|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 09:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
firstly, I like the idea of Linux dominating the world and Windows going down. I love such comments, they make me smile. By the time this will happen could we perhaps be flying real spaceships, too. Who knows?!
As some have already mentioned was there once a native client for Linux and it got dropped. We should not force CCP to make another one when they already made the experience.
I like the idea of improving EVE itself to run better with WINE and older hardware best. Not only does Linux win but we gain more players, too. CCP shall avoid features that demand high hardware requirements and have 1-2 people to look after Linux/WINE compatibility. |
Whitehound
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 18:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nebu Retski wrote:There never was a native client, it was a something like cedega wrapped around the win client (pretty much as the mac client is now) and even then eve ran supposedly better under wine. It was as native as it could be for CCP. The Windows client is not a native client either by your definition, because it runs on Python, needs some other open source libraries to run and is only a 32bit application. What mattered most was how it was advertised, sold and supported. As such was it a native client.
The discussion itself takes place at a pretty bad time, because CCP had to cut staff not too long ago and we are living in a time of a boring economy. Other game makers expand out onto the console market to survive, because the PC market itself is not very large. Therefore asking CCP to do a native Linux client is not going to happen. You will have a better chance with asking for an EVE client for the XBox 360. |
Whitehound
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 13:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nebu Retski wrote:LoL, the windows client is native because all the code can be compiled into windows binaries ... Still, it is irrelevant. Take all your software development knowledge and throw it away, because strictly speaking are 32bit Windows binaries when run under 64bit Windows not native either and need support to run in a 64bit environment. 32bit Windows binaries run native under Linux with WINE, because WINE Is Not an Emulator. You could go as far as saying that any software that is not a 64bit C/C++ application, which directly interfaces with the operating system and hardware, are not native applications on either Linux or Windows. Some of EVE's code was compiled with GCC some with M$V8. Why draw a line?! Even the shader code needs to be compiled by DirectX and OpenGL before it can run on the GPU. You are trying to draw a line somewhere, which serves no purpose. Your argument is pointless in this discussion, because it is not about what you see as native and lack to understand, but what gets support through CCP! |
Whitehound
26
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mythas Rothron wrote:Hmm...this is right and wrong. 1) 32 bit binaries in x64 windows--this statement was completely wrong. x64 Windows does not emulate the cpu instruction set for a 32-bit processor; today's cpu's can run either code set natively, translated at the binary level. I think you're referring to the multiarch libraries, that allow the 32-bit applications to be run "natively" on a 64 bit machine. I was not and still am not not talking about emulation. The problem is in the calling conventions between libraries, which needs to be worked around. There is noting native about it. |
Whitehound
27
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 17:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bent Barrel wrote:but that's just mode changing in the dynamic library loader ... a 32bit app cannot load a 64bit library and vice versa, so NO translation is needed. you need a complete 32bit environment for an 32bit application to run on 64 bit OS. Mythas is correct on that part. No, he is not correct. He believes there is something native about running EVE under Windows opposed to running it under Linux. He is trying to draw a line between the two based on his idea of what makes it native so that he can call one to be native and the other not. Yet he knows that there are many different layers involved between EVE's client code and the operating system. He does this to have an argument and to say that Linux needs a native client. It does not need one and drawing a line in there somewhere is utterly pointless.
If anything then WINE needs to get better. Or the EVE client needs to be written in C/C++ rather than Python. |
Whitehound
27
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 11:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bent Barrel wrote:please note that I was replying to one specific part of the whole discussion. that's whay the quote function is there ....
if you check earlier, I am not a fan of a native client, however I'd like some wine consideration during development ....
as to you c/c++ vs python comment, the programming language has no effect. it's the platform bindings that do (directx being the biggest one). The whole point of this discussion is the need for speed. CCP mentioned some time ago that parts of their client are written in C++ and others in Python. They say that it is good enough and only the DirectX stuff which is written in C++ iirc. However, seeing how they improved text rendering recently would a client written entirely in C/C++ (and properly optimized by a compiler) likely give a noticeable speed boost over the current Python based code. When I turn off the UI with CTRL-F9 then my frame rate goes up from 40-50 fp/s to a solid 60 fp/s. This is quite a bump. I am pretty sure that this is because of the Python code doing UI stuff. Only CCP will really know why this is. |
Whitehound
27
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 16:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bent Barrel wrote:however it does not matter how the client is coded if it depends on windows native services/libraries. even if it was entirely c++, we'd still need wine to run it. But what is the point of saying this?! You still will need Windows to run the C++ programs, too. You cannot run them without an operating system. WINE Is Not an Emulator... It is a binary loader and linker just like you have under Windows and Linux. Linux has got an ELF and a.out loader in kernel space. WINE is the same thing only does it run in user space and it loads Windows binaries. |
|
|
|