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Shirley Serious
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.18 15:27:00 -
[1]
The NPC corporations don't like you shooting players belonging to them, so you get a standings loss every time you shoot someone.
Well, who really wants to do missions or refine ore in University of Caille stations? Maybe when Ambulation comes out and all the cool people are walking about in their UoC star athlete letter jackets it would be a different story, but meh.
There is a problem though, in that one of the NPC corporations that Amarr players get moved to after quitting player corporations is Viziam - one of the Amarr R&D corporations. Shooting them means attempting to use the Viziam R&D agents becomes harder. This does not seem to happen with the other races.
So, I think in the interests of balance, that either a different corporation replaces Viziam as a dropout NPC corp, OR, the other races also get to dropout to a R&D corp, thereby making those R&D corporations as hard to gain standings with.
Summary: Shooting NPC corp players + gain standings with Duvolle laboratories = easy Shooting NPC corp players + gain standings with Viziam = hard
Either make the first one hard, or the second one easy. I'd go for making the second one easy, as making them all equally hard is a disincentive to shoot people. |
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.04.18 15:56:00 -
[2]
PC's in NPC corps wrecks this game on so many levels. |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.04.18 16:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds PC's in NPC corps wrecks this game on so many levels.
QFT
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Faife
Blackrain Solutions Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.04.18 16:43:00 -
[4]
I don't see why. It's a valid tactic and a clever way to make people have to choose what's worth more to them.
As to the fact that it's an Amarr only thing, eh, think of it as their missing frigate. |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.18 16:47:00 -
[5]
Why don't we make it universal and have your standings with various factions/corps actually effect something?
So if you keep killing Perkone members, Perkone stations deny you docking rights Seriously though; you decided to shoot someone, quit whining about detriments.
Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.04.18 16:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Faife I don't see why. It's a valid tactic and a clever way to make people have to choose what's worth more to them.
As to the fact that it's an Amarr only thing, eh, think of it as their missing frigate.
Well obviously it's valid since it's not exploiting game mechanics and tons of people do it with no gm intervention. That doesn't mean it should be that way though.
Newb scouts are already a little more useful than they should be, IMO. They provide a very valuable service with no risk, but hopefully they'll be changing the way scouting and local works such that those scouts won't be as useful.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.18 16:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds PC's in NPC corps wrecks this game on so many levels.
QFT
Agreed.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Faife
Blackrain Solutions Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.04.18 17:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gimpb
Originally by: Faife I don't see why. It's a valid tactic and a clever way to make people have to choose what's worth more to them.
As to the fact that it's an Amarr only thing, eh, think of it as their missing frigate.
Well obviously it's valid since it's not exploiting game mechanics and tons of people do it with no gm intervention. That doesn't mean it should be that way though.
Newb scouts are already a little more useful than they should be, IMO. They provide a very valuable service with no risk, but hopefully they'll be changing the way scouting and local works such that those scouts won't be as useful.
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Shirley Serious
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.18 17:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Why don't we make it universal and have your standings with various factions/corps actually effect something?
So if you keep killing Perkone members, Perkone stations deny you docking rights
I think that would be a good thing. Consequences for actions is part of what Eve is supposed to be about, is it not?
Quote: Seriously though; you decided to shoot someone, quit whining about detriments.
The issue isn't the loss of standings as such, it's the assigning of players to a corporation that the standings loss makes more of a difference.
E.g. for Gallente players Start in Federal Navy Academy, University of Caille or Centre for Advanced Studies. Drop out to The Scope, Garoun Investment Bank or Aliastra (are there any others?). What consequences are there to having poor standings with those corps? Few, if any that I can see.
But for Amarr players One of the corporations they drop out to is Viziam. There are consequences to having poor standings with them - not being able to use their R&D agents.
So, for Gallente players, there are few consequences to shooting them, but for Amarr players, there are more.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
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Posted - 2008.04.18 17:09:00 -
[10]
Boohoo, your pvp is cutting into your carebearing. Sounds like a good example of risk vs reward to me. Get over it.
-- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes. |
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Shirley Serious
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.18 17:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn Boohoo, your pvp is cutting into your carebearing. Sounds like a good example of risk vs reward to me. Get over it.
No, it is a bad example of risk vs reward, in that it does not affect all npc corp players equally.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
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Posted - 2008.04.18 17:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shirley Serious No, it is a bad example of risk vs reward, in that it does not affect all npc corp players equally.
You're right, Eve is unbalanced! Oh noes! No Viziam datacores for you. Or you could avoid shooting players in Viziam. Or, you could train up a carebear alt to get the cores instead. I keep hearing a good phrase for it... adapt or die? Yeah, that's the one.
-- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes. |
Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.18 18:04:00 -
[13]
All those who care about the issue should create alts in Viziam, and send them into enemy alliance territory just to screw with their Viziam standings.
Until this exploit is exploited, nothing is going to be done about it.
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.18 18:11:00 -
[14]
Adapt or die.
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Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.04.18 18:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Why don't we make it universal and have your standings with various factions/corps actually effect something?
So if you keep killing Perkone members, Perkone stations deny you docking rights Seriously though; you decided to shoot someone, quit whining about detriments.
We're playing a PvP game.
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.18 18:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shirley Serious The NPC corporations don't like you shooting players belonging to them, so you get a standings loss every time you shoot someone.
It it just shooting? I have seen this topic show up before and I thought it was just for podding players in an NPC corp. If it is just for poddings.... don't pod and your fine.
An additional option is don't have a PvP pilot with a Viziam R&D agent.
It's not so hard, really.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.18 18:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Euriti
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Why don't we make it universal and have your standings with various factions/corps actually effect something?
So if you keep killing Perkone members, Perkone stations deny you docking rights Seriously though; you decided to shoot someone, quit whining about detriments.
We're playing a PvP game.
And so? PvE give bad standing with several factions, so why you should cry if PvP give some malus to at most 12 corporations (not even factions, simply corporations)?
Think how it would be if firing on the just trained boys and girls from the Gallente schools would give you a malus with the Gallente faction. RP vise it would be only logic, "you kill our boys, we hate you".
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.04.18 18:52:00 -
[18]
50% tax rate on NPC corps seems reasonable to me.
And yeah, losing standings to R&D corps for one particular bloodline does seem a bit wrong.
Either all or nothing IMO - everyone's 'npc' corp moves to R&D corps, or no ones is. I'd prefer the latter, because frankly being able to hide in NPC corps I consider one of the bad points of EVE, and think there should be very strong incentives not to do it. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.04.18 19:11:00 -
[19]
Make it kinda universal. Whenever you pod someone you loose standing with corps that like the victim more than they like you and you should gain standing with corps that hate the victim more than they hate you. Probably add some minimum and maximum standing and standing differences to curb exploitation. |
Shirley Serious
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.18 19:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ki Anna All those who care about the issue should create alts in Viziam, and send them into enemy alliance territory just to screw with their Viziam standings.
Until this exploit is exploited, nothing is going to be done about it.
Consider the likes of one of the Amarr role-play corporations. They would probably be using the Viziam R&D agents to get T2 ships and gear. Any of their pilots so doing would have a problem in participating in defending their space against Viziam corp players, as that would affect their ability to use the agents. It would be a choice between preserving T2 supply and losing space, or keeping space but losing the T2.
While e.g. Gallente role-play corporations don't need to make that choice. |
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Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.18 19:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Shirley Serious
Originally by: Ki Anna All those who care about the issue should create alts in Viziam, and send them into enemy alliance territory just to screw with their Viziam standings.
Until this exploit is exploited, nothing is going to be done about it.
Consider the likes of one of the Amarr role-play corporations. They would probably be using the Viziam R&D agents to get T2 ships and gear. Any of their pilots so doing would have a problem in participating in defending their space against Viziam corp players, as that would affect their ability to use the agents. It would be a choice between preserving T2 supply and losing space, or keeping space but losing the T2.
While e.g. Gallente role-play corporations don't need to make that choice.
I agree that this is a bad thing, and needs to be fixed. It is one of the dominate reasons why I would want to stay out of a 0.0 alliance.
However, historicly, things tend not to get fixed until they are a problem. Examples might include privateer war decs, 0-day courier contracts, and most recently shuttle recycling.
Until someone pulls together an army of Viziam alts and begins to systematicly invade alliance territories, CCP is unlikely to do anything about it. |
Corstaad
Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv
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Posted - 2008.04.18 19:47:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Corstaad on 18/04/2008 19:47:57 I happen to live just outside of the Brutor area and happen to kill quite a few of the newer rifter pilots from that npc corp. I decided to look at my standings the other day and noticed I'm at 4.3 standings down from 8.5 or something. This is after frequent podding and ship kills. Its not really that big of a hit. |
RigelKentaurus
Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2008.04.18 21:26:00 -
[23]
Viziam has no lvl 4 R&D agent, so does that really matter? _________
Someday, EVE may look like this. |
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