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Blake Ice
Gallente Northern Star Enterprises Northern Star Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.18 04:13:00 -
[1]
This is the point where you have a skill tree full of 3 and 6 hour skills. This is not in-line with the customer. It's like a pub having happy hour at 2:00PM. The pub would lose business. People wouldn't go to the place after work out of spite...as they would feel cheated.
Allow the customer to allocate enough skills to train for at least 24 hours.
Why CCP has not taken the time to redesign the skill window is quite frankly beyond me. |
Estel Arador
Minmatar AFK
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Posted - 2008.04.18 05:40:00 -
[2]
Never had that problem |
Zifrian
Gallente Gallente Federal Bank Interstellar Corporate Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.18 05:57:00 -
[3]
I wish all I had were skills that trained for 3 or 6 hours :( |
Takeshi Yamato
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Posted - 2008.04.18 06:07:00 -
[4]
I also find those 4-10 hour skills incredibly annoying. Especially because I have like 20 of them. |
Recon Three
181st Legion
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Posted - 2008.04.18 07:56:00 -
[5]
I like the 20 day skills. ^-^ __________
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Salpad
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Posted - 2008.04.18 07:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Recon Three I like the 20 day skills. ^-^
I guess I dislike all skillz with training times shorter than 18 hours or longer than about 4 days. Does that make me weird?
-- Salpad |
cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.04.18 08:16:00 -
[7]
I personally have been most annoyed by the skills that are too short to train while I'm off-line, but too long to finish during my online times. 'Course, the easy solution to that is just to train it in snippets while I'm online. Really long skills (ie: multiple weeks, a month, or more) are easier to cope with psychologically. |
Melme Rahka
Minmatar Vulcan Foundry
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Posted - 2008.04.18 08:26:00 -
[8]
I really hate skills with training between 8 and 16 hours, since it takes me about 17 hours from going to sleep till I come back from work. So I have to split it over 2-3 days and train something long between.
But I learned and now I always have a 2d+ skill ready for those times (and if not, I can always go for a lvl 5).
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.18 10:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Takeshi Yamato I also find those 4-10 hour skills incredibly annoying. Especially because I have like 20 of them.
10 hour skills are great. Set one, go to work, it's done when you get back.
Most of the 6-hour skills are faced in the first month or two. After 6 months, it's all 6-day skills. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.18 10:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Melme Rahka I really hate skills with training between 8 and 16 hours, since it takes me about 17 hours from going to sleep till I come back from work. So I have to split it over 2-3 days and train something long between.
But I learned and now I always have a 2d+ skill ready for those times (and if not, I can always go for a lvl 5).
You could always switch yr PC on, change skill, shut down again while you're waiting for your toast. |
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Derfyl Cadarn
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Posted - 2008.04.18 10:59:00 -
[11]
I reckon we ought to be able to line up say 3 skills to train |
Melme Rahka
Minmatar Vulcan Foundry
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Posted - 2008.04.18 12:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Melme Rahka I really hate skills with training between 8 and 16 hours, since it takes me about 17 hours from going to sleep till I come back from work. So I have to split it over 2-3 days and train something long between.
But I learned and now I always have a 2d+ skill ready for those times (and if not, I can always go for a lvl 5).
You could always switch yr PC on, change skill, shut down again while you're waiting for your toast.
I could, but: Wake up, get dressed, wash face/teeth, drink coffee (that gf made since she's waking up an hour earlier), get keys, go out, open eyes (get back in for umbrella if needed)= 10 minutes max.
Remembering passwords and remembering what computer is at all.... way too long. And I am not asking gf to turn it on when she wakes up, cause I [gf_quote] ...already play too much... [/gf_quote]
Something to chain skills would be very welcome, even if it is only one. |
J Valkor
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.04.18 15:41:00 -
[13]
I like 20 day skills. 15-20 is ideal. That way I just get a million SP in one go instead of having to manage multiple smaller skill trees.
That is why, I suppose, I have been avoiding training up drones. Just a series of 1-6 hour skills. |
Spud Gunn
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Posted - 2008.04.18 17:34:00 -
[14]
Eh, I just have one or two "big" skills that I'm training, and chip away at all the crappy little ones for a few hours at a time during the week. And they're not going to redesign the skill window or implement queues - people have been asking for it almost since day one, if they were going to do so they would have by now. It would lead to even more people doing nothing but logging on once a day to queue up another skill.
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.04.18 19:54:00 -
[15]
rather than skill queuing, skills should just continue to train until they are at level 5.
Hate Farmers? Click Here |
Kage Toshimado
Kage Clan
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Posted - 2008.04.18 20:04:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kage Toshimado on 18/04/2008 20:05:25
Originally by: Blake Ice This is the point where you have a skill tree full of 3 and 6 hour skills. This is not in-line with the customer. It's like a pub having happy hour at 2:00PM. The pub would lose business. People wouldn't go to the place after work out of spite...as they would feel cheated.
Allow the customer to allocate enough skills to train for at least 24 hours.
Why CCP has not taken the time to redesign the skill window is quite frankly beyond me.
Hey! We all had to suffer through this when we were training so now you do too! Quit trying to get out of those late night/morning skill change sessions.
Sheesh..the nerve of some noobs. This ain't Burger King!
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Blake Ice
Gallente Northern Star Enterprises Northern Star Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.18 23:16:00 -
[17]
Skill advancement without having to be online is an often talked about feature of Eve. No grinding to advance. It is a great feature--on paper. As it is currently implemented, it is more frustrating than grinding. Be honest here, it is more frustrating than grinding.
All of this can be solved with simply looking at the customer pattern for using the product. My pub example is spot on. People use the product on daily cycles of approximately 24 hours. CCP just needs to acknowledge this.
It is still beyond me why CCP has not done this. Allow the customer to set their skills so they don't have to concern themselve until the next time they play.
I understand the point about throwing a level 5 skill to train. However, those four 6 hour skills mean more to my ability to do what I want to do than getting level 5 in most skills.
Does anyone know the reason CCP has not changed this. I'd really like to know.
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Salpad
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Posted - 2008.04.19 00:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Derfyl Cadarn I reckon we ought to be able to line up say 3 skills to train
Or just set up any queue where all skillz except the last total a training time of under 24 hours.
Damn, if we got that, I'd so polish of quite a number of small partial skill levls that I haven't bothered finishing.
-- Salpad |
Blake Ice
Gallente Simtech Productions Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.19 06:21:00 -
[19]
Amen Salpad :-)
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.19 09:38:00 -
[20]
Originally by: voogru rather than skill queuing, skills should just continue to train until they are at level 5.
Well I agree with this.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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WillisCorto
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Posted - 2008.04.19 15:15:00 -
[21]
I like the idea about a skill just keep training up as touted above. Can see some downers - go away on holiday and find you done Freighter to L5.
But better than coming back and realizing you had no training for 2 weeks.
Actually I like it more and more. I would love to kick off a rank 2 or 3 skill and just leave it to get to L4. Now that is a good idea.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.19 15:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: WillisCorto I like the idea about a skill just keep training up as touted above. Can see some downers - go away on holiday and find you done Freighter to L5.
But better than coming back and realizing you had no training for 2 weeks.
Actually I like it more and more. I would love to kick off a rank 2 or 3 skill and just leave it to get to L4. Now that is a good idea.
it's also a lot more limited than allowing 2,3,...n skills in a queue. training for level 1 to level 5 is only 25% more time than level 4 to level 5. So it can't be abused by people racking up a bunch of high-rank level 5s and cancelling their sub until BS 5, Carrier 5, Dread 5 complete.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Elhina Novae
Amarr Stone Shadow Syndicate deadspace society
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Posted - 2008.04.19 15:38:00 -
[23]
Skill que with maximum 1 skill in line after the first, that also gets de-activated when you're account expires?
I also have a problem, currently i've been training level 5 skills for months and now i find these few hour long skills to be extremely annoying -.- Somebody set up us the bomb |
Ratri Wickersham
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Posted - 2008.04.19 16:13:00 -
[24]
The problem is the whole min max attitudetowards time and skill advancment. If you havea skill you need, and it takes 4-6 hours to train, what makes more sense? do it piece meal and delay its use for several sessions, or knock it out and lose 3 or 4 hours of training? Look, the game costs 50 cents a day to play. Losing 1/6 (working day) * 22 (working days/month) = 3.7 days of untrained time in one month, during which 22 skills were completed. For less than $2, a player can make significant gains in 22 skills.
So, for a training time investment 22 * 11 hrs = 242 hrs, one willhave lost about 25 percent in maximum efficency of skill traing /time. However, the alternative is to spend your weekends juggling your shorter skills with your life. IMO, for the adult, occupied, casual player, the min/max approach to skill training is absurd. One should rather just be glad that progress can be mnade, and that while at work, one more skill level is getting knocked out. Eventually we end up with the multiple days, weeks, and longer training times for skill advancement. Even if I lost 5 a total days in the earlier period of my advancement, it will later seem insignificant.
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Ralara
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.19 21:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Blake Ice This is the point where you have a skill tree full of 3 and 6 hour skills. This is not in-line with the customer. It's like a pub having happy hour at 2:00PM. The pub would lose business. People wouldn't go to the place after work out of spite...as they would feel cheated.
Allow the customer to allocate enough skills to train for at least 24 hours.
Why CCP has not taken the time to redesign the skill window is quite frankly beyond me.
eh?
Week 2 is the 3-6 hour skills - 6 months is the 1-4 week ones :D |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.04.19 22:23:00 -
[26]
The game have been going on for FIVE YEARS now, and those who have played all or many of these years have found a way around it.
its really simple:
1. Train short time skills when online. As soon you have to log set a longer skills! 2. Save longer skills till off-line periods. 3. Do skill managament! Train skills partially to get them to a fitting period of time!
Honestly, Skill management is just as important part of the game play as shooting, mining and missioning! After 5-6 months short time skills will be few.
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.19 22:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Blake Ice This is the point where you have a skill tree full of 3 and 6 hour skills. This is not in-line with the customer. It's like a pub having happy hour at 2:00PM. The pub would lose business. People wouldn't go to the place after work out of spite...as they would feel cheated.
Allow the customer to allocate enough skills to train for at least 24 hours.
Why CCP has not taken the time to redesign the skill window is quite frankly beyond me.
eh?
Week 2 is the 3-6 hour skills - 6 months is the 1-4 week ones :D
this lol
hmm bc 5 or bs 5? funnily enough my alt just hit 20mil sp and the skills that are at lv4 or so I don't want to go to 5 and I have trouble training the really short stuff (stupid school hours)
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Blake Ice
Gallente Simtech Productions Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.20 05:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Honestly, Skill management is just as important part of the game play as shooting, mining and missioning!
But should it be? Skill management is more of a hassle than grinding. At least when you have to grind, it is on your schedule...not the game's. The feature of training when you aren't online is by far shadowed by skill management.
Anytime I see or hear a conversation about Eve, the skill hassle comes up...not a word about the feature of training offline.
I'm simply amazed CCP hasn't addressed this one area, so other people will talk about the offline training feature except for their own PR.
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Kery Nysell
Caldari Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.04.20 12:22:00 -
[29]
Well, when I was at my 6th month, almost all my skills were in the 15+ days range ...
Skill Management is a integral part of this game, and it's quite easy, but you have to think, ponder and plan for it to work.
Let's face it boys and girls, eVe is a HARD game, where you need more than a few braincells to rub together to get somewhere.
If the simple planning of setting short skills to train when your online and long skills when your offline is too much for you, I'd suggest getting back to WoW, or better yet, stop MMOs altogether. <~ sig starts here
My Skills |
Blake Ice
Gallente Simtech Productions Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.20 13:27:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kery Nysell Let's face it boys and girls, eVe is a HARD game, where you need more than a few braincells to rub together to get somewhere.
Skill management requires no braincells above a 1st grade level. Unless clock reading 101 was a course you had to take in college. ;-)
"Skill advancement while offline" is the feature CCP thinks appeals to the casual gamer. Facts are there if you just see it. The implementation drives them away after 6 months.
I'm astounded that CCP hasn't addressed this yet. They must have some reason. I really wish I knew what it was.
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