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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.10 03:37:00 -
[1]
Tallen Atear, CEO of Davy Jones Locker corp [DJLX] and founder of The Einherjar Alliance [THOR-] has recently accused my alliance, Visions of Warfare [VoW] of not posting losses from a recently ended war in the Tash-Murkon region. Despite numerous requests, Tallen has yet to provide a single VoW loss that has not been reported on our killboard. We have made several attempts to find any losses that have not been reported by looking over kills on the DJLX killboard. None have been found and if they are produced they will be posted immediately and the pilots responsible will be dealt with.
Concurrently, THOR- was at war with several other groups in the area, including Teikoku Trade Conglomerate [TTC]. TTC are former members of VoW, and the two groups still operate together. There is a very good chance that the missing kills that Tallen is referring too are due to the two groups sometimes operating together while not sharing a common killboard. This kind of thing happens when you have multiple war targets attacking you and is, to some degree, understandable. Repeatedly smacking in local about it after having it explained to you is not.
However, if you look at our killboard campaign page for the war, you will notice several pilots in THOR- that have not been posting losses on their own corporate killboards. In particular, TalCorp Enterprises and Forging Industries have not been posting any significant number of losses on their own killboards. Also, if you look at the DJLX campaign killboard for the war, you'll see that we actually have more losses posted than they have kills posted. That's kinda hard to pull off if we're not posting losses.
So, the lessons here?
1. Before you smack talk a former War Target for not posting losses, make bloody well sure that the members of your alliance are posting all of theirs.
2. Once you form an alliance, get every member corp to start using the same killboard.
3. After a war is over, stop smack talking your former War Targets, especially when they inflicted relatively heavy losses against you.
To further drive these points home, VoW has, as of now, restarted our war against THOR-.
Let the games begin again.... -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Stella Sinn
Sector 7 Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.10 03:41:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Stella Sinn on 10/04/2008 03:40:57 Heheh game's yarrrrr..... ---
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Destr0math
The Illuminati. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.10 03:44:00 -
[3]
as an interested party, you both should undock ---- Today is CATURDAY |
Stella Sinn
Sector 7 Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.10 03:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Stella Sinn on 10/04/2008 03:52:45
Originally by: Destr0math as an interested party, you both should undock
Lol dont worry if you want to hang around enough u will get plenty of undocks! ---
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Sollana
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Posted - 2008.04.10 07:12:00 -
[5]
WOW!.
Ok if you look at your Kill board perhaps you ought to tidy p house and sort out all the DOUBLE POSTINGS!!
http://teikoku.griefwatch.net/?p=kills&campaign=2851...looks like a little EPeen here.
The DJL killboard pretty much does it auto, but we have a strict policy of immediate updates.
At the time of the Initial WAR DEC, Talcorp and HUMM where not part of the alliance, as the Alliance was in formation.
As for using the same Killboard, we do as we can for the moment until we have purchased a full alliance KB, if this bothers you, Im sorry but the administration depart can deal with your greivance in due course.
The heavy losses you speak of seem be wildering. the as mentioned before the Buffing of your Killboard with double postings does seema bit odd, if i had toime i would wade through it and give true figures, but ill go by the Davy jones one for no, not exactly heavy losses, but if we looked at isk loss ... u lose.....
We will fight as you know, we welcome the war with open arms.
See you outside a station if you can find the exit.
Sollana
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Sollana
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Posted - 2008.04.10 07:42:00 -
[6]
ok, so now having time to look at the figures from both killboards:
For the purposes of this arguement: Einjerhar Alliance consists of (DJL, HUMM, TALCORP, FORGE IND) VOW Allianceconsists of (TTC, Knights of the wild,the conspiracy,Sector 7,) seem its only these corps involved atm.
Posted on VOW killboard. DJL: lost 51 Killed 61 HUMM: Lost 6 Killed 10 Talcorp: Lost 10 Killed 22 Forge Ind: Lost 4 Killed 0
Total: Lost 71 Killed 93
Posted on DJL killboard VOW: Lost 90 Killed 79
If we follow the logic of the boards, you only have for einjerhar alliance : 60 losses and 56 Kills
so all the figures you have are somewhat confused, due to the formation of our new alliance.
Therefore your war dec is welcomed to prove a point. but remember its not about how many ships are lost, its about the money..
and if we look at both boards we can see you have sustained more lost ISK than us. In a war you will have casualities, its a matter of if you can sustain them.
DJL board: ISK Lost 2,657,033,066, VOW ISK lost 3,152,505,248 VOW board: ISK lost 555.32M ISK, DJL ISK Lost 905.7M ISK TTC board: ISK lost 1,937,418,470, EINJERHAR Lost 7,606,476,455 (LOL)double posts for the win.
Personally if VOW are gonna fight a war alongside TTC, perhaps they should have the same Killboard too, and perhaps that killboard will only have single posted KM on them :P
I suggest the 2 CEO@s get together and discuss the KIllmail issue, but if that doesnt happen...See u in TESH outside.... or inside ...... bah a station :P
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Sollana
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Posted - 2008.04.10 07:45:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sollana on 10/04/2008 07:46:44 Information taken from: DJL Killboard TTC Killboard VOW killboard
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2008.04.10 07:57:00 -
[8]
Dear CCP remove killmails
This effectively removes
K/D ratio
Isk ratio
Every killmail post ever
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.10 09:00:00 -
[9]
or killboards could just improve and make a campaign say a+b+c vs d+e and grab all the mails involving abcde from all kbs and make a nice summary. KBs are awesome, they keep the score. How many games would you play if no score is kept? How would you know if you won or lost? Don't you play a game in order to win the game, isn't that the whole point? The whole "KBs suck!" argument flat-out confuses me.
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.10 11:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sollana
Ok if you look at your Kill board perhaps you ought to tidy p house and sort out all the DOUBLE POSTINGS!!
http://teikoku.griefwatch.net/?p=kills&campaign=2851...looks like a little EPeen here.
If you have issue with how TTC handles their killboards, take it up with them and stop smacking VoW folks in local about it. Their killboards are nor our responsibility.
Originally by: Sollana
Posted on VOW killboard. DJL: lost 51 Killed 61 HUMM: Lost 6 Killed 10 Talcorp: Lost 10 Killed 22 Forge Ind: Lost 4 Killed 0
Total: Lost 71 Killed 93
Posted on DJL killboard VOW: Lost 90 Killed 79
Not sure where you got the numbers from our killboard, but under our campaign section (which is limited to THOR- and it's member corps) it has us listed as 78 THOR- kills and 57 losses to THOR-. These are losses to and kills by VoW members only. Also, it looks like you may be doing a little selective double-counting yourelf: We have both THOR- and their member corps listed separately due to the fact that DJLX was our initial WT and THOR- did not exist at the start of the war. We did this for completeness.
The numbers that you have listed from your killboard are from your joint campaign against both VoW and TTC. Everything that I have been quoting has been for VoW only. I really feel that this is the primary source of your confusion. You have VoW and TTC lumped together as one on your killboards, yet our killboards are not lumped together since we are independent. If you look more specifically at your VoW stats, you'll notice that they are much more similar to what we have posted. The agreement is not perfect, but it's reasonably close.
Another source of confusion may be our killboard software itself. If you look at our losses page, you will notice that even though we did lose pods and did post them (they are visible in the stats at top), the actual pod lossmails do not show up because our killboards do not consider pods, shuttles, and noobships to be 'real' kills. This is explained on our About page. This is an occasional source of frustration for us as well, and could be further adding to the confusion. However, if you search for the pilots involved, you will find the lossmails.
Again, I welcome anyone from THOR- to provide VoW with any lossmails that we have not posted; they will be posted immediately and the pilots dealt with. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
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The CorpseTwister
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:06:00 -
[11]
Edited by: The CorpseTwister on 10/04/2008 15:06:55 this is DJLX KB Visions of Warfare 53 kills, 62 losses, and -248 points Kills / Losses, weekly interval Week 16, 2008Week 45, 2007 Member corporations Knights of the Wild,10 kills, 7 losses Sector 7, 47 kills, 31 losses The .Conspiracy,23 kills, 15 losses We See Dead People,2 kills, 8 losses were are they geting 90 from. this is vow KB for just davy jones Kills:64, Losses:53, Damage done (ISK): 596.92M Damage received (ISK): 879.1M
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IntegralHellsing
Gallente Romantic Devastator
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:44:00 -
[12]
oh god they fight over a couple of killmails? --------------------------------------
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: IntegralHellsing oh god they fight over a couple of killmails?
They talk smack over a few killmails. We re-upped our wardec over the smack talk. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Faife
Blackrain Solutions Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:16:00 -
[14]
We use TTC as our alliance ticker though.
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The CorpseTwister
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:18:00 -
[15]
Faife srry we are not talking about yall we are talking about Teikoku Trade Conglomerate [TTC].
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Faife
Blackrain Solutions Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:20:00 -
[16]
Wrong bracket type, my fault.
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:20:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 10/04/2008 16:23:02
Originally by: Faife We use TTC as our alliance ticker though.
True, but Teikoku Trade Conglomerate is a corp, not an alliance. I'm fairly certain that their corp ticker is TTC, although if I find this to be in error I will correct my posts. As it is, I shall edit the OP to specify that Teikoku Trade Conglomerate is a corp, not an alliance.
Thank you for the information and I apologize for any confusion.
EDIT: Damn Corpse, I thought I was supposed to be the lunch-time forum camper, lol. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Salliene
Gallente Happy Unicorn Initiative
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:26:00 -
[18]
Did this war involve a mercenary contract or something? Otherwise I can't see any reason why anyone (including yourselves) should care about what the OTHER one is doing on their killboard?
One Girls Journey through the EVE Universe |
The CorpseTwister
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:29:00 -
[19]
nope no mercenary contract of any sort
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Salliene Did this war involve a mercenary contract or something? Otherwise I can't see any reason why anyone (including yourselves) should care about what the OTHER one is doing on their killboard?
We only care because they have been trash talking us about our killboard not showing losses. In general, we could care less what they do with their own killboards, we just wanted to set the record straight. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
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Patso Tappaja
Paisti Paisti Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.10 17:10:00 -
[21]
If they dont post their losses and think that is ok then it is ok. Some people like fake their killmails and their killboard ratios. If they keep doing this they are losing moral fight. It is easyer to look to eyes of boogieman and try learn from mistakes.
This Sig doesnt lack eve-online material THIS time. |
Stella Sinn
Sector 7 Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.10 21:28:00 -
[22]
This all stems from smack in local as far KB's go who cares. what I cant stand is the constant smack in local there for the reason of a war dec is in order until thier leader stops smacking his mouth..........
We dont smack them and inforce this on all our players for these reasons. ItMakes u and your alliance look like an ass Does nothing but make u more eneimies Shows that instead of actions all u can do is use words to fight back with.
Some smack is funny and enjoyed by both sides though this is the I am going to whine biatch and moan kinda smack that tallen atear was doing. ---
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Amarrian Cougar
Amarr Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2008.04.10 23:04:00 -
[23]
Dear Bronson,
Being someone who recently left TalCorp Enterprises and who participated in the war to some degree I think I may know why some of the killmails where not posted from the TalCorp side. Myself and two of my friends are realitivly new to EVE and this was the first war we had participated in. A few days ago we decided to split with TalCorp due to the fact we were just to inexperienced to deal with being war targets and our ability to make isk had been severely diminished because of this.
The day we left the corp we were unaware that one needed to log out after leaving a corp in order for your status to reset. Because of this, one of our guys was blown up twice by "wartargets" that shouldn't have been hostile any longer. The other guy was killed once, I however escaped without harm. Due to the glitch the killmails may have never reached Lord Talamar, CEO of TalCorp and these two guys were none the wiser in knowing they should post them. A petition has also been sent to CCP by both of the involved parties for each of the incidents.
If this is the source of the problem I sincerely apologize on their behalf and hope that you wouldn't hold TalCorp in any lower standing because of it. TalCorp is a very honest, forthcoming corporation that I know for a fact would not withhold something of this nature. Especially the CEO whom I have known for sometime now and I can assure you he is a very straightforward and "by the books" kind of guy.
Also please take note that I am no longer a member of TalCorp and I do not speak on their behalf or on the behalf of any of the other Corps in the E-Alliance, however I figured this was worth mentioning and may clear up some of the issues you were having with my former employer.
Thanks
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.11 01:22:00 -
[24]
Amarrian Cougar: Thank you very much for the information. As I stated above, I personally don't care much what other people do with their killboards, I was simply using TalCorp as an example of why Tallen should not be trash talking us about not posting losses when his alliance was missing them as well.
Fly safe. |
Amarrian Cougar
Amarr Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2008.04.11 01:29:00 -
[25]
Thank you for the quick response and a good day to you. |
Paul Atredes
The .Conspiracy Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.12 02:59:00 -
[26]
I've got balls of steel!!
Anywhoo, much fun tonight. Had me worried when nothing came out last night.
We get a gang up and move out, kill a few ships then pull back and go afk, half of us start watching youtube (I've got balls of steel!), they hot drop a couple carriers on us and we run back to empire yelling "I've got Balls of Steel!" in local
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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.13 14:34:00 -
[27]
Given the sudden decrease in the amount of smack talk we've been receiving in Local about not posting losses, the continued silence by <THOR-> members in this thread after the initial exchange (Sollana is a member), and the fact that losses have started appearing on all of <THOR->'s member corp killboards, I think that we can consider this issue closed. If any members of <THOR-> have further matters to discuss on this issue, please feel free to.
Thanks for the great fight on Friday and props for the attempted carrier drop. I hope we can keep the good fights coming. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
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