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Mara Rinn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.21 05:10:00 -
[31]
EVE's character development system means that there is no "end game". The WoW 'end game' is for people who have no imagination, since you have to kill the exactly the same enemies over and over again just to get something they drop so you can get on to killing the next enemy over and over again. It's mindless grinding.
The bit I dislike most about WoW is that to change your play style, you have to roll an alt and grind those levels all over agan.
In EVE, you just buy a new ship, fit it out as required, and off you go! One day you're a mining mogul, the next you're Dread Pirate Roberts! You don't have to roll alts, you don't have to grind levels all over again. Just go out and do what you want to do, be what you want to be.
WoW is slave labour. EVE is empowerment!
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.04.21 06:49:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Joe Eve's leveling System prevents Players like 'anthene' who can power lelvel a Wow character to lvl70 in 1 day and a couple of hours.
I think Eve's Dev's got it right the first time.
Is he doing a Borat or is he the real dork? Someone send the guy and his boyfriend a set of mirrors.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Cailais
Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.21 08:04:00 -
[33]
I left WOW for a number of reasons, not least of which was the fact that i couldnt play with the same level of intensity as others in my guild. As they outleveled me there was less we could achieve together (unless they wanted to run a quest at several levels below them).
EVE however has a far better system as an MMO for my lifestyle - I simply dont have to sit at the PC 23/7 in order to improve my character. On the down side, waiting a month to get BS V is a form of torture
C.
New Scanner Idea!
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.21 08:15:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dristra
Originally by: HenkieBoy Bit pointless to skill for Cruiser lvl5 in WoW
Not when you finish skilling battleship to 5! Burn wow burn! Linkage!
EVE > WoW
/thread ------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.04.21 08:39:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Raem Civrie
I think the hobby world needs to get over it's collective man-crush on levels though. Even in p&p roleplaying, some of the better systems eschew them (<3 GURPS).
On a tangentially related note - White Wolf's World of Darkness system, of which CCP is creating a MMO adaption, uses such a level-less system!
That means, even in the future, CCP is going to supply us with nice alternative advancement systems... and the hope remains that WoD Online will also be low on the grinding.
Bored during Downtime? Why not try Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN! |
Evita Achura
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.21 08:48:00 -
[36]
I was like THIS close to going super troll when I saw "I played wow." *sigh* ok I'll give a real response.
I do think that it is silly to compare wow to eve simply due to the fact that the games are wildly different in both mechanics and goals.
There is no "End Game" content in eve. Realistically speaking it would take 22 years (with this character) to train every skill in the game. I live in 0.0 pvp mine trade mission depending on which ever account I feel like playing for a few hours a day and thats it. If I walk away from the game for a few weeks I lose nothing. I gain training time, with other games you MUST grind to level XX and have skill YY and have item ZZ in order to do "insert super cool awesome end content here." All of which you gain by following a set path from zone a to b to c. Eve is not strictly a linear game, eve does not operate like that. Yes there are linear aspects in training but you can diverge from the line at any time in any other direction without losing progress anywhere else.
Other games enforce some form of consensual pvp model, and discourages (or out right bans) untrustworthy and antisocial behavior. This makes the concepts of good and evil, in a game, pointless. Eve again does not implement such measures. It allows you to activly role play without requiring a great deal of effort on your part it lets you be who ever you want to be at the moment you want to be it. Eve is within a whole different mind set. While incorporating individual parts of eve into other mmo's may or may not benefit them, it is ultimatly pointless to consider it because they are not eve. rather they are not in the mind set of eve.
This is an open sandbox. Other games are not. They are worlds with set rules designed about bringing a player from point a to point b and encouraging the player to believe that point b is always better than point a. That point b will kick point a's ass repeatedly simply for being point a. In eve this is not the case as we can clearly see with the rise and fall of major corporations alliances and individual players. Some older some younger all fielded on a much more diverse playing field than simply point a and b.
Ok there you made me stop trolling for once and post a real reply. Hope you are happy.
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Chag Gradur
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Posted - 2008.04.21 09:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Evita Achura
I do think that it is silly to compare wow to eve simply due to the fact that the games are wildly different in both mechanics and goals.
The topic was not a comparison topic. It was a question of whether EvE's unique skill system could be implented in some more "traditional" MMO's. I chose World of Warcraft as an example, because I had the experience of playing it for some time.
Originally by: Evita Achura
Ok there you made me stop trolling for once and post a real reply. Hope you are happy.
One less troll is always good
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Evita Achura
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.21 09:05:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Evita Achura on 21/04/2008 09:05:37
Originally by: Chag Gradur ...
Fixed. That was supposed to be deleted before I posted. :)
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Tyr Zewa
Caldari Tax Collectors
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Posted - 2008.04.21 09:10:00 -
[39]
You don't have to play eve to train skills, that's kinda nice. The drawback is even if you'd be willing, had the time and the money you can't "powerlevel" or "grind" a skill. You're just stuck waiting, which especially for new people can be even more annoying than "grinding".
On the other hand, both games have the same kind of grind for isk at some point, either you grind mission or do your dailies to get money but in the end it's repeating the same thing over and over.
Also for all those who think you have to grind to level in wow, not anymore 2.3 or 2.4 completely changed it.
Always try to see both sides of an argument, i myself still stand by the statement that pve is as inexistent or flawed in eve as pvp is in wow. Want pvp go play eve, want pve go play wow, of course there a middleground too, based on your time and your will to commitment.
Having a rather young char myself, and alot of time i wouldn't mind being able to grind skills in eve, or reasign sp from now crappy minnie skills to current top amarr skills etc.
Why people are looking for "the best" in mmo's is something i don't get either you play mmo's to have fun with friends and maybe get to know new friends.
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Joe
Umbra Legion
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Posted - 2008.04.21 09:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: Joe Eve's leveling System prevents Players like 'anthene' who can power lelvel a Wow character to lvl70 in 1 day and a couple of hours. I think Eve's Dev's got it right the first time.
Is he doing a Borat or is he the real dork? Someone send the guy and his boyfriend a set of mirrors.
He's a troll, and posts those vids for the attention, the most shocking thing in the whole video is the fact that people CAN power level that quickly
I think eves system is quite good, in the time it takes to learn things like battleship lvl 5 players can familarise themselves with battleships to the piont where they wont loose a maruader the first week they fly it.
its dissapionting hearing that white wolfs new game wont be using a lvling system, i allways like talking about 'dots' while playing changling
Pe0w |
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Ordon Gundar
Caldari Impending Doom Inc. The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.21 10:17:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Cobra Ball Edited by: Cobra Ball on 20/04/2008 16:48:37 For me, it must be my ADD or something. I played WOW for about 9 - 10 months and never got a character to 70. Now normal people could get several toons to 70 in that time. Nope, not me. Each time i got a character to around 20, i started to get bored with them and began to wonder if i would like another class more. So off I went, first playing a Shaman, then a Mage, then a Warrior, then Priest, and so on and so on. I realized that one class simply could not hold my interest long enough to grind my way to 70.
But then i found Eve. Here, i can do whatever i want and play whatever "class" i feel like. I want to fire missles? no problem, i started as a Caldari and i naturally started with those. Then i started to realize just how ugly Caldari ships are and how much i like to use drones. So off i went to train Galente, blasters, rails, drones, etc.
hmm, maybe i will want to go into production next...
That is the beauty of this game. I don't have to start a new character grind all over again when i want to do something else.
I hear that!! I was the same. I got my Rogue main to level 48, and thats where he still is!! Also, when doing instanced dungeons or raiding, the way each class has to be played is so rigid, it is mindnumbing. If you are a Rogue, its stun, DPS, DPS, DPS etc, if you are a Warrior its Tank Tank Tank..and you get insulted by 13 year old boys if you do something "wrong" or noobish!
I prefer the more "grown up" atmosphere in EvE. Its like living you own Iain M Banks life in space, without feeling like there is someone tugging at your sleeve all the time telling you that killing the same boss twenty times to pick up a set of armoured trousers is the way to go!
There is definitely a tangible "wall" that you hit when you get to level 40-ish in WoW. You are at a crossroads. You need to decide to (1) hand you life over to end-game in order to keep up, or (b) spend the rest of your WoW career killing grey mobs and dancing on the top of Ironforges flight point! Or you could roll another toon and start again! Ordon Gundar - Low Sec Survivalist & CEO of Danger Zone Enterprises |
John Holt
Strategic Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.21 11:16:00 -
[42]
We may very well see an Eve type training system in a fantasy type MMO. CCP is working on "World of Darkness" now and they are sure to include many of the things they have learned from Eve into it.
John Holt My Personal Eve Site |
ry ry
StateCorp Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.21 11:19:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Dristra
Originally by: HenkieBoy Bit pointless to skill for Cruiser lvl5 in WoW
Not when you finish skilling battleship to 5! Burn wow burn! Linkage!
i dunno, the minmatar ship next to the raven might cause it some issues.
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Zorai Miraden
Gallente East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.21 11:55:00 -
[44]
Originally by: John Holt We may very well see an Eve type training system in a fantasy type MMO. CCP is working on "World of Darkness" now and they are sure to include many of the things they have learned from Eve into it.
One of the posts above did state that World of Darkness will using a similar skilling system as EVE sports.
The fact that I still skill up online was one of the deciding factors in me choosing to play EVE over any other MMO. My only wish is that training times were faster.
I hope I'll be able to play World of Darkness when it comes out. Just as long as it's not Vampires in space. But if it's any like Vampire, Masquarade I think I'll love it. To bad the programers who made that game didn't do enough QA testing on it before it was released. The fan base had to fix it, and even then it still has a lot of bugs. Recruitment Thread EKT Website |
Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.04.21 12:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Zorai Miraden
One of the posts above did state that World of Darkness will using a similar skilling system as EVE sports.
Please don't misquote me there. I said that WoD (the pen&paper game) uses a level-less character progress system.
Greatly simplified, it works by paying XP to raise individual stats, abilities, or skills. You can do that at will, whenever you have XP, although actually getting some is often tricky (they're not rewarded for fights/encounters, for example, but rather for completed adventures). It is sorta EVE-like in the sense that most stats/skills/abilities have five levels through which you can raise them.
From certain base stats, a pseudo 'power level' can be derived, but this is only marginally useful - a character might choose to raise only skills and abilities for some time, and thus his power level derived from base stats does not change even though he grows in power.
(It is even recommended not to pump your power level too high too fast - as creatures of high power levels not only tend to attract lots of unwanted attention, but also can influence the fabric of reality around them. in a setting where keeping your powers secret is key, that is a very bad thing to happen )
Bored during Downtime? Why not try Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN! |
Amarth Thargan
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Posted - 2008.04.21 14:53:00 -
[46]
I always prefered the Elder Scrolls system.
You pick a few main skills, the odd secondary and the rest you keep for the hell of it. If you use your main skills you gain exp through using them, the more you use them the better they get. So you actually get better at swords by actually using them and you become more experieced (higher level) by improving in your skills as opposed to most rpg's where your skills improve after lvl-ing.
Eve's system is good aswell, but does feel a bit detached to have your skills improve, by doing nothing at all with them. Wow's system, as much as i love the game-setting, is to cry for. You have some skill improvement by using them, but the amount is still dependant on your level, even worse, the classes are almost set in stone.
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.04.21 16:35:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 21/04/2008 16:36:07
Originally by: Amarth Thargan
Eve's system is good aswell, but does feel a bit detached to have your skills improve, by doing nothing at all with them.
Lore-wise, pod pilots learn skills by literally hooking themselves up to their ship's computer and downloading the knowledge to their brain - think The Matrix, if you will. This is why it takes them only days to learn what a normal human needs to train years for. Therefore, whether the pod pilot uses these skills at the time of training or not is irrelevant - the learning program takes care of adding all the necessary neural connections that would result from natural learning and patient repetition.
So, yeah. While it may seem weird to you, it is at least explained in the background
Bored during Downtime? Why not try Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN! |
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