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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:52:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Ture, but it can actually blockade run unlike the t2 haulers, have a combat fit and fit enough anti-tackling gear & combat to seriously make it a tough cookie to tackle. 1.4km3 cargo is low but then again, its a fairly decent amount to haul in the safety of a anti-tacker fitted cov op pilgrim.
Pilgrim, the proper Blockade runner that can actually stand a chance to run blockades
Mabe it is tiem for cov ops hualers for cargo pilots? Cuz recons for hualing is not rihgt. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment -KB- |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.20 19:55:00 -
[32]
A properly setup camp in low-sec could still fairly easily kill blockade runners before the HICTOR change. All they had to do was get a high med slot cruiser, armor tank it, remote rep it and remote sensor boost it.
Boom, you have the same hictor camp as before. Its maybe a tad bit more efficient now, but not enough to make a huge difference.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.20 20:05:00 -
[33]
Let me guess you have 2 cargo expanders in your low slots and used your rig slots for 2 more cargo rigs.
That's the problem, the blockade runner isn't meant to be a heavy hauler.
Try instead to use some other modules.
For lows, you might try inertial stabilizers.
You might also look at rigs that increase speed and/or agility.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.20 22:08:00 -
[34]
It may be just me, but.....
I don't see anything inherently wrong with a ship type NOT being totally invulnerable when traveling in low-sec.....
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.04.20 22:25:00 -
[35]
Quote: As for the Blockade Runner others are correct. Flown right they are very hard to catch even today. Although an instalocking HIC does seem a bit overpowered. With one of those present not sure how anyone would expect to get away.
Nano'ed Transport, Improved cloak II and a 10mn MWD. Align and cloak at the same time (nobody can instalock that!), decloak when the MWD burst finishes and you're warping off instantly to your target.
Quote:
I don't see anything inherently wrong with a ship type NOT being totally invulnerable when traveling in low-sec.....
Knowing what I know about the Transport class and lowsec ninjaing, I give the HIC more slack these days.
*however* While you're right nothing should be invulnerable in low sec, I don't believe something should have no counter beyond "blowing the ship up".
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Kolwrath
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.04.20 22:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kerfira It may be just me, but.....
I don't see anything inherently wrong with a ship type NOT being totally invulnerable when traveling in low-sec.....
But you are ok with a ship that can insta-scram everything in lowsec with infinite strength?
IMHO: an infinite scram to me seems kinda lame. CCP needs to get away from thier commit to a fight mentality .. shesh.
Originally by: Chaos Space Marines
Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood ANTHRAX DEATH
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Posted - 2008.04.20 23:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade *Click* 'Map' *Click* 'Ships destroyed in the last hour'
"Well I say old boy, there appears to be a huge zit on the map" "Really old chap? A big red zit you say? noooo, nonsense I say!" "Righto, jumping in..." .. ... **Fail**
Oh, and you don't want to be putting WCS on blockade runners, I'll leave it to you to figure out what you fit instead...
I suggest T2 cargo expanders and Cargohold Optimization II rigs.
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.04.20 23:30:00 -
[38]
Interceptors aren't very good tacklers if you don't fit a warp scrambler/disruptor.
Battleships do **** DPS if you put small guns on them.
Stealth bombers are worthless if you fit them with rockets and autocannons.
So why the hell did you expect a blockade runner to blow past gatecamps with just a bunch of cargo expanders fitted?
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:17:00 -
[39]
To rephrase you a little,
Quote: Interceptors are very good tacklers if you fit a warp scrambler/disruptor.
Battleships do big DPS if you put a gank fit on it.
Stealth bombers are awesome if you fit them with cruise launchers.
Problem here is, if you fit stabs on a transport ship, you still get tackled and popped.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.04.21 04:20:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg To rephrase you a little,
Quote: Interceptors are very good tacklers if you fit a warp scrambler/disruptor.
Battleships do big DPS if you put a gank fit on it.
Stealth bombers are awesome if you fit them with cruise launchers.
Problem here is, if you fit stabs on a transport ship, you still get tackled and popped.
Which is why you don't fit stabs on transports any more. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.21 05:01:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg To rephrase you a little,
Quote: Interceptors are very good tacklers if you fit a warp scrambler/disruptor.
Battleships do big DPS if you put a gank fit on it.
Stealth bombers are awesome if you fit them with cruise launchers.
Problem here is, if you fit stabs on a transport ship, you still get tackled and popped.
Filling a blockade runner's lows with warp core stabilizers wasn't the best of possible fittings even before heavy interdictors came along.
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.04.21 05:50:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 21/04/2008 05:50:57
Quote: Which is why you don't fit stabs on transports any more.
My point being *everything* to do with ships and flying has a counter in EVE (well, maybe not titans :P ). Warp core stabilizers are for nothing more than countering warp scrambling. Trouble is people know if you're sane you'll never, ever do that, since you'll be ganked, hicced or whatever in the align time you lose thanks to fitting stabs instead of nanos.
End of the day, WCS is pointless, the effect of a HICs warp-focusing script has zero counters, contrary to every other module in the game. Is this fair? Maybe. Doesn't change the fact WCS is less useful than structure tanking.
[QUOTE] Filling a blockade runner's lows with warp core stabilizers wasn't the best of possible fittings even before heavy interdictors came along.[/QUOTE] had 100% success before hics with it...
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.21 06:21:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Kolwrath
Originally by: Kerfira It may be just me, but.....
I don't see anything inherently wrong with a ship type NOT being totally invulnerable when traveling in low-sec.....
But you are ok with a ship that can insta-scram everything in lowsec with infinite strength?
IMHO: an infinite scram to me seems kinda lame. CCP needs to get away from thier commit to a fight mentality .. shesh.
Fit like the other guys around here have posted and show me a HIC that can lock/point a MWD+Cloaking T2 hauler. If it can still get a lock on you before you cloak or after you decloak to warp... YOU'RE NOT DOING IT RIGHT!
And I fly a dual SB II HIC in lowsec, yes it's got a good lock-on time... 800+scan res with gang and everything and no remote boost. But I'd say 90-95% of T2 haulers I've ever pointed/attempted to point have gotten away. That's a pretty good survival rate if you ask me. ------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
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gordon861
Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION
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Posted - 2008.04.21 10:56:00 -
[44]
Give the Blockade Runners 5% off the MWD penalties per level instead of the 5% shield boost. This would encourage people to train past level 1 on Transport Ships and enhance their survivability.
Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donĘt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe. |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.21 11:08:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Nano'ed Transport, Improved cloak II and a 10mn MWD. Align and cloak at the same time (nobody can instalock that!), decloak when the MWD burst finishes and you're warping off instantly to your target.
Thats a good idea, however thats only half the issue. You see, you warp to a gate that is bubbled. You land on edge of bubble and cloak. Bang you are as good as dead if the camp is competent.
Thats why people use Pilgrim as a Cov Ops blockade runner, because it can actually run blockades on both sides of a gate. This is because the pilgrim can warp cloaked. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Mr Fledermaus
Gallente Munich Global Activities
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Posted - 2008.04.21 19:16:00 -
[46]
Nice, that some people find out what i ment in this thread. Maybe i am not only to dumb to fit a blockade runner, my english is also to bad to say what i mean.
-> Map shows gate camps I know, the way i jump with my blockade runner is 90% of all times camped. Doesn't matter. If i would wait till uncamped i could not fullfill the needs. -> WCS instead of MWD and inertias I got an inertia, but mostly when i jump in a camp i got much snipers and only 1 or two tacklers (no HIC). I haul in lowsec now more than 1 year with less (now 2) losses. -> Cloaking/Aligning Yes, the people which would used this method in my last loss, would not be killed of this HIC.
But that points above is not the basic reason i start this thread for.
In my opinion, the HIC found his way in this game caused by ships like a Black Ops. It is nearly a must to balance allways the weapons for and against a new feature. Last year, a patch powered up blockade runners in agility by about 50%. The deathes of Transporters decreased a lot (look at killboards at this time). Now the positive effect is broken again by usage of HIC. A blockade runner is a low capacity hauler (about 4700m¦). It is used mostly for not fleet backuped transports in lower security regions. I wish another upgrade now, to fullfill the needs of this ship like it was before the HIC comes out. I have to break through camps with this ship and have to win this fight mostly. Using cloak device would be a good thing, but needs a lot of time to travel cloaked out of warp disruption fields. So one solution could be increasing speed in cloaked mode of blockade runners.
So i hope now you understand what i mean and write down your opinion about game balance using blockade runners in lowsec.
Thanks forward Mr Fledermaus
Theres allways someone who knows more....
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.04.22 07:51:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 22/04/2008 07:53:18
Originally by: Kolwrath
Originally by: Kerfira It may be just me, but.....
I don't see anything inherently wrong with a ship type NOT being totally invulnerable when traveling in low-sec.....
But you are ok with a ship that can insta-scram everything in lowsec with infinite strength?
IMHO: an infinite scram to me seems kinda lame. CCP needs to get away from thier commit to a fight mentality .. shesh.
Yup
All that was askled for from CCP is a ship that was able to scram the lowsec 'I win' solo MOMs that were jumping around lowsec with impunity
Instead, they give us the infinite point HIC, which (whilst nice in some ways) is no real improvement over the Lachesis in terms of tackling abilty (lachesis is arguably better still now).
Tackling ships in the lachesis though required teamwork, and a lot of support was needed to allow the lachesis to get the hig scan res and tank needed to hold down ships. This was all good - a gang working together to trap and kill a ship.
Everyone and their dog know flys a hic though. A ship which needs no support at all.
The infinite point was WAY overkill - and consigned a module (the warp core stab) pretty much to the dusbtin.
What CCP needed to do was simply make a module that can scram MOMs, but not be infiintie point.
At the same time they needed to deal with the cloak-mwd exploit, and the multiple logofski moving your warp in point bug.
Its so simple to do, its mindboggling why the element of cpp who are utter dense slackards refuse to even look at it.
SKUNK
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.04.22 08:01:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 22/04/2008 08:09:17 Edited by: Le Skunk RANTING
Originally by: Mr Fledermaus Using cloak device would be a good thing, but needs a lot of time to travel cloaked out of warp disruption fields.
Incorect. There are no warp disruption fields in lowsec.
Listen to what people are telling you. Listen to what I am telling you. A mwdcloak exploit blockade runner is 99.9% invunerable in lowsec.
SKUNK
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Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.22 10:42:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kolwrath
Originally by: Kerfira It may be just me, but.....
I don't see anything inherently wrong with a ship type NOT being totally invulnerable when traveling in low-sec.....
But you are ok with a ship that can insta-scram everything in lowsec with infinite strength?
IMHO: an infinite scram to me seems kinda lame. CCP needs to get away from thier commit to a fight mentality .. shesh.
What's wrong with you? There's a huuge amount of counters. Inertias, MWD+cloak, going back to gate, jamming. Just drop the WCS mentality and try to fit your transports accordingly.
There's only ONE ship-type threatening you in lowsec, and you're complaining?
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MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.22 11:43:00 -
[50]
I dont think blockade runners should be a get out of camp free card. Every camp dosnt have a hic and even the ones that do dont alway have a perfect set up to sang and stop you so it just another risk factor to take into account. Trying to get 1 ship solo thru a camp of 4-8 people shoudnt be easy if you ask me.
PS I dont gate camp and try to avoide them vs running them.
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Ioci
Gallente Ioci Exploration
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Posted - 2008.04.22 11:54:00 -
[51]
If you dictor a lowsec gate, you get sentry aggro, no?
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.04.22 21:13:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ioci If you dictor a lowsec gate, you get sentry aggro, no?
Hactors have no problems tanking sentries. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Ioci
Gallente Ioci Exploration
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Posted - 2008.04.23 03:46:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis
Originally by: Ioci If you dictor a lowsec gate, you get sentry aggro, no?
Hactors have no problems tanking sentries.
True but they grind away on you. Low sec camps don't stay up very long. I doesn't make the one guy they get feel any better but it makes low sec camps something you can wait out as a rule. |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.04.23 04:34:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 23/04/2008 04:35:21
Quote: I dont think blockade runners should be a get out of camp free card. Every camp dosnt have a hic and even the ones that do dont alway have a perfect set up to sang and stop you so it just another risk factor to take into account. Trying to get 1 ship solo thru a camp of 4-8 people shoudnt be easy if you ask me.
What a poster before said:
Quote: Interceptors aren't very good tacklers if you don't fit a warp scrambler/disruptor.
Battleships do **** DPS if you put small guns on them.
Stealth bombers are worthless if you fit them with rockets and autocannons.
So if you don't have *the best* available gear for camping, you won't take out *the best* transport ships fitted with *the best* gear.
Quote:
Filling a blockade runner's lows with warp core stabilizers wasn't the best of possible fittings even before heavy interdictors came along.
My bad, Transport Ship (i.e. bustard),, 5 stabs was a pretty useful (cheap) fit for most camps imo. Doesn't work to nano a Transport ship, you're still looking at about 5 secs for warpout.
Quote:
What's wrong with you? There's a huuge amount of counters. Inertias, MWD+cloak, going back to gate, jamming. Just drop the WCS mentality and try to fit your transports accordingly.
Never been instalocked hey? Took me a while before someone with proper skills and talent did it too.
But on the side, what's wrong with the WCS mentality? They have an *express* purpose to stop ships being jammed at some pretty chunky penalties that nerf any ship to death fitting them. It's the same reason why un-jammable MOMs were a problem.
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Galan Amarias
Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2008.04.23 04:34:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Gabriel Karade *Click* 'Map' *Click* 'Ships destroyed in the last hour'
"Well I say old boy, there appears to be a huge zit on the map" "Really old chap? A big red zit you say? noooo, nonsense I say!" "Righto, jumping in..." .. ... **Fail**
Always funny when I see this.
Does it occur to no one that someone must die before anyone else can note on the map that there is a big red zit of dead people?
If you are among the first to drive through after a camp is setup no amount of map gazing will help. Map has a notable lag in it.
As for the Blockade Runner others are correct. Flown right they are very hard to catch even today. Although an instalocking HIC does seem a bit overpowered. With one of those present not sure how anyone would expect to get away.
You know there is another option, "Active pilots in space for the last 30 min." Holy crap eight guys in that low sec, quick check is it Anamake? No? Ok There is a camp, find another route or plan to beat it.
As for the infinipoint. It's fine. So you can't counter it with warp core stabs, you can counter it with a MWD alone, back to gate. Or MWD + Cloak, Up up and away!
As for that nonsense, from someone else, about the Hactor being a solo pirate pawnmobile that is pure stupidity talking. It has no DPS. None. It must have friends to do it's killing.
-Galan
The answer to empire ganking |
Galan Amarias
Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2008.04.23 04:47:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg[quote
Filling a blockade runner's lows with warp core stabilizers wasn't the best of possible fittings even before heavy interdictors came along.
My bad, Transport Ship (i.e. bustard),, 5 stabs was a pretty useful (cheap) fit for most camps imo. Doesn't work to nano a Transport ship, you're still looking at about 5 secs for warpout.
This is about blockade runners, not transport ships. Transport ships are built slow and to have more cargo, flying one unescorted is like begging to die.
Quote: Never been instalocked hey? Took me a while before someone with proper skills and talent did it too.
Even instalock is slower than cloak. The human behind the hostile mouse click needs that fraction of a seccond to react to you on the overview.
Quote:
But on the side, what's wrong with the WCS mentality? They have an *express* purpose to stop ships being jammed at some pretty chunky penalties that nerf any ship to death fitting them. It's the same reason why un-jammable MOMs were a problem.
Not quite. They have a hefty penalty if you try to fot them to a combat ship. There is no serious penalty to fitting them to a blocade runner, save the obvious one of it preventing you from fitting something else, like I-stabs which may have saved you.
As for what's wrong with the mentality, it's passive and out dated. WTZ forced the low sec camps to the exit side of the gate where the defender gets to start cloaked, gets a minute of said free cloak to size up the situation and make a descision, and forces the campers to tank guns. While tanking guns isn't hard it does require advanced planning and teamwork. The new camp pushed all the agressors into scram range, that change alone necesitates a change in thinking of those planning to run said camps.
-Galan
The answer to empire ganking |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.04.23 04:52:00 -
[57]
Quote:
As for what's wrong with the mentality, it's passive and out dated.
Skimping details a bit, but that's exactly my point. WCS have no place in EVE anymore. They look pretty, and that's about it. Even then, they're pretty useless.
Improve Market Competition! |
Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.23 05:30:00 -
[58]
Quote: What CCP needed to do was simply make a module that can scram MOMs, but not be infiintie point.
Yeah, the solopwnmobile (MOM) I'm sure was the intended target of the HIC.
So what did this change really do? It tells people : Pffft screw that, hauling in Low blows even worse than before, so I won't. It also makes the Crane and others like it (WCS bonus), completely useless now when you encounter a HIC and everybody and their brother uses em, and it's going to get even worse in numbers as time passes.
*shrugs* *sells Crane*
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Ioci
Gallente Ioci Exploration
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Posted - 2008.04.23 19:54:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Soporo
Quote: What CCP needed to do was simply make a module that can scram MOMs, but not be infiintie point.
Yeah, the solopwnmobile (MOM) I'm sure was the intended target of the HIC.
So what did this change really do? It tells people : Pffft screw that, hauling in Low blows even worse than before, so I won't. It also makes the Crane and others like it (WCS bonus), completely useless now when you encounter a HIC and everybody and their brother uses em, and it's going to get even worse in numbers as time passes.
*shrugs* *sells Crane*
Good choice. Eve is less pvp and more cow farming/ mail farming at least in low sec. Any ship designed to 'beat' the PvP variation is a trap and a time sink. That is what all these 'solutions' have in common. Take longer, alot longer to do secondary tasks related to mining. People see it a mile away and mine in high sec or feed a POS in null. The devious time sinks don't work on anyone but noobs and only works well on them once. The it's confirm cancellation time. CCP doesn't care because they have plenty of cattle to feed the slaughter house and untill they are hurting there, it won't change. By then it will be too late. I'm not griping because it's my opinion Eve has more players than it can handle and if 20K active subs quit next week, the game would be a better game. If CCP got addicted to the money, they should get addicted to the solutions needed to keep those subs. Otherwise, suck it up buttercup. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.23 20:21:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 22/04/2008 08:09:17 Edited by: Le Skunk RANTING
Originally by: Mr Fledermaus Using cloak device would be a good thing, but needs a lot of time to travel cloaked out of warp disruption fields.
Incorect. There are no warp disruption fields in lowsec.
Listen to what people are telling you. Listen to what I am telling you. A mwdcloak exploit blockade runner is 99.9% invunerable in lowsec.
SKUNK
Hell, a Raven can get past most lo-sec camps with this trick.
I remember the thread about it...
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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