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Ayanami Nova
NEW DAWN CO INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:36:00 -
[91]
The main problem with the falcon as i see it is that it makes the rook utterly redundant.
Neither ship is big on DPS and since they operate at range then there is no advantage to choosing a rook. Both ships have equal ECM bonus so there is no advantage to flying the rook. Both ships are equally slow and paper thin. The falcon can cloak, warp cloaked, get into a tactical position without advertising its presence, align and then (when the time is right) uncloak and ECM around 4 targets with great effiency. The rook has the same ecm ability but sends a constant message to enemies that "i am here, i have ECM, make me primary!"
There is zero reason to choose a rook over a falcon, I fly a falcon and it is too powerful. reduce its range or reduce its ECM bonus to 10% or 15%. The rook should be better at its specialised ECM role.
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:37:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel
This however is offset by the fact it's got no self defence except for chance based ewar
Yeah, because its not safe enough to sit at 150km distance? Tbh Id have no problems in nerfing falcons range but giving it more defense inline with other recons. Thats what youre driving at, isnt it? That its ok that we could nerf ecm down to the state of the other ew forms just as long as falcon tanks as good as they do (wich is not much fyi).
Sure Im up for this change but I know all the falcon pilots are not because this excuse is a lie. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:38:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Ayanami Nova
There is zero reason to choose a rook over a falcon, I fly a falcon and it is too powerful. reduce its range or reduce its ECM bonus to 10% or 15%. The rook should be better at its specialised ECM role.
This is a universal problem for all recons (except pilgrim vs curse), the cloaking ones simply are better. Cloaking recons need a serious nerf and/or combat recons need a serious dps buff. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Cerui Tarshiel
Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:44:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel
This however is offset by the fact it's got no self defence except for chance based ewar
Yeah, because its not safe enough to sit at 150km distance? Tbh Id have no problems in nerfing falcons range but giving it more defense inline with other recons. Thats what youre driving at, isnt it? That its ok that we could nerf ecm down to the state of the other ew forms just as long as falcon tanks as good as they do (wich is not much fyi).
Sure Im up for this change but I know all the falcon pilots are not because this excuse is a lie.
How is it a lie? you can't nano the thing up (like the rapier and to the lesser degree the arazu), adding a lse reduces the number of jammers, nor can you plate it like the pilgrim without sacrificing signal distortion amplifier. As for buffin it, short of adding dronebay (which I don't see happening) it would do nothing really. It's fine as it is imo, paperthin but powerful.
As for sitting at 150 km being safe? not really, tri and several other laugh at 150km being safe for falcons (even just having a inty buzzing around you, however easy they are to jam is unsettling). Besides you are away from the rest of the gang so if things so downhill (and they do so very very fast if things go wrong) they won't have chance to bail you out.
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Cerui Tarshiel
Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:48:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Cerui Tarshiel on 24/03/2008 14:48:15
Originally by: Ayanami Nova The main problem with the falcon as i see it is that it makes the rook utterly redundant.
Neither ship is big on DPS and since they operate at range then there is no advantage to choosing a rook. Both ships have equal ECM bonus so there is no advantage to flying the rook. Both ships are equally slow and paper thin. The falcon can cloak, warp cloaked, get into a tactical position without advertising its presence, align and then (when the time is right) uncloak and ECM around 4 targets with great effiency. The rook has the same ecm ability but sends a constant message to enemies that "i am here, i have ECM, make me primary!"
There is zero reason to choose a rook over a falcon, I fly a falcon and it is too powerful. reduce its range or reduce its ECM bonus to 10% or 15%. The rook should be better at its specialised ECM role.
I actually agree that there's no reason to choose the rook over the falcon (said so myself when the change was announced) and I agree with reducing the falcons jam strength to 15% (or 12,5% to make the whine brigade happy). Perhaps buff the rook by adding a medslot and changing it's rof bonus to a good precision bonus/missile explosion velocity bonus or something of that sort to give it a better chance against tacklers (just throwing out ideas, haven't done any calculations)
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Brodde Dim
Unseen University Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:52:00 -
[96]
I thought ECM was too powerfull before the boost :P
But imho the Falcon is the only defensive fleet support ship that works atm. It is not too strong, all the others are too weak. No other ship can support their fleet (and not add to the dps) without being killed in the first seconds of battle.
What we need now is something to defend against the over use of long range ECM.
An easy counter would be to boost the gallente recons. Give them an effective range atleast on par with the falcon. And maybe make them harder to jam. Let them force the falcons come closer so you can kill them.
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 14:53:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 14:53:35
Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel
As for sitting at 150 km being safe? not really, tri and several other laugh at 150km being safe for falcons (even just having a inty buzzing around you, however easy they are to jam is unsettling). Besides you are away from the rest of the gang so if things so downhill (and they do so very very fast if things go wrong) they won't have chance to bail you out.
Not everyone is in a 50-150 man fleet with snipers reaching out to those ranges. There is something called small gang and solo pvp. Something a few of us like to defend and keep alive. No one has any issues with falcons being effective in larger fleet warfare. They are fine there because both sides will have em. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Cerui Tarshiel
Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.24 15:02:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Cerui Tarshiel on 24/03/2008 15:03:56 Edited by: Cerui Tarshiel on 24/03/2008 15:03:39
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 14:53:35
Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel
As for sitting at 150 km being safe? not really, tri and several other laugh at 150km being safe for falcons (even just having a inty buzzing around you, however easy they are to jam is unsettling). Besides you are away from the rest of the gang so if things so downhill (and they do so very very fast if things go wrong) they won't have chance to bail you out.
Not everyone is in a 50-150 man fleet with snipers reaching out to those ranges. There is something called small gang and solo pvp. Something a few of us like to defend and keep alive. No one has any issues with falcons being effective in larger fleet warfare. They are fine there because both sides will have em.
Did I ever say snipers? if I meant snipers I wouldn't have mentioned tri because most alliances that actively pvp can field at least some kindof a sniper bs fleet. And the only largish engagement I've actually been in was 40 of us vs 50 tri with us having the snipers+support and the tri gang being nanoed (t'was great fun btw).
What I meant that inties and good number of nanohacs have no problem getting out to you in very short amount of time and either force you off or kill you.
As for solo *shrug* been on the recciving end of ecm myself while soloing and it's just something you have to deal with while flying solo.
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 15:27:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel
Did I ever say snipers? if I meant snipers I wouldn't have mentioned tri because most alliances that actively pvp can field at least some kindof a sniper bs fleet. And the only largish engagement I've actually been in was 40 of us vs 50 tri with us having the snipers+support and the tri gang being nanoed (t'was great fun btw).
What I meant that inties and good number of nanohacs have no problem getting out to you in very short amount of time and either force you off or kill you.
As for solo *shrug* been on the recciving end of ecm myself while soloing and it's just something you have to deal with while flying solo.
But youre still talking about big fleets. What about the small gang warfare. Like a BC + a BS + an inty + a cruiser + a hac kinda thing? Where is the love? Nerf the lameness. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Trevor Warps
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.24 15:45:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Trevor Warps on 24/03/2008 15:47:18 To all the fanboys preaching over the ECM nerf == Damp nerf
Thats a joke.
This is what happened :
-ECM got nerfed, some ECM ships got boosted, mods been introduced to boost ecm strenght ... Result, ECM as good or stronger than before on ECM boats.
-Damps got nerfed. Period.
See ?
Edit : 2 rigs can help ECM, 1 can help damps.
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Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden
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Posted - 2008.03.24 15:51:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 24/03/2008 15:52:27 I guess my biggest peave about the falcon is how much easier it can get away then the other recons(if its operating the way a proper falcon pilot would, at 150km+), cause I have a feeling this has a lot to do with why the others are used less. I remember loving the curse because nanoe'd it was very effective and could almost always escape, now not so much. The lachesis/arazu, well, they never have really had the oppurtunity. The huginn and rapier did and still do have the ability to run, but likewise you see them a lot. The falcon has enormous range, and if anything ventures out to go get it, it will more than likely be able to get away by jamming the offender.
Arazu/lachesis can't do that, curse/pilgrim can't do that, huginn/rapier have a chance, but if the ceptor manages to get to close and its gonna be very hard pressed to get away before it gets raped cause it can't sit away from the fight and still be effective(though a good huginn/rapier pilot can clear the field of ceptors fairly quickly, heavy tackler and they're screwed). Falcon's have absolutely no trouble jamming ceptors, the only ships remotely capable of getting to them in a reasonable manner, so they can very easily run off and come back. People like to fly ships they aren't going to lose, I know more than likely I'm gonna lose a gallente recon; amarr recon, eh what's the point? Minmatar recon are good but there's a high probability you're gonna lose it; caldari recon, oh what the hell, I'd be invulnerable.
This I think is the strongest point of imbalance, if you gave all the other ships this free ticket to operate, you might see them more, regardless of the effect of their ewar. Yes, there are ways to kill the falcon out at range, I've double teamed one in a claw with a scorp before, but what does it take to kill a lachesis? All but that one ship that's damped to hell just target and fire, and it crumbles. If it spreads its damps it isn't doing ****. And I can't remember the last time I've seen a curse/pilgrim anyways, so meh.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:16:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/03/2008 16:21:33
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
This is a universal problem for all recons (except pilgrim vs curse), the cloaking ones simply are better. Cloaking recons need a serious nerf and/or combat recons need a serious dps buff.
Buff the combat recons (particularly the actual combat capable ones), and what's the point of HACs?
I mean, you've already got more reasons to be scared of a Huggin then a Vagabond, more worried about the Curse then the Zealot/Sacriledge. Rooks are just scary because of their jamming power.
Lachersis is a bit meh, but that's more due to the sorry state of damps, and it's got a much better chance at killing a lot of ships compared to a, for instance, Diemost.
It's a sad state of affairs that real 'solo' PvP-ers have falcon alts
And, yes, the cloaking recons are simply better then the non-cloaking recons for all concieveable situations. Mainly because (except the Pilgrim) inherit range bonuses from the combat varieties.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:32:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
It's a sad state of affairs that real 'solo' PvP-ers have falcon alts
And, yes, the cloaking recons are simply better then the non-cloaking recons for all concieveable situations. Mainly because (except the Pilgrim) inherit range bonuses from the combat varieties.
Hope youre not implying that Im using a falcon in my movies, Im not. (Still got months to go for a falcon alt sadly)
I agree that combat recons cant get a huge boost because they would become hacs. I think all combat recons are where they should be but there needs to be something done to all the cloaking force recons. They all need a nerf. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:34:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Cerui Tarshiel
This however is offset by the fact it's got no self defence except for chance based ewar
Yeah, because its not safe enough to sit at 150km distance?
If you don't play this game well enough to deal with a range advantage then thats your problem, not the ships. ECM is easily dealt with if you know how. It's been like that since day 1 in 2003. Problem is theres a very fine line between being pointless and being overpowered with ECM.
If they nerf it again you better bloody well believe that the Rook/Falcons combat application should be increased inline with the other 3 races. --------------- you all smell! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:38:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Ayanami Nova
There is zero reason to choose a rook over a falcon, I fly a falcon and it is too powerful. reduce its range or reduce its ECM bonus to 10% or 15%. The rook should be better at its specialised ECM role.
This is a universal problem for all recons (except pilgrim vs curse), the cloaking ones simply are better. Cloaking recons need a serious nerf and/or combat recons need a serious dps buff.
Also codswallop, Huginn is infinitely better in a close range fight, locks faster, tanks better and does a hell of alot more damage. Curse is a fantastic ship but we already know you've made your bias little mind up on that one don't we? Pilgrim needs a nos/neut range boost. --------------- you all smell! |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:39:00 -
[106]
Originally by: welsh wizard
If you don't play this game well enough to deal with a range advantage then thats your problem, not the ships. ECM is easily dealt with if you know how
Dont try the "you suck but Im not gonna tell you why" trick. No, ecm is not easily dealt with if you know how. Dont lie.
Originally by: welsh wizard
If they nerf it again you better bloody well believe that the Rook/Falcons combat application should be increased inline with the other 3 races
I see no problem with this. The problem is mostly for you when you realize that the combat application of the other recons is very poor and you'll pray to get your old 150km recon back.
-------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Corstaad
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:40:00 -
[107]
Every PvP game I've played there is the same whines. People get fussy if someone else can do something they can't or are not willing to do. Everyone should adapt to them and we're all stupid. When you get done with this thread and start a nano thread please list yourself as a carebear or forumwhhore.
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:43:00 -
[108]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Also codswallop, Huginn is infinitely better in a close range fight, locks faster, tanks better and does a hell of alot more damage
No its not, rapier is better overall and rapiers is what you see everywhere. People flying huginns are just the recon pilots that are bored and want to pewpew and do more dps just for the heck of it.
Originally by: welsh wizard
Curse is a fantastic ship but we already know you've made your bias little mind up on that one don't we?
Curses die to alot of ships. Its not even half as good as people claim. You nano it? No TDs? You die to injected zealots and harbingers. You dont nano it? You die to everything bigger then a cruiser. No curse aint good. It has limited uses in gangs. For solo both amarr hacs outperform it by large margins.
Originally by: welsh wizard
Pilgrim needs a nos/neut range boost.
It needs something, yes. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:45:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 16:44:58
Originally by: Corstaad Every PvP game I've played there is the same whines. People get fussy if someone else can do something they can't or are not willing to do. Everyone should adapt to them and we're all stupid. When you get done with this thread and start a nano thread please list yourself as a carebear or forumwhhore.
Youre claiming that ALL whines in ALL games are not valid? Cool, because with that logic there wouldnt be any game balance patches. Maybe some people on the forums would rather like an even playground for all choices in the game. Instead you seem to dispise those people and cheer for fotm chasers. I find that odd. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:45:00 -
[110]
Like I say you won't see reason so... --------------- you all smell! |
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Reto
The Last Resort
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:51:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Methem The falcon is designed to remove 2-3 dps ships from a fight.
no single cruiser should be able to do that. no other recon can do this by any means.
also recons should be by far more vulnerable to their own ew.
Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
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Malbolge
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.24 16:58:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Dexton Azeroth has no jammers, I suggest you move there. New eden is for people that use their head to solf problems.
Warlock fears.
AMG, nerf fear!!11
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 17:00:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Malbolge
Originally by: Dexton Azeroth has no jammers, I suggest you move there. New eden is for people that use their head to solf problems.
Warlock fears.
AMG, nerf fear!!11
And they nerfed fear. Day will come when theyll nerf ecm on falcons. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Merdaneth
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.03.24 17:47:00 -
[114]
PIE runs an all Amarr fleet. This is the Falcon we typically face:
6x White Noise ECM, 1x MWD 3x 'Hypnos' Signal Amp 2x ECM rigs
We find a Typhoon/Domi outside the station. One Geddon undocks and draws aggro. Hostile returns fire, two more Geddons and a Zealot undock too to help. Falcon uncloaks at 150km. Two of the Geddon's have 1x ECCM fitted (standard policy at that time) one has not. Zealot has (obviously) no ECCM, but MWD/web/scram.
Jam strength is between 14-15. Geddon base sensor strength is 17.
1x Geddon without ECCM: 85% chance of jam. Including relock time, that Geddon is effectively taken out of the fight by a single jammer. 2x Geddon with ECCM: 42% to jam with a single jammer, 68% with two, 82% with three 1x Zealot: 100% chance with a single jammer
Geddon's try to fight, and occasionally get a few shots in. Guns are largely disabled, remote repping assistance is large disabled. Zealot runs at the Falcon, but as soon as it comes close, one jammer takes it out permanently. Geddons are unable to concentrate enough fire to take down the Typhoon. Once one Geddon is down, its really all over. Jam odds only increase from now on.
Without ECCM, one Falcon like that pretty much disables a single ship of nearly any type for each of its jammer. Obviously, when a known hostile with Falcon alt is sitting outside the station, nobody engages anymore, unless a large blob can be formed. and preferably ECCM'ed battleships. Anything else is pretty much rendered ineffective, even with ECCM fitted.
ECM is not that bad, but racial ECM can be a rather annoying. Stacking your (limited) mids full of otherwise useless ECCM's for the off chance that a Falcon is out there waiting is also rather annoying. But if we don't, we're pretty much ****** once a single Falcon does turn up. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Drinian Cole
The Knights of the New Republic Giant Space Amoeba
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Posted - 2008.03.24 17:58:00 -
[115]
falcon is fine, its just more attractive than the others, and that's why its annoyingly common. The other recons should get a boost to compensate.
Perhaps the falcon could use more differentiation from the rook. That's the only change I would make. The Arazu is the only other ship who's function is comparable to the falcon, and I would say is the falcons direct competition in a gang. Dampeners are supposed to always damage targetting ability, ECM has a chance to completely remove it, or do nothing at all. That seems balanced to me. But the ships that do it are far from balanced.
Arazu was hit hard by damp nerf. The ability to throw a point from around 50km is cool, but severely watered down when you look at the fact that ceptors can now do it from 30km, and there's also dictors & HIC's to contend with. Damps don't have the range to take down snipers effectively, they have to get close to be able to do it. Once ships get under the new lock range you're screwed, and with speed being what it is, lots of ships can get under that range, through lots of methods. Lock time damps can buy you a few seconds, and that can help, especially if you're in a gang with ECM ships for example. But that isn't enough to balance a ship around.
An arazu has two tasks, both of which have a ship that can do them better. Ceptors are more survivable and cheaper, falcons are better at hindering targetting. An arazu can poorly substitute for, but not replace both. While they aren't useless, there seems to be little reason to have one. Ceptor pilots have never been hard to find, and falcon ones are increasingly easy.
As an arazu pilot I am now training for a Curse, cause I don't like chance based warfare, so I would rather stay away from the falcon. I would consider coming back to the arazu if one of these three were to happen: a) damp ranges were increased a lot. Then they would be able to effectively fight falcons and snipers, and have a more useful role. b) they were allowed to use both damp bonus' again; at current strength. Then they could protect themselves once things got under their damped lock range. c) the strength of their damps was increased.
I guess this ended up more about the arazu then the falcon. My apologies. Point is: Falcon=fine, arazu=subpar
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 17:59:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 17:59:38
Originally by: Merdaneth PIE runs an all Amarr fleet. This is the Falcon we typically face:
6x White Noise ECM, 1x MWD 3x 'Hypnos' Signal Amp 2x ECM rigs
We find a Typhoon/Domi outside the station. One Geddon undocks and draws aggro. Hostile returns fire, two more Geddons and a Zealot undock too to help. Falcon uncloaks at 150km. Two of the Geddon's have 1x ECCM fitted (standard policy at that time) one has not. Zealot has (obviously) no ECCM, but MWD/web/scram.
Jam strength is between 14-15. Geddon base sensor strength is 17.
1x Geddon without ECCM: 85% chance of jam. Including relock time, that Geddon is effectively taken out of the fight by a single jammer. 2x Geddon with ECCM: 42% to jam with a single jammer, 68% with two, 82% with three 1x Zealot: 100% chance with a single jammer
Geddon's try to fight, and occasionally get a few shots in. Guns are largely disabled, remote repping assistance is large disabled. Zealot runs at the Falcon, but as soon as it comes close, one jammer takes it out permanently. Geddons are unable to concentrate enough fire to take down the Typhoon. Once one Geddon is down, its really all over. Jam odds only increase from now on.
Without ECCM, one Falcon like that pretty much disables a single ship of nearly any type for each of its jammer. Obviously, when a known hostile with Falcon alt is sitting outside the station, nobody engages anymore, unless a large blob can be formed. and preferably ECCM'ed battleships. Anything else is pretty much rendered ineffective, even with ECCM fitted.
ECM is not that bad, but racial ECM can be a rather annoying. Stacking your (limited) mids full of otherwise useless ECCM's for the off chance that a Falcon is out there waiting is also rather annoying. But if we don't, we're pretty much ****** once a single Falcon does turn up.
This is the problem. Small gang warfare dies. But thats not what the falcon fanbois would like you to belive. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:17:00 -
[117]
All these falcon whines are interesting, since the falcon jams as well as the rook did before, yet that almost never attracted any whines until the RSD's were (over)nerfed.
So is this just a case of people whining about whatever ewar happens to be best, because they don't want to break out of their dps vs tank mold? Perhaps.
Quote: Its one aspect of eve where i cant bear, be nice if jamming was taken out completly.
See? People dont want to have to think about ewar. They just want to load up the biggest guns and then f1-f8.
Particularly awesome is the idea that a single ECCM should render you more or less nullify an entire dedicated jamming ship, with lows and mids and rig slots all dedicated to jamming.
I'd love to see that rationale extended to tanks. Please give me a way to nullify an armageddons dps with 2 med slots only.
If you don't have anything that can kill a falcon 150m away, your gang composition is pretty bad. Anything shooting fof missiles could be bad for it. Put a drone boat on it. Snipe it.
It's an expensive flying coffin that can be blown out of the sky the instant it fails a jam cycle.
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:18:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Ulstan All these falcon whines are interesting, since the falcon jams as well as the rook did before, yet that almost never attracted any whines until the RSD's were (over)nerfed.
Thats because rook doesnt have a cov ops cloak. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:20:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Ulstan on 24/03/2008 18:23:16 Also, ECM should be the best e war because caldari are the long range hi tech suck at solo shine in gang race.
However, we need *more* effective ewar, not less. The recent boost to tracking disruptors to affect falloff was good. Now we need to boost the gallente recons to make them slightly stronger.
Unlike a falcon or rook, the gallente recons can be powerful solo ships, so they shouldn't have quite the same 'I can possibly jam multiple people' power, but they need to be more potent than they are now.
Quote: no other recon can do this by any means.
No other recons are incapable of soloing, nor do they give up their tank in order to fit their e-war. Caldari ECM boats are a lot more focused on ECM than the other recons are. So, they should be better at it. They're the hands down worst for soloing, in consequence.
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Perfect Diamond
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:22:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 24/03/2008 18:23:01
Okay, this is my two cents
The Combat Recon Ship's discription says that it's suppose to be "anti-support support."
The Force Recon are suppose to be less effective version of the Combat Recon's but the Falcon is effectively better then the Rook.
All the races fit this role except for Caldari.
Nos and Neuts kill support ships cap, taking the support out of the game. Damps take long range support out by making them unable to target long distances.
Webs are good for taking out interceptors which support the main gang by holding down targets.
The Gallente can perma-jam ANYTHING without discretion.
At least the amarr recon ships tracking disruption only works on turrets, but of course it has about half the range of the Caldari Recons. Amarr is the tank OR gank race. Not the tank and gank race. |
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