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Galen Salkor
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:25:00 -
[121]
When I first joined the game 5 years ago, one of the things that always bugged was ECM. It sounded cool but was just so terrible in that if you happen upon a ship that you didn't have the right racial type for, you were screwed. Multispecs didn't really help a whole lot because of how many you'd need to fit for it to work and how they sucked your cap dry. Damps were way more effective because there was no racial type.
It wasn't until about 2 years ago that I got into ECM in a more dedicated fashion but the whole racial ECM jammer still bugs me. One thing going for the Falcon (I'm also in the camp that doesn't like that the Falcon matches the ECM bonus of the Rook, btw) that I like was that I could cloak from a fair distance and direct a battle while throwing in some ECM into it so I am not only sitting around giving orders.
But I had a crazy thought recently. Now this might be a stupid idea but why not just remove racial sensor strengths and so by that same token, removing racial jammers? Would anyone feel that totally unbalanced? The jam strength on multispecs is okay on an ECM specialized ship, though many they'd need some tweaking. I also always favored Caldari ECM only because of how it only takes one module to potentially remove someone from a fight and allowing a small gang to take on a bigger one. This is part of what ECM is. Btw, I also do what Merdaneth mentioned and totally kit out the Falcon with ecm enhancing mods for 14.6 strength. However, this all does give one race a ECM strong advange and makes other electronic warfare pointless. So at the same time, why not boost the sensor dampening effectiveness of the maulus & celestis hull and the weapon disruption of the crucifer & arbitrator hull? Not to mention throwing something onto the tracking disruptors to affect missiles (possibly increase RoF of missiles or its target navigation effectiveness or something) ? It'd be nice to have an increase for those other ship types to make their ECM a bit more powerful and in-line with Caldari so their targets would be severely hampered with one module (maybe somehow increasing sensor dampener's and tracking disruptor's stacking nerf through the scripts) although targets can potentially fight back by getting closer, using drones, etc. I'd like to see more propulsion jamming goodness on Minmatar ships but like all minmatar, we are used to getting the shaft.
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xxxak
O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:26:00 -
[122]
CRY CRY CRY... boo hoo ..
The Falcon/Rook is the *ONE* great PvP ship that Caldari get. Yes, it is very powerful, but so is the Vagabond, the Huginn, Ishtar, Sac, etc etc.
Get over it. Yes, ECM ships can cause problems, but frankly so can any HAC or Recon. That is their purpose!
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:34:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 18:33:51
Originally by: xxxak
Yes, ECM ships can cause problems, but frankly so can any HAC or Recon.
No they cant. Not in the same way. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Etho Demerzel
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:34:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Merdaneth PIE runs an all Amarr fleet. This is the Falcon we typically face:
6x White Noise ECM, 1x MWD 3x 'Hypnos' Signal Amp 2x ECM rigs
We find a Typhoon/Domi outside the station. One Geddon undocks and draws aggro. Hostile returns fire, two more Geddons and a Zealot undock too to help. Falcon uncloaks at 150km. Two of the Geddon's have 1x ECCM fitted (standard policy at that time) one has not. Zealot has (obviously) no ECCM, but MWD/web/scram.
Jam strength is between 14-15. Geddon base sensor strength is 17.
1x Geddon without ECCM: 85% chance of jam. Including relock time, that Geddon is effectively taken out of the fight by a single jammer. 2x Geddon with ECCM: 42% to jam with a single jammer, 68% with two, 82% with three 1x Zealot: 100% chance with a single jammer
Geddon's try to fight, and occasionally get a few shots in. Guns are largely disabled, remote repping assistance is large disabled. Zealot runs at the Falcon, but as soon as it comes close, one jammer takes it out permanently. Geddons are unable to concentrate enough fire to take down the Typhoon. Once one Geddon is down, its really all over. Jam odds only increase from now on.
Without ECCM, one Falcon like that pretty much disables a single ship of nearly any type for each of its jammer. Obviously, when a known hostile with Falcon alt is sitting outside the station, nobody engages anymore, unless a large blob can be formed. and preferably ECCM'ed battleships. Anything else is pretty much rendered ineffective, even with ECCM fitted.
ECM is not that bad, but racial ECM can be a rather annoying. Stacking your (limited) mids full of otherwise useless ECCM's for the off chance that a Falcon is out there waiting is also rather annoying. But if we don't, we're pretty much ****** once a single Falcon does turn up.
You had 3 geddons against a Domi and a Typhoon. Even if each had a point in one of the geddons, that still leaves one geddon free to warp to the zealot (150 km away in the top of the falcon) and release the drones. As soon as you do that the Falco is history.
The whiners on this thread seem to conveniently "forget" that all you need near the Falcon is one interceptor in your gang to warp death into it...
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"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:41:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
The whiners on this thread seem to conveniently "forget" that all you need near the Falcon is one interceptor in your gang to warp death into it...
And how are the friends of the inty gonna warp when they are tackled and involved in close combat 150km away? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
xxxak
O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:44:00 -
[126]
Lyria, I beg to differ.
A single Vaga can easily strip a 10 man gang of it's frigate support, unless the frigate pilots are flying/obeying perfectly (something that never happens in PvP).
A single Huginn can **ruin** a small nano gang, assuming it has a few ships supporting it (few Drakes even).
I have seen two Ishtars kill a battleship in 15 seconds. With almost no risk to them.
A Falcon can remove the DPS of one, maybe two ships. It can't kill anything, btw. It's great at what it does, but is it hardly overpowered.
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Perfect Diamond
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:46:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 24/03/2008 18:46:02
^^Take that. Amarr is the tank OR gank race. Not the tank and gank race. |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:52:00 -
[128]
Originally by: xxxak
A single Vaga can easily strip a 10 man gang of it's frigate support, unless the frigate pilots are flying/obeying perfectly (something that never happens in PvP).
Yeah if the frig pilots are idiots. One brave inty would be able to tackle down a vaga near his friends and then its all over. Not every gang is beyond stupid you know. That is no argument.
Originally by: xxxak
A single Huginn can **ruin** a small nano gang, assuming it has a few ships supporting it (few Drakes even).
Yeah a small nano gang maybe. But everything above 3-4 nano hacs will destroy the huginn before he can do anything. Been there done that. It doesnt work like that.
Originally by: xxxak
I have seen two Ishtars kill a battleship in 15 seconds. With almost no risk to them.
I bet you havent.
Originally by: xxxak
A Falcon can remove the DPS of one, maybe two ships. It can't kill anything, btw. It's great at what it does, but is it hardly overpowered.
Uhm, a falcon can pretty much perma jam 2 battleships. Or jam several ships if they are smaller size then a BS. Yeah it is overpowered and it will get nerfed. Youll see. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
xxxak
O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 19:12:00 -
[129]
Originally by: xxxak
A single Huginn can **ruin** a small nano gang, assuming it has a few ships supporting it (few Drakes even).
You forget, nano gangs are very selective in what they attack. and if they see a Huginn their instantly gone.
I think you just proved my point for me. If a nano gang sees a Huginn, they are gone -- either dead or running. How is that *less* effective than a Falcon? lol
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.24 19:18:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/03/2008 19:21:31
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Hope youre not implying that Im using a falcon in my movies, Im not. (Still got months to go for a falcon alt sadly)
No, I wasn't (I was reffering to a number of people I face everyday). I mean, objectively, not all people have them, some people are bound to be only training them up
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
I agree that combat recons cant get a huge boost because they would become hacs. I think all combat recons are where they should be but there needs to be something done to all the cloaking force recons. They all need a nerf.
I'm inclined to agree. I mean, covops cloak + abilities of force recon sans DPS is pure win, and quite likely too much. If you want the ownage you get from combat recons, you should be at least visible on scanner.
Tbh, I don't remember the last time I saw a Rook. Does anyone? Rapiers are only like five times more popular then Huggins, and honestly, what's the last time you saw a Lachersis? I don't remember one in ages.
Well, except a noob in one a month ago who warped at a belt where we were killing some guys and got stuck in asteroids before he could escape, the poor bastard. Had he been flying a Rook, he'd probably live
Also, for all practical purposes, Recons > HACs, even the non-cloaky recons.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Bilbo Bubbinz
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.24 19:24:00 -
[131]
I only fully read the first few posts, and scanned the rest, because it looked like flamebait nonsense imo :)
Anyway, on topic. Pretty much the only comment I can agree with is the one about reducing the jam bonus to 15%/lvl. Makes sense, because the Rook wasn't intended to cloak.
Perma-jamming is a theoretical concept at best, because ECM mods are chance (statistic based) where as other mods are guaranteed to affect things. (ie, if you're in a set range, a damp WILL reduce locking range by <x percent>. Granted, with several racial specifics activated on a specific ship, may give the impression you are jammed indefinately, but you haven't thought about the accumulative percentile chances. I ran some basic number crunching with a few friends last night, and we worked it out at with 3x racial jams on a battleship brings about a 92% accumulative chance of a successful jam/cycle. (its been way too long since I have had to deal with this kind of calculation so I may be a bit off)
Also, ships guaranteed a jam off a single mod? Perhaps, against tech 1 frigates, (The build I fit on eft with maxed skills + rigs, gave me about a 14.92 jamming str. At a quick glance, there are a few tech 1 cruisers which have a higher base sensor str than this, so Im going to call shennanigans on this one... Although, 100% jamming on something with a lower str than your jam str perhaps, I haven't tested this yet, although I plan on doing this at some point)
Slightly off topic here, why are there all of a sudden so many "nerf ECM" threads appaering, Im not seeing many "OMG THE CERB IS TEH SUXOR, NERF VAGAS, SACS!!!!!" threads. Everyone and their goldfish know that caldari are very specialised into specific areas. Missile boats in general are considered fail in pvp, at least let caldari pilots be able to contribute something to the field! :P
Just my 0.02 isk:
Note. Im suprised no ones been awkward enough to bring the actual statistics into this whine thread yet! :D
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Labienus
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.03.24 19:29:00 -
[132]
There is nothing wrong with the falcon. My alt was max skilled with it before the buff, the buff wasnt really needed. If you are engaging people and a falcon uncloaks and jams you...bad intel..
I use my falcon on roaming gangs deep into 0.0, I hardly ever get 150km ranges...because i havnt bookmarked the entire Universe. 150km+ is when its at its PERFECT position. Most falcons i engage are at 100km. And if they are warping in at 100km...you can drop a bubble and drag it even closer! Falcon without range will die so fast its pointless it being there.
Plus a falcon cant perma jam a battleship, it is IMPOSSIBLE. it can have a very HIGH chance at jamming a battleship, that is all. There are many counters...
Nano ships can dictate range and travel 100/150km so fast. Dragging Falcons into dictor bubbles, mobile warp bubbles will seriously effect how well they do. Jam them back, maybe? Damps work well also...especially as you can nano the gallente recons to get in range easier..
Also you can use ECCM. Who would fly a falcon if all you can do is jam 2 people? i mean...come off it. You are using both your ecm bonus's to jam 2 people? While a Curse, Arazu, Rapiers have 2 EW bonuses?
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.24 19:38:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I'm inclined to agree. I mean, covops cloak + abilities of force recon sans DPS is pure win, and quite likely too much. If you want the ownage you get from combat recons, you should be at least visible on scanner.
Disagree, because ewar is a part of the game. Deal with it.
Quote: Tbh, I don't remember the last time I saw a Rook. Does anyone?
Yesterday, 3x. I actually saw more rooks than Falcons (and it wasn't because the falcons were cloaked). The rook gets an extra mid.
Quote: Rapiers are only like five times more popular then Huggins
I don't know that I agree with this statement.
Quote: and honestly, what's the last time you saw a Lachersis? I don't remember one in ages.
Well, I haven't seen an Arazu in a similar period. Both ships were so strongly overnerfed that virtually nobody flies them anymore. Hell, you'll be more effective with a disruptor/TD lach than a damp lach.
Quote: Well, except a noob in one a month ago who warped at a belt where we were killing some guys and got stuck in asteroids before he could escape, the poor bastard. Had he been flying a Rook, he'd probably live
Depends if he had the skills and how many there were of you.
Quote: Also, for all practical purposes, Recons > HACs, even the non-cloaky recons.
This is a patently false statement. The two are parallels, neither greater than the other. Grow up and stop whining about ewar in the game.
-Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.24 19:47:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/03/2008 19:48:33 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/03/2008 19:47:46
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I'm inclined to agree. I mean, covops cloak + abilities of force recon sans DPS is pure win, and quite likely too much. If you want the ownage you get from combat recons, you should be at least visible on scanner.
Disagree, because ewar is a part of the game. Deal with it.
The issue is rather cloaking recons vs non-cloaking recons.
The benefit of non-cloaking recons is too small to offset the suprise factor of covops cloak.
Or, rather, the penalty of cloaking recons is too small compared to the benefit of having a covops cloak. Ignoring the Pilgrim.
Which IS the point of this thread.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Quote: Also, for all practical purposes, Recons > HACs, even the non-cloaky recons.
This is a patently false statement. The two are parallels, neither greater than the other. Grow up and stop whining about ewar in the game.
Certain combat recons are quite comparable to HACs in effect when solo, and in gangs they outpreform HACs by a great deal.
If combat recons were used in a merely support role (like the Rook), they'd be parallels. I see people using Curses/Huggins in 'HAC with ewar' role, though.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ogul
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:14:00 -
[135]
Anyone running a pool on when ECM is going to be nerfed into uselessness again? --- Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes. |
Cautet
Precision Engineering Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:22:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 17:59:38
Originally by: Merdaneth PIE runs an all Amarr fleet. This is the Falcon we typically face:
6x White Noise ECM, 1x MWD 3x 'Hypnos' Signal Amp 2x ECM rigs
We find a Typhoon/Domi outside the station. One Geddon undocks and draws aggro. Hostile returns fire, two more Geddons and a Zealot undock too to help. Falcon uncloaks at 150km. Two of the Geddon's have 1x ECCM fitted (standard policy at that time) one has not. Zealot has (obviously) no ECCM, but MWD/web/scram.
This is the problem. Small gang warfare dies. But thats not what the falcon fanbois would like you to belive.
OK, let me solve this problem for you.
Move 1 km away from falcon that uncloaked 150km away from you if it has the setup posted. It's max targeting range is 150km with level 5 skills. He won't be targeting you anymore. You win.
Then, use the properly fitted ships you have designed to counter this ship and single volley it. You don't even need eccm for it, easy, huh!
Also, while i'm sure there are good RP reasons for an all Amarr fleet, you have to accept the drawbacks are really going to hurt your pvp by making you predicable. Please don't ask for game mechanics to be changed to overcome limitations you place on yourself.
Some more ways to beat ECM ships - send a inty near to it, if inty can't deal with it warp some other ships to it as its 150km out. Get an arbritator for your amarr fleet and nano it up - send it to falcon and let its drones hurt the falcon. Get a Stealth Bomber with damps - these really annoy the hell out of falcons. Assume in advance that the enemy may bring ewar and prepare and plan for it.
Start blaming yourselves more and ships less.
On the damps thing - I wouldn't mind damps having a better optimal range on the galenti recons. I'm training up for them anyway as to be honest having an unexpected ship is often much better than one which is suposedly unbalanced.
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:32:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Cautet
Please don't ask for game mechanics to be changed to overcome limitations you place on yourself.
Oh dont worry about me, Im training a falcon alt as we speak. 3-4 weeks left now. Im not the one thats going to get hurt by this imbalance. Its just boring and lame, it is... -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Etho Demerzel
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:44:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
The whiners on this thread seem to conveniently "forget" that all you need near the Falcon is one interceptor in your gang to warp death into it...
And how are the friends of the inty gonna warp when they are tackled and involved in close combat 150km away?
Because ALL of the inty friends will be tackled right? You often tackle ALL enemy ships in the opposing gang at once right?
And even if that was true, you can't have a cloaked ship waiting for Falcon, can you? Like god forbid me a Pilgrim. A pilgrim would kill a falcon so fast it wouldn't even be funny...
Truth is, there are a so many counters to ECM ships it is nothing even funny. These are just 2 simple examples. All you need is to be able to use your brain, and make the conditions favorable to you, which unfortunately whiners are uncapable of doing...
=====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Fehz
Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:48:00 -
[139]
I almost read this entire thread.. Not once have I heard anyone say anything about FOF missiles.. but maybe since I'm a falcon pilot I should be quiet.. And has anyone here noticed the sensor strength recons get? It's nuts compared to everything else. It's tough to jam other recons. And let's see... Caldari have 2 ships that can choose their targets.. falcons and crows.. Everyone else can just pick a ship and nano it up. I've seen people try to nano caldari ships.. that's some funny stuff..
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:53:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
The whiners on this thread seem to conveniently "forget" that all you need near the Falcon is one interceptor in your gang to warp death into it...
And how are the friends of the inty gonna warp when they are tackled and involved in close combat 150km away?
Because ALL of the inty friends will be tackled right? You often tackle ALL enemy ships in the opposing gang at once right?
And even if that was true, you can't have a cloaked ship waiting for Falcon, can you? Like god forbid me a Pilgrim. A pilgrim would kill a falcon so fast it wouldn't even be funny...
Truth is, there are a so many counters to ECM ships it is nothing even funny. These are just 2 simple examples. All you need is to be able to use your brain, and make the conditions favorable to you, which unfortunately whiners are uncapable of doing...
Oh so youll split your group in half? Leave 2 tackled ships behind and warp 2-3 to the falcon? Sorry but youre clueless. It doesnt work. Before you pull that off the falcon will warp off or cloak. Or even worse he'll warp off right before those 2-3 ships come out of warp and your gang is split in two. The 2 ships left behind get ganked while your inty now flies to the other direction for another warp in point to your friends that are dying. Before you get there they are dead and youre outnumbered and falcon comes back at 150km and does the same again.
It does not work and youre just theory-crafting and its no better then the people living in eft and on sisi that barely know what pvp is on tranq. Please long on tranquility before you present solutions like this. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
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Reto
The Last Resort
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:59:00 -
[141]
Originally by: xxxak CRY CRY CRY... boo hoo ..
The Falcon/Rook is the *ONE* great PvP ship that Caldari get. Yes, it is very powerful, but so is the Vagabond, the Huginn, Ishtar, Sac, etc etc.
Get over it. Yes, ECM ships can cause problems, but frankly so can any HAC or Recon. That is their purpose!
yes a vagabond is as powerful as a falcon (N00B).
you sir are a caldari fanboi not understanding overall gamebalance which is not there to benefit one race at the cost of all others but support a natural balance between those 4 which helps to maintain a fair and balanced battle system where players can decide battles by tactics and knowldge and not by simply getting a flavor of the month ship. after you played eve for a while youll realize this.
Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:07:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
And even if that was true, you can't have a cloaked ship waiting for Falcon, can you? Like god forbid me a Pilgrim. A pilgrim would kill a falcon so fast it wouldn't even be funny...
Truth is, there are a so many counters to ECM ships it is nothing even funny. These are just 2 simple examples. All you need is to be able to use your brain, and make the conditions favorable to you, which unfortunately whiners are uncapable of doing...
Just about any ship can kill a Falcon so fast it's not funny. If your gang is worried about Falcons, bring 1 Snipoc with an ECCM. 4000 unhardened hitpoints, half of them shields (0% resist to EM) will vanish like a snowflake in a furnace.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Galen Salkor
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:28:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Fehz I almost read this entire thread.. Not once have I heard anyone say anything about FOF missiles.. but maybe since I'm a falcon pilot I should be quiet.. And has anyone here noticed the sensor strength recons get? It's nuts compared to everything else. It's tough to jam other recons. And let's see... Caldari have 2 ships that can choose their targets.. falcons and crows.. Everyone else can just pick a ship and nano it up. I've seen people try to nano caldari ships.. that's some funny stuff..
The problem with FoFs is that they go after the closest hostile target, including drones. One on One, they will work great (I easily beat a Celestis with a Caracal once in a duel - pre-damp nerf, shields hardly scratched) after all the drones are dead. In a group battle they will just go after the closest hostile. First drones which are usually very close to you then tacklers or the big tanked BS that is shooting you.
That said, however, you can get a crow up close to the falcon which has pathetic DPS anyway and would never be able to kill the speed-tanked crow, and use FoF missiles if he jams you. The crow will hurt it pretty bad so it will have to leave or die without even being tackled.
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xxxak
O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:42:00 -
[144]
Edited by: xxxak on 24/03/2008 21:43:33
Originally by: Reto
yes a vagabond is as powerful as a falcon (N00B).
you sir are a caldari fanboi not understanding overall gamebalance which is not there to benefit one race at the cost of all others but support a natural balance between those 4 which helps to maintain a fair and balanced battle system where players can decide battles by tactics and knowldge and not by simply getting a flavor of the month ship. after you played eve for a while youll realize this.
If you really believe a Vaga bond is not as powerful as a Falcon, then explain to me why ~40% of 0.0 pvpers (offensive) fly a Vaga and only 15% fly a Caldari Recon?
There is more to "deciding a battle" than you think. Vagas can dictate range and who they engage in a way that literally *NO* Caldari ship can do (Well, maybe the Crow). I would be HAPPY to nerf the Falcon if you are willing to lose 3km/s off the Vaga.
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:44:00 -
[145]
Originally by: xxxak
Originally by: Reto
yes a vagabond is as powerful as a falcon (N00B).
you sir are a caldari fanboi not understanding overall gamebalance which is not there to benefit one race at the cost of all others but support a natural balance between those 4 which helps to maintain a fair and balanced battle system where players can decide battles by tactics and knowldge and not by simply getting a flavor of the month ship. after you played eve for a while youll realize this.
If you really believe a Vaga bond is not as powerful as a Falcon, then explain to me why ~40% of 0.0 pvpers (offensive) fly a Vaga and only 15% fly a Caldari Recon?
Because 95% of pvpers are not real pvpers but are cowards. Vagas are the easiest getaways and do decent damage. Todays ship popularity is about wich ship has the highest survival rate and not power. Wich is sad. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
xxxak
O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:54:00 -
[146]
Well call them cowards or call them smart, but the fact remains that until we fix the "nano situation" it makes the "ECM situation" look just fine.
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:59:00 -
[147]
Originally by: xxxak Well call them cowards or call them smart, but the fact remains that until we fix the "nano situation" it makes the "ECM situation" look just fine.
Id sign for fixing both. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Etho Demerzel
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.03.24 22:11:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
The whiners on this thread seem to conveniently "forget" that all you need near the Falcon is one interceptor in your gang to warp death into it...
And how are the friends of the inty gonna warp when they are tackled and involved in close combat 150km away?
Because ALL of the inty friends will be tackled right? You often tackle ALL enemy ships in the opposing gang at once right?
And even if that was true, you can't have a cloaked ship waiting for Falcon, can you? Like god forbid me a Pilgrim. A pilgrim would kill a falcon so fast it wouldn't even be funny...
Truth is, there are a so many counters to ECM ships it is nothing even funny. These are just 2 simple examples. All you need is to be able to use your brain, and make the conditions favorable to you, which unfortunately whiners are uncapable of doing...
Oh so youll split your group in half? Leave 2 tackled ships behind and warp 2-3 to the falcon? Sorry but youre clueless. It doesnt work. Before you pull that off the falcon will warp off or cloak. Or even worse he'll warp off right before those 2-3 ships come out of warp and your gang is split in two. The 2 ships left behind get ganked while your inty now flies to the other direction for another warp in point to your friends that are dying. Before you get there they are dead and youre outnumbered and falcon comes back at 150km and does the same again.
It does not work and youre just theory-crafting and its no better then the people living in eft and on sisi that barely know what pvp is on tranq. Please long on tranquility before you present solutions like this.
Yes because one inty and one pilgrim are HALF of your gang...
You have no arguments.
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"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 22:14:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
You have no arguments.
We'll let ccp decide that in the near future. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Merdaneth
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.03.24 22:23:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
You had 3 geddons against a Domi and a Typhoon. Even if each had a point in one of the geddons, that still leaves one geddon free to warp to the zealot (150 km away in the top of the falcon) and release the drones. As soon as you do that the Falco is history.
The whiners on this thread seem to conveniently "forget" that all you need near the Falcon is one interceptor in your gang to warp death into it...
I think I was unclear. We had many fights with Falcons. They usually involved *one* good tanking ship at the undocking port, either a Typhoon or a Domi. Yes, we lost to only on damage-dealing battleship, not two, despite some ECCM.
In most cases, the Falcon's tend to be within the 150km warp range to avoid being at a warpable point. Even if so, they will just warp to another point and continue the jamming. ____
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