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Erzi Dlarit
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.02.28 22:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
i couldnt afford one in a million years but i'm curious to know how this works? not to pick on this one post as there are many similar but :
Modulated strip miner II
He is asking: Starting Bid: 20 bil Reserve: 75 bil Buy Out: 100 bil
If the sales value per year at Jita prices is 6.2bil isk why would anyone pay 75bil? wouldnt it take 12years to earn that back? Am i right in saying the price realisticly is 4-5times the jita profit per year?
hell i'm probably missing something here and somone is going to make me look like an idiot :-P
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Onlyasandwich
NewsRadio
7
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Posted - 2012.02.28 22:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
A TII BPO, or any BPO, doesn't have to completely pay for itself to be worth using. You can manufacture off of it for a while and sell the BPO to recoup that part of the investment.
Normal BPO's remain stable in value, or even appreciate with good research.
Tech II BPO's can be a solid investment even if you don't actively use them to manufacture. All this depends on shifting market demand, of course, but TII's in general are on a reliably upward trajectory.
These things aren't consumable, after all. |
Tidurious
The Dirty Rejects Scelus Sceleris.
131
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Posted - 2012.02.28 23:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Also, consider this: In addition to manufacturing items, the BPO can be copied and those copies can be sold. Researched T2 BPO copies can be valuable as well, and will help you make a profit. But yes, Only was right - BPOs retain value very well, so buy it, use for a year, then sell for initial purchase price + markup for research done, and you'll make a significant profit. |
Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
186
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Posted - 2012.02.29 06:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Collector items are worth something to collect and the manufacturing value of a T2 BPO is a bit nice. It might be worth offering a lowball order. But I wouldn't take the advice above seriously unless you're willing to put time in to sell such an item. The T2 BPO market isn't liquid. It takes a lot of effort to get a good sell price for one. And sellers sometimes resort to various deceptions (such as buying up the finished good to an elevated price or faking bids) in order to provide the illusion of greater value or demand than the T2 BPO warrants. This is definitely caveat emptor territory.
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Sola Mercury
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2012.02.29 08:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tidurious wrote:Also, consider this: In addition to manufacturing items, the BPO can be copied and those copies can be sold. Researched T2 BPO copies can be valuable as well, and will help you make a profit. But yes, Only was right - BPOs retain value very well, so buy it, use for a year, then sell for initial purchase price + markup for research done, and you'll make a significant profit.
It takes way to long, to make a copy. It's not profitable. T2 Prints are kind of expensive collector items. |
ApophisXP
Sadistic Retribution Sadistic Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.02.29 08:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Buy it, keep it for a year or two, sell it off, profit. |
Bad Bobby
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
33
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Posted - 2012.02.29 10:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
You can make a reasonable income from T2 BPO production, but you need to be choosy about which BPOs you purchase and you need to put in a fair amount of time and patience in order to get them at sensible prices.
You can also make good money from speculating on T2 BPO appreciation and this requires substantially less care because the T2 BPO bubble expands pretty reliably regardless of the BPO concerned. Of course, good decisions yield better results.
One of the better entry level examples from my own portfolio is one purchased at 5b, producing a reliable 5% per month in manufacturing profit and reselling after one year for 15b. This example involves doing some cost-effective research on the BPO, buying all materials in Jita, producing at a POS, using a 4% manufacturing implant and then selling in Jita via multiple small volume sell orders. You can further inflate your profits by selling at higher prices outside of Jita and buying materials cheaper elsewhere, but that profit could be had without buying a T2 BPO at all and therefore cannot be regarded as T2 BPO production profits as much as trading profits. |
Ozzie Asrail
Exploited
1
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Posted - 2012.02.29 11:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Assuming you're not an idiot and get the thing blown up you're always going to have the BPO as an asset to sell later on. I have no hard numbers but since returning after a couple of years it certainly seems the price of T2 BPO's have risen with inflation if not above it so seem a reasonably good investment. Especially if you're a good salesman or can find the right buyer later on!
It takes a fair bit of work to full realise the profits from one, I'd say that BPO is a bit over priced for the returns though.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
251
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Posted - 2012.02.29 11:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
The value depends, entirely, on CCP not nerfing them. Or removing them. As people keep calling for.
There is a risk involved in buying and holding them. The /intrinsic/ value exists, but I wouldn't peg it as high. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
150
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Posted - 2012.02.29 13:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
You assume that you have to make back the value of the item for it to be a profitable venture.
Without going into discussions on the value of the print itself but..
1) You get 6.2 bill a year in production 2) The print itself will slowly increase in value - probably to the tune of about 10% a year.
So lets say you keep it for three years then sell it.
You'll have made around 30 billion in profit.
Not a great ROI compared to other stuff, but you can see it's not an entire waste of money either... though there is of course the risk they will be nerfed (minimal in my opinion.)
In practice, T2 BPOs are a great source of completely passive income. |
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Bad Bobby
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
33
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Posted - 2012.02.29 14:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The value depends, entirely, on CCP not nerfing them. Or removing them. As people keep calling for. I disagree.
Outright removal of T2 BPOs is highly unlikely. CCP has made no serious noises in that direction and quite frankly it would be a silly idea. There may be a lot of nonsense on the forums about this subject, but there will always be nonsense on the forums about any and all subjects no matter what CCP does or doesn't do.
A nerf of some kind is possible, even likely, in the long term. Most likely it will be an indirect nerf, like T2 being eclipsed by new T3 or widely available faction items. Still, this is only a long term possibility and one that has always been the case, we can expect T2 BPO prices to continue as they have done in the face of this while it remains only a possibility.
There are many factors that are of greater significance than this in the short term and it's debatable how significant a factor this would be in the longer term. |
Brock Nelson
378
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Posted - 2012.03.01 01:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The value depends, entirely, on CCP not nerfing them. Or removing them. As people keep calling for.
There is a risk involved in buying and holding them. The /intrinsic/ value exists, but I wouldn't peg it as high.
*snicker*
Yeah, there's been talks of removing T2 BPO since they first came out and there will always be talks of removing it but CCP will never do it. Signature removed, CCP Phantom |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
254
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Posted - 2012.03.01 02:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
I didn't say how likely or unlikely it was. Just it's what the value depends on. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
23
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Posted - 2012.03.01 02:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
The key to making ISK off t2 BPOs is selling it off to some other idiot for more money than you paid. |
Bad Bobby
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
34
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Posted - 2012.03.01 06:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:I didn't say how likely or unlikely it was. Just it's what the value depends on. I know what you said and I disagree.
Other factors are far more important. So it doesn't depend on just that, it depends on a great many things one of the minor ones of which is that.
It's like saying it depends on Iceland not turning into a turnip. True, if Iceland turned into a turnip that would probably have an impact on the value of T2 BPOs, but it's not really high on the list of concerns for a T2 BPO trader.
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Ozzie Asrail
Exploited
1
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Posted - 2012.03.01 10:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Of course the opposite also happens. A good example might be that a few years ago the Neutron Blaster Cannon II would have been a profitable but not amazing BPO. Now with the hybrid/Gallente buff plus the release of the Talos it'll be worth a bunch more |
Bad Bobby
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
34
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Posted - 2012.03.01 10:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ozzie Asrail wrote:Of course the opposite also happens. A good example might be that a few years ago the Neutron Blaster Cannon II would have been a profitable but not amazing BPO. Now with the hybrid/Gallente buff plus the release of the Talos it'll be worth a bunch more It certainly goes both ways.
The buff to faction hulls and the introduction of T3 cruisers introduced viable alternatives to many T2 hulls.
T3 link bonuses made T2 command ships, that were already somewhat niche, fairly undesirable. But those same T3 link ships have made command links far more popular than they ever were with T2 command ships. A likely future re-balance to link vessels could well make T2 command ships significantly more popular, not just taking us full circle but ending with the T2 commands being more popular than they could ever have been without T3s popularising link use.
The introduction of faction items to LP stores has diminished the value of faction modules to the point that they are now much more competitive with T2. This combined with the increased wealth of the average EVE player is making faction fitting a lot more common.
The buffs to T2 ammo have made a significant difference to the desirability of not just the ammo but the T2 weapons that are needed to fire them. Granted there are still a lot of dreadful T2 ammo types, but that just gives more opportunities for the T2 trader to buy an cheap BPO and see it benefit from future buffs.
Recent tier 3 BC introduction has certainly made a difference to the desirability of large T2 turrets, but if you look back further you can see battleships (previously the only carrier for these weapons) became progressively less popular in combat as changes in the PvP metagame have favoured tier 2 BCs, HACs and T3s.
Look at how the leading PvP ship choices have changed over the years and the effect that has had on the market. Recall the times of fleets being made up of sniper apocs, megas and tempests. Then remember LR hacs, nano hacs and RR BS. The alpha BS and the AB HACs that counter them. The rise of the drake fleet and the abaddons as their counter. The now ever present tengu fleet. The metagame and shifting popularity of one module or hull is a much greater concern to the T2 BPO investor than any ghost stories about CCP sneaking in to their hangars at night and stealing their BPOs.
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Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
42
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Posted - 2012.03.01 13:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote: A nerf of some kind is possible, even likely, in the long term. Most likely it will be an indirect nerf, like T2 being eclipsed by new T3 or widely available faction items. Still, this is only a long term possibility and one that has always been the case, we can expect T2 BPO prices to continue as they have done in the face of this while it remains only a possibility.
I promise, as soon as I pick up a T2 BPO, there WILL be a nerf. Just be warned people. ;) |
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