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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 17:57:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 18:00:22 I would like to change all ships so there is one slot on all of them where you can fit a scrambler or disruptor without using up a high, mid or low slot on your ship.
-A scrambler or disruptor fitted here wont take up any cpu nor grid. If it did there wouldnt be any point to this change. Bare with me.
-If you want more then one you can fit them in the mids but the point is that every ship should be able to fit one scrambler/disruptor without any penalty except for the cost of the module purchase.
What would this change solve?
-Shield tanking minmatar ships would have easier to fit tackle, like sleipnir.
-Shield tanking caldari ships would have easier to fit tackle, the drake and raven.
-3 midslot amarr combat ships would have easier to fit tackle, like the absolution.
-Ships like coercer and retribution (with only 1 mid) would be able to fit propulsion and tackle.
-Ratting or mission running ships would also pose a threat to potential aggressors because they might be able to be force to fight to the end.
-The scrambling ability is a very crucial part of any combat ship and it should always be present on all ships.
Discuss? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:08:00 -
[2]
If I may ask, why a whole slot category just for warp scramblers/disruptors? Why not stasis webs, cap boosters, MWDs/ABs, or any other 'necessary' PvP gear? -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:11:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 18:11:21 Because webs and everything else is useless if you cant keep your opponent where he is and giving slots to more then just this would break ship balances. Caldari and T2 minmatar would totally own if all these modules went into the magic slots. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Annowyn
Clan'Destine
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:11:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Annowyn on 24/03/2008 18:11:25
Originally by: Bronson Hughes If I may ask, why a whole slot category just for warp scramblers/disruptors? Why not stasis webs, cap boosters, MWDs/ABs, or any other 'necessary' PvP gear?
Because you MUST have a point to keep the other ship there. Everything else just helps maintain the fight.
To Lyria. Yeah I could get behind that.
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Drinian Cole
The Knights of the New Republic Giant Space Amoeba
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:12:00 -
[5]
I don't think it should always be present on all ships. Ships like interceptors effectively base their whole existence around the ability to scramble. Having the choice gives you options.
Eliminating the need to choose whether to bring a scrambler would just be one step towards every gang being the same. Giving every ship one brings down the options.
Fitting ships is give and take. You want the give of warp scrambling without the take of cap, pg & cpu.
That makes you a beggar.
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Kay Rissa
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:12:00 -
[6]
I agree with Lyria, it would make life much easier for many ships, even if this "ew utility slot" would use cpu and pg
Proud member of RTSQ
ps: i dont like to kill innocent ppl, so if i killed u, u rnt innocent
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Annowyn
Clan'Destine
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:13:00 -
[7]
We could just go with not being able to warp if someone is engaging you. Seems to be the way CCP wants to go any way.
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Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:13:00 -
[8]
And make the game less challenging? WHY? Where is the fun in that? Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit. |
Merdaneth
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes If I may ask, why a whole slot category just for warp scramblers/disruptors? Why not stasis webs, cap boosters, MWDs/ABs, or any other 'necessary' PvP gear?
The problem is indeed essentially the existence of 'neccessary' PvP gear. Scramblers are the worst of the offenders among this. MWD, web and then cap booster follow.
As soon as a module starts to become 'necessary', there is no longer a real choice to fit it, and hence no reason why the module shouldn't be integrated. 95% of people in EVE would probably not notice any difference if their inty suddenly came equipped with an MWD and had one less mid slot. That's a bad thing for a game IMO. Choices should be real choices. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Drinian Cole I don't think it should always be present on all ships. Ships like interceptors effectively base their whole existence around the ability to scramble. Having the choice gives you options.
Eliminating the need to choose whether to bring a scrambler would just be one step towards every gang being the same. Giving every ship one brings down the options.
Fitting ships is give and take. You want the give of warp scrambling without the take of cap, pg & cpu.
That makes you a beggar.
Did you read my whole post? This can solve alot of problems.
Interceptors intercept. Thats what they do. The ability to put points on enemies can be done by EVERY combat ship in eve. Interceptors just do it faster and at better range. This is no problem nor reason to disagree.
Beggar? mkay. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:17:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 18:17:05
Originally by: Megan Maynard And make the game less challenging? WHY? Where is the fun in that?
Actually right now the game is less challenging. Again, did you read my post or just read the first line.
Do you think its less challenging that a pirate now can be scrambled by the ratting/missioning ship he is attacking?
Do you think its less challening that a retribution can fit mwd + point so you cant just warp away?
It actually the other way around. This change would give more fights and it would make eve MORE fun. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Trevor Warps
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:18:00 -
[12]
Hai,
Me wants dedicated slots for my gunz so I can cram more stuffz in my highz to pwn more, pwease...
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 24/03/2008 18:20:34
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 18:11:21 Because webs and everything else is useless if you cant keep your opponent where he is
Right, and if you can't web them they can just run away. Or, you would run your MWD to keep up with them but not forever without a Cap Booster unless you're a frigate.
So, you see, points are no more or less essential than any other 'standard' PvP gear.
What's more important to a car, the engine or the lugnuts that hold the wheels on? Technically neither since you need both for the car to function.
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 18:11:21 Caldari and T2 minmatar would totally own if all these modules went into the magic slots.
I agree completely, nor was I suggesting that they should. I was trying to point out the fallacy in only allowing a single module to have its own type of slot while not allowing others.
Since it doesn't make sense to only allow points to occupy this new type of slot, nor does it make sense to me to allow all 'standard' PvP to occupy this new type of slot, it doesn't make sense to introduce this new type of slot.
At least not to me. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trevor Warps Hai,
Me wants dedicated slots for my gunz so I can cram more stuffz in my highz to pwn more, pwease...
Logic fail. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Trevor Warps
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Logic fail.
Oh now you made me laugh.
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Right, and if you can't web them they can just run away. Or, you would run your MWD to keep up with them but not forever without a Cap Booster unless you're a frigate.
So, you see, points are no more essential than any other 'standard' PvP gear.
This isnt nessesarily true.
BS vs BS or any other similarly sized ships dont always have to web eachother to get a kill.
A ratting ship could have a web in its mid.
A ship like retribution wouldnt need a web anyway.
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Since it doesn't make sense to only allow points to occupy this new type of slot, nor does it make sense to me to allow all 'standard' PvP to occupy this new type of slot, it doesn't make sense to introduce this new type of slot
But it does make sense and I couldnt see where in your post you explain why it doesnt or I missed it somehow. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Drinian Cole
The Knights of the New Republic Giant Space Amoeba
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:23:00 -
[17]
the mission runner not fitting a scrambler to his ship is his choice. If he is missioning somewhere where a pirate might attack him, and he wants to be able to fight back, then perhaps he should fit a scrambler.
You want to remove some of the choice from the game. By doing that you make the game easier because you have to think less when you fit your ship. That makes the game less challenging. Removing scramblers is one less item to worry about in cap management. That makes the game less challenging. You are making every ships capabilities more the same. That makes the game less challenging.
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Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/03/2008 18:17:05
Originally by: Megan Maynard And make the game less challenging? WHY? Where is the fun in that?
Actually right now the game is less challenging. Again, did you read my post or just read the first line.
Do you think its less challenging that a pirate now can be scrambled by the ratting/missioning ship he is attacking?
Do you think its less challening that a retribution can fit mwd + point so you cant just warp away?
It actually the other way around. This change would give more fights and it would make eve MORE fun.
Yeah, I do. It's called a challenge. One more mid slot on every ship would do more then you are claiming, and I don't think you can hypothesize every single resultant in doing so.
Slot lay outs would be borked, and the game would become less fun. Mission runners are all ready hard to catch without going all out for a scanning alt. And really, learning to watch local and your scanner is all you need to avoid getting ganked.
Adding a scram point to every ship and keeping the mid slot layout is not a good balance in every way.
And repeating, "did you read my post or just read the first line." without a question mark to make people look stupid in your pet post isn't a good way to get your point across.
Some ships just aren't good for tackling, that is part of the game, and the fun. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit. |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Logic fail.
Oh now you made me laugh.
Thats good isnt it? I got some cookies here for you aswell -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Dingi223
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:26:00 -
[20]
Personally I think it's a poor idea.
You are basically saying that all ships should get a free slot, to fit a free module (and you chose those 2 and ignore the rest). This impact will be greater on ships with fewer mids and higher lows, than the alternative (i.e. armor tankers), and create imbalance.
In addition, the creation of the new tracking disruptor (with no counter for falloff) would allow every ship to effectively neutralise Minmatar guns (unless we fit monstrous rigs that doesn't counter it), for *free*. So wait, an unbonused, free-to-fit module, that is uncounterable by Minmatar short of 3 rigs that don't have free slots.
Well, needless to say, I shall not go on.
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:27:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Drinian Cole the mission runner not fitting a scrambler to his ship is his choice. If he is missioning somewhere where a pirate might attack him, and he wants to be able to fight back, then perhaps he should fit a scrambler.
You know thats not going to happen. No mission runner is fitting scrambler no matter where he is. Thats not the issue. Why not make it easier to get tackled. It forces more fights and it fixes alot of ships.
I find that more fun and challenging. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Trevor Warps
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Thats good isnt it? I got some cookies here for you aswell
Damn right, laughing is good. I like cookies too, i'd have one please.
But i'll pass on the ew utility. It is so wrong regarding everything ccp did to balance everything that I just can't be hassled to argue. Real sorry if it comes out 'I know better and just won't tell' ... but yeah.
But I can say that I think you would cry If you meet those gank boats with the extra slot and cpu freed by the scram gone. Game would need rebalacing, changing every single ship. Fittings totally changing ... might as well play a new game.
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Perfect Diamond
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:29:00 -
[23]
Two words.
Caldari Whine Amarr is the tank OR gank race. Not the tank and gank race. |
Trevor Warps
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I find that more fun and challenging.
The challenge you are looking for is in game already, but you didn't see it.
It is called : Fittings
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
And repeating, "did you read my post or just read the first line." without a question mark to make people look stupid in your pet post isn't a good way to get your point across.
Oh no, I forgot a question mark. You cant blame me for wondering if you read all the solutions it would bring when you dont explain how youre going to fix those problems. I mean do you think we could live without all the solutions listed? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Perfect Diamond Two words.
Caldari Whine
But Im not caldari, am I. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I find that more fun and challenging.
The challenge you are looking for is in game already, but you didn't see it.
It is called : Fittings
Yeah and fittings and slots are broken in eve. Id like to see you fit a point on a ship with 1 mid slot and then keep that point on anything except a slow indy. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer [b]I would like to change all ships
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer -The scrambling ability is a very crucial part of any combat ship and it should always be present on all ships.
(italics added by me)
Not sure if this got added or I missed it, but this is completely wrong. First off, you're suggesting the change to all ships, yet state here that the new slot type is only crucial for combat ships; does it make much sense to add this extra slot to haulers or miners?. People not fitting for PvE generally do not fit points, and there are likely far more PvE fit ships in EvE than there are PvP fit ships. Fitting a point means that you have to give up something else. It's just the same as any other module in EvE.
Make a choice, live with the consequences. That's EvE. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Trevor Warps
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:36:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I find that more fun and challenging.
The challenge you are looking for is in game already, but you didn't see it.
It is called : Fittings
Yeah and fittings and slots are broken in eve. Id like to see you fit a point on a ship with 1 mid slot and then keep that point on anything except a slow indy.
Okay.
You can also take a school bus and try to fit it for racing ... tell me how you compare to Formula ones.
Ok I'm out, I said I would'nt argue this ... It's sort of fun tho !
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Lyria Skydancer
Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:36:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer [b]I would like to change all ships
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer -The scrambling ability is a very crucial part of any combat ship and it should always be present on all ships.
(italics added by me)
Not sure if this got added or I missed it, but this is completely wrong. First off, you're suggesting the change to all ships, yet state here that the new slot type is only crucial for combat ships; does it make much sense to add this extra slot to haulers or miners?. People not fitting for PvE generally do not fit points, and there are likely far more PvE fit ships in EvE than there are PvP fit ships. Fitting a point means that you have to give up something else. It's just the same as any other module in EvE.
Make a choice, live with the consequences. That's EvE.
Ofcourse I dont mean haulers.
Why not give it inherently for all combat ships? Every combat ship NEEDS it. Eve has too many must have modules. It giving less choice and less fun. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II |
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