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Zhen Zhu
NEW DAWN CO INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.03.20 15:07:00 -
[31]
Well.. aside from the amount of money you make afk mining... you know.... if you guys stopped whining about the terrors of high sec.. joined up and moved to 0.0 and mined the good stuff... You would probably be making closer to 100 mil/hour. But yes now you couldn't do it AFK.. and you would have to watch your back... and be aligned for Safe Spots.. and watch local..and operation channels.. and all that other fun stuff us 0.0 pvp'ers do without thinking.
But you want 0 risk and 100% gain.
Well if goonies are loosing their ships and blowing up your AFK hulk.. sounds like they are working within game mechanics.
Here is an idea.. that might help or at least make it more inconvenient for goonies or others to use this tactic:
Raise the sec hit significantly for criminal acts involving ship destruction in Empire... a lot. This means the same people that are using this tactic wont be able to do it more than lets say once or twice..they will have to leave high sec entirely and not be allowed back in until they need to go back and grind 0.0 ratting or missions or whatever they do to raise their sec status back up.
If this were the case ... and if I was a goonie.. I'd try it once or twice and then after a month or so of grinding 0.0 rats.. I'd be like screw it.. not doin that again.. too much work!
P.S. I shoot goonies when I get a chance I think they are a scurge.. lol.. at the same time.. I love them for what they have done. We get the same thing in 0.0 you know.. giant roving goonie pvp bands.. with sheer overwhelming force in numbers.. it can make pvp a little frustrating at times. But... you don't see us whining on the forums about goonies poppin our ships. You do see constructive ideas popping up to discouraging blobbing however. One of these things I think that would help is remove local chat function in 0.0 and low sec.. and replace this with much improved long range and short range scanning ability on our ships. Replace the lousy Directional readout we have now.. to something 3D tactical. Long range scanners would have really crappy resolution but might even have system overlap. So you industrialists would see the goonies coming...
But easy fix.. just raise sec hit for high sec criminal acts... would make it more troublesome to use these tactics.
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Jacob Mei
Slacker Industries Limited
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Posted - 2008.03.20 15:14:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon Edited by: Ellaine TashMurkon on 20/03/2008 14:43:08 No. You make 20 million with 120 mouse clicks and 1 hour of playing instead of 13 million with 10 mouse clicks and 5 minutes of playing :) Thats 12 times lower efficiency when mining not-afk :)
Oh well, all I know is that with my tactic I know when the swarm is coming, dont lose my 200 million investment, make more money an hour then the AFK player and still enjoy my way of play (Yes, I am one of the few who enjoy the logistics of mining and construction). Adapt or Die.
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.20 15:54:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jacob Mei high sec, your suddenly making about 20 million an hour.
As compared to a minimum of 20M but a maximum of 50M an hour with L4 missions (the later if you have luck finding some Arbies or good salvage), not counting LPs.
Your point is perfectly valid, but having mined in Empire in a Hulk and having done L4 missions for a very decent agent, I don't see the point in mining anymore except when mining while reading a book - which is out, thanks to the goons. --
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Space Hog
NEW DAWN CO INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.03.20 15:59:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jason Travers Edited by: Jason Travers on 20/03/2008 04:16:58 Well Zhen Zhu, you are the epitome of the enmity of the internet. In the real world someone like you that acted as you do I would gladly pound into the ground. But seeing how you can sit in your parentÆs basement eating hot pockets and popping zits while you act out what you apparently think a man is. You would probably run away with your tail tucked away as a typical PVPer would. So yes CCP would feel the impact and it would very likely cause the game to collapse and shut down. And to be frank I would go to their last fanfare just to laugh at the nuggets like you dressed up as their toon crying because their world died. At that time I would remind you that is was due to closed minded people like yourself that thought the world rotated around them are the true cause of the collapse.
This isnÆt meant to be a personal attack on you personally just your current train of thought.
What I was talking about is that because CCP doesnÆt pay any attention to the highsec community and allows this to go on when it is technically within the mechanics, when another game comes out they will lose people. Currently CCP will not even look at the situation and try to come up with a solution. Adding more meat to a hulk or fixing the insurance would bring balance. Currently CCP has a track record of only balancing for PVP and nothing to balance the highsecers.
Wow, you put some thought into that personal attack. How old are you anyway. You know I got some extra bottles of baby powder from my sons nursery that I can powder your hiny if you would like.... Or perhaps you can not hide behind your alt. Post with your main. Disclaiming it as not a 'personal attack' does not change it from actually being a personal attack. You would have done better just to post the second half of your post only.
Originally by: Jason Travers No IÆm not actually waiting on the demise of EVE. But you obviously didnÆt read my original post very well before you jumped me about it. Telling me to go play WoW or what ever. I myself, actually like EVE but, there is some major balancing issues that CCP needs to address. If you actually read my post as to why the highsec (carebear) community never gets any attention paid to them and why the PVP community does. You would actually understand the post its self.
I don't recall Zhen Zhu actually jumping you.
On to the balancing issue. I think that Concord responds rather quickly for most cases to render justic. Police in real life don't instantly go POOF and there they are.
I think a more pratical balancing of the losses here could be solved with a couple of adjustments.
1) Balance the insurance payouts to market fair averages. If a hulk is selling for 110 mill then insurance payout should be close to that if you purchase the plat. insurance. This cascades into many areas. I got a freighter for example that I simply don't bother insuring. No sense in dropping hundreds of millions to not get the isk back that it would cost to rebuy the ship. Same thing goes for some of the other capital ships I have.
2) Balance the sec status hit. The higher the sec status the higher the hit to ones sec status if they commit a criminal act. That might balance things rather well there. It would not take long and these gankers would have to go grind the ratting to balance their recent empire ganking.
3) I have a hulk myself even though yes I also pvp. (I know its a sin for a PVP pilot to mine too, sorry gota help once in a while). And yes I do some mining in high sec. Would suck to get ganked in my hulk or mack. I would say thicken the skin on those things. And give em that +1 bonus on the warp core. Would make you have to hit em with two points to make it stick. And for that matter give the pilot better chance of getting out as concord does respond and start poping the criminals.
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WGAnubis Marrith
The Devil's Advocates
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Posted - 2008.03.20 16:21:00 -
[35]
Edited by: WGAnubis Marrith on 20/03/2008 16:21:55 null.
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Thenoran
The People's Liberation Army
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Posted - 2008.03.20 18:55:00 -
[36]
The only problem is that you can insure a ship you are going to do a suicide attack with, certain ships can be bought for much less then what you can insure them for and that way you barely lose any cash.
An example would be my own Rokh, the server price is 165mil but its on the market for 120 and a good insurance is about 40-45 mil, so if you lose the ship, you will have lost little to no ISK from that. ------------------------
Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh |
Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:40:00 -
[37]
I have no sympathy for people who AFK mine. I used to do it myself, and its boring as hell. Heck, its even more boring than mining while paying attention because I could be doing more fun things with my computer than mining. If anything, ganking of miners isnt the problem, its the AFK miners. Make mining more interactive, make mining in groups more advantageous, make mining more of a career than a grind. Safety in numbers: if one Hulk gets popped by a ganker, atleast as a group you wont all die (safety in numbers: sounds like goonswarm?). Also, if you are going to invest 100+ mil in a ship for mining, do something to protect it for goodness sakes! Stick on a few shield extenders, some hardeners, damage control, whatever! Mining shouldn't be a solo activity anyway for serious miners, thats why we have issues with macros. Get a command ship pilot to run interference... useful bonuses, and you will have increased output as well. The swarm never attacks groups, only solo miners.
Perhaps the worst that should be done is loss of insurance payouts to destruction by concord, or atleast advanced payouts (so there should be some financial loss). As a whole, however, Im FOR ganking in empire. Its a useful game mechanic. Where it becomes a problem is with throwaway alts. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2008.03.20 21:42:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 20/03/2008 21:42:59
------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Zhen Zhu
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:10:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Zhen Zhu on 20/03/2008 22:12:49
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker I have no sympathy for people who AFK mine. I used to do it myself, and its boring as hell. Heck, its even more boring than mining while paying attention because I could be doing more fun things with my computer than mining. If anything, ganking of miners isnt the problem, its the AFK miners. Make mining more interactive, make mining in groups more advantageous, make mining more of a career than a grind. Safety in numbers: if one Hulk gets popped by a ganker, atleast as a group you wont all die (safety in numbers: sounds like goonswarm?). Also, if you are going to invest 100+ mil in a ship for mining, do something to protect it for goodness sakes! Stick on a few shield extenders, some hardeners, damage control, whatever! Mining shouldn't be a solo activity anyway for serious miners, thats why we have issues with macros. Get a command ship pilot to run interference... useful bonuses, and you will have increased output as well. The swarm never attacks groups, only solo miners.
Perhaps the worst that should be done is loss of insurance payouts to destruction by concord, or atleast advanced payouts (so there should be some financial loss). As a whole, however, Im FOR ganking in empire. Its a useful game mechanic. Where it becomes a problem is with throwaway alts.
Well Said!
I agree... I have 0 sympathy for AFK miners in high sec whining about loosing Hulks in high sec if others are working within the game mechanics to kill them. Not sure why any of us are bothering replying to such a ridiculous post in the first place. Its just a handful of pathetic carebears upset because they can't see past their own ignorance and inability to change what they are doing.
If effect (a) results in cause(b)... stop doing (a)
If going AFK in your juicy Hulk in High Sec (a) results in loss of Hulk (b)... stop doing (a).
I hope that was pretty straightforward enough for ya.
Really... don't AFK ever in EvE especially if your putting an expensive ship out on the line.. EvE is not a game meant to play AFK. You lost your ship.. but it could have been easily avoided if you had been paying attention to what was going on.. but because you refuse to see the many solutions biting you on the face.. you die!!!
If you donÆt see this.. you will always be a victimà. you cannot adapt.. because you refuse tooà sad really.
Get over it. Stop whining. Be done with this thread. ItÆs pointless.
Adapt..or DIE!
P.s. If any goonies are out there reading this post... please kill another one of these Hulks for me in High Sec...
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Nekopyat
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.03.20 22:37:00 -
[40]
mmm.. rambly undirrected about to leave work so not thinking quickly or clearly post...
Originally by: Zhen Zhu
Adapt..or DIE!
While I am not accusing you of doing this (I actually think you have made some very constructive suggestions in this thread), as a phraze I'm a little tired of 'adapt or die' since it feels like it is generally used by a group CCP focuses on against a group that they don't.
There is a real feeling of asymetry in how balance is handled in the game and when balance needs to be struck between PvP and other groups, the PvP needs are taken seriously while the other groups are simply told to 'adapt'. Now, this isn't nearly as universal as some of the whiniest people make it seem (just think of warp to zero as an example of the non PvP people getting a huge nod in their direction).
I can just imagine what kind of outcry pirates would give if, say, some of the counter-gank modules were ever implemented (such as a counter to webs, or a +2 WC module to counter the +2 Scram module, effective flack cannons, qships, etc etc). For that matter, imagine if CCP did change the insurance system in such a way that it effected gankbears,... it is a little harder to picture 'adapt or die' being said with a strait face nearly as much.
Though yeah, I'm kinda hoping goonswarm keeps up the hulk blasting myself ^_^ it is killing my buisness but it is just too interesting to watch it ripple through the economy. plus, after invention, there are just way too many hulks around anyway. EvE has a constantly up-spiraling economy.. and since the devs do not seem to want to introduce catastropic isk sinks, the goons are the next best thing.
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Zhen Zhu
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Posted - 2008.03.20 23:05:00 -
[41]
A very balanced and sage response I must say...kudos.. I was anticipating some flaming after my most recent evil sounding post.. but you handled that one nicely.. yep.. don't stop goonies from being goonies. But.. to be fair as Space Hog said.
"1) Balance the insurance payouts to market fair averages. If a hulk is selling for 110 mill then insurance payout should be close to that if you purchase the plat. insurance. This cascades into many areas. I got a freighter for example that I simply don't bother insuring. No sense in dropping hundreds of millions to not get the isk back that it would cost to rebuy the ship. Same thing goes for some of the other capital ships I have.
2) Balance the sec status hit. The higher the sec status the higher the hit to ones sec status if they commit a criminal act. That might balance things rather well there. It would not take long and these gankers would have to go grind the ratting to balance their recent empire ganking."
These two things get fixed... it should reduce.. not eleminate goonies ganking Hulks and the like.. more than anything number 2... as when you have low enough security status.. you simply can't even enter said High Sec.. then you got to grind and I do mean GRIINNNND to get that status back up... would certainly reduce the frequency one player could participate in these acts..
I think all involved would agree this is pretty straight forward and fair. Am I right? or am I wrong?
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Berrik Radhok
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Posted - 2008.03.21 03:22:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Nekopyat
There is a real feeling of asymetry in how balance is handled in the game and when balance needs to be struck between PvP and other groups, the PvP needs are taken seriously while the other groups are simply told to 'adapt'.
That's because this is a PvP game.
Quote:
[ 2006.08.25 22:30:46 ] fire 59 > mate, im 230 and 6 ft 3, half caste and train every day
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Jimmie Zissou
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.21 05:40:00 -
[43]
I admit insurance payouts should not go to suicide ganker. That being said try placing a RP spin on this.
Goons have created game content. This sucks for the ones they hunt down and kill but where is the miner response. All I am seeing are the masses running to the forums demanding CCP stop this action. Why have the mining corps not war dec them or hired merc to keep them busy for a while? Where is the in game response to their actions people!!
Why has CCP not done anything about this -- Because they want you, the victims of such actions to use the same game mechanic the goons are using to counter their efforts.
It is all about the RP!!
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Nekopyat
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.03.21 05:40:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Berrik Radhok That's because this is a PvP game.
"was" a PvP game. The dev's personal background a pkillers has long since been eclipsed by the business needs of developing a money-making sandbox game.
Something like, what, 80% of the payed accounts live in hi-sec? Huge numbers of players do things other then PvP because CCP decided to give the game the flexibility to allow many different roles and play styles. They would not have bothered to put in the massive amount of development present in the economic system if EvE was truely a 'PvP game. Yes such games generally need some type of economic throttle, but you can make it much simpler if no one cares.
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Zhen Zhu
NEW DAWN CO INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.03.21 05:47:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jimmie Zissou I admit insurance payouts should not go to suicide ganker. That being said try placing a RP spin on this.
Goons have created game content. This sucks for the ones they hunt down and kill but where is the miner response. All I am seeing are the masses running to the forums demanding CCP stop this action. Why have the mining corps not war dec them or hired merc to keep them busy for a while? Where is the in game response to their actions people!!
Why has CCP not done anything about this -- Because they want you, the victims of such actions to use the same game mechanic the goons are using to counter their efforts.
It is all about the RP!!
Because.. they are incapable of fending for themselves.. they have a victim mentality and need big brother CCP to come fix their problems... it would be horrible if they had to gasp! fight back! OMG!
Work within game mechanics to defend themselves? NEVER!
They want to AFK mine in their Hulks in empire..
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quickshot89
Imperators
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Posted - 2008.03.21 10:44:00 -
[46]
Zen, can i ask you this, how do you know a hulk is properly AFK mining? with a cycle on a tech 1 strip being 3 mins at a time, what are you suppost to do in a mining barge? of course its going to be slightly afk, but thats the role of miners, they sit and mine, move ore into cans, haul the cans,
yes, id love to see the macros gone, but maybe you should look at the hulk 1st, macro miners should be pretty easy to spot over a normal player who has gone to the loo or something while a cycle completes Imperators, we seek glory and honour
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Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar The Unseen Company
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Posted - 2008.03.21 10:51:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Nekopyat They would not have bothered to put in the massive amount of development present in the economic system if EvE was truely a 'PvP game.
Eve economy is a pvp game, price wars bring more damage to your competitors profits then average pvp command ship poilot looses in ships and fits :)
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Zhen Zhu
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Posted - 2008.03.21 15:46:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Zhen Zhu on 21/03/2008 15:50:43
Originally by: quickshot89 Zen, can i ask you this, how do you know a hulk is properly AFK mining? with a cycle on a tech 1 strip being 3 mins at a time, what are you suppost to do in a mining barge? of course its going to be slightly afk, but thats the role of miners, they sit and mine, move ore into cans, haul the cans,
I guess I am looking at it from the concept of 0.0. You see we live in constant alert mode.. you cannot survive unless you are watching local your scanners and information networks constantly. If you are ratting (or mining) you stay aligned towards safe warp points almost instinctively if your in a big ship (such as a Hulk) I actually owned a Hulk on a industrialist alt at one time so I know how slow they turn.. tried it a few times and got terribly bored with it. I found much faster ways to make money than mining frankly.. so I never mined again.. but thats another story.. If you see a large jump in local of hostiles you leave everything you are doing and warp to a safe place and usually cloak or dock or move between safespots so you cannot be probed.
If you take the right precautions its almost impossible to get ganked. Flying smart will reduce your mortality rate drasticly.There was times I have been regularly pvp'ing making kills and living in 0.0 for months without a single ship loss.
So I guess my argument is they just need to pay attention.. if they know its a problem .... recognize its a problem.. they need to be alert for it. That and/or do something about it.
But in any case..
Lets just do the following
1) Raise sec hit dramaticly for criminal acts in High Sec (so you can still be suicide ganked but only once or twice by the parties involved before they have to go back to 0.0 or low sec and grinnnnd ratting or missions) I know from experience.. that after a long pirating run.. I gotta spend months in 0.0 to raise my sec status enough to be able to shop in high sec with my main.
2) Refuse insurance payouts for criminal acts in High sec to the attacker
3) Raise insurance payouts to reasonable amounts for Tech II ships
4) Me and a corp mate were talking about this one.. but its probably not fair for accidental criminal acts.. fine attackers a fee proportional to the victims loss for criminal acts in High Sec.. (not low sec or 0.0)
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Dreximus
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Posted - 2008.03.21 17:13:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Zhen Zhu Edited by: Zhen Zhu on 21/03/2008 15:50:43 Lets just do the following
1) Raise sec hit dramaticly for criminal acts in High Sec (so you can still be suicide ganked but only once or twice by the parties involved before they have to go back to 0.0 or low sec and grinnnnd ratting or missions) I know from experience.. that after a long pirating run.. I gotta spend months in 0.0 to raise my sec status enough to be able to shop in high sec with my main.
2) Refuse insurance payouts for criminal acts in High sec to the attacker
3) Raise insurance payouts to reasonable amounts for Tech II ships
4) Me and a corp mate were talking about this one.. but its probably not fair for accidental criminal acts.. fine attackers a fee proportional to the victims loss for criminal acts in High Sec.. (not low sec or 0.0)
/doublesigned
On #4 actually the 'accidental' acts are not likely to cause enough damage to be recompensed. Accidentally shooting at a hulk, GSC, etc, unless you are gank fit, isn't going to pop it, and therefore shouldn't cause a loss. I suppose there's accidentally popping a frig or something...but if you're flying something that can pop someone before you get concordokken...probably not a bother.
I know everyone says stay on top of your scanners, local, etc...but while that may be fun for some, it transforms the game into a lot of work for others. As it is a sandbox game and supports more than one playstyle, it SHOULD have rules in place to protect, to a certain degree, all of those playstyles. While everyone likes to tout "pvp game" blah blah blah, I say go read the FAQ's, read the sticky forum info for Starbases/Industry, etc...there are numerous mentions of non-pvp activities and solo play viability...CCP has a marketing quandry here where everyone wants to say CCP wants it a harsh universe, but the advertising isn't matching up with that. I think it's the usual overly vocal minority are blowing something up that shouldn't be. Anyway. Any lawyers wanna help out with this? :) Still, playing the game for fun, and having to work while doing something that already resembles work to some is just not functional. It is fun to mine with a corp, chat with your corpmates etc...but when you're trying to watch chat, security, local, asteroids, scanners, etc....no fun in that. It's why I haven't been to 0.0 since my first visit ended 30 seconds into arrival. I want to relax and play, not play and take meds to calm the nerves. Occasional pvp is great. Pvp isn't done in a hulk.
So I'm all for... - Buffing Exhumers - fixing T2 ship insurance payouts - Removing insurance payouts for the aggressor if they are destroyed by concord and their aggressive act destroyed another ship (accident padding built in!) - Aggressor's total insurance payout to pay towards 75% of market value of victim's ship if victim is destroyed. This should be calculated such that the victim will only get 75% of their ship value for their ship, not 75% of it's value per suicide ganker involved. - Larger Security AND Empire standing hit for the aggressors. Empires shouldn't take kindly to their citizens being killed. - Institute a hard timer like UO has (Had?) where the more ganks you rack up, the longer it will be before you can start getting security status back from ratting.
With all the above rules, I would still suicide people, but it would be a calculated measure either taken for revenge or other tactical reason. Not because I wanted to force others to my gameplay style since it costs me nearly nothing and ruins hours of their game time.
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quickshot89
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Posted - 2008.03.21 18:06:00 -
[50]
so what barges dont the goons kill? im tempted to train my barge skills up but not much point if im gonna get ganked just for getting more minerals for making ammo etc Imperators, we seek glory and honour
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Dreximus
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.21 18:51:00 -
[51]
Originally by: quickshot89 so what barges dont the goons kill? im tempted to train my barge skills up but not much point if im gonna get ganked just for getting more minerals for making ammo etc
It was just Exhumers - Mackinaws and Hulks. However it looks like they're moving down to Covetors and Retrievers now. Fly a battleship or a mining cruiser I think...harder for them to gank and nearly fully insurable.
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quickshot89
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Posted - 2008.03.21 21:12:00 -
[52]
now whats the point in ganking a retriever? its not as if it can mine fast or alot, a decent osprey mines just less than it can with decent skills
seems like the goons just hate barges Imperators, we seek glory and honour
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Kitoba
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Posted - 2008.03.21 21:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: quickshot89 seems like the goons just hate barges
I don't think so. The reason why you don't see any reason is that they don't care about being reasonable. Or are deliberately being unreasonable, it's hard to see or draw a line there.
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Stakhanov
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Posted - 2008.03.21 21:55:00 -
[54]
Mining cruisers drop miner IIs which are worthless , mining barges drop strip miners which can be sold for a few millions , that's why.
Very inefficient grief wise , they should move to faction frigs - likely to drop shiny stuff and dear to their owners. The real thing (faction BS ganks) is done by Tri as it takes better skills and organization. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu edit: Wow, that was unpleasant, I felt pity for someone. Won't happen again.
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Karanth
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.21 22:30:00 -
[55]
Faction ships are not as fun as Exhumers and Barges.
Also, Minmatar ice fields are cool, visit them and mine away.
Remember, you can also pay your local Jihadswarm representatives to not cleanse your AFK-mining sins in a blaze of CONCORD-fueled glory.
"Current Earth-Destruction Status" |
Dreximus
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Posted - 2008.03.21 22:55:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Stakhanov Mining cruisers drop miner IIs which are worthless , mining barges drop strip miners which can be sold for a few millions , that's why.
Very inefficient grief wise , they should move to faction frigs - likely to drop shiny stuff and dear to their owners. The real thing (faction BS ganks) is done by Tri as it takes better skills and organization.
Partially this, with the strip miner value and such.
From what I have gleaned from other threads with actual goonie posts, profit isn't the big motivation here. It's to have chuckles at other's misfortune and either A) force the 'carebears' or anyone old enough to fly a barge/exhumer into low/nullsec, or to B) force them into one empire's space. They want to bully the majority of EVE players who do not (usually by choice) live nullsec life into having to (the nullsec, crazy watching scanners/local/gatecamps/safespots stuff). There's a number of other theories out there, but one of the most agreed on is that they are "having fun" while ruining everyone else's. And there's not much you can do about it; they don't care about wardecs and are geared to the teeth against your average baby corp that's growing in empire, they make their own stuff so you can't hit their logistics easily. And they're cutting down the sweatshop half-macro afk isk farmer/sellers, which is the only point in their whole campaign I congratulate them on.
I still don't condone the wholesale slaughter of high-sec dwellers with little/no risks. (They live in nullsec, having to go back there to rat sec status back up is hardly a risk or punishment).
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Opertone
Rulers Of Mankind Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.23 20:52:00 -
[57]
they can strike you but you can't strike them back... this is the real problem, concord protects the criminals too (which is lame)
CONCORD should not defend the pirates (real big security hit or simply high sec entrance denial for kills, just if they make throw away alts) Insuarance should not be paid out to the victims of CONCORD
insurance thing is not working right in EVE - the periods are too long and the payouts are made 100% of the time... more fraudulent insurance, in real world an insurance company doesn't have an unlimited FUND to cover all payout premiums. In EVE insurance contract rarely matures to the point where you recive no premium and the EVE insurance commission takes the profit. EVE insurance company takes the money out of the AIR, which lead to excessive insurance manipulation.
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Vemille Kechov
OrdoDraconis Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2008.03.23 23:24:00 -
[58]
An issue that seems to be brought up a lot is that industrialists don't have any means to fight back; there are a few fixes for this.
1) Make barges a bit tougher. While I generally don't feel much for miners (and I have no sympathy for someone who isn't at the keyboard), Hulks are paper-thin for the price. At least give some grid, CPU, and a few midslots to throw on some extenders for an HP buffer.
2) The best way for industrialists to fight back would be through their specialty, industry. Considering that EVE supports capitalism and Machiavellianism in almost every way, it seems quite absurd that it doesn't support them through the markets. Give the ability to buy and sell based on standings - allow for players to form cartels, place embargoes, and all the other things that would make EVE's economy into the cold, harsh world that its combat is. The true irony is that the Goons are going right back the stations and buying ships made by the same people they are ganking. What you see, is your death... OrdoDraconis. |
Kitoba
Legion of Dynamic Discord
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Posted - 2008.03.23 23:53:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Vemille Kechov The true irony is that the Goons are going right back the stations and buying ships made by the same people they are ganking.
How wonderfully true. Industrialists, every time you want to make some calculations to justify your whines, substract your margin from your losses.
On top of that, reading about a monopoly getting sscd would make my day, if not even week or month.
To get this back to the topic, that being "Goon tactics": Why don't you just put everyone buying trit, titans or whatever for 0.01 isk on your KOS list?
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Vemille Kechov
OrdoDraconis
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Posted - 2008.03.24 00:59:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kitoba
To get this back to the topic, that being "Goon tactics": Why don't you just put everyone buying trit, titans or whatever for 0.01 isk on your KOS list?
The problem is, there's no way to see who those people are; if that were the case, cartels and whatnot would have formed already. If people could see who all the orders belong to, and filter them based on standings, EVE's economy would be completely different. CCP could even implement a different type of 'alliance,' one based around the economy. There would be market standings, and both corporations and alliances could join. It would at least give CCP's economist a bit more to do. What you see, is your death... OrdoDraconis. |
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