the situation before anyone could do anything about it. Not bad for a six day old carebear.
2 million per hour is nice for the first three weeks of playing perhaps. If you are ingame a little longer, you can rat in 0.0 and make 10m an hour even in the worst systems, and upwards of 30m an hour in the best ones. And less hostiles than lowsec.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar The Unseen Company
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Posted - 2008.03.17 13:19:00 -
[55]
In fact I don't have any problem finding targets in lowsec. No problem finding people eaget to fight too. We're newbies as pirates and we die a lot, and have quite a bit of fun and learn a lot of small pvp too. And most targets are other pirates :).
For "if you nerf profit in highsec people will go play WoW" its plain stupid. Only ISK sellers play for isk. A normal sane player plays for fun. It doesn't matter if you make 2 or 50 million per hour if everyone around makes simmilar profit.
Normal players will rather run fun, exciting and varied missions making 2 million per hour then boring repeatable grind for 50 per hour. To get "OMG I'm so poor" You need someone to compare and compete first, and if highsec profits are nerfed, they are for everyone.
Raven Navy with officer launchers is not more exciting to fly for someone with 30 billion then a caracal wfor someone with 10 million. In caracal you at least have something to aspire to. In officer fitted Raven Navy your only joy is making same mission yet 40 seconds faster.
I'll post an idea for lowsec missioneer self-defense later :)
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Ronmamita
Dragoon Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.17 15:37:00 -
[56]
BEEF up the penalties on criminals in HIGH Security (0.5 and higher) space! Protect the innocent, law abiding pilots and STOP protecting the law breaking, dishonorable pirates!
CCP needs to increase the penalties for crimes in High Security space. After a couple of murders the criminals should be quickly restricted from entering high sec. The criminals would still have six (6) security levels to Roam; however, honorable players would have more freedom to develope their skills and profits in (5 security levels) a more secure space than today. Asteroid/Ice mining activities have been severely altered by criminals! U can't use the jettison can feature anymore without risking loosing your hard earned, time consumming, and vitally precious ore! I offer these suggestions to resolve security issues in high secure space: 1.) Allow +0.1 and above players to place bounties on any player with a -0.2 or below security status. Now we can have honorable skirmishes instead of the "bullying" and Ambush tactics practiced today! Reminds us of the ill mannered big, older kid beating the younger, smaller and weaker kid; Very childish, really. 2.) Concord should lower a player's security status more quickly, and severely for repeated offenders! After 2 or 3 offenses and observing his/her security status dropping it is fair to say that this character has chosen a path of the Dark-side. Exclude his/her freedom to leisurely commit more crimes in high security space! 3.) Pirates with a "Wanted" sticker (a bounty and security status of -0.2 and below) should be attacked on sight by concord in 0.5 - 1.0 sectors of the empire! Concord could (due to limited resources) maintain the same relaxed guns in 0.1 - 0.4 as it does today. 4.) Allow Anti-Pirate players to form Corps (APCs corps & alliances) with a security standing of +0.2 and above to form security watches in 0.1 and above space (0.1 - 1.0 space). Allow these APC corps to PVP on all pirate players with a security status of -0.2 and below. This means a APC member would be allowed to shoot a criminal (with a security status of -0.2 and below) anywhere in the Eve universe! With Concord's gratitude and appreciation for making space safer. {This is a fantastic feature; and would allow honorable players more opportunities for PVP!}
After reviewing these exceptionally fair proposals, you quickly realize how well protected the pirates in Eve are! The Pirates will still command a larger piece of the Eve universe, with the most profitable (and dangerous) sectors in 0.0 space. However, now the noobs and honorable players have options after a pirate attack and criminal behavior! This is a slight improvement for fair game-play in Eve.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar The Unseen Company
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Posted - 2008.03.17 16:04:00 -
[57]
Being a carebear, pvper or pirate doesn't have much to do with honor directly. One can be a honorable pirate and spare newbies and those who payed ransom.
Security status loss indeed would better be changed by <current>*2*<system sec status>, so in systems above 0.6 you'd loose more then today, and in 0.1-0.4, less. Little sec status loss in 0.1 would make those systems realistically more dangerous then 0.4, people would pod there more often etc.
Placing bounty and killing everyone with -0.2 sec status and bounty is just silly. small negative sec status is not typical for notorious pirates but rather for happy carebears who aggressed someone by accident once or defended their corp mate in lowsec.
Pirates have no artificial advantage. They have as much problems with (other) pirates as carebears, they just have (player) skills to possibly fight back :)
When my corp does some happy weekend piracy, targets we kill are usually other pirates and we usually die under fire of other pirates :)
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Kagura Nikon
Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 16:12:00 -
[58]
Low sec don't need more security. Low sec just need things more psread appart and further form high sec borders.
Create the sensation of semi empty space , with lots of area for the pirates to roam to find a prey (not simply wait at the only spot in 20 jumps radius with something interesting) ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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DitchDigger
Hibi Proletariat Zzz
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Posted - 2008.03.17 21:19:00 -
[59]
I agree with the OP. Current Risk VS Reward is tremendously imbalanced in favor of predators. Something needs to be done to buff potential prey.
- Add a low secure version of the Hulk (requiring exhumers V) that has atleast a solid cruiser sized shield tank and 100 MHZ worth of drones.
- Add a 2nd tier of sentry drones that deal 50% more damage but take about 5 minutes to deploy. This would give exhumers some real teeth.
- Create hidden asteroid belts that have to be searched out.
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