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mrs stroppy
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.04.08 02:56:00 -
[1]
Just a quick question regarding these mods. I have noticed that the price of the meta 4 ecm mods are considerably lower than the t2 varients, yet from what I gather, they are actually equal to the t2 mods in strength and are also much easier on fittings and cap usage.
Why is it that across all racial types (inc multis) and across the regions I have checked, they are considerably lower in price?
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.04.08 03:14:00 -
[2]
Only reason I can think of is because they are more expensive to make.
Improve Market Competition! |
Nummb
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Posted - 2008.04.08 03:56:00 -
[3]
Is the *shock and awe* a "Bushism" taken from the vocab of the President of America? Kinda like the war is over?
Originally by: Ambrose Bierce Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum (I think that I think, therefore I think that I am.)
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mrs stroppy
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Posted - 2008.04.08 04:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 08/04/2008 03:15:33 Only reason I can think of is because they are more expensive to make.
EDIT: *Gasp* or is it the market manipulations of Shadarle? *shock and awe*
?
Thats not really an answer
Perhaps I should rephrase,
Why are ecm t1 named mods (meta 4 lvl) LESS expensive than the t2 ecm mods when they are superior? Why do people buy the t2 modules when they can get better use out of the t1 named mods?
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.04.08 04:22:00 -
[5]
Quote: Why are ecm t1 named mods (meta 4 lvl) LESS expensive than the t2 ecm mods when they are superior?
Once again, because they cost less to make is all I can think of. If the price resulting from supply/demand of meta-4 ECM is less than the cost of the T2 variant, even if the meta-4 variant is better, it won't make people making the T2 variant sell below-cost.
Improve Market Competition! |
mrs stroppy
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.04.08 04:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Quote: Why are ecm t1 named mods (meta 4 lvl) LESS expensive than the t2 ecm mods when they are superior?
Once again, because they cost less to make is all I can think of. If the price resulting from supply/demand of meta-4 ECM is less than the cost of the T2 variant, even if the meta-4 variant is better, it won't make people making the T2 variant sell below-cost.
Can you please tell me the location where I can buy a named bpo or even bpc of a t1 NAMED mod so I too can "make/produce" them?
They cannot be made. They are dropped from NPC's. Therefore the people selling them are selling them BELOW their value as the vast majority of meta 4 NAMED t1 mods are sold at either par or above t2 prices.
Why is the ecm mods different? I just dont understand it. It seems too vast for market manipulation. I noticed the ecm multis variation is much less than the racials.
Why would people be buying the t2 products is really what I suppose im asking...
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Random Elite
Immortalis Inc. space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.04.08 04:40:00 -
[7]
maybe the t1 named ones just drop in a high enough amount that competition is driving there prices down?
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2008.04.08 04:52:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 08/04/2008 04:54:54
Quote:
Can you please tell me the location where I can buy a named bpo or even bpc of a t1 NAMED mod so I too can "make/produce" them?
They cannot be made. They are dropped from NPC's. Therefore the people selling them are selling them BELOW their value as the vast majority of meta 4 NAMED t1 mods are sold at either par or above t2 prices.
You're misreading what I'm saying. Just because they're "better" doesn't straight away mean they'll be worth more. A piece of equipment may well be inferior, it doesn't stop it selling at at-least a marginal profit. If it didn't, it'd be bought up and reprocessed because it's sold for less than it's opportunity cost.
Quote: Why would people be buying the t2 products is really what I suppose im asking...
Because they are silly? There's plenty of examples of this out there. +3 implants were worth more than +4 at one point iirc.
EDIT:
Quote: maybe the t1 named ones just drop in a high enough amount that competition is driving there prices down?
Precisely what I'm saying more verbosely. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Improve Market Competition! |
MilowFV
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Posted - 2008.04.08 05:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: MilowFV on 08/04/2008 05:02:03 So late to post for some reason I post a good hour after the fact and sense I didnt add anything that wasnt already covered when I got around to hiting the key I just removed it.
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Shakuul
Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.04.08 07:00:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs You're misreading what I'm saying. Just because they're "better" doesn't straight away mean they'll be worth more. A piece of equipment may well be inferior, it doesn't stop it selling at at-least a marginal profit. If it didn't, it'd be bought up and reprocessed because it's sold for less than it's opportunity cost.
Assuming the OP is accurate and the T1 meta 4s are STRICTLY BETTER (lower fitting, lower skill reqs) then there is no reason why any rational person with decent game knowledge would ever purchase the T2 version at a higher price. So either the explanation is 1) ignorance 2) irrationality or 3) maybe they like having the II after their item name, even if they know its worse?
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Inertial
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Posted - 2008.04.08 07:10:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Inertial on 08/04/2008 07:12:33 There is one reasons to fit ECM II.
1. You can always get a supply of ECM II, unlike the best named, which is dependant on farmers.
This means that 0.0 allinces and pirate corps might very well have T2 production running. It is the same with rolled tungsten vs. T2 plates.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Selene D'Celeste
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Posted - 2008.04.08 07:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shakuul Assuming the OP is accurate and the T1 meta 4s are STRICTLY BETTER (lower fitting, lower skill reqs) then there is no reason why any rational person with decent game knowledge would ever purchase the T2 version at a higher price. So either the explanation is 1) ignorance 2) irrationality or 3) maybe they like having the II after their item name, even if they know its worse?
I saw this behavior once for about a month on some Beta shield mod, because the attributes had changed in a patch and it took a while for people to realize that it was strictly better than the T2 version. God that was a beautiful item. http://www.eve-bank.netPlease visit your user settings to re-enable images.[/url] |
mrs stroppy
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.04.08 08:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Shakuul
Assuming the OP is accurate and the T1 meta 4s are STRICTLY BETTER (lower fitting, lower skill reqs) then there is no reason why any rational person with decent game knowledge would ever purchase the T2 version at a higher price. So either the explanation is 1) ignorance 2) irrationality or 3) maybe they like having the II after their item name, even if they know its worse?
From what I can tell these must be the only explanations.
The idea that it could be due to availiability doesnt stand up either really, as these are empire regions I am talking about, including Forge and Essence.
eg a "Hypnos" ion Field ECM I has better fittings and same strength as a ECM Ion Field II (standard 3.6 racial/ 1.2 non racial) yet they average for around 700k while a t2 goes for over 1mil right through to over 2mil.
Obviously the t2 market is governed by a minimal price of "material costs" but I would have thought that the t1 named sellers would be able to demand a HIGHER price for the mod (given that its better) yet consistantly I see them undervalued massively and in such quantities that I doubt I could manipulate the market.
So again I ask, is there any reason to explain beyond stupidity why the t2 ecm market is able to sustain itself, selling ecm mods in empire regions where better t1 named mods are being sold for under half the price?
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.04.08 08:34:00 -
[14]
You underestimate the stupidity of the shoppers in Eve. (well even in RL). People will always pay premiums for pretty packaging and that's exactly what happens in Eve.
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Theladder
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Posted - 2008.04.08 08:46:00 -
[15]
I remember a few months back best named T1 ECM modules were more expensive than T2 ones, perhaps things have been changed then :/.
One suggestion: try to manipulate the market yourself? Stock up one particular best named T1 ECM mod and see what happens
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KeeperOf Truth
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Posted - 2008.04.08 10:40:00 -
[16]
I am not logged in right now , so I can not check but is there an extra skill bonus applied to T2 version? If yes , that might be the reason..
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Gilbo
Monkeytech
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Posted - 2008.04.08 10:58:00 -
[17]
ECM are not the only superior-to-T2 meta 4 items that are cheaper than their T2 versions. Can think of quite a few others tbh
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Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Inertial Edited by: Inertial on 08/04/2008 07:12:33 There is one reasons to fit ECM II.
1. You can always get a supply of ECM II, unlike the best named, which is dependant on farmers.
This means that 0.0 allinces and pirate corps might very well have T2 production running. It is the same with rolled tungsten vs. T2 plates.
T2 steel plates are worse then tungsten in every way, and no one with a working brain would fit them over something better, like any other equal-sized plate.
"Current Earth-Destruction Status" |
Block Ukx
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:19:00 -
[19]
Sometimes itÆs not about money. I have been guilty of paying more for ammo and modules available at the station IÆm docked even though they are available for less in another station in the same system. Many people donÆt have the time to go shopping and donÆt mind paying a premium for the modules.
Eve is not about purchasing the cheapest item in the galaxy.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
cosmoray
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:32:00 -
[20]
people producing the tech II variant are making are selling the item because they are producers/industrialists. They are 'usually' after a certain profit margin.
Named items are usually sold by mission runners, and want their money more quickly. Profit margin isn't always as important as a quick sale. If the item has a high drop rate people selling will drop the price to sell the item.
Now when players fitting their ship have always used tech II, it is often easier to re-fit with the same item, and not fly 20 jumps just to get a marginally better named item.
If you think its too cheap, buy up the supply and re-sell.
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Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:23:00 -
[21]
Quote: I have noticed that the price of the meta 4 ecm mods are considerably lower than the t2 varients
How well are the tech 2 variants selling?
I saw a ridiculous imbalance in prices the other day, and it turned out the reason was that there was basically 0 movement for this module, even in jita. So who really cared how overly expensive the module was? It wasn't selling.
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Lorravan
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:43:00 -
[22]
The named ecm mods are dropped by Gurista pirates the prime target of Caldari mission runners. My guess is that there is a very large supply of named ECM modules compared to other named modules because of this.
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DragonRiderTao
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:34:00 -
[23]
Nutrient rich terrain.
How many dragons can you slay? You cant slay mine. |
Sphynx Stormlord
Anqara Tech
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Posted - 2008.04.08 23:14:00 -
[24]
Quote:
there is no reason why any rational person with decent game knowledge
Such people are few and far between. Which is all good, for traders, as it means that people sell to our buy orders, and buy from our sell orders, and buy things that are worse for a higher price, and manufacture at a loss 'cause their minerals were 'free', and basically just give their hard earned isk away.
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PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
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Posted - 2008.04.09 07:25:00 -
[25]
Edited by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik on 09/04/2008 07:26:38
Originally by: Lorravan The named ecm mods are dropped by Gurista pirates the prime target of Caldari mission runners. My guess is that there is a very large supply of named ECM modules compared to other named modules because of this.
Still doesnt explain why people than buy the t2 products. It only effects the supply aspect of the named ecm.
Yes they are possibly cheap due to oversupply, the OP is asking why than do t2 mods even sell? And yes, they are definitely selling.
Again, I too agree that stupidity is the only reasonable answer. Aussie TZ pvp corp AuPac is recruiting |
Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2008.04.09 07:47:00 -
[26]
Well, he actually didn't ask that straight off the bat.
Quote:
Why is it that across all racial types (inc multis) and across the regions I have checked, they are considerably lower in price?
But anyways.
Picture this for a moment.
You're out in 0.0, don't know what the market hub prices are like. You *do* know that invention has made most T2 items cheaper than their best named variants. Corporate/alliance logistics bum wants to know what people want. They "imagine" T2 ECM (pretty useful in PvP) is cheaper than best named, but better than other non-best-named variants purely thinking of bang-for-buck and not fitting requirements, so they ask for a bunch of them.
Logistics is a pain. A real pain. Last thing you want to be doing on your hauling run is flicking through heaps of markets looking for the best deals on everything for your corp. So you buy up exactly what was asked, regardless of price because you simply didn't look.
Stupid people? Maybe. Lazy? Yes. Understandable? Definately. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Improve Market Competition! |
Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:04:00 -
[27]
It's no surprise really. The high named items are likely priced low due to supply/demand. As already noted, these are dropped by heavily farmed NPCs. These are also (speculating here) not the most commonly used items, and so I'm guessing supply greatly exceeds demand. The t2 price is based on the cost of materials, and so it is not as flexible. Why do people still make these? Because people are buying them.
The OP frames the issue incorrectly in my view. The real question here is why do people BUY t2 when meta is better and when both are available. The answer? Unsophisticated consumers. As I think is true with a lot of items, t2 is not always better (t2 1600mm plates anyone?) But for various reasons, most people don't spend much time researching whether that is the case for every item they purchase. Factor in the relatively low cost of these items and the infrequency of the purchase, and people probably don't spend much time looking into the issue. It's not the same type of research you would do if you were buying a t2 bship.
There's also the issue (already mentioned) of perhaps struggling to find these items in certain areas, but when both are available, it's just an issue of ignorant purchasers.
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El Codge
El Codge's Emporium of Exotic Delights
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:12:00 -
[28]
This is quite unusual, as normally, best named goes for quite a bit higher than the T2 - check out Fleeting propultsion inhibitors, Phased Muon dampers, Arbalest missile launchers and Faint warp prohibitors compared to their t2 equivalents.
Best named usally have same stats, but with better fitting requirements, so are usually much more saught after.
Best thing to do in this case is read up on how jamming works. If you still cannot find a reason why they're cheaper, then whack up a massive buy order, sell for profit in a station near a warzone.
-------------------------- This post means i'm mining |
KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2008.04.09 15:14:00 -
[29]
simple gravimetric one is much more expensive than tech2 and only 4 ships uses them Blackbird/falcon/Rook/scorp , T1 only has advantage for a rookie Blackbird pilot any self respetable Caldari ew pilot will not have any problem with T2 fitting/cap usage and will buy all jammers at same station and a rookie blackbird pilot will not put meta 4 gear to a BB 2nd these 4 ships all are paperthin primaried ships you dont want move around in a ew ship withhoout fitted from 1 statipn to another And sh** load of stock ,i have hundreds sitting in my hangar
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Yes they are possibly cheap due to oversupply, the OP is asking why than do t2 mods even sell? And yes, they are definitely selling.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:53:00 -
[30]
Its not as funny as a year and a half ago, when shield boost amp II was cheaper that the same t1 version, even though the t1 version was used to build it! --
Billion Isk Mission |
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