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Ace Fox
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:26:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ace Fox on 15/04/2008 16:34:15 Edited by: Ace Fox on 15/04/2008 16:30:18 According to the rules this is not allowed. I thought that many of the members here have a rude and snottyness to them which I think isn't too cool but in case you don't know it's against the rules to not be respectful to others at all times. That is not fair to us who want to participate in conversations but because of put downs from especially experienced players it's not possible to have a descent conversation and when you correct them it just leads to more abusive remarks. I find that very rude and unappropriate but apparently this goes on a lot because these people seem to act very flagrant and talk down to you because you don't know something or they just don't care to or are unwilling to abide by some standards of communicating. That is disrespectful to others and makes alot of unneeded friction in the game which turns the game into a hate portal insted of a learning portal. If you correct these people they just become more angry it seems and they seem to act like a pack of mad wolves once one gets started. I sincerely hope you don't act like this in public. You know I'm older but I've always strived to act prudently regardless of age and I think you should respect my right to participate in a game I enjoy as I am a technology buff and I like space please don't ruin my experience. This is a good game and a game for others to communicate but not when there's rudeness and people that break rules that are meant to prevent this. Just because you are experienced in the game does not give you the right to use that to talk down to people or act insultive. If someone ask a friendly question you should not act like their dumb. People ask questions to learn and you shouldn't talk down to them because you are abusing knowledge.
Rules that you have to obey:
Be respectful of others at all times. The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting.
Ranting is prohibited A rant is a post which is long-winded, redundant and filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents.
Personal attacks are prohibited. Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts which are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing an "in character" dispute become an "out of character" personal attack. The game is designed for role playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum, please, unless it is clearly a mutual, in character exchange.
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DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:31:00 -
[2]
Edited by: DubanFP on 15/04/2008 16:37:48 I regularly post ideas & stuff on the forums & almost never get flamed. Although some people do disagree I actually make an attempt to hear them out or reach a middle ground. Generally if you know what most people in EVE want, and are willing to accept the world doesn't revolve around what YOU want the community is very friendly.
P.S. It's easier to blame others for flaming you then it is to admit you're the reason you get flamed isn't it? _______________
ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR |
Del Soliara
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:38:00 -
[3]
you can't nerf being rude and obnoxious... I just got it trained to lvl V... Down with CCP!
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Ace Fox
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Del Soliara you can't nerf being rude and obnoxious... I just got it trained to lvl V... Down with CCP!
"It is possible to disagree without being insulting. "
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:44:00 -
[5]
To be blunt Ace Fox posting the rules is a very good way to attract the trolls. The forums are as they are because if you over moderate any forum you quickly kill the desire to post on said forums which leads to a problem for the game. So long as someone doesnt start to personally and verbally harrass someone to the extreme, IE calling them out because of their politics, religion, and so forth its pretty much goin to fly. Its your choice to log onto these forums and its your choice to be offended at what you read or dont read on here.
In short, grow a tougher skin and dont take what someone types on a computer so personal.
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Dianeces
Minmatar The Illuminati.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ace Fox I find that very rude and unappropriate but apparently this goes on a lot because these people seem to act very flagrant and :words:
You misused the word "flagrant." Just sayin'.
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Tchell Dahhn
Amarr Deny Reality
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:45:00 -
[7]
"Be respectful of others at all times. The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting."
The rule says "Be respectful of others" and not "Show respect to others", which means something completely different.
Unfortunately, while I am respectful of the fact that others are here, I do not always (nor must I) have to show respect to them in my posts.
Why? Because sometimes, they're just jerks, and are not worthy of my respect.
Semantics, FTW!
The Tchell Dahhn Manifesto |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:48:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 15/04/2008 16:51:10
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 15/04/2008 16:37:24 I regularly post ideas & stuff on the forums & almost never get flamed. Although some people do disagree I actually make an attempt to hear them out or reach a middle ground. Generally if you know what most people in EVE want, and are willing to accept the world doesn't revolve around what YOU want the community is very friendly.
P.S> It's easier to blame other people for flaming you then it is to admit you're the reason you get flamed isn't it?
Duban is right, if you don't come off as arrogant, clueless or abrasive, most people won't flame you. However, as your OP comes off (particularly to experienced players who try to contribute and not just troll) as arrogant and somewhat abrasive. I honestly can't decide if you're intentionally posting this as flamebait or not.
Remember, this game appeals heavily to greifers and asshats of all stripes. Don't try to pretend that some of that won't spill over into the forums, and if the mods warned/banned every near-troll they saw, most of us would have been gone long ago. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Tchell Dahhn
Amarr Deny Reality
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis Remember, this game appeals heavily to greifers and asshats of all stripes.
/me tries to figure out whether I fall under the definition of 'griefer' or 'asshat'.
The Tchell Dahhn Manifesto |
Del Soliara
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ace Fox
Originally by: Del Soliara you can't nerf being rude and obnoxious... I just got it trained to lvl V... Down with CCP!
"It is possible to disagree without being insulting. "
I respectfully submit that it would be inappropriate and disgraceful to limit the ability of being Rude and Obnoxious, as I have just spent much of my time training it to level V... Let's gently lift CCP off of their high horse and lay them gently on the ground, so that we may carefully walk on them.
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Ace Fox
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Posted - 2008.04.15 16:59:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ace Fox on 15/04/2008 17:01:12
Originally by: Jacob Mei To be blunt Ace Fox posting the rules is a very good way to attract the trolls.
Ok so like a woman wearing shorts in public and she might get raped.. Ok I see the rationale here. Isn't that against the rules no? That gives validity to the case I have about the general attitude that has been propagating and keeping people silence and I'm sure loosing members. About getting thicker skin I agree with you to an extent and is why I'm speaking out instead of just being silent and knowing my place so to speak. Eve should clean up the trolling the game is not just about the act of playing. Anyway I thought it important to note but take it with a grain of salt if you want but I think it makes a better man to assert one selfs for something meaningful. Yes it is just a game one takes it to another level by getting personal and out of charcter like insuating someone is dumb because they don't know what an expienced player knows. Personally that's what I thought the forums where for and why I came here to ask simple questions. My actual complaint is not just an attack on me but the general attitude that I have seen inflicted on other members which I found disgraceful and saw it my duty to stand up to them. Thanks for you comment by the way I appriciate the input for all it's worth.. nuff said.
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Tchell Dahhn
Amarr Deny Reality
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Del Soliara I respectfully submit that it would be inappropriate and disgraceful to limit the ability of being Rude and Obnoxious, as I have just spent much of my time training it to level V... Let's gently lift CCP off of their high horse and lay them gently on the ground, so that we may carefully walk on them.
I disagree... ...you idiot.
While it is possible, it's much more fun to disagree and be insulting!
The Tchell Dahhn Manifesto |
DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:02:00 -
[13]
Edited by: DubanFP on 15/04/2008 17:05:21
Originally by: Ace Fox
Originally by: Jacob Mei To be blunt Ace Fox posting the rules is a very good way to attract the trolls.
Ok so like a woman wearing shorts in public and she might get raped.. Ok I see the rationale here. Isn't that against the rules no? That gives validity to the case I have about the general attitude that has been propagating and keeping people silence and I'm sure loosing members. About getting thicker skin I agree with you to an extent and is why I'm speaking out instead of just being silent and knowing my place so to speak. Eve should clean up the trolling the game is not just about the act of playing. Anyway I thought it important to note but take it with a grain of salt if you want but I think it makes a better man to assert one selfs for something meaningful. Yes it is just a game one takes it to another level by getting personal and out of charcter like insuating someone is dumb because they don't know what an expienced player knows. Personally that's what I thought the forums where for and why I came here to ask simple questions. My actual complaint is not just an attack on me but the general attitude that I have seen inflicted on other members which I found disgraceful and saw it my duty to stand up to them. Thanks for you comment by the way I appriciate the imput for all it's worth.. nuff said.
Seriously can you PLEASE for the love of this planet & everything on it start using paragraphs?
Also it' not the lack of knowledge that gets people flamed. It's the lack of willingness to adapt to eve rather then changing EVE to fit their needs. Some people come on here and refuse to accept that not everyone is going to like everything about the game, or even the game itself. Then try to self-martyr themselves when something does go wrong. _______________
ReiAyanami> We bring you tidings of AARRRRRRRRR |
Tchell Dahhn
Amarr Deny Reality
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ace Fox Big bad wall o' text.
I appreciate what you're trying to say, but I would ask if you could please try and utilize proper paragraphs, so that it would be easier for us to figure out your point.
Also, I do not appreciate your comment about 'rape', and would ask you if you could please edit that.
The Tchell Dahhn Manifesto |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ace Fox Edited by: Ace Fox on 15/04/2008 17:01:12
Originally by: Jacob Mei To be blunt Ace Fox posting the rules is a very good way to attract the trolls.
Ok so like a woman wearing shorts in public and she might get raped.. Ok I see the rationale here. Isn't that against the rules no? That gives validity to the case I have about the general attitude that has been propagating and keeping people silence and I'm sure loosing members. About getting thicker skin I agree with you to an extent and is why I'm speaking out instead of just being silent and knowing my place so to speak. Eve should clean up the trolling the game is not just about the act of playing. Anyway I thought it important to note but take it with a grain of salt if you want but I think it makes a better man to assert one selfs for something meaningful. Yes it is just a game one takes it to another level by getting personal and out of charcter like insuating someone is dumb because they don't know what an expienced player knows. Personally that's what I thought the forums where for and why I came here to ask simple questions. My actual complaint is not just an attack on me but the general attitude that I have seen inflicted on other members which I found disgraceful and saw it my duty to stand up to them. Thanks for you comment by the way I appriciate the input for all it's worth.. nuff said.
Comparing what someone says on a online forum to the possibility of a woman getting raped because shes wearing shorts in public is quite a stretch. If you have a problem with what someone says take it up with the moderators as they are the only ones that CCP has put in place to decide what can be said on their forums and what cant be. In short it is -their- duty to stand up for the players that are personally attacked provided the attack is outside of what the mods consider acceptable banter.
These forums are here as a common meeting point for all the players in the game and you can not expect that the bad apples in the group are not going to with hold their comments. If you are looking for a eve online related forum that keeps your definition of a troll out then you really need to join a corp to get that.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:20:00 -
[16]
Ace Fox, has a point. The situation got worse in the last years. Since some people claim that E-Honor does not exist and of course they are right and wrong at the same time. There is no such thing as E-Honor, but what exists is basic respect for another human being, regardless if this is in the internet or the real world.
It would be a good start if ad hominem attacks would stop. Attack the arguments, but not the person that made the arguments.
If you see that someone made a post that you totally disagree with, then pick the arguments and point out why he or she is wrong. Never, under no circumstances let the arguments derail with personal attacks.
For example, tell him why he is wrong and not that he is in worthless corp/alliance and therefore his arguments do not count.
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Balen Organa
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:35:00 -
[17]
yeah got my first shake of it when I said hello for the first time today. Instantly got a few whips and nails thrown at me just because I was making a few joking references to some other...starry galaxy far away and I was actually bashing that game. Not exactly the warm welcome I was expecting and I hate bad first impressions.
I still think this is generally a very good community, and a good game.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.04.15 17:42:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ace Fox That gives validity to the case I have about the general attitude that has been propagating and keeping people silence and I'm sure loosing members.
Here's the thing though, for every one who quits because of that, some bloodthirsty greifer will step up to take their place. Eve is unique partially BECAUSE it lets us be bloodthirsty greifers/asshats if we want to (see: Goonswarm).
This is not to say we should be flaming newbies indiscriminately, but I maintain that noobs are fair game (note different spellings, one is simply new, the other is ignorant and refuses to do anything about it). I tend to give people in the newbie forum benefit of the doubt, but GD and Features and Idea/Game Development, I assume you have some clue what you're doing.
Yes, ad hominems are bad, but they are easy, and the Internet is conducive to easy. It's much easier and faster to say 'noob, fly with a better gang' then to give specific counter-setups or tactics (and it may be in your best interests to keep such things quiet). It should be mentioned that RL analogies are frowned upon here as well. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.04.16 05:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Balen Organa yeah got my first shake of it when I said hello for the first time today. Instantly got a few whips and nails thrown at me just because I was making a few joking references to some other...starry galaxy far away and I was actually bashing that game. Not exactly the warm welcome I was expecting and I hate bad first impressions.
I still think this is generally a very good community, and a good game.
I read that thread, and didn't see anything that would be called flame worthy. Some people attempted constructively to give you feedback. If you equate criticism with flames, you may find Eve difficult.
And this brings up a good point. Many people now seem to think that anyone who disagrees with them, no matter how considerate and though-out their replies.
This is not flaming. Flaming is, "You suck. Go back to WoW." And that's not needed. Saying, "Your idea is bad, because..." is not a flame or abusive. |
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.04.16 05:40:00 -
[20]
I insult people because one time this guy called me an emo whiner and it turned me off of Eve forever. I've never played the game or posted on the forum since. |
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2008.04.16 06:03:00 -
[21]
Edited by: SoftRevolution on 16/04/2008 06:03:26
Originally by: Ace Fox Edited by: Ace Fox on 15/04/2008 16:34:15 Edited by: Ace Fox on 15/04/2008 16:30:18 According to the rules this is not allowed. I thought that many of the members here have a rude and snottyness to them which I think isn't too cool but in case you don't know it's against the rules to not be respectful to others at all times. That is not fair to us who want to participate in conversations but because of put downs from especially experienced players it's not possible to have a descent conversation and when you correct them it just leads to more abusive remarks. I find that very rude and unappropriate but apparently this goes on a lot because these people seem to act very flagrant and talk down to you because you don't know something or they just don't care to or are unwilling to abide by some standards of communicating. That is disrespectful to others and makes alot of unneeded friction in the game which turns the game into a hate portal insted of a learning portal. If you correct these people they just become more angry it seems and they seem to act like a pack of mad wolves once one gets started. I sincerely hope you don't act like this in public. You know I'm older but I've always strived to act prudently regardless of age and I think you should respect my right to participate in a game I enjoy as I am a technology buff and I like space please don't ruin my experience. This is a good game and a game for others to communicate but not when there's rudeness and people that break rules that are meant to prevent this. Just because you are experienced in the game does not give you the right to use that to talk down to people or act insultive. If someone ask a friendly question you should not act like their dumb. People ask questions to learn and you shouldn't talk down to them because you are abusing knowledge.
Rules that you have to obey:
Be respectful of others at all times. The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting.
Ranting is prohibited A rant is a post which is long-winded, redundant and filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents.
Personal attacks are prohibited. Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts which are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing an "in character" dispute become an "out of character" personal attack. The game is designed for role playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum, please, unless it is clearly a mutual, in character exchange.
Yiff in hell, furr troll. EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
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Posted - 2008.04.16 06:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ace Fox
According to the rules this is not allowed. I thought that many of the members here have a rude and snottyness to them which I think isn't too cool but in case you don't know it's against the FORUM rules to not be respectful to others at all times.
That is not fair to us who want to participate in conversations but because of put downs from especially experienced players it's not possible to have a descent conversation and when you correct them it just leads to more abusive remarks. I find that very rude and unappropriate but apparently this goes on a lot because these people seem to act very flagrant and talk down to you because you don't know something or they just don't care to or are unwilling to abide by some standards of communicating. That is disrespectful to others and makes alot of unneeded friction in the game which turns the game into a hate portal insted of a learning portal.
If you correct these people they just become more angry it seems and they seem to act like a pack of mad wolves once one gets started. I sincerely hope you don't act like this in public. You know I'm older but I've always strived to act prudently regardless of age and I think you should respect my right to participate in a game I enjoy(1) as I am a technology buff and I like space please don't ruin my experience. This is a good game and a game for others to communicate but not when there's rudeness and people that break rules that are meant to prevent this.(2) Just because you are experienced in the game does not give you the right to use that to talk down to people or act insultive.
If someone ask a friendly question you should not act like their dumb. People ask questions to learn and you shouldn't talk down to them because you are abusing knowledge.
Rules that you have to obey On the Forums:
I've added paragraphs to make your text more readable. I've also added bolded text where you seem to have missed a few things.
The comments on Italics are responded to below:
1)While we respect your right to participate in a game you enjoy, you should also respect the rights of others to do the same. The rules you posted apply to the forums, not in-game.
2)Again the rules you present are meant to be for the forum only. Not in-game. If you feel someone is being offensive in-game,the correct action to take is to petition. If the GM's agree that the comment was particularly offensive, then they will deal with it. |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.04.16 06:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ace Fox these people seem to act very flagrant and talk down to you
Welcome to the internet. |
Varopriest
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.16 07:08:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Varopriest on 16/04/2008 07:10:58 I too am an older player....(ancient, fosil, saw Jesus at his first concert old). The first couple times on the forums here, I thought much the same way that the OP did. Fortunately I read a great deal more of the posts before saying anything.
Most of the individuals that are getting "flamed" are starting new posts on issues that they could easily find the answer for with a little searching. Or they are posting whines about how Eve is harsh and unfair. I think if you spend a little time reading the posts, and you will see a pattern to the ones that both attack and are attacked in the forums.
For the most part I enjoy reading the forums here, nothing like a little chuckle to brighten one's day!
(edit) One of those sentences didn't make sense to me!
Remember: "That which does not kill you, makes you giggle. And tends to change your native language to Smackinese." |
slipshade
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Posted - 2008.04.16 07:31:00 -
[25]
Well as a player myself that has played for 4 and a half - 5 years..i think it has been on the increase actually..
But think of it like highschool (iam struggling to remember them days let me tell ya)..we all start of as the "freshmans"..and eventually end up as "seniors".
cop it on the chin, and go about ya business....if its really racist/abusive ect..petition it (note griefing is not abuse)
If u have questions, there are places where u can ask and where you are not likely to be "noob-stoned"
Making posts like this, only say to the greifers "hey look we are getting attention, lets do it more"
goodluck and godspeed
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Seetesh
Caldari Pixels Docks
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Posted - 2008.04.16 08:24:00 -
[26]
Well i can agree with some of this, alot of people can be quite rude and they flame each other which isn't too mature, however some are quite friendly and respectful. It's just the way things are and we wont be able to change other people to fit into our ideal's. Someone was rude to me yesterday but that doesn't mean im immature enough to flame them back. And i would never treat someone as if they're dumb, and i admire those who are respectful and decent i could name a whole list of good decent players, some are running for the CSM and i will be voting for them.
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Frug
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.04.16 08:31:00 -
[27]
Often times being rude and insulting is justified.
Especially when people are so lily-livered that they can't handle it.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Ren Surkova
Down In Flames
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Posted - 2008.04.16 11:09:00 -
[28]
tbh 'hate portal' sounds way more fun than 'learning portal' not sure where you got the portal part, or learning for that matter.
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Face Palmer
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.16 11:26:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum I insult people because one time this guy called me an emo whiner and it turned me off of Eve forever. I've never played the game or posted on the forum since.
To the OP, it's just a game about internet spaceship pixels and this is a forum about a game about internet spaceship pixels.
Also, as someone else implied, this thread is trollfeast.
Can I has urs stuffs?
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.04.16 11:34:00 -
[30]
I jsut ghet use to it ...
--------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment -KB- |
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