Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Orrelious
Minmatar The Umbrella Union Fleet
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 15:30:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Shadowsword I say replace the sig radius penalty on shield extenders by a speed penalty, and suddenly vaggabonds are a lot more manageable...
/signed, massive nerf to passive drakes cannot be a bad thing. Would only need to be done on large shield extenders aswell.
Problem solved everybody, stop discussion!
|
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 16:28:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mauy Thai A vaga only needs 2 speed rigs and 1 speed mod anyway, so stacking (if they introduce it) shouldn't matter.
Well, the speed rigs are going to stack nerf with the other mods. IIRC, the devs said they would be nerfing Polycarbs in the interviews after the alliance tourney (where they unveiled their idea for how to nerf speed).
I've been using a polycarb and an overdrive for my benchmark of what speed will be like post-nerf, but suffice it to say that if your ship requires speed rigs to be effective, it will be totally impossible then. ;-)
-Liang
-Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 16:38:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Well, the speed rigs are going to stack nerf with the other mods. IIRC, the devs said they would be nerfing Polycarbs in the interviews after the alliance tourney (where they unveiled their idea for how to nerf speed).
I've been using a polycarb and an overdrive for my benchmark of what speed will be like post-nerf, but suffice it to say that if your ship requires speed rigs to be effective, it will be totally impossible then. ;-)
That preety much means the death of nano-Sacriledges/Ishtars/Curses (which won't work anymore at all without full LG snake sets and even then plus max skills plus 3% implants you'll be pulling some 4630km/s out of Ishtars, 4790m/s out of Sacriledges and 3943m/s out of Curses - all sensible configs with full speed fits).
I can't say I'm sorry tbh, you can nano everything in the game with polycarbons and snakes.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Hardtail
Red Dawn Empire
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 17:07:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jeetah As others have stated before, the vagabond is MEANT to go fast, as it does nothing else, but runs. Nano ships with no tracking issues (drone and missile boats mainly) need nerf, but the vagabond is essentially an overgrown tackler, nothing else.
It can't solo a battleship like a curse can, and yet I don't see ppl complaining about how overpowered the curse is (it is, and so is the pilgrim).
So what if vagas run fast? Nothing.
assuming this isint flamebait, how about you go try and fly a pilgrim? |
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 17:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Hardtail assuming this isint flamebait, how about you go try and fly a pilgrim?
It was all I could do not to respond to that one. But yeah... sure the Pilgrim is OP.
-Liang |
Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 17:36:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jeetah It can't solo a battleship like a curse can, and yet I don't see ppl complaining about how overpowered the curse is (it is, and so is the pilgrim).
You can't solo a BS in a Curse unless the pilot is an idiot. Same goes for Ishtar. Just shoot the drones.
And LOL @ the Pilgrim comment. Worst recon in the game atm.
|
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 17:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kruel You can't solo a BS in a Curse unless the pilot is an idiot. Same goes for Ishtar. Just shoot the drones.
That presumes you can hit the drones... the Curse does have a bonus to TD's (though as with all things tracking related, webs somewhat trump this).
-Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Yoko Lee
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 17:44:00 -
[38]
Large smartbomb? Bs's drone? web curse drone + pwe wpe? etc Difficult to kill a bs with a curse (not impossible)
|
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 17:54:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 14/04/2008 17:54:24
Originally by: Yoko Lee Large smartbomb?
Not common, but you can probably cap him out eventually.
Quote: Bs's drone?
Primary his drones with yours.
Quote: web curse drone + pwe wpe?
Yeah, I totally admitted that webs trump TD's for the most part.
Quote: etc Difficult to kill a bs with a curse (not impossible)
Yeah, I wouldn't try to deny that it will be a difficult fight. The Curse would be OMGWTF imba if it weren't.
-Liang
Ed: It should be noted that all of those exact same counters existed before the nos nerf, and people didn't have any troubles killing battleships then. ;-) -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance. |
Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 20:56:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Kruel You can't solo a BS in a Curse unless the pilot is an idiot. Same goes for Ishtar. Just shoot the drones.
That presumes you can hit the drones... the Curse does have a bonus to TD's (though as with all things tracking related, webs somewhat trump this).
-Liang
You have this thing called a drone bay.
|
|
Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 21:00:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 14/04/2008 21:00:35
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Not common, but you can probably cap him out eventually.
Hes running on the same injector as you, and he has a lot more cargospace, and doesnt need to run the mwd. You're gonna cap out before him, not the other way around.
Quote:
Primary his drones with yours.
Doesn't work. I've played drone agro games with the pre-damp/nos nerf curse, and I managed to kill all of a curse's drones with a ratting raven.
You can lock all his drones before you release and immediately go after one. By the time he locks your drones you will have killed one and can retract to break his targetting. Assuming both pilots are competent, the bs will always win the drone war.
Quote: Ed: It should be noted that all of those exact same counters existed before the nos nerf, and people didn't have any troubles killing battleships then. ;-)
Damping a bs to 180sec lock time+5km lock range+scoop for full shields and redeploy just may have had something to do with that.
Oh and you didnt need an injector, you could run the mwd off the bs's cap, now you have to use injectors just like him.
|
Corstaad
Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 21:07:00 -
[42]
Today I was accused of nano stabbing my Stabber by a Myrmidon. Thats not a rare thing either people don't understand there alot more then approach make guns glow. If anything we'll see the super speeds drop alittle and goofy ships like the ishtar slowing down. I still don't think there is any speed problem just mildly wetarded people.
|
Gort
Storm Guard Elite
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 22:52:00 -
[43]
This^^
And all of it.
-- When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2008.04.14 22:56:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Orrelious
Originally by: Shadowsword I say replace the sig radius penalty on shield extenders by a speed penalty, and suddenly vaggabonds are a lot more manageable...
/signed, massive nerf to passive drakes cannot be a bad thing. Would only need to be done on large shield extenders aswell.
Problem solved everybody, stop discussion!
Just wanted to inform you that you're dumb. Changing sig radius penalty on extenders to speed will make passive drakes a lot stronger, not weaker. GG But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
|
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 01:31:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ishina Fel What upcoming nano nerf?
Sure, CCP has said that they're thinking about stack-nerfing the various speed enhancing modules against each other as a group. But:
- This is not confirmed to happen yet - If it'll happen, there's no date yet - It would only really hurt ships that need 4+ speed mods to achieve any kind of velocity
And to be honest, I don't think it's a good solution at all. it feels heavy-handed and doesn't mesh well with the rest of the game mechanics.
If the proposed nano-nerf uses a similar stacking penalty to other modules (hardners, damage upgrades and the like) I'd think that it would make most nano designs completely useless as you woudln't be able to squeeze enough speed out of them to make nanoing a worthwhile venture.
|
Hannobaal
Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 02:15:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 15/04/2008 02:15:40
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Ishina Fel What upcoming nano nerf?
Sure, CCP has said that they're thinking about stack-nerfing the various speed enhancing modules against each other as a group. But:
- This is not confirmed to happen yet - If it'll happen, there's no date yet - It would only really hurt ships that need 4+ speed mods to achieve any kind of velocity
And to be honest, I don't think it's a good solution at all. it feels heavy-handed and doesn't mesh well with the rest of the game mechanics.
If the proposed nano-nerf uses a similar stacking penalty to other modules (hardners, damage upgrades and the like) I'd think that it would make most nano designs completely useless as you woudln't be able to squeeze enough speed out of them to make nanoing a worthwhile venture.
Speed mods allready have stacking penalties exactly like hardeners and damage mods and so on. What people are talking about is something even more severe (and something that doesn't actually exist at all in Eve right now), and that is to have stacking penalties between modules even when they don't effect the same attribute. The equivalent for hardeners would be hardeners for different damage types getting stacking penalties together. |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 02:30:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 15/04/2008 02:33:12
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Ishina Fel What upcoming nano nerf?
Sure, CCP has said that they're thinking about stack-nerfing the various speed enhancing modules against each other as a group. But:
- This is not confirmed to happen yet - If it'll happen, there's no date yet - It would only really hurt ships that need 4+ speed mods to achieve any kind of velocity
And to be honest, I don't think it's a good solution at all. it feels heavy-handed and doesn't mesh well with the rest of the game mechanics.
If the proposed nano-nerf uses a similar stacking penalty to other modules (hardners, damage upgrades and the like) I'd think that it would make most nano designs completely useless as you woudln't be able to squeeze enough speed out of them to make nanoing a worthwhile venture.
Not really. Ships that were designed to go fast will still go fast. There's just too many ways now to increase your speed, none of which have any kind of penalty against each other:
MWD Overdrives / Aux Thrusters Nanos / Polycarbs Snakes Skirmish Warfare Links
Just two or three of those is fine - with just MWD + 3 Overdrives + polies a Vagabond still easily reaches 4.5km/sec, which is fine.
Take all 5 however and you have a Vagabond that goes over 15km/sec with a T2 fit (23km/s overloaded). That is what's unbalanced. Sure it takes a lot of ISK and SP to achieve that, but it's not as if they arn't readily available nowadays. |
Hannobaal
Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 02:39:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Ishina Fel What upcoming nano nerf?
Sure, CCP has said that they're thinking about stack-nerfing the various speed enhancing modules against each other as a group. But:
- This is not confirmed to happen yet - If it'll happen, there's no date yet - It would only really hurt ships that need 4+ speed mods to achieve any kind of velocity
And to be honest, I don't think it's a good solution at all. it feels heavy-handed and doesn't mesh well with the rest of the game mechanics.
If the proposed nano-nerf uses a similar stacking penalty to other modules (hardners, damage upgrades and the like) I'd think that it would make most nano designs completely useless as you woudln't be able to squeeze enough speed out of them to make nanoing a worthwhile venture.
Not really. Ships that were designed to go fast will still go fast. There's just too many ways now to increase your speed, none of which have any kind of penalty against each other:
MWD Overdrives / Aux Thrusters Nanos / Polycarbs Snakes Skirmish Warfare Links
Just one or two of those is fine - with just MWD + 3 Overdrives a Vagabond still easily reaches 4.5km/sec, which is fine.
Take all 5 however and you have a Vagabond that goes over 15km/sec with a T2 fit (23km/s overloaded). That is what's unbalanced. Sure it takes a lot of ISK and SP to achieve that, but it's not as if they arn't readily available nowadays.
Let's look at all the ways you can improve your shield tank then (none of which get stacking penalties with the others, and most of which get no stacking penalties at all, even with other modules effecting the exact same attribute):
Various hardeners/resistance rigs (which only get stacking penalties even to each other on the same damage type) Shield extenders/extender rigs Shield boosters Shield boost amplifiers Shield power relays/purger rigs Power diagnostic systems Crystal implants Various command ship bonuses ...
|
Dianeces
Minmatar The Illuminati.
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 02:45:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Take all 5 however and you have a Vagabond that goes over 15km/sec with a T2 fit (23km/s overloaded).
Bull****. Post this setup. Right now.
As for the rest of your poast:
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Not really. Ships that were designed to go fast will still go fast. There's just too many ways now to increase your speed, none of which have any kind of penalty against each other:
MWD Overdrives / Aux Thrusters Nanos / Polycarbs Snakes Skirmish Warfare Links
Overdrives and Aux Thrusters stack. Nanos and polycarbs stack, but do not increase your speed. None of the implants stack, else we'll have to introduce stacking penalties for Slaves with plates and Crystals with Shield Boost Amps.
Your whole poast smacks of ignorance. Try to do better next time.
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 02:46:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Let's look at all the ways you can improve your shield tank then (none of which get stacking penalties with the others, and most of which get no stacking penalties at all, even with other modules effecting the exact same attribute):
Various hardeners/resistance rigs (which only get stacking penalties even to each other on the same damage type) Shield extenders/extender rigs Shield boosters Shield boost amplifiers Shield power relays/purger rigs Power diagnostic systems Crystal implants Various command ship bonuses ...
At what point does the shield tank become immune to all damage?
Never?
Thought so. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
|
|
Dianeces
Minmatar The Illuminati.
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 02:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
At what point does the shield tank become immune to all damage?
Never?
Thought so.
The same point when the speed tank does.
|
Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 02:50:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 15/04/2008 02:51:32
Originally by: Hannobaal
Let's look at all the ways you can improve your shield tank then (none of which get stacking penalties with the others, and most of which get no stacking penalties at all, even with other modules effecting the exact same attribute):
Various hardeners/resistance rigs (which only get stacking penalties even to each other on the same damage type) Shield extenders/extender rigs Shield boosters Shield boost amplifiers Shield power relays/purger rigs Power diagnostic systems Crystal implants Various command ship bonuses ...
That's because a shield booster or an armour rep isn't going to tank a thing by itself, except maybe a Crow. There really isn't a huge benefit in having it equipped at all, even.
An MWD on the other hand works just fine by itself and is infinately more useful than not having one at all.
Quote: Overdrives and Aux Thrusters stack. Nanos and polycarbs stack
Hence why I put them together, and said 5 instead of 7 Learn to read pls. ...
|
Dianeces
Minmatar The Illuminati.
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 02:53:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Quote: Overdrives and Aux Thrusters stack. Nanos and polycarbs stack
Hence why I put them together, and said 5 instead of 7 Learn to read pls.
I'm still waiting for your 15km/s T2 Vaga.
|
Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 02:56:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Quote: Overdrives and Aux Thrusters stack. Nanos and polycarbs stack
Hence why I put them together, and said 5 instead of 7 Learn to read pls.
I'm still waiting for your 15km/s T2 Vaga.
T2 MWD 3 Overdrives, 1 Nano II 2 Polies HG Snakes Claymore w/ Mindlink. ...
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 02:59:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 15/04/2008 03:01:07
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Quote: Overdrives and Aux Thrusters stack. Nanos and polycarbs stack
Hence why I put them together, and said 5 instead of 7 Learn to read pls.
I'm still waiting for your 15km/s T2 Vaga.
T2 MWD 3 Overdrives, 1 Nano II 2 Polies HG Snakes Claymore w/ Mindlink.
Yeah, took me about 30 seconds to get a 14.5km T2 vaga with Snakes in EFT. Doesn't seem to take rocket science.
Edit- I had 2 lows and 3 mids to spare, but I just stopped there. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 03:00:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Wet Ferret
At what point does the shield tank become immune to all damage?
Never?
Thought so.
The same point when the speed tank does.
Let me rephrase that to "99.9% immune to damage", then. So sorry. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
|
Dianeces
Minmatar The Illuminati.
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 03:02:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
T2 MWD 3 Overdrives, 1 Nano II 2 Polies HG Snakes Claymore w/ Mindlink.
I found your problem. You're including 3b worth of implants and several months of training time. I can guarantee you less than 1% of all nano-pilots regularly fly around with HG Snakes and a max-skilled, mindlinked Claymore. You can't use extremes as examples.
|
Dianeces
Minmatar The Illuminati.
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 03:03:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Let me rephrase that to "99.9% immune to damage", then. So sorry.
Why do I have to fit LSEs on my Vaga if I'm 99.9% immune to damage?
|
Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 03:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Dianeces I found your problem. You're including 3b worth of implants and several months of training time. I can guarantee you less than 1% of all nano-pilots regularly fly around with HG Snakes and a max-skilled, mindlinked Claymore. You can't use extremes as examples.
Still over 13km/sec with a Low-grade set, which is under 1bil - more than affordable to a lot of people these days. Still over 10km/sec with no implants whatsoever.
...and considering that most nano-pilots are high-SP and Minmatar-specced anyway, It's not as if a Claymore pilots are rare. The Mindlink itself is only 7mil and takes 2 months tops. to train for - hardly extreme considering the stupendous advantages it provides, is it? ...
|
Dianeces
Minmatar The Illuminati.
|
Posted - 2008.04.15 03:24:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Dianeces on 15/04/2008 03:28:36
Originally by: Rawr Cristina The Mindlink itself is only 7mil and takes 2 months tops. to train for - hardly extreme considering the stupendous advantages it provides, is it?
Claymore.
Originally by: Wet Ferret
(it really isn't that extreme, considering no faction/deadspace mods)
Reference my poast about how many people are able to actually attain such speeds on a regular basis. It is extreme.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |