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Why do people hate on mining carebears ?

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IDF187 Lucky Hydra Corp SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:27:00 - [1] It just a simple question, why? Iam no carebear, I like a good fight, but what I also like is for my allianse carebears to build me a nice ship for much less then market, I love carebears they supply my blood thirsty ars. Has any1 thought of it that way, and perhaps stop hating on them?
Ralara D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:29:00 - [2] Who hates them? -- Ralara / Ralarina
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:30:00 - [3] Originally by: IDF187 It just a simple question, why? Iam no carebear, I like a good fight, but what I also like is for my allianse carebears to build me a nice ship for much less then market, I love carebears they supply my blood thirsty ars. Has any1 thought of it that way, and perhaps stop hating on them? Its because people dont understand them. Think of the carebears
Willow Whisp Sadist Faction	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:31:00 - [4] Industrialists > Carebears. Your chosen profession has nothing to do with your Carebear Status. You could be a Pirate, and still be a Carebear. -- My Sig got pwnt by Cortes :(
IDF187 Lucky Hydra Corp SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Ralara Who hates them? Cant name names, but I do hear alot of hate towards them
IDF187 Lucky Hydra Corp SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:32:00 - [6] Originally by: Willow Whisp Industrialists > Carebears. Your chosen profession has nothing to do with your Carebear Status. You could be a Pirate, and still be a Carebear. Now that confused me, how?
Ralara D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:32:00 - [7] Originally by: IDF187 Originally by: Ralara Who hates them? Cant name names, but I do hear alot of hate towards them Ask them yourself then -- Ralara / Ralarina
Rakshasa Taisab Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:44:00 - [8] Originally by: IDF187 Now that confused me, how? Carebear-ness is a state of mind, not a chosen profession. A pirate that is risk averse (suicide ganker, etc) is a carebear, while an industrialist mining and building ships in the depths of 0.0 isn't. It is the unwillingness to take risks to earn isk is what defines the carebear-ish qualities of a player. --- Author of rTorrent, the BitTorrent client for real men and mice.
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:46:00 - [9] If people hate them, it's because they whine and don't understand that whining only makes people want to suicide/can flip them more. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:49:00 - [10] What is a carebear anyways? It certainly is not an Industrialist. There are many industrialists who take risks, lose ships, engage in PvP, etc. That profession does not a carebear make. It certainly is not a Miner. Lots of players mine or have mined. Some even do nothing but mine, yet even those players, as long as they take risks, fight back, etc... can they really be considered carebears? It certainly is not a Collector. I love collecting ships. Earning isk, buying ships, kitting 'em out and stairing at 'em in my hangar. But no matter how many I collect, I know one day I'll use each and every one of them, and I'll probably lose most of 'em too. That doesn't sound like a carebear. A carebear is not a label connected to what one produces, sells or buys. Probably, what makes a carebear a carebear, is simply the unwillingness to take small risks or lose internet spaceships. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Surfin's PlunderBunny GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:54:00 - [11] 1. A player who detests Player versus Player (PvP) gaming and whines about how it ruins their gaming enjoyment. 2. A player who is killed or has a loss through theft and then complains about player harassment. 3. A player who focuses their gameplay strictly on crafting or other non-competitve activity. 4. A player who is afraid of getting ganked by other gaming players. 5. Players more concerned with "coloring" their houses, clothing, names, etc... than with playing against other people in a competitve gaming environment. 6. A player who ruined the PvP MMORPG industry by complaining so much that PvP MMORPG development is rare. Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Overwhelmed Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:57:00 - [12] Edited by: Overwhelmed on 23/03/2008 09:57:51 A carebear generally refers to the state of mind of people who inject such a vehement sense of morality into a world consisting solely of virtual property that they don't understand the irony of throwing a hissy-fit once they lose that property in PvP. They insist that not blowing up other people's ships or scamming them in a game designed for that sort of competition is a sign of a true maturity. They are generally identified by calling you names at first if you destroy their ship, then insisting that because you can not confide by their strictly awesome and humanitarian view of the virtual world, you must be, in real life, a sociopath, basement virgin, _insert_generic_carebear_insult_ here. You can spend your entire game inside of high sec and laugh when you get suicide ganked and you are still not a carebear. On the flip side, sometimes you don't even know if a fellow PvPer is a carebear until he loses, then all of a sudden he's cursing his attackers entire family.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.03.23 09:58:00 - [13] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny 3. A player who focuses their gameplay strictly on crafting or other non-competitve activity. You of course realise that you have to sell the stuff you craft in some shape, way or form, right? That extremely competitive. More competitive than PvP by a long way.
Surfin's PlunderBunny GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:01:00 - [14] I got a trade alt... getting good at market griefing Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I got a trade alt... getting good at market griefing So your selling people what they think is a thorax, but reallys is a huge *****?
Darwin Duck Ark Royals	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Frug If people hate them, it's because they whine and don't understand that whining only makes people want to suicide/can flip them more. Everybody whine when a new change affects their gameplay. You have people using the learn to adapt phrase over and over again, until a change affect them, then they start to whine, no more learn to adapt from them. It's funny!
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Darwin Duck Originally by: Frug If people hate them, it's because they whine and don't understand that whining only makes people want to suicide/can flip them more. Everybody whine when a new change affects their gameplay. You have people using the learn to adapt phrase over and over again, until a change affect them, then they start to whine, no more learn to adapt from them. It's funny! I don't whine. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Surfin's PlunderBunny GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:25:00 - [18] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I got a trade alt... getting good at market griefing So your selling people what they think is a thorax, but reallys is a huge ***? We call it the "glory hole" Originally by:** Avaricia look a goon lol
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:35:00 - [19] Only in EVE can such an innocent term be given such derogatory meaning. Carebears are players who prefer not to "hurt" other players (in PvP combat, generally) and tend do other things instead. Missioning, mining, exploration, etc. I would say people don't hate carebears, they just foolishly apply the term to people who don't deserve it.
Wild Rho GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:36:00 - [20] It's basically anyone who expects the game to be changed to suit themselves and their play style ignoring the ramifications it would have on the game or other play styles. They'll also typically make personal attacks or insults against people who disagree with or counter their arguments. What you do ingame profession wise has nothing to do with it.
Darwin Duck Ark Royals	Posted - 2008.03.23 10:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Wild Rho It's basically anyone who expects the game to be changed to suit themselves and their play style ignoring the ramifications it would have on the game or other play styles. They'll also typically make personal attacks or insults against people who disagree with or counter their arguments. What you do ingame profession wise has nothing to do with it. Err no, look at the post above your post, thats the correct description of a carebear.
Simon Wiesenthal Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:25:00 - [22] Edited by: Simon Wiesenthal on 23/03/2008 11:27:04 Why do they pick on carebears? Easy...because they can. What you have to remember about games like Eve, is that they attract all the crybabys who suck at online FPS. And the reason they suck? Online FPSs are a level playing field where all that matters is your skill and reaction time. So after getting their asses kicked for a while (and realising that shouting HAX! doesn't actually work) they find eve, where, to much delight, they discover "ZOMG I CAN SHOOT SUM1 WHO WONT SHOOT BACK!!!!one11!!". It's great for them because it helps them feel better about how frustrated and angry they are at being so insignificant and powerless in the real world. Of course, there are targets that can shoot back, but the crunch with eve is....skill plays very little part in the combat aspect. Sure, we increase skills, but that's just a case of clicking "train skill" and waiting x amount of time. REAL skill is almost non-existant. Combat boils down to, pressing F1-F8, wait for outcome and hope you don't get disconnected. Which is why you never see fair fights in eve, a griefer/bully will never intentionally put themselves in a situation where there is a possibilty they could lose their "preshush battulship". Their egos simply won't allow it, because killboards and bragging rights is all they have. But, that said, it isn't these peoples fault. That's the way Eve is designed by CCP and it's actually quite a clever marketting ploy. When you make an online game you always leave yourself open to competition, but CCP have already countered this. Make a game that encourages bullying and griefing, unfair combat, back stabbing etc...a game where new players are hounded and griefed until they quit...a game where new players are discouraged from advancing and what do you get? A game with a reputation for being so hardcore that it keeps the playerbase a low managable figure. But how does that help stave off competition? Easy; because the playerbase is way lower than other games, it makes it look like EVE just isn't worth competing with....and that, is marketing genius. Sure, they could make more money if they had more players but the simple fact is, CCP don't want the playerbase that WoW has; for two simple reasons 1 - they simply couldn't handle it 2 - the hardcore would get very upset that suddenly they were very small fish in a very large pond (and CCP will NEVER allow the hardcore to be affected) So there you have it, EvE in a nutshell, a griefers paradise...but would I change it? not in a million years. I actually like eve the way it is, my diatribe is merely a way of offering an explanation as to the behaviour of many players. I've met some really nice players in my short time in eve, but for the most part, I find many of the players insufferable morons (mostly teenagers too, who would have thought eh?). My best advice is, if eve is too much, you're better off playing something else. CCP won't lose any sleep over a cancelled account, they never do, because for every carebear that leaves, there's 10 griefers waiting to sign up...just as soon as they've cancelled their onlne FPS account in a fit of pique of course.... /me awaits the angry flames, with bad spelling from typing through the tears... in b4 gb2/wow, can I have your stuff and post with your main
Ki An Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:47:00 - [23] Seems there are many definitions of a carebear. I use it in chat with corpies as describing all money making activities that does not involve direct pvp. However, to me a carebear is really something else entirelly. It's been described above. A carebear is someone who can't stand the fact that they might actually lose. They will take any means necessary to avoid losing, and if they still lose, they will throw a hissy fit and use any form of abuse to "get back" at their assailant. They are people that does not understand, and would never admit, that Eve is a PvP centered game and that non-consentual PvP is how it is and how it should be. They are people who thinks their own morality is the benchmark for everyone else, and that if someone strays from the "one true path", it is becuase there is something wrong with the in real life. Basically, they take the game way too seriously. As for why people hate them, well, if you subscribe to my description of a carebear its easy enough to understand the ire, isn't it? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:49:00 - [24] Its just e-peen stroking, makes ppl feel like big man Miners and builders are awesome, its thanks to you guys that we have plentiful gear to buy. Keep doing your thing. PS - My only suggestion is, why dont more of you make "stores", like instead of selling everything at hubs, find a place that's out of the way and underserved, and stock EVERYTHING, ppl will buy ships/mods/ammo/etc everything from you if they can buy it all in 1 place. So if you're a professional manufacturer, do that and you will get your stuff sold.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:55:00 - [25] Originally by: Cipher7 Its just e-peen stroking, makes ppl feel like big man Miners and builders are awesome, its thanks to you guys that we have plentiful gear to buy. Keep doing your thing. PS - My only suggestion is, why dont more of you make "stores", like instead of selling everything at hubs, find a place that's out of the way and underserved, and stock EVERYTHING, ppl will buy ships/mods/ammo/etc everything from you if they can buy it all in 1 place. So if you're a professional manufacturer, do that and you will get your stuff sold. Several reasons. 1) BPOs of everything tend toward the expensive. 2) Inventing everything is impractical. 3) Assuming you do stock your hand-picked station, you really have no way of informing the general public that said station stocks everything. 4) People are lazy. Autopilot >>> Amarr is easier than, "Does this station have this? What about that? What about this other thing?" Originally by: Frug Your reputation has been entirely redeemed in my eyes. I now want your babies.
Lougra United Forces Industrial	Posted - 2008.03.23 12:08:00 - [26] Originally by: IDF187 It just a simple question, why? Iam no carebear, I like a good fight, but what I also like is for my allianse carebears to build me a nice ship for much less then market, I love carebears they supply my blood thirsty ars. Has any1 thought of it that way, and perhaps stop hating on them? The problem is starting from you. Very obviously, you adopted the surename "carebear". That means, you accepted something that mostly started to separate pvpers from the rest. As it sounds to me, every time that this surename used, is to express a kind of disgust for miners, and it involves a kind of racism. You are free to be, anything you want to be. The most worst thing, is to be what others want YOU to be. As it seems, they have achieved it up to a point. \ Carebear is the surname that others gives you, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
Decard Sune Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 12:12:00 - [27] Edited by: Decard Sune on 23/03/2008 12:12:37 Carebear is a derogatory term used by those who feel that every player should be nothing mroe than a target for their pleasure. These individuals usually have no interest in anything but their own enjoyment, which is dervied primarialy from ruining the enjoyment of others. Basically a carebear is anyone who lacks the sociopathic tendancies of the pvp mindset.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.23 12:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Decard Sune Edited by: Decard Sune on 23/03/2008 12:12:37 Carebear is a derogatory term used by those who feel that every player should be nothing mroe than a target for their pleasure. These individuals usually have no interest in anything but their own enjoyment, which is dervied primarialy from ruining the enjoyment of others. Basically a carebear is anyone who lacks the sociopathic tendancies of the pvp mindset. Sociopathic implies that we're not playing a game, that we're doing RL work and other people are ruining it for their enjoyment. Assume anything you build, anything you buy, anything you own, is going to be destroyed. Don't be attached to material stuff. Learn to let go. It is not a human right to own a CNR. It is not a human right to own a Hulk. It is not a human right to have +5 implants. All those things are temporary items that you use for as long as they survive. Don't think of it like WoW where you loot an uber sword and its yours for the rest of eternity, here the purple sword is a tempoary item, there are many like it, you lose 1 you get another. My definition of carebear : Carebear is an action not a person. "I'm carebearing right now" means I'm either ratting or mining or missionhoing, anything that involves interacting with NPC's or the environment to accumulate wealth.
Pax Ratlin Woodland Larch	Posted - 2008.03.23 12:58:00 - [29] Edited by: Pax Ratlin on 23/03/2008 13:00:55 Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny 6. A player who ruined the PvP MMORPG industry by complaining so much that PvP MMORPG development is rare. I wasn't gonna comment on this enitre post as it is the usual frothing at the mouth rant or possible troll, which as per usual is about 5% truth 95% self interest, but this point in particular needs replying to. But honestly it's not the PvP MMORPG industry ... it's the MMORPG industry of which PvP is a sub-genre. Or more specifically the mmorpg industry isn't there to facilitate the bloodlust of pre adult spolit brats but in actually fact it's their to make MONEY!!! And as the player figures from many many sources show purely PvP orientated games tend to be asian in origin, free to play or micro transaction games .... or as an economist would say not where the europeans spend their money typically. So no carebears arn't killing the development of the PvP genre of MMORPG's, in fact more and more games are being released onto the market that are pure PvP than arn't PVP orientated... it's just CCP ain't making their money off these people (at the moment, cause if you think CCP/White Wolf's Vampire game ain't gonna be buckets of blood then you really have parted company with reality) So just wanted to clear that up for anyone who thought that that particular statement bore more than a passing resemblance to reality. (Edited to avoid probably mis-understands)
Annaphera The Green Machine	Posted - 2008.03.23 13:12:00 - [30] Pure and simple - 'carebear' started (many MMO's ago, it is not new with EVE) as a term used to try and goad non-PvPers into the PvP playstyle. It was originally PvP players talking smack, nothing more. It is still used in similar fashion by some, as a way for some PvP players to make themselves feel superior and to try and prod others into engaging in PvP by putting them down. Playground bully tactics, nothing more. It has been somewhat accepted by the general community to mean those who play by means other than PvP. Honestly, I find the variety of definitions here fascinating, and wonder if the people posting realize just how much those definitions say about them.
Esmenet Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 13:27:00 - [31] Edited by: Esmenet on 23/03/2008 13:28:53 Originally by: Ki An A carebear is someone who can't stand the fact that they might actually lose. They will take any means necessary to avoid losing, and if they still lose, they will throw a hissy fit and use any form of abuse to "get back" at their assailant. They are people that does not understand, and would never admit, that Eve is a PvP centered game and that non-consentual PvP is how it is and how it should be. They are people who thinks their own morality is the benchmark for everyone else, and that if someone strays from the "one true path", it is becuase there is something wrong with the in real life. Basically, they take the game way too seriously. Thats a good definition. The funny thing is that they claim to have some kind of moral and age superiority while at the same time hurling abuse at you in the manner of a spoiled brat.
Venkul Mul Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.23 13:46:00 - [32] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 23/03/2008 13:47:19 The people posting here are my definition of carebear read the linked thread and notice, most of them are PvPers. "Whaa I should not risk my precious skillpoints"
Nyabinghi Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.23 13:49:00 - [33] I know for a fact pirates and gankers LOVE carebears cause they are easy to blow up. ***
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.23 13:53:00 - [34] because they're not as cool as chribba. ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Barbelo Valentinian Liberty Corporation	Posted - 2008.03.23 14:01:00 - [35] Originally by: Ki An A carebear is someone who can't stand the fact that they might actually lose. They will take any means necessary to avoid losing, Yes exactly, so skilled "pirates" in Megathrons ganking newbie miners, or corporations consisting of such skilled people wardeccing and bullying newbie corps is carebearing. QED. ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Ki An Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.03.23 14:03:00 - [36] Edited by: Ki An on 23/03/2008 14:04:31 Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian Yes exactly, so skilled "pirates" in Megathrons ganking newbie miners, or corporations consisting of such skilled people wardeccing and bullying newbie corps is carebearing. QED. If that's all that they do, I would agree. Edit: As long as they conform to the other rules I listed in my defenition of a carebear. Please don't snippet one line from a whole. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
SoftRevolution Complicity.	Posted - 2008.03.23 14:16:00 - [37] My take on it is that people like to think EVE is teh h4rdc0r3z. If EVE is teh h4rdc0r3z then they must be teh h4rdc0r3z for playing it. But what's this? All these guys mining and missioning in empire? Oh god no! This is a game a WoW player could like! But if that's the case are we still teh h4rdc0r3z? No we are not. We may as well be playing Sanrio's newest Well, would you be happy with someone who provided you a universe shattering revelation of this magnitude? EVE RELATED CONTENT
SiJira Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 14:22:00 - [38] Originally by: IDF187 It just a simple question, why? Iam no carebear, I like a good fight, but what I also like is for my allianse carebears to build me a nice ship for much less then market, I love carebears they supply my blood thirsty ars. Has any1 thought of it that way, and perhaps stop hating on them? most people cant understand how someone can mine for hours after their first eve day and think they are all sweatshop farmers Trashed sig, Shark was here
Venkul Mul	Posted - 2008.03.23 14:34:00 - [39] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 23/03/2008 14:36:30 Originally by: SiJira most people cant understand how someone can mine for hours after their first eve day and think they are all sweatshop farmers So most people are pretty stupid or think that the ships are all NPC products. If someone is willing to stare for hours to a gate waiting for the 30 seconds of "happiness" when he destroy someone, he should have no problem thinking that someone can stare for hours an asteroid for the 30 seconds of "happiness" of building and selling a ship.
Tellnan Matkiel Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.23 14:56:00 - [40] It is interesting that some people appear to use the term as justification for their own actions. There is an element of meta-game morality here that I find absolutely fascinating. To take an obvious example, the Goonswarm jihad/pogrom against exhumers/miners is justified (by them) by the definition of exhumer pilots as carebears, and worthy of scorn. For my own part I find the term to be too inexact. Too many possible and conflicting meanings. Just to be plain, I don't have any particular problem with Goonswarm's actions, I just find the meta-morality angle intriguing is all. :)
Ruah Piskonit PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.03.23 16:46:00 - [41] A carebear is someone who, more oftain then not, plays alone and runs CCP created content (missions, exploration, Cosmos, et al). They tend to dissain from conflict and fighting and rarely leave high sec space unless it is to run missions, do exploration, cosmos, et al. Although 'hate' is too strong a word, a lot of people dislike them because they belive CCP give the carebear too much protection. EvE is a very pvp oriented game. These days, it is commonly accepted that there are sevaral ways to do pvp (combat, trading, etc) but the carebear seeks to avoid all of these. People hate them because CCP will 'softain' the game (introduce Concorde, 'nurf' empire ganking, deepspace, wtz) and allow for people who don't agree with unconsentual pvp to live in the game and oftain make good ammount of money. What these people want is for the massive part of MMO be preserved along with the very nasty pvp aspect of the game. People fear that these values will be lost as CCP continues to cater to carebears. ----
Azirapheal The Bastards	Posted - 2008.03.23 16:51:00 - [42] i just used to hate the smash bears crying for help when RA were making them mine like biatches because of peokes screwup whole reason i left smash and joined RK so i could actually fight without peokes and emps having a cissyfit at me. as an aside, imagine the carebear tears if all pirates stopped shooting eachother for a month, no new ships would be needed etc and thus carebear wallets would not rise without missions. its a two sided coin, we destroy stuff and you profit. try to remember this next time you are ransomed. the guy ransoming you is merely claiming his marketing bonus ;)
SheriffFruitfly FlyinPenguin Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.23 16:53:00 - [43] Edited by: SheriffFruitfly on 23/03/2008 16:53:46 This is eve. Home of a$$holes.
Lori Carlyle Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.03.23 16:55:00 - [44] Originally by: SheriffFruitfly Edited by: SheriffFruitfly on 23/03/2008 16:53:46 This is eve. Home of a$$holes. Welcome home.. ---- CCP Please answer the following Questions.
Soporo Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.23 17:38:00 - [45] Eve definitions: Carebear = risk averse people who arent jackasses for its own sake. People who will also quit the game before being "forced" to move anywhere uncomfortable. They sometimes complain shrilly when their naive ways get them in trouble. Griefer = people out to ruin someones day for no better reason than it somehow validates their lame existence, and who sweatily abuse themselves over pics of their mom in the basement. They sometimes complain bitterly when a game mechanic is changed that stops them from farming 1 week old n00bs. EVE PvP'er = Pk'er 90% of the time. Dev = the guy who gives free BPO's to your enemies, offlines your POS, and talks on MSN to people you hate. Hope this helped your understanding.
Pax Ratlin Woodland Larch	Posted - 2008.03.23 17:47:00 - [46] Edited by: Pax Ratlin on 23/03/2008 17:54:01 Originally by: Ruah Piskonit People fear that these values will be lost as CCP continues to cater to it's main source of income. Fixed :) Plus An MMO isn't like any game you buy off the shelf at the store, you can't install, play, uninstall, wait 2 years, reinstall and expect to have exactly the same playing experience. It adapts, as it has to encourage the exsiting client base to cough up the subs each month, and changes with the companies preception of where it's gonna make the most money. As any carebear will tell you, you have to continually adapt to make the most profit. In otherwords you could say EvE was designed to be a very pvp orientated game, but it is currently a pvp orientated game. Is the game any better or worse than it was in the mythical 'golden age' of eve? Dunno, don't care, but lets look at Eve through the eyes of that mythical beast that no one wants to talk about and CCP spend all their waking hours in pursuit of, the dollar/euro/pound/rand/etc etc etc. So Mythical beast what do you see??? Player base up, number of players online at one time increased, increased noobs for pirates to gank .... yep looks like carebears are destroying the game ... oh wait Is this the right way for EvE to go ...... Dunno, don't care, that's for forum trolls and CCP focus groups to argue over. But the only really effective way for the hardcore PvPers can let CCP know how they really feel is to hit em where it hurts, in the wallet. And rest assured that when you stop playing you'll also be helping EvE to take a giant step forward in the direction of solving laggy fleet battles, the problem of low sec and all those other things the pvpers whine on about. Won't solve the crowding in Jita though
Taius Pax State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 18:07:00 - [47] Originally by: Cipher7 Sociopathic implies that we're not playing a game, that we're doing RL work and other people are ruining it for their enjoyment. Sociopathic means you exhibit asocial/antisocial behavior. No more, no less. Because it's occurring in a game we don't lock you up for life or give you the death penalty.
Saloris Nighthawke Ryche's Aggressors Asylum	Posted - 2008.03.23 18:11:00 - [48] I don't know why people think "Carebear" is an Eve term. It has been used in other MMo's for years! Think Rallos Zek in EQ way back in '99 which led to team PvP servers etc, etc, ad infinitum. sig was here
Overwhelmed Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.23 18:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Saloris Nighthawke I don't know why people think "Carebear" is an Eve term. It has been used in other MMo's for years! Think Rallos Zek in EQ way back in '99 which led to team PvP servers etc, etc, ad infinitum. IIRC Everquest used the term "Smurf" in reference to the blue names while I played.
AndrewRyan Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 18:16:00 - [50] What you have to remember about games like Eve, is that they attract all the crybabys who suck at online FPS. And the reason they suck? Online FPSs are a level playing field where all that matters is your skill and reaction time. Quoting for truth, The majority of MMORPG players suck at games where they are unable to hide behind experience points and time and grind sinks. That's why they ***** about "twitch" gameplay or tend to whine or quit when their I-win button gets changed, it doesn't just apply to FPS it applies to RTS and MMOs without SP or XP "character progression". But on saying that EVE isn't such a good example of this as it doesn't seem to attract the typical MMORPG 1337 kiddies and I know from experience that a good chunk of EVE players can do the business in games like TF2, its also worth pointing out that EVE pvp mirrors RTS gameplay as it leans towards intensive tactical micromanagement and is far more than F1-F8. ========================================= A Man chooses, a slave obeys.
Overwhelmed Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.23 18:24:00 - [51] Originally by: AndrewRyan Quoting for truth, The majority of MMORPG players suck at games where they are unable to hide behind experience points and time and grind sinks. That's why they ***** about "twitch" gameplay or tend to whine or quit when their I-win button gets changed, it doesn't just apply to FPS it applies to RTS and MMOs without SP or XP "character progression". Actually this isn't true. People can enjoy being poor at any game. WoW for example simply lacks people with previous gaming experience before, not that they couldn't hack it and you're total awesomesauceomgwtfbbqleetpwnz0retc. Many people simply don't like "twitch" gaming, particularly the older folk that tend to play MMORPGs. When you are younger, you can totally get "in the zone" and even get a rush in a competitive FPS. As you get older, you can't even force the will to care and are too busy thinking of other things for your attention and heartrate to raise slightly. As someone who is undefeated as a FPS young'un, I know this all too well.
Saloris Nighthawke Ryche's Aggressors Asylum	Posted - 2008.03.23 18:25:00 - [52] Originally by: Overwhelmed Originally by: Saloris Nighthawke I don't know why people think "Carebear" is an Eve term. It has been used in other MMo's for years! Think Rallos Zek in EQ way back in '99 which led to team PvP servers etc, etc, ad infinitum. IIRC Everquest used the term "Smurf" in reference to the blue names while I played. True. The players were "Smurfs" but the non-PvP servers were "Carebear" servers sig was here
L70Rogue State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 18:42:00 - [53] Originally by: AndrewRyan Edited by: AndrewRyan on 23/03/2008 18:24:23 Originally by: Simon Wiesenthal What you have to remember about games like Eve, is that they attract all the crybabys who suck at online FPS. And the reason they suck? Online FPSs are a level playing field where all that matters is your skill and reaction time. Quoting for truth, The majority of MMORPG players suck at games where they are unable to hide behind experience points and time and grind sinks. That's why they ***** about "twitch" gameplay or tend to whine or quit when their I-win button gets changed, it doesn't just apply to FPS it applies to RTS and MMOs without SP or XP "character progression". But on saying that EVE isn't such a good example of this as it doesn't seem to attract the typical MMORPG 1337 kiddies and I know from experience that a good chunk of EVE players can do the business in games like TF2, its also worth pointing out that EVE pvp mirrors RTS gameplay as it leans towards intensive tactical micromanagement and is far more than F1-F8. You sound bitter and jealous of people with more SP and must suck at this game. FPS take no skill at all sorry they are for children and monkeys.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.23 18:42:00 - [54] Originally by: Taius Pax Originally by: Cipher7 Sociopathic implies that we're not playing a game, that we're doing RL work and other people are ruining it for their enjoyment. Sociopathic means you exhibit asocial/antisocial behavior. No more, no less. Because it's occurring in a game we don't lock you up for life or give you the death penalty. Right so if you shoot people in BF2 you're a sociapath? Eve is a pvp game, if you don't like the possibility of getting killed, go play something else.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.23 18:47:00 - [55] Originally by: L70Rogue You sound bitter and jealous of people with more SP and must suck at this game. FPS take no skill at all sorry they are for children and monkeys. Sorry but BF2 pwns Eve, CS pwns Eve, Quake pws Eve and Halo pwns Eve. In fact let me just say categorically that FPS > MMORPG x 100 in every way from fun to skill to replay value. Just because alot of us play many different games (including Eve) dont ever get the idea that Eve is the best thing since sliced bread. It's not. MMORPG's in general are a waste of RAM and Eve is pretty much the only one I can stomach.
Qutan University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.23 19:30:00 - [56] Edited by: Qutan on 23/03/2008 19:30:26 For goodness sake every player in eve is a carebear get over it . Not a pirate I just love the
The Geoman Anarchos Industrial Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.23 19:52:00 - [57] So many definitions, so little time. How about: "a carebear is someone who doesn't play the game the way that I want them to."
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.23 19:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: L70Rogue You sound bitter and jealous of people with more SP and must suck at this game. FPS take no skill at all sorry they are for children and monkeys. Sorry but BF2 pwns Eve, CS pwns Eve, Quake pws Eve and Halo pwns Eve. In fact let me just say categorically that FPS > MMORPG x 100 in every way from fun to skill to replay value. Just because alot of us play many different games (including Eve) dont ever get the idea that Eve is the best thing since sliced bread. It's not. MMORPG's in general are a waste of RAM and Eve is pretty much the only one I can stomach. FPS leave me bored within a few minutes. Don't confuse "I like FPS games" with "Halo > EvE" I've played Halo, and while it's slick, fast, noisy and pretty, it's also repetitive, shallow, repetitive, simple, repetitive and repetitive. Basically it's a great game for an hour of unwinding after work on a Friday, when you want a game where you can ***** open a cold beer, put some loud music on, kind of trance out, blow up 10 rats a minute and not really think beyond the next ammo pack or cover point. That's great; it's also the polar opposite of EvE. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
AndrewRyan Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.23 20:08:00 - [59] Originally by: L70Rogue You sound bitter and jealous of people with more SP and must suck at this game. FPS take no skill at all sorry they are for children and monkeys. Explain how watching timer tick away takes skill? also FYI I don't "suck" at this game I do ok I admit I'm far from the top level yet but yes I do resent the fact that when you reach a certain point SP does hold you back longer than is necessary. Originally by: Cipher7 Sorry but BF2 pwns Eve, CS pwns Eve, Quake pws Eve and Halo pwns Eve. In fact let me just say categorically that FPS > MMORPG x 100 in every way from fun to skill to replay value. Just because alot of us play many different games (including Eve) dont ever get the idea that Eve is the best thing since sliced bread. It's not. MMORPG's in general are a waste of RAM and Eve is pretty much the only one I can stomach. I prefer RTS games over FPS but I have to agree by large the MMORPG genre sucks ass, poor graphics and outdated gameplay and mechanics are the accepted standard and MMORPGs are usually 3-5 years behind other genres in these aspects and most fantasy MMOs are around the KOTOR level which is a 2003 game, in short the whole genre is crud and EVE is also the only MMORPG I play and that's because spaceships are cool and for the pvp and it being in general superior to everything else. ========================================= A Man chooses, a slave obeys.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.23 21:14:00 - [60] Eve is the only MMO I am willing to pay money to play. So, I'm not an MMO type of player. I've played a handful of FPS, and even though I enjoy games like BF2 and CS:S, I really do suck at "twitch" gameplay. RTS is probably the easiest type of game for me to wrap my head around, but I tend to cruise through single player mode instead of try a challenge. At heart, I'm a builder, not a fighter. I'm not good at FPS games, but I enjoy the teamwork and loud noises. In Eve, I started out as a pure carebear who was more interested in collecting stuff and chatting with other players (Surfin knows, I was always chatting it up in our noob corp chat). But I moved on. Turns out, 0.0 players are more sociable than high-sec ones. And PvP is exhilarating, giving me a purpose to earn isk, train skills and buy ships. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Kyra Felann Noir.	Posted - 2008.03.23 21:33:00 - [61] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Carebear-ness is a state of mind, not a chosen profession. A pirate that is risk averse (suicide ganker, etc) is a carebear, while an industrialist mining and building ships in the depths of 0.0 isn't. It is the unwillingness to take risks to earn isk is what defines the carebear-ish qualities of a player. I concur. It's not as simple as PvPer vs PvEer, especially not in Eve, where almost everything is some form of PvP.
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.03.23 21:35:00 - [62] Yawning, yawning, yawning, rawhide! -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.23 21:46:00 - [63] Originally by: cal nereus Eve is the only MMO I am willing to pay money to play. So, I'm not an MMO type of player. I've played a handful of FPS, and even though I enjoy games like BF2 and CS:S, I really do suck at "twitch" gameplay. RTS is probably the easiest type of game for me to wrap my head around, but I tend to cruise through single player mode instead of try a challenge. At heart, I'm a builder, not a fighter. I'm not good at FPS games, but I enjoy the teamwork and loud noises. In Eve, I started out as a pure carebear who was more interested in collecting stuff and chatting with other players (Surfin knows, I was always chatting it up in our noob corp chat). But I moved on. Turns out, 0.0 players are more sociable than high-sec ones. And PvP is exhilarating, giving me a purpose to earn isk, train skills and buy ships. Good post. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Re Mi Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2008.03.23 22:10:00 - [64] This thread has been written almost entirely by non-carebears. It is not reflective of reality. Speaking as a carebear this is what I do: 1. I mine pvpers emo tears when they get nerfed as this is the best source of oxygen and hydrogen isotopes in EvE, and is a never ending supply. 2. I use the emo tears to fuel my POS where I make T2 reactions. 3. Profit. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Thenoran The People's Liberation Army	Posted - 2008.03.23 22:22:00 - [65] There is a difference between an Industrialist/Miner and a Carebear, which is something that seems to be overlooked by a lot of people. Appearantly going about your business shooting up pirates in missions, mining a bit, making millions from manufacturing and such labels a lot of people as a Carebear by mistake. What about people owning a POS in High-sec for Material research & Copying? Even a small POS requires serious amounts of ISK and standings, not to mention being able to supply it all. If I am stupid enough to go mine in Low-sec in a Retriever or mine AFK with that Jihadswarm about, it was my mistake and don't expect me to whine on the forums about it. For me, a Carebear is a WoW or FPS player expecting a free respawn with nothing lost when they are killed/ship destroyed, and then whine everyone's ear off on how they didn't get a new ship at the graveyard. Those who Industrialize/Mine in EVE are not Carebears, those who can't handle the fact that EVE is an unforgiving and hard place are. ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh
Bado Sten Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.03.23 22:35:00 - [66] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: IDF187 Now that confused me, how? Carebear-ness is a state of mind, not a chosen profession. A pirate that is risk averse (suicide ganker, etc) is a carebear, while an industrialist mining and building ships in the depths of 0.0 isn't. It is the unwillingness to take risks to earn isk is what defines the carebear-ish qualities of a player. This about sums it all up -- Do you need research services for your blueprints? We have available slots in Metropolis region. Look up my bio for info!
Tenebrys Havoc Violence and Chaos	Posted - 2008.03.24 00:14:00 - [67] Carebears tend to be people who are less concerned with how they fare in PVP than with their material worth in EVE. You can draw an analogy here with carebear-type, solo PvE-for-life players in World of Warcraft. WoW CAREBEAR: If you kill people, you're killing ones who are 10 levels or so lower than you and likely macros, and only for Honor Points to buy that next piece of equipment with. If you hit a battleground, you're likely just going to go AFK there and rack up honor points over there. Your interests are: A: Level 70 B: Max Stormwind reputation or whatever C: Epic mount D: Epic boots E: More gold You're likely to brag about all this in capital letters with spaces between them while passing through Hillsbrad Foothills. EVE CAREBEAR: If you kill people, you're just targeting and shooting at that flashing red frigate in 1.0 space who's already surrounded by a lump of CONCORD, and only because you think you might get his bounty. If you hit lowsec, it's to get those Giant Sealed Shipping Containers to station or to get a good deal on some module. Your interests are: A: Caldari Battleship V/Cruise Missile Specialization V B: Max Caldari Navy reputation C: Epic CNR D: Epic shield boost amplifier E: More ISK You're likely to brag about this in State War Academy or School of Applied Knowledge chat. The difference is that in EVE, all that can be taken away from you in a heartbeat, except maybe the navy reputation.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.24 01:56:00 - [68] People don't stay the same, they evolve, they try different aspects of the game, people don't mine/rat/mission/pvp at the same time, often you do 1 thing for months, train it hardcore, and become a solid professional. There was a time when I mined for like 4 months straight, mined every day, trained to hulk, trained refining, followed the market, etc. That doesn't mean I'm a miner now. I evolved. Up until a month ago I had never done a level 4. I ran level 3's like twice and went to live in 0.0, there I learned how to rat for maximum income. Before that I joined a PvP academy corp, and took an Agony Unleashed class, to learn the fundamentals of gang pvp. There was a time I wanted to do nothing but pvp all day every day but couldn't find a corp to do that in. I'm still evolving, trying things that are new to me, training up various professions. I have goals. A list of things that I want to do and things that I'd like to learn. My particular problem is I'm a perfectionist. I can't do things half-assed. I know I can jump into a BS and do level 4's no problem, but thats not my way. My way is to learn how to do them in record time, doing them over and over until I have the rhythm down cold, training up skills like negotiation so I can maximize income, so thats my goal right now to be a grade A first class top notch mission ho. My guess is that every player in Eve evolves the same way, they don't just do 1 thing forever, they change careers and try different things. So to me there is no such thing as a carebear, I think %99.999999 of people have either tried PvP or plan to try it, they just happen to be in a different aspect of the game right now.
Annaphera The Green Machine	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:05:00 - [69] You're all wrong...and right. The problem with the word "Carebear" is that it has no standard definition, and so ends up as a bizarre, sort of reverse "No True Scotsman" fallacy. To a hard-core PvPer, a "Carebear" is anyone who insists the game should be able to be played without ever risking PvP. They could never, ever be a Carebear. To a die-hard high sec industrialist, the "Carebear" is that sucker that got whacked by Goonswarm, and is now whining for a nerf on the forums. They could never, ever be a Carebear. To a persistent mission runner, the "Carebear" is that (censored) pirate that hangs out in low sec, attacking people in the middle of missions at no risk to themselves. They, themselves, could never, ever be a Carebear. To the low-sec-hardend pirate, a "Carebear" is anyone who spends all their time in high sec, avoiding areas that have the thrill of "actual risk versus reward" with themselves as the risk. They could never, ever be a Carebear. See? The truth is, a "Carebear" is a talking cartoon animal that originlly looked like a teddy bear of some kind, invented by a greeting card company and made into a children's TV cartoon.
k Rose Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate Aeon Group Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:11:00 - [70] Whats not to like about me? To enable image please go into your setting and check the box show images!
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:14:00 - [71] I loved that cartoon. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Esmenet Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:32:00 - [72] Edited by: Esmenet on 24/03/2008 02:32:57 Originally by: Cipher7 Sorry but BF2 pwns Eve, CS pwns Eve, Quake pws Eve and Halo pwns Eve. In fact let me just say categorically that FPS > MMORPG x 100 in every way from fun to skill to replay value. I like a bit of fps game now and again, but i've never played any fps game half as much as the mmorpgs i have liked. I've never managed to finish a solo fps as i get bored halfway through. Multiplayer can be fun and i've enjoyed a bit of quake, CS, BF2 etc but it usually dont last long before i get bored. The games that keep my interest are strategy games(not rts crap), rpgs and mmorpgs. Not sure what this has to do with the thread though.
Jack Jombardo The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:45:00 - [73] Originally by: Frug If people hate them, it's because they whine and don't understand that whining only makes people want to suicide/can flip them more. You mean like all these whining wannabe lowsec Rambos? "whuhuhu lowsec is sooo empty, can't find sheeps I can gang" <- Pirate carebare from your defination?
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:49:00 - [74] As long as there is no official definition of the word "carebear" then it doesnÆt really matter what you say it is since your definition is as valid (or invalid) as the next one. My personal opinion of a carebear is basically a risk averse player, not profession. Although some professions or activities automatically come with greater risks than other. The ultimate carebear, in my opinion, is the dedicated high-sec missionrunner/explorer whose gamefocus only/mainly involves NPC-content.
Jack Jombardo The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:59:00 - [75] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 24/03/2008 02:59:42 Originally by: Cpt Fina The ultimate carebear, in my opinion, is the dedicated high-sec missionrunner/explorer whose gamefocus only/mainly involves NPC-content. Some level 4 missions can be very dangures espezialy if you fly them to early. On the other side highsec ganging is far to save becouse a) you'll scan your target without risk b) can pick your fights very carefully c) will be refoundet after your ship-lose from CONCORD. So absolut NO risk! Same for lowsec "Pirates". a) they have all the combat-skills they need b) they pick there targets c) 99,99% of all fights they are perfectly PvP-fitted and use superior ships compared to there targets MINIMAL risk! And ganging Bargs/Exhumer/Hauler? absolut NO risk at all as they can't realy fight back! PvP players = much more carebears then any mission flyer from your defination!
Asuka Smith StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.03.24 03:00:00 - [76] A guy who only flies PVP if he has his 18 HAC gang with a cyno ship in case that solo BS turns out to be real nasty and they need a carrier to finish him off is a carebear.
Jack Jombardo The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.03.24 03:04:00 - [77] Originally by: Asuka Smith A guy who only flies PVP if he has his 18 HAC gang with a cyno ship in case that solo BS turns out to be real nasty and they need a carrier to finish him off is a carebear. following this => Goonswarms "yhaladid"-swarm == Cerabear-swarm ? most likely
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.03.24 03:30:00 - [78] Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 03:30:36 Originally by: Jack Jombardo Some level 4 missions can be very dangures espezialy if you fly them to early. Picking your nose can be dangerous too but if that's the most dangerous thing a man does all day I wouldn't exactly call him a daredevil. Risks are relative and high-sec missionrunning in an NPC-corp are, as I see it, the unquestionable least riskfilled professions in Eve. Yet the rewards are very competitive. Originally by: Jack Jombardo Same for lowsec "Pirates". a) they have all the combat-skills they need What are you saying? Having good skills for a chosen activity automatically makes it too safe? Or are you saying that pirates can reduce the risk of getting killed by training skills? If you mean the last one then I agree and I can't see a problem with that. Originally by: Jack Jombardo b) they pick there targets Yes, they often do. It's a way to reduce or enhance risk/fun. Originally by: Jack Jombardo c) 99,99% of all fights they are perfectly PvP-fitted and use superior ships compared to there targets MINIMAL risk! Have you any hard facts to back this up? I personally doubt that 9,999 out of 10,000 fights that pirates engage in have these both characteristics. Minimal risk? There's a tonload of risk-factors that comes into play when pirating, not only the ones you've mentioned. The mere fact that low-sec pirates usually live in low-sec and that anyone can engage them at will speaks for their willingness to accept risk. Originally by: Jack Jombardo And ganging Bargs/Exhumer/Hauler? absolut NO risk at all as they can't realy fight back! This has to do with pirating how? Killing miningbarges is one aspect of the profession not the sum of it. Just because the trader with billions of isk invested (put at risk) on the market buys a shuttle to examine a new regional market doesn't experience any risk when buying the shuttle, doesn't mean that trading as a profession is risk free. Originally by: Jack Jombardo PvP players = much more carebears then any mission flyer from your defination! Well, depends on your definition of carebear but with "risk averse" as a definition; the dedicated high sec missionrunner are very much more carebear than most if not all PvPers.
Jack Jombardo The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:14:00 - [79] where is the risk if you gang a mining Barg with your HAC? Where is the risk if you gang this hauler with your BS? nowhere! If insurence wouldn't be paid after a CONCORD kill then there would be risk. But with this payback you'll lose nothink even if all the transport goods get destroyed. And much less in lowsec or 0.0 as there isn't a CONCORD to kill you. So where is the risk? I can't see it anywhere.
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:32:00 - [80] Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 04:32:10 Originally by: Jack Jombardo where is the risk if you gang a mining Barg with your HAC? Where is the risk if you gang this hauler with your BS? nowhere! If insurence wouldn't be paid after a CONCORD kill then there would be risk. But with this payback you'll lose nothink even if all the transport goods get destroyed. And much less in lowsec or 0.0 as there isn't a CONCORD to kill you. So where is the risk? I can't see it anywhere. You seem to be referring to high-sec. I never argued about high-sec ganks being relatively safe, allthough they do risk revenge from people with killrights. Now, care to respond to the points I made in my post?
Venkul Mul Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.24 06:57:00 - [81] Originally by: Ruah Piskonit A carebear is someone who, more oftain then not, plays alone and runs CCP created content (missions, exploration, Cosmos, et al). They tend to dissain from conflict and fighting and rarely leave high sec space unless it is to run missions, do exploration, cosmos, et al. Although 'hate' is too strong a word, a lot of people dislike them because they belive CCP give the carebear too much protection. EvE is a very pvp oriented game. These days, it is commonly accepted that there are sevaral ways to do pvp (combat, trading, etc) but the carebear seeks to avoid all of these. People hate them because CCP will 'softain' the game (introduce Concorde, 'nurf' empire ganking, deepspace, wtz) and allow for people who don't agree with unconsentual pvp to live in the game and oftain make good ammount of money. What these people want is for the massive part of MMO be preserved along with the very nasty pvp aspect of the game. People fear that these values will be lost as CCP continues to cater to carebears. In a nutshell some people feel that EVE should be a First Person Shooter with spaceships some token mining/production. Practically StarCraft in space. Other prefer a more complex game where the economy and the production are complex aspects of the game and not add ons.
Polly Prissypantz Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.24 08:53:00 - [82] Everyone who's too busy posting on the forums to play the game are carebears. Move along, nothing to see here.
Asuka Smith StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.03.24 09:20:00 - [83] Mining is so zen, I do it to relax and just chat with my mates. Also mining never gets nerfed and the lag and the blobs and the etc never interfere with my fun. I just mine some ore and build some modules and it is more fun than I ever had shooting things.
Polly Prissypantz Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.24 09:29:00 - [84] In a nutshell: Simple-minded people are often openly hostile to what they don't understand. And a lot of PvP oriented players can't quite fathom how other players could possibly derive enjoyment (or at least, satisfaction) from activities that don't involve getting their kicks at someone elses expense.
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.24 09:35:00 - [85] Originally by: Darwin Duck Everybody whine when a new change affects their gameplay. Speak for yourself
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:11:00 - [86] Originally by: Cpt Fina As long as there is no official definition of the word "carebear" then it doesnÆt really matter what you say it is since your definition is as valid (or invalid) as the next one. Although there is no "official" definition, it's pretty easy to apply one just by looking at what a Carebear is, and where the term was originally used in gaming (PvE servers). Carebears are simply players who prefer not to kill eachother (risk-averse is an acceptable definition too). When I came to this game three years ago, "Carebearing" did not mean "going to whine on the forums to get things changed so my way of life in EVE becomes easier and everyone else suffers". It just meant going to make money on an empire alt or trading.
Arctur Ceti State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:18:00 - [87] Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 04:32:10 Originally by: Jack Jombardo where is the risk if you gang a mining Barg with your HAC? Where is the risk if you gang this hauler with your BS? nowhere! If insurence wouldn't be paid after a CONCORD kill then there would be risk. But with this payback you'll lose nothink even if all the transport goods get destroyed. And much less in lowsec or 0.0 as there isn't a CONCORD to kill you. So where is the risk? I can't see it anywhere. You seem to be referring to high-sec. I never argued about high-sec ganks being relatively safe, allthough they do risk revenge from people with killrights. Now, care to respond to the points I made in my post? so the risk is that a dedicated miner may seek revenge against you? that's the risk to the pirate?
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:32:00 - [88] Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 03:30:36 Originally by: Jack Jombardo Some level 4 missions can be very dangures espezialy if you fly them to early. Picking your nose can be dangerous too but if that's the most dangerous thing a man does all day I wouldn't exactly call him a daredevil. Risks are relative and high-sec missionrunning in an NPC-corp are, as I see it, the unquestionable least riskfilled professions in Eve. Yet the rewards are very competitive. Have you actually done an L4 lately? I did one last night that took 2 hours, and paid out a whopping 5 mil in payout, bounties and salvage. Whoohoo 2.5 mil an hour. I only gotta do it 100 more times to pay off my ship. In 0.0 I was ratting in a BC making 30 mil an hour haha. Oh yeah highsec mission running is the road to riches baby.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:34:00 - [89] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 03:30:36 Originally by: Jack Jombardo Some level 4 missions can be very dangures espezialy if you fly them to early. Picking your nose can be dangerous too but if that's the most dangerous thing a man does all day I wouldn't exactly call him a daredevil. Risks are relative and high-sec missionrunning in an NPC-corp are, as I see it, the unquestionable least riskfilled professions in Eve. Yet the rewards are very competitive. Have you actually done an L4 lately? I did one last night that took 2 hours, and paid out a whopping 5 mil in payout, bounties and salvage. Whoohoo 2.5 mil an hour. I only gotta do it 100 more times to pay off my ship. In 0.0 I was ratting in a BC making 30 mil an hour haha. Oh yeah highsec mission running is the road to riches baby. Are you claiming that mission is typical or usual? If so, I feel very clever by making 20M+ per hour of missioning. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Yugami Templar 8th Knights Hospitaller	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:38:00 - [90] Edited by: Yugami Templar on 24/03/2008 11:38:34 Ok Ive scanned thru the entire thread and didnt see the real meaning of "Carebear" or its history only alot of guessing as too its meaning. Heres the REAL history of the term Carebear: Many years ago before Everquest,WoW were even made their was a game Ultima Online. This was the worlds first Traditional MMO game. When the game first came out their were very very little rules or boundrys, the Game Devs had originaly thought the players would all form partys and go slay monsters. What happened instead was many people found a virtual world with no social boundrys too restrain them and they thrived on killing new players and stealing thier stuf. These players later came too be called Reds or "Player Killers" (PK). After awhile it became clear something had too be done too save their dwindling customer base as many players were sick of getting killed and robbed all the time, they decided too split the servers into 2 "Worlds". In one world PvP was allowed, on the other it was not. The PvP world serverside soon became a ghostland with most players fleeing too the safer side. The reds/pk's soon became very angry as they had nomore easy marks and most were not intrested in fighting each other or targets that could fight back. On the Ultima Online Forums many angry Reds started calling the other players (who had fled too safer grounds) names, one of the names was "Carebear" and this name is the one that stuck. Now the meaning has changed somewhat over the years depending the game and the player but the general meaning is somebody that does not want too engage in risk (item/money loss). Playing in Empire is somewhat "Carebear" territory since your not supposed too be able too attack other players but with EVE's game design its a grey area since anybody can be attacked anywere if the PK is willing too die. Thank You.
CRUSH BOSS BigMek Industries GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:41:00 - [91] Originally by: Decard Sune Edited by: Decard Sune on 23/03/2008 12:12:37 Carebear is a derogatory term used by those who feel that every player should be nothing mroe than a target for their pleasure. These individuals usually have no interest in anything but their own enjoyment, which is dervied primarialy from ruining the enjoyment of others. Basically a carebear is anyone who lacks the sociopathic tendancies of the pvp mindset. So now people that pvp are sociopaths ? To the OP, i can't speak for everyone, but alot of "players" like "carebears"; love "carebears" even. It's their happy happy joy joy ,almost childish like behavior to the game is what makes our "fun" much more enjoyable. Nine times out of ten when a PVP conflict takes place the losing pilot complements the other on his abilty to defeat him. Finish an engagement with a "carebear" and the responce is almost, ***ographic. I have many great eve-mails and copied local chat of profanity thrown at me, but still the "carebear"* has a special place in my heart. Oh; i do love the smell of burning fur in the morning We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE Don't troll in your signature please. -Hango
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:49:00 - [92] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 03:30:36 Originally by: Jack Jombardo Some level 4 missions can be very dangures espezialy if you fly them to early. Picking your nose can be dangerous too but if that's the most dangerous thing a man does all day I wouldn't exactly call him a daredevil. Risks are relative and high-sec missionrunning in an NPC-corp are, as I see it, the unquestionable least riskfilled professions in Eve. Yet the rewards are very competitive. Have you actually done an L4 lately? I did one last night that took 2 hours, and paid out a whopping 5 mil in payout, bounties and salvage. Whoohoo 2.5 mil an hour. I only gotta do it 100 more times to pay off my ship. In 0.0 I was ratting in a BC making 30 mil an hour haha. Oh yeah highsec mission running is the road to riches baby. Are you claiming that mission is typical or usual? If so, I feel very clever by making 20M+ per hour of missioning. Seems pretty typical for me, maybe I just have crappy luck with salvage. 20m+ an hour? Please hook me up with your agent. I'm pretty sure if you did the time/hour math diligently you would get a figure similar to mine. You know, taking a half hour to salvage, taking an hour to haul everything to sell, etc, the per hour rates approach minimum wage.
Jack Jombardo The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:50:00 - [93] Originally by: Yugami Templar The reds/pk's soon became very angry as they had nomore easy marks and most were not intrested in fighting each other or targets that could fight back. Um, sound like EvE . People who DO NOT like fair fights (called "Pirates" in EvE) start to whine becouse the causal playerbase try to avoid them.
Darius Brinn Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.03.24 19:08:00 - [94] Edited by: Darius Brinn on 24/03/2008 19:08:38 Well, from the newbie point of view, I am constantly surrounded by tremendously big and menacing ships everywhere I fly my modest stuff. I have never been one for hiding myself, and I AM competitive, but the most impressive thing I fly is a Vexor, T1 fitted, and a Retriever. Most pirates are more experienced. They're richer and have nastier, bigger stuff. And they go in groups. They don't look for a fair fight, but an easy kill. The likes of me are...carebears, I presume? EVE encourages (or at least allows) player competition. But there's a difference. Consequences for being a murderous ass are light, while the blow to your finances if you lose a fully loaded indy can be severe. A successful ganking can make up for a few failed attempts. A bit of ratting can get you your sec back to try again. When I played WoW, I felt insignificant also. Then I reached the level cap, and there was nobody potentially above me. I was more or less among equals. Not in EVE. In EVE, it's the pure combat pilot way or you're screwed. Forget trading, manufacturing or mining, or you're always in the hands of combat pilots. Somehow it feels right, as it's everybody's choice. But people trying to protect themselves from risk is what you pirates do, when you select easy prey and gang up on them, right? I won't lift an eyebrow if I ever lose a bunch of virtual polygons, for sure. Nor have I refrained from hauling through low sec. But you don't have to make things easier for pirates on purpose. There are some battles I cannot win, and those I have to avoid...for the moment.
Tippia School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.03.24 19:45:00 - [95] Originally by: CRUSH BOSS So now people that pvp are sociopaths ? PVPers? No. Gankbears? Yes.
Nyabinghi Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.03.24 19:57:00 - [96] Mature PvPers get a bad rep because for all the immature little gits who come into multiplayer games and basically act like brats to the displeasure of many. I'm pretty sure more so called "carebears" in EVE would embrace PVP if the PVP element in EVE wasn't overrun with such immaturity. Sometimes I think EVE shoudl have seperate servers, one for mature players...and then the kiddy table. ***
Annaphera The Green Machine	Posted - 2008.03.24 20:18:00 - [97] Originally by: Nyabinghi Mature PvPers get a bad rep because for all the immature little gits who come into multiplayer games and basically act like brats to the displeasure of many. I'm pretty sure more so called "carebears" in EVE would embrace PVP if the PVP element in EVE wasn't overrun with such immaturity. Sometimes I think EVE shoudl have seperate servers, one for mature players...and then the kiddy table. Wow - now THERE'S a good idea! (No sarcasm intended.)
Salliene Happy Unicorn Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.24 20:52:00 - [98] Now would be a good time for people to review Bartles Study on the "types" of players who inhabit MMOs. As you will see, an MMO such as EVE allows all sorts of players to inhabit a shared space. Unfortunately the playstyles of these people do not always happily overlap. There is nothing inherently wrong with carebears or with PVPers, it is just very difficult to put both of them in the same game without having to force one of them to sacrifice something. You all can spit and whine at each other for 10 more pages if you want, but it's nothing new and nothing in this thread is accomplishing anything, including this post. One Girls Journey through the EVE Universe
Scruffy Jed Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.24 21:01:00 - [99] People hate on empire miners because they are useless****gots. Thread over. Furthermore,
SiJira Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.24 21:03:00 - [100] why do people hate on pvpers? Trashed sig, Shark was here
I'mA Geezer Friends Of Derek	Posted - 2008.03.24 21:03:00 - [101] Scruffy Jed, have you been drinking junkies wee wee again?
Scruffy Jed Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.24 21:05:00 - [102] Originally by: I'mA Geezer Scruffy Jed, have you been drinking junkies wee wee again? MAYBVE I DON'T KNOW Furthermore,
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:04:00 - [103] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Cpt Fina As long as there is no official definition of the word "carebear" then it doesnÆt really matter what you say it is since your definition is as valid (or invalid) as the next one. Although there is no "official" definition, it's pretty easy to apply one just by looking at what a Carebear is, and where the term was originally used in gaming (PvE servers). Carebears are simply players who prefer not to kill eachother (risk-averse is an acceptable definition too). Alot of words has lost its original meaning and now implies something completely different. People who got access to a new english dictionary ought to check if it's in there. Originally by: Arctur Ceti so the risk is that a dedicated miner may seek revenge against you? Shocked that's the risk to the pirate? Correct. They also risk revenge from non-dedicated miners. Or a blob of dedicated miners acting together. Not saying that it's the only risk they face but one of them, and that one alone makes the profession riskier than the missioner-type i mentioned before. Originally by: Arctur Ceti Have you actually done an L4 lately? I did one last night that took 2 hours, and paid out a whopping 5 mil in payout, bounties and salvage. Whoohoo 2.5 mil an hour. I only gotta do it 100 more times to pay off my ship. In 0.0 I was ratting in a BC making 30 mil an hour haha. Oh yeah highsec mission running is the road to riches baby. Just because you can't figure out how to make missioning profitable doesn't mean that the majority of the gamecommunity doesn't either. Alot of 0,0-people have high-sec missionrunning alts to fund their PvP. This is totally wrong imo.
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:07:00 - [104] Originally by: Jack Jombardo Originally by: Yugami Templar text text Jack, are you going to respond to my post or are you going to continue to debate without answering arguments that you can't handle?
Pink Lemonade Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:20:00 - [105] People hate carebears/pirates two simple reasons really both of which are just part of human nature: 1) The desire to stereotype, so everyone from a particular group is immediately judged to follow the same cut. 2) The arrogant belief that your play style is superior to someone else's play style. How can anyone play the game in a way that doesn't make any sense (to you)? It is typically the more closed-minded self-centered individuals that make such judgments. Even though people say that what you do in game doesn't reflect your out of game personality, characters don't move and chat on their own and what any character says or does in game first originates in the head of the player sitting at the keyboard.
IDF187 Lucky Hydra Corp SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 09:25:00 - [106] Originally by: Lougra Originally by: IDF187 It just a simple question, why? Iam no carebear, I like a good fight, but what I also like is for my allianse carebears to build me a nice ship for much less then market, I love carebears they supply my blood thirsty ars. Has any1 thought of it that way, and perhaps stop hating on them? The problem is starting from you. Very obviously, you adopted the surename "carebear". That means, you accepted something that mostly started to separate pvpers from the rest. As it sounds to me, every time that this surename used, is to express a kind of disgust for miners, and it involves a kind of racism. You are free to be, anything you want to be. The most worst thing, is to be what others want YOU to be. As it seems, they have achieved it up to a point. \ Please dont put words in my mouth, just becuase u thinm carebears is a disgusting name, doesnt mean I do so as well, thus if you can logically think, is why I ask why hate them, but in such world of eve some people indeed do not have all the logic need to put 2 and 2 together. Ask yourself in a logical way, hmm this guy is saying dont hate carebears does he hate them? You need to eat more fish my friend and toss a few of CO Q 10's will helpl you brain activity. And next time think before you attak some1 in posts.
Jack Jombardo The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.03.25 10:24:00 - [107] Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 03:30:36 Originally by: Jack Jombardo Some level 4 missions can be very dangures espezialy if you fly them to early. Picking your nose can be dangerous too but if that's the most dangerous thing a man does all day I wouldn't exactly call him a daredevil. Risks are relative and high-sec missionrunning in an NPC-corp are, as I see it, the unquestionable least riskfilled professions in Eve. Yet the rewards are very competitive. If you fly level 4 Missions with a 10 million SP char and know every mission perfectly you still have the risk of losing all your loot (your main ISK) to salvage thiefs or to be traped by CCP like a friend how lost several ships becouse he got stuck into a strukture after a warpgate. Without thouse 10 million SP the risk is much higher if somethink went wrong (drone aggro, wrong trigger, bad timed scrambler). (well except Caldari Raven maybe, but there are Amarr, Minmatar and Galente players too wich defenitly need more then 1,5 M SP for level 4). Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Jack Jombardo Same for lowsec "Pirates". a) they have all the combat-skills they need What are you saying? Having good skills for a chosen activity automatically makes it too safe? Or are you saying that pirates can reduce the risk of getting killed by training skills? If you mean the last one then I agree and I can't see a problem with that. Attacking a pure miner/trader in his Itaron V is far to save, yes! Where is your risk while you do this? Do you REALY belive this Itaron V might be a danguer for you? Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Jack Jombardo b) they pick there targets Yes, they often do. It's a way to reduce or enhance risk/fun. Reduce the fun from this pore Trader and enhance his risk? Yes, right. If you don't pick your target with scanning it's your fault. Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Jack Jombardo c) 99,99% of all fights they are perfectly PvP-fitted and use superior ships compared to there targets MINIMAL risk! Have you any hard facts to back this up? I personally doubt that 9,999 out of 10,000 fights that pirates engage in have these both characteristics. Minimal risk? There's a tonload of risk-factors that comes into play when pirating, not only the ones you've mentioned. The mere fact that low-sec pirates usually live in low-sec and that anyone can engage them at will speaks for their willingness to accept risk. Since when is Jita lowsec? Ever flow from Jita to Amarr? EVERY gate you see this ***** Pirates wich DO NOT have any uncalulated risk! Originally by:** Cpt Fina Originally by: Jack Jombardo And ganging Bargs/Exhumer/Hauler? absolut NO risk at all as they can't realy fight back! This has to do with pirating how? Killing miningbarges is one aspect of the profession not the sum of it. Just because the trader with billions of isk invested (put at risk) on the market buys a shuttle to examine a new regional market doesn't experience any risk when buying the shuttle, doesn't mean that trading as a profession is risk free. Well, Pirates don't fight for fun right (it's might a side effect)? They fight to get bounts for low risk right? Attacking other (compareble) fighting ships does not offer much bounty for the relativ high risk right? - buy BS, fitt it, insure it - sit at any gate between Jita and other Tradehub, scan all passbyes - blob valuble one - get insurence back after CONCORD blobed you <- BIG MISTAKE @CCP!!!!! why the hell does a Outlaw gets paid for his doing?? - loot with your hauler alt <- second BIG MISTAKE @CCP!!! it's stealing!! This alt should be CONCORDed instantly too!! Posbile solution: - ALL negativ secure chars can be hunted and killed WITHOUT beeing protected by CONCORD (American headhunters). - killed from CONCORD no insurence will be paid! - looting yellow frecks will get you CONCORDed in highsec!
Siren Call Dragon Highlords Imorral Dragons	Posted - 2008.03.25 11:03:00 - [108] I think its because they whine and moan. This makes them lose the respect of us PvPers. If i killed a "carebear" and they said "good job you got me", i wouldn't dislike them so much. However the usual response is something along the lines of "what was the point in that??!!!???, that was all i had etc etc". Saying that though it is bloody funny. Also i think carebears take this game, emphasis on the word game, way to seriously. Also this makes them pretty annoying.
phobiasa Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.25 11:31:00 - [109] that 's crazy! ratting , minning and mission-running are all mindless******, but there are always men who view these actions as the most fun in EVE ----------DOnt use dots------------- Very happy surprised shocked confused mad Razz
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.25 11:55:00 - [110] Unless you're a pirate you have no right to call yourself a PvPer. If you rat for cash then you're a professional PvE'er.

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