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kris min
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Posted - 2008.04.11 20:45:00 -
[1]
Edited by: kris min on 11/04/2008 20:46:55 Greetings.
I'll get right to the point.
A couple of weeks ago, I started this trading character with the intent to finance my main. I came to realize that I enjoyed my trader more than my main, and managed to turn a healthy profit. so far, I've made most of my profit from trading in my local region.
After some investigation, I have discovered a few very profitable inter-regional trade routes. I can cheaply stock up on a number of select items at one location, and at a big profit, resell them at the other.
Unfortunately, they involve moving goods through a couple of low-sec systems which, of course, introduces some risk.
So, here's the plan:
I plan to collect 100 million ISK each from 10 investors, with a guaranteed 5% interest in two weeks, and a chance at an additional 3% if the high-risk, inter-regional endeavour proves successful. Any profit exceeding this, I will keep.
I plan to expand this business model further, gradually increasing the size of the accepted investments every two weeks while maintaining the interest rates, until the market starts offering enough resistance to where it is no longer profitable for me. This first attempt, however, is experimental and mainly focused on building trust with the Eve business community.
To clarify, the only ISK that will be placed in the high-risk option will be whatever exceeds 105% of the initial investment. The first 5% will be made playing the market in major trade hubs, and makes up the 5% guaranteed interest.
Early withdrawal will incur a 5% fee and disqualify you from receiving any interest on your investment.
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Emotek
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Posted - 2008.04.11 20:57:00 -
[2]
Do you have any security to offer? API keys? A list of other characters?
I might be willing to offer up to 500 million ISK. Perhaps more if I am impressed.
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Ambo
2nd Outcasters
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Posted - 2008.04.11 21:33:00 -
[3]
I might be interested but 100 mil is just such an insignificant amount to invest, it would be more hassle than it's worth for me.
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Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
kris min
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Posted - 2008.04.11 21:36:00 -
[4]
I am not prepared to give away my API keys, but can provide a list of my characters:
kris min (trader) steken (soldier)
I don't see how this would help, though.
If you're worried about losing your investment, maybe reducing the amount you're willing to invest in this first round would help. As previously stated, I'm planning to make this a recurring business plan every two weeks. Start slow and see where it goes, I guess.
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kris min
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Posted - 2008.04.11 21:49:00 -
[5]
Edited by: kris min on 11/04/2008 21:49:55 Ambo: The purpose for the low starting investment was a matter of trust. I figured people would be careful in trusting a previously unknown trader with their money, and therefore decided to deal with smaller amounts in the first round as a sign of good faith.
Also, the first round will be limited to a maximum investment of 1 bil total for all investors, to get an estimate of the market resistance when dealing with that kind of money.
That being said, I suppose there's nothing preventing you from buying several of the 100 mil parts, should you want to.
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Salpad
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Posted - 2008.04.12 00:18:00 -
[6]
I'm willing to risk 100M ISK, if you'll give me some dates, meaning the date when I must send you my ISK, and the date when I'll get my ISK back.
-- Salpad |
Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.12 01:04:00 -
[7]
Care to say who your main is?
As a rule I don't invest in unidentified, newly created alts.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Hansoloo
Nomadic Wayfarer Syndicate Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.12 01:12:00 -
[8]
I will invest in 500m if you can provide some kinda backup plan just in case when you go in to one of them low secs ... yea we all know..
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kris min
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Posted - 2008.04.12 07:47:00 -
[9]
Edited by: kris min on 12/04/2008 07:49:08
Originally by: Salpad I'm willing to risk 100M ISK, if you'll give me some dates, meaning the date when I must send you my ISK, and the date when I'll get my ISK back.
I was planning to start this when the total investment of 1 billion had been reached, and then return the money with profit two weeks later. However, if you as investors would prefer a clearly defined time-frame, here goes:
I will collect ISK from the interested parties on 2008-04-14, up to a maximum total investment of 1 billion ISK, and will return the investment, with interest, no later than 2008-04-28 00:00 GMT (Eve time).
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Care to say who your main is?
As a rule I don't invest in unidentified, newly created alts.
To clarify: I see you're claiming Steken is your "soldier" but seeing as he's only been a member of 2 alt corps, currently lives in an NPC corp, has no standings, a 0.0 sec status and has never accepted or issued a contract I'm about 90% certain he's an alt. So, who's your main.
I realize that my history doesn't exactly provide much in the way of trust. The fact is, Steken was my first character and my intended main when I first started playing Eve a few years ago. As I had no money to spend on ships/fittings at that point I figured mining was the way to go if I wanted to make money. That got me bored really fast and I basically quit playing Eve.
Recently I decided to give Eve another go, and decided to be a little better prepared this time around. So, I started browsing the forums, and decided to try making a little ISK the trading route. The level of realism in the Eve trade system is unlike that of any other game I've ever played, and it's pretty much made me abandon any aspirations I had for my solider character.
This is now my main. I fully understand your decision, if you choose not to invest in this project. Perhaps in one of the future rounds we can do business.
Originally by: Hansoloo I will invest in 500m if you can provide some kinda backup plan just in case when you go in to one of them low secs ... yea we all know..
To clarify, the first 5% intereset on your investment will be made playing the market (no risky ventures into low sec). Any *additional* profit (exceeding the first 5%) will then be diverted into the low-sec mission.
In other words, your first 5% interest is more or less guaranteed, and there is a chance of an additional 3% assuming I don't get blown to bits.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.04.12 09:52:00 -
[10]
Roguehalo and LRN have both trusted me with their full API keys, so I could produce brief reports on them, for potential investors to have a look at. I'm also holding about 2.5bn isk worth of BPOs for LRN, so I'd say I was a fairly trustworthy individual (and I hope he would, to).
I would consider investing if I had some proof that you've been trading, and if I were to produce such a report on your acitivities (no mentions of specific items traded etc) I imagine that others would be willing as well. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
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kris min
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Posted - 2008.04.12 11:04:00 -
[11]
Edited by: kris min on 12/04/2008 11:04:48
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Roguehalo and LRN have both trusted me with their full API keys, so I could produce brief reports on them, for potential investors to have a look at. I'm also holding about 2.5bn isk worth of BPOs for LRN, so I'd say I was a fairly trustworthy individual (and I hope he would, to).
I would consider investing if I had some proof that you've been trading, and if I were to produce such a report on your acitivities (no mentions of specific items traded etc) I imagine that others would be willing as well.
Whether or not you are trustworthy is not my main issue with giving someone access to my API-key. Unwanted competition is. Letting someone in on what items I deal in, where I do it and how much I make off of it jeopardizes my chances to maintain my current profit margin.
Everyone's in it to make money here. Hypothetically, let's say there were a few entries in my journals showing items that I made big money off of. Even if you would not divulge this information to anyone else, what is to stop you from competing with me, killing my profit.
What I'm selling here is not only my time. I'm selling my way of doing business. If I let you in on how I do that, the need for keeping me in the loop is gone.
Sorry.
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Salpad
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:19:00 -
[12]
Should I just send you 100M ISK for one share, then? -- Salpad |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: kris min What I'm selling here is not only my time. I'm selling my way of doing business. If I let you in on how I do that, the need for keeping me in the loop is gone.
Please take this as it is intended: You sir are full of crap. 'Nuff said.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
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Coconut Joe
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: kris min What I'm selling here is not only my time. I'm selling my way of doing business. If I let you in on how I do that, the need for keeping me in the loop is gone.
Please take this as it is intended: You sir are full of crap. 'Nuff said.
teehee - Eve IGB Store Template - The complete eve retail solution. |
kris min
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:43:00 -
[15]
Edited by: kris min on 12/04/2008 14:44:14
Originally by: Salpad Should I just send you 100M ISK for one share, then?
As previously stated, this project will start on 2008-04-14. I recommend you wait until then. Can I count you as a confirmed investor, though? I will track interested investors by updating my initial post with names and size of investments. Regardless of whether or not I reach my goal of 1 billion in total investments, I will work with what I get and provide the stated percentages of interest to any investors I do get.
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: kris min What I'm selling here is not only my time. I'm selling my way of doing business. If I let you in on how I do that, the need for keeping me in the loop is gone.
Please take this as it is intended: You sir are full of crap. 'Nuff said.
Feel free to sit out, then.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: kris min Even if you would not divulge this information to anyone else, what is to stop you from competing with me, killing my profit?
I run some labs that provide the bulk of my income. I haven't done any pure trading for a very long time, as I don't particularly enjoy it. I mostly invest with other people, like you, who offer to do it for me. Naturally, I would like to carry on doing this in future, so it's in my interests to be careful with any sensitive information.
You don't have to trust me personally. I'd be equally happy to invest if some other independent third party were to audit your accounts and provide a similar report. All I can say about you at the moment is that you appear to have been operating in Essence, perhaps doing the occasional bit of trading in Oursulaert. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: kris min Feel free to sit out, then.
Note the polite way of saying, "Mind your own business." I'll give you a few points for that, very few, but I figure instead of listing all the reasons why this is scam-like I'd cut straight to the chase and call "bs" on you evasion. If I was a betting man, I'd say you are most likely this poster here. - Both listing what appear to be small, negligible, ipo requests.
- Both offering no security of any kind.
- Both having little to no history.
- Both created within a day or so of each other.
- Both making their ipo requests the same day.
Mostly though your excuse about trade secrets is just that, an excuse. Not a very good one either. (See LAME) So, as you kindly pointed out, I will sit this one out. Now that is. PS: Hexxx mentioned this to me but does anyone know where all the sig blocks have gone?
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Shar Tegral PS: Hexxx mentioned this to me but does anyone know where all the sig blocks have gone?
The forum settings screen has been changed again, and everyone's sig preferences have been set to 'do not display' as the default. This makes sense - you can now diable sigs/images on a per-account rather than a per-character basis. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
kris min
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Shar Tegral If I was a betting man, I'd say you are most likely this poster here.
Then be glad you're not a betting man. You'd be a broke one.
Obviously, I'd like to be able to provide some form of security. API-keys are out of the question, no matter what you think you can deduce from that. Now, how about helping me out a little instead. What other options of providing security are available to me? Surely, it's not impossible for new MD players to start business projects? Or are you telling me that for a new player to be able to get investments, he would have to surrender his API keys, and thereby wallet history? This, to me, seems a bit like extortion.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: kris min Or are you telling me that for a new player to be able to get investments, he would have to surrender his API keys, and thereby wallet history? This, to me, seems a bit like extortion.
Extortion would be, "You can't be in business if you don't surrender your keys." This is, "You can't get investors on a public forum without some sort of background check."
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
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kris min
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:21:00 -
[21]
Well, then please tell me how I can provide you with a background check, sans API keys...
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:37:00 -
[22]
Well, we just need to find someone, preferably a reputable person, that both you and potential investors can trust. That person needs to be given full disclosure, either via API keys, or, if you've been trading through a corp and don't want to reveal your alts, by having the trusted person join and giving them accountant roles. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:37:00 -
[23]
Originally by: kris min Well, then please tell me how I can provide you with a background check, sans API keys...
Get someone who is trusted on MD to vouch for you. If you don't already have someone like that, there is no API key, and profit isn't relatively high, don't expect to get invested in. Same goes for the real world, you don't get a loan if you don't allow a basic credit check. If your work history is to short, or certain factors arent high enough, you won't get te requested loan. What your asking for is effective a loan...
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Salpad
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Posted - 2008.04.12 20:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: kris min Edited by: kris min on 12/04/2008 14:44:14
Originally by: Salpad Should I just send you 100M ISK for one share, then?
As previously stated, this project will start on 2008-04-14. I recommend you wait until then. Can I count you as a confirmed investor, though? I will track interested investors by updating my initial post with names and size of investments. Regardless of whether or not I reach my goal of 1 billion in total investments, I will work with what I get and provide the stated percentages of interest to any investors I do get.
Yes, you can count on me as a confirmed investor.
I haven't done this sort of thing before, meaning to invest on another character's business, but I'd like to try it, and your 100M ISK buy-in sounds reasonable to me.
Hopefully you will keep me and others informed about how things are going, and pay back promptly, because then we might be able to do further business in the future, you and I.
(I hear you are, or may be, looking to buy some minerals...)
-- Salpad |
Roguehalo
Caldari RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:23:00 -
[25]
Is it just me or do kris min/salpad/gilca all seem much of a muchness?
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Roguehalo
Caldari RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:28:00 -
[26]
hmm let's make that kris min/gilca/salpad/Nigol kan/ljoti
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gilca
Caldari 99 Problems.
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:50:00 -
[27]
hah sorry you made the wrong assumption about the OP and me. I would be more than happy to provide a full api key to TRULY INTERESTED investors. Please come talk to me ingame, or make a request in my thread, which you so helpfully linked above.
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Roguehalo
Caldari RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2008.04.12 22:15:00 -
[28]
hmm you didn't seem too much interested in providing your api key to Kazuo Ishiguro.
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gilca
Caldari 99 Problems.
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Posted - 2008.04.12 22:20:00 -
[29]
Edited by: gilca on 12/04/2008 22:21:13 He never requested it from me. You want me to send it to everyone who posts in MD forums?
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Atima
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Posted - 2008.04.12 23:07:00 -
[30]
Originally by: kris min Edited by: kris min on 11/04/2008 20:46:55
I plan to expand this business model further, gradually increasing the size of the accepted investments every two weeks while maintaining the interest rates, until the market starts offering enough resistance to where it is no longer profitable for me. This first attempt, however, is experimental and mainly focused on building trust with the Eve business community.
This simply screams scam to me. Paying investors isk back with the isk invested from other investors to encourage larger investments, particularly the " gradually increasing size of investment " as accepting large investments can ruin the scam. I believe this is called a ponzei scheme. Read about it somewhere.
No api key to prove he is actually doing some trading either. Going to need some serious support to encourage some investment.
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