Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Laela Mayhem
Unwakeable Nightmare
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 00:12:00 -
[1]
I'd like to ask for a quick evaluation by those who are more experienced in moon mining than I, what is the fewest number of towers it would take to fully react the 4 moons below into Sylramic Fibers and Crystalline Carbonite? I will be setting up two reactors for each of the complex materials to fully use up all the output of the simple(medium) reactors.
So, what would you say is the fewest number of towers with the moons below where I could run those two reactions fully?(needing 4 simple and 4 complex reactors)
Moon 1: Chromium Moon 2: Platinum & Hydrocarbons Moon 3: Cadmium & Silicates Moon 4: Cobalt & evap deposits & Silicates
I'm certainly not looking for someone to go through all the effort to fully do the layouts on the towers. Just give me an idea of the mix of towers I'd need and I can take it from there.(I really suck at this and have only been able to get it work if I go with 5 large and a small. I'm pretty sure it can be done with fewer)
|
Cheru'bael
Ordo Ministorum
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 00:32:00 -
[2]
well, i went your route. total n00b and all. right off the bat you'll want at least a few pilots with anchoring lvl5 in order for starbase gunnery (which turns your guns from ********ly useless to a decent support for any rescue fleet you can whistle up)
it's low sec. expect carriers at the very least to be your primary concern. Expect the casual blob of BS to be your least concern. If you outfit your towers correctly, you'll scare off the latter, and if you're being attacked by capitals nothing stands a chance if someone's prepared to grind through the utter boredom of POS killing, unless you can have that cavalry in the nick of time.
that said, welcome to it. First off, CALDARI TOWERS FTW. well, at least the large sized ones. Faction towers cost in excess of 750m isk. Your first priority is to locate your closest ice field of the appropriate type.
shadow control tower mediums are perfect for the simple reaction plus 2 moon mining modules. bonus for the cargo. good gun bonus too. DAMNED CHEAP faction guns as well.
you can get away with small gallente towers even for basic mining and nothing else.
Let's see...hmmmm...That ice field? unless you have access to the rarer types of ice, your biggest headache will be the liquid ozone. really. everything else is a joke (if you enjoy ice mining that is)
The large caldari tower should be your only choice for moon mining and complex reactions. yeah, i know it suckages for the defense, but really, if someone wants to kill your tower it'll fall eventually to a big enough fleet.
So, get yourself a large caldari tower (preferably two)...and if you can splurge for the faction stuff DO IT!
and missiles are stupid for defense. mix it out with projectiles...as much as you can spare. the name of the game is keeping them guessing what damage type they'll be tanking.
After that, it's simply combing the contracts for affordable deals on faction structures...and after the huge expense of the towers, anything else is chump change.
if you can get 2 caldari large towers you can squeeze in a complex dual set of complex and simple reactors that'll keep you happy in isk 24/7
oh, and if you're a smacktard who's simply going to wander in somewhere and plunk down a tower, without casing the joint and asking questions like ("gee, i wonder why these moons i found are empty") then nothing i can say will prevent you from merely wasting some isk in the stupidest manner imaginable. =)
___________________________________________ Ordo Ministorum (backup) |
Cheru'bael
Ordo Ministorum
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 00:38:00 -
[3]
yer. so short answer is 4 large caldari gives you 4 complex plus 4 simples.
*shrug* i myself got a large amarr tower. it's outfitted really mean now and looks very impressive. course, it SUCKS for efficient moon mining, but i have to make do with what i have. currently i have to use a medium gallente and a small gallente just to keep my amarr tower happy (but that's sorta gimped, ain't it?)
___________________________________________ Ordo Ministorum (backup) |
Polly Prissypantz
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 01:08:00 -
[4]
First off, check the market value. Most of these moon minerals and reactions really aren't worth the investment when you look at how much capital outlay it will require compared to how much ISK profit you'll generate per week once you factor in fuel and logistics (rememeber time = money).
If you're still hellbent on punishing yourself:
Using just Large Gallente Towers, you can put 1 complex (plus silos) per tower or 2 simples (plus silos) per tower. If you sacrifice guns you can probably get 1 complex and 1 simple per tower. CPU is your limiting factor. Caldari Towers have more CPU, but they don't get the silo bonus and the extra CPU isn't all that much, so once you include silos you still can't get 2 complex on a Caldari tower.
Now I CBF factoring in your mining arrays... So you could probably do a bit of silo/mining array juggling (they use the same CPU and you don't need an input silo if you link the mining array right up to the simple reactor).
So... You could probably do it with 6 Large Gallente Towers.
Now, you're looking at about 500m ISK per tower to set it up (not counting initial fuel costs, which is about another 200m per month, less if you have sov bonus). I put your raw moon min value at around 93m per week (using Jita prices from a few days ago). I put your final complex output at about... 118x2 + 134x2 (504m) per week. Minus 50m fuel per tower per week (I'm being generous, it's more like 60m before sov bonuses). So that's... 300m fuel. You'll be lucky to pull 204m profit a week without factoroing in time spent fueling/filling/emptying the towers.
So... 3b tower investment. 300m a week fuel. For 504m a week return.
Now, for the record I haven't set up my own towers. If my figures are wildly off I'm happy to be corrected. I've been watching the market for several weeks and have run the figures, but due to the crap margins involved (unless you're doing Ferrogel/Fermionic Condensates) it really doesn't seem worth it unless you're taking those moons for other reasons (IE: To hold sov systems).
|
Polly Prissypantz
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 01:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Polly Prissypantz on 27/03/2008 01:14:41
Originally by: Cheru'bael yer. so short answer is 4 large caldari gives you 4 complex plus 4 simples.
Actually yeah... Even though I mentioned it myself that you could probably do 1 complex and 1 simple per tower... I didn't factor that in for my final tower count...
So yeah, you could probably do it with 4 large towers. Even Gallente could probably do it although it would be a really... Really tight squeeze.
Post edit: Hmmm nope, you'd definitely need Caldari to do it with 4 towers. Then you get to empty the silos twice a week instead of once a week. =(
|
Laela Mayhem
Unwakeable Nightmare
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 02:07:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Laela Mayhem on 27/03/2008 02:15:12 Thank you all for the responses. The problem I've been running into with using 4 larges to run 1 simple and 1 complex is that I don't have enough cpu left over to run more than one moon harvester along with all the silos needed that are needed to keep all the flows moving. I can do that on the one moon where I only need to mine one material. For the moons where I have to harvest 2 or 3 materials, there simply isn't enough cpu to run all the miners, a complex reactor, a simple reactor, and all the silos needed. And thats even using Caldari large. I am going to have to drop some additional towers on moon/s where I don't need the materials just to make this work. What I'm trying to figure out is the most efficient way to do this.
For a little more background. These towers are in 0.0 in relatively safe space, fairly far off from our nearest hostiles. I'm an alt of character in a major alliance. I will put some guns on them but I don't have to worry about blobs showing up to take them on. If these towers come under a real attack, I'll have more things to worry than protecting my moon mining interests as that means our space is being invaded. These towers will be a low priority for anyone coming into the area where they are located. Before my moon towers are dealt with, whoever is invading is going to take care of the station systems and towers that are maintaining sov in them. Basically like I said, by the time my moon towers are being shot, we'll have already lost Sov in the station systems and there won't be much I can do to save the towers anyway. They'll just be fit with enough guns to scare off the random small gankers who move quickly through the system. The guns use powergrid anyway. I have plenty of that to spare on the towers and can fit what I need easily. Its the cpu thats my real limiting factor for the moon mining mods.
I really am stumped though as to the most efficient way to do this. I know I can just drop 5 large and maybe a small or medium and make it work. Something tells me though that there is a more efficient layout of towers that will make it all work.
|
Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 06:44:00 -
[7]
Ok, you need another hydrocarbons silicates moon they shouldn't be too hard to find.
This is 'the best' way to do this.
Shadow/Gallente towers, emptying once every 8 days 8 hours.
Moon 4: 3 harvesters, 1 silo as input, 2 simple reactors, 2 silos as output > makes Crystallite Alloy and Ceramic Powder
New Moon: 2 harvesters (hydro/silicates) 2 silos as inputs (chromium/platinum) > makes hexite and carbon polymers
Moon 1: large tower(gallente/shadow), harvester+silo (for the chromium), 4-5 silos (2 input, 2-3 output) 1 reactor Moon 2: as above Moon 3: as above Any other moon that has any single metal worth mining as above.
So it's 6 towers, but it only requires emptying every 8 days.
If you really want you can knock a tower or two off using caldari towers with coupling arrays, but you probably have to empty those daily. :\ blegh.
|
Laura Steel
The Chaotic Order Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:39:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Laura Steel on 27/03/2008 11:45:02 Moon 1: Chromium Moon 2: Platinum & Hydrocarbons Moon 3: Cadmium & Silicates Moon 4: Cobalt & evap deposits & Silicates
Assume all Towers are Large Caldari.
Moon 1: [(Harvester)+(Silo(Platinum))]=>(Simple Reactor)=>[(Silo(to collect excess))+(Silo(Second Simple)]=>(Complex Reactor)=>(Silo) This Tower needs to be supplied with Platinum and Ceramic powder(see below)
Moon 2: [(Harvester)+(Silo(Silicates))]=>(Simple Reactor)=>(Silo)--Moons 3 and 4. [(Silo(Excess Hexite))+(Silo(Excess Ceramic Powder))]=>(Complex Reactor)=>(Silo) You will need to buy in Platinum, it is insignificant compared to the profit of 4 complex reactions.
Moon 3: [(Harvester)+(Silo(Cobalt)]=>(Simple Reactor)=>[(Silo(to collect excess))+(Silo(Second SImple))]=>(Complex Reactor)=>(Silo) Not Enough CPU to mine Silicates, either buy it or use a small control tower to mine it(its very common). Check costs of either option first.
Moon 4: [(Harvester)+(Harvester)]=>(Simple Reactor)=>(Silo)--Moons 1 and 2. [(Silo(excess Carbon Polymer))+(Silo(excess Crystalite Alloy))]=>(Complex Reactor)=>(Silo) Not Enough CPU to mine Cobalt, same choices that you had with Silicates.
If you could find a moon that had the 3 minerals you need you could mine them all with a Medium Caldari Tower. Its unlikely, but you may find a moon with 2 of them.
----
|
Daqinson
The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:55:00 -
[9]
We do the same thing. But I go about it in a different way. I can set up 2 harvesters on each tower, and I have 2 large towers. I mine all the minerals for roughly 1 month. Then I continue to mine while I use a simple reactor to mix the minerals into simple reactions. Then offline the harvesters and gun up while you mix the complex reactions at the towers.
You will need to offline the harvesters to get the grid and cpu needed.
so like this
1 Large True Sansha Tower 2 Harvesters - 2 Silos 1 Complex reactor 1 Simple reactor -3 Silos 1 Corp Hanger Array *Rest in Guns and webs :)
As stated above you should be able to keep everything anchored and online only what you need, minimizing fuel costs for heavy water and the other one which escapes my memory right now, and give yourself ample protection if you need it.
If your 4 moons are actually 2 moons and each moon has 2 minerals on it, then you are lucky... if not then the rest are correct when they say that you will need 4 large towers, and possibly 1 more tower DEATHSTAR it and put a ship hanger and a corp storage array thingie to store all your reactions until you can get them the hell out of nulsec.
Just my opinion though. |
Laela Mayhem
Unwakeable Nightmare
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 16:37:00 -
[10]
Thank you Lord Fitz. I enjoy your replies to the moon mining threads as you always come up with a solution that reduces the amount of effort needed to maintain the chain. I appreciate you taking the time to look overy my situation and to find a solution that gives me the 8 day silo empty times.
Thank you Laura and Daquinson for taking the time to offer layouts as well. Those are both interesting approaches to running chains that I hadn't even considered.(buying a raw material off the market and plugging it in without mining for it or multiutilizing a tower by onlining/offlining mods). Those ideas certainly give me something new to think about as I decide on a final layout for these 2 chains.
|
|
Kahmlir
Solstice Systems Development Concourse Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2008.03.27 20:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lord Fitz So it's 6 towers, but it only requires emptying every 8 days.
actually its less. he would have to empty some silo's every 3 days or so. if he is making Crystalline carbonide that makes 10,000 units per hour or 240k per day.
The silo's on a gallente tower can hold 800k. so 800k/240k = 3.333...
do you would have to empty those 2 silos every 3 days or so.
|
Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.03.28 05:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kahmlir
Originally by: Lord Fitz So it's 6 towers, but it only requires emptying every 8 days.
actually its less. he would have to empty some silo's every 3 days or so. if he is making Crystalline carbonide that makes 10,000 units per hour or 240k per day.
The silo's on a gallente tower can hold 800k. so 800k/240k = 3.333...
do you would have to empty those 2 silos every 3 days or so.
Crystalline Carbonide, 10,000 units/hr = 500m3 = 80 hours per silo(gallente), 2 silos = 160 hours, 3 = 240. You can see I allowed for 3 output silos, as well as a single miner and silo. You only have to empty the complex reactions every 10 days.
The bottleneck is the simple reactions, as on a gallente tower you can only fit 1 output silo for each simple reaction (you could fit a second for one of the two reactions but there's not much point in that, you could put a few coupling arrays on I guess). So that's 40,000m3/200m3/hr = 200 hours = 8 days 8 hours ;)
|
Kahmlir
Solstice Systems Development Concourse Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2008.03.28 05:50:00 -
[13]
ok so i may learn something.
can you set the complex reactor to output to 2 different silo's? (sounds like yes)
and how does it work than... does half of the product go into each silo or does it fill one than fill another...
Or (again still kinda noobish) do you link the first silo to the second?
|
Lord Fitz
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.03.28 08:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kahmlir ok so i may learn something.
can you set the complex reactor to output to 2 different silo's?
You set the reactor > silo 1 > silo 2 > silo 3 in a chain just like you would coupling arrays (which are really just small slios). The material flows into silo 3 until it fills, then silo 2, then silo 1.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |