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Tony Unrau
Caldari Kraken's Teeth Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.22 18:33:00 -
[1]
Just curious, does this statement sound wrong to anyone other than just me?
(In a mission, in HIGH SEC) "Assisting loot thief's makes you invulnerable to concord's laws..." or how about: "If you assist a griefer, concord will not fire at you, instead they will look the other way"
Here's what happened:
- My friend and I were running a lev 4 mission in -> HIGHSEC <-, A loot thief jumped in and started to loot/salvage all the wrecks.
- He began to flash red, I locked and engaged him. He was in a T1 Minmatar cruiser, I got him down to armor as his buddies jumped in. Knowing full well if his friends attacked me they would be Concorded I continued my attack.
- A logistics ship, and a dominix targetted and began shield repping the loot theif. They both than began flashing red which the rules of engagement says I can engage them for 15minutes aswell.
- The T1 Cruiser (Loot thief) webbed/jammed me, my damage was not high enough to take him down and after 5 minutes of shooting, the logistics ship had repped his shield to 100%.
My only way out was to fire at the flashing red logistics ship, and than to pop the T1 Cruiser that was webbing/jamming me. I popped the Flashing red Logistics ship, and started on the T1 Cruiser again.
Now here is where concord screwed up, They jumped in a raven, and commenced the ganking... Where's concord?? I thought they werent allowed to fire at me? After all I am in HIGHSEC, and I am DEFENDING my wrecks. Im not flashing red, they are.... Whats wrong with this picture?
I lost A nighthawk + faction fittings worth 900mill because concord decided that if you are flashing red first and repping a loot thief its ok to gank someone defending their wrecks????
I should just go around looking for loot thiefs, throw on a small repper, and start ganking people in highsec!!, Either that or bend over and let them have their way.. Nice loophole
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.04.22 18:46:00 -
[2]
Petition it.
Unless it was logisticks ship pilot in that Raven that is. If it was then they can engage you 15 minutes after you have shot at them (including popping smaller ships like destroyer that looted some of your wreks or whatever) as long as you are agressed towards those specific pilots. |
Tony Unrau
Caldari Kraken's Teeth Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.22 18:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tony Unrau on 22/04/2008 18:50:47 I petitioned it, waiting back on a reply other than the mass reply.
Edit: The only ships I engaged were ones that flashed red. |
Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.04.22 18:56:00 -
[4]
Maybe the logistics pilot came back in the raven?
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.04.22 18:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tony Unrau [ Edit: The only ships I engaged were ones that flashed red.
Yes. But when you pop flashy red thing (logisticks pilot) he can go, dock, take another ship (Raven), undock, come back and still engage you without concord intervention if he does it within 15 minutes of going pop. That is if it was the same pilot in Raven that went pop in logisticks ship. If it was not then it's fishy.
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Tony Unrau
Caldari Kraken's Teeth Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.22 18:58:00 -
[6]
Not possible, the raven pilot was there while the logistics pilot was. Everyone entered at the same time and even if so, I never engaged the raven.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.04.22 19:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tony Unrau Not possible, the raven pilot was there while the logistics pilot was. Everyone entered at the same time and even if so, I never engaged the raven.
The logistic's pilot was just hanging out in his pod after you popped his ship? Also in the OP, you said the Raven jumped in after you described blowing up the logistics ship? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
White Ronin
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Posted - 2008.04.22 19:07:00 -
[8]
Correct me if I am wrong but here goes...
They agro you on a ship that cant pop you so you feel safe in attacking it. They warp in heavy support and rep him so there is no way in heck you can actually do anything but sit there and wait cause the ship you cant destroy is jamming and webbing you. You take the next logical course of action and pop the main support craft. The pilot of that ship (the logistics ship) then goes and gets his pvp fit ship and cleans your clock. You didnt stand a chance once you engaged the first ship. He could hold you there for hours or if you log then spend 15 min trying to blow you up and since your mods turn off when you log then you are effectively toast.
The pilot is the one who generates or recieves agro... not the ship. So it was totally within the rules for him to go get another ship and attack you. Unless the aggro timer shuts off after one of the participating ships is destroyed which I dont beleive it does.
And you can bet they scanned your ship to see what goodies they were gunna get within a few min of the encounter.
In the future your best bet is to either warp away and be happy with your ships survival or shoot the wrecks as they are yours and therefore cause them to waste time.
It is an obvious abuse of game rules but it is within the rules.
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Tony Unrau
Caldari Kraken's Teeth Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.22 19:15:00 -
[9]
Responce:
"We are sorry to hear about your ship loss. Unfortunately we are unable to reimburse the ship as our server-side logs do not indicate that a bug/error within the game or a server related problem was the reason for your loss. This does not mean that we doubt your description of events in any way but I'm afraid it keeps our hands tied in regards to reimbursement.
Our reimbursement policies are very strict and we can only reimburse if we are able to verify that a bug or server error caused the loss. We hope that you understand our position and that you will recover swiftly from the loss. "
Take care guys, looks like it's the end of eve for me. It was fun while it lasted ;]
PS: BE VERY CAREFUL OUT THERE!! Try to warn as many ppl as possible about this so it doesnt happen to anyone else. Thanks! |
VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.04.22 19:19:00 -
[10]
Your stuff. Give. |
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Tony Unrau
Caldari Kraken's Teeth Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.22 19:21:00 -
[11]
I dont think you caught the first sentence of that responce |
Vagra
Minmatar Gods Unwanted Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.22 19:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tony Unrau Responce:
"We are sorry to hear about your ship loss. Unfortunately we are unable to reimburse the ship as our server-side logs do not indicate that a bug/error within the game or a server related problem was the reason for your loss. This does not mean that we doubt your description of events in any way but I'm afraid it keeps our hands tied in regards to reimbursement.
Our reimbursement policies are very strict and we can only reimburse if we are able to verify that a bug or server error caused the loss. We hope that you understand our position and that you will recover swiftly from the loss. "
Take care guys, looks like it's the end of eve for me. It was fun while it lasted ;]
PS: BE VERY CAREFUL OUT THERE!! Try to warn as many ppl as possible about this so it doesnt happen to anyone else. Thanks!
you should take this as a learning experience. Even as a care bear you should learn the rules of engagement. You failed to learn which caused you to loose your ship. At the same time you can simply make the cash as a mission runner back in no time. No need to leave the game, unless you are the kind of person who runs away because somebody stole your popcorn |
Tony Unrau
Caldari Kraken's Teeth Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.22 19:27:00 -
[13]
Im very confident I could make the money back, In 6 months though that is and since I worked really hard for that 6 months to make that money in the first place I dont really feel like wasting another 6 months of my life getting back to where I was. I enjoy PVP, just not in HIGHSEC Besides im sure my wife would enjoy spending more time with me anyways, or any time at all that is. |
Zirconium Blade
Ass Pounding Space Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.04.22 19:35:00 -
[14]
I want to store my corpse collection in your empty, unused pod |
Tony Unrau
Caldari Kraken's Teeth Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.22 20:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zirconium Blade I want to store my corpse collection in your empty, unused pod
what does that even mean lol
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Arous Drephius
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.22 20:53:00 -
[16]
Your GM quote. Remove it NAO!
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.04.22 20:57:00 -
[17]
Wtf, stop playing EvE because you lost a ship?
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.04.22 20:58:00 -
[18]
you know, bounties alone, that's only about 30 Blockades. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.22 21:15:00 -
[19]
You need 6 months to make 900 mil? I can make that in 6 days of mission running... Oh wait, you also run L4s in a Nighthawk and care about loot... Really, your primary mistake was caring about your loot. If you use a better ship, looting will actually reduce your isk/hour, so no need to bother with it. And get out of the hubs, I have never ever seen a loot thief (not that I would care, but still...)
And the golden rule: NEVER shoot back in highsec unless you do not mind losing your ship. The aggro mechanics can be quite complicated and confusing, with many ways to exploit them, so it is usually better not to risk anything. Tbh I was expecting that YOU were concoreded as the pointe of your original post Which does indeed seem fishy if the Raven was NOT piloted by the logistics guy. What also might have happened: Logistics guy gets killed, Raven guy ejects, logistics guy enters Raven and bang Raven legally shoots you... |
FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.04.22 21:16:00 -
[20]
Do not ever engage in PvP except on your own terms. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose. Furthermore, since when was mission loot/salvage worth risking your mission ship for?
Anyway, you should be able to earn that 900 million back fairly quickly. A dedicated mission runner or 0.0 ratter can easily earn 100 million in a day. |
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Dotard
Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.23 00:20:00 -
[21]
??????
--------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Dotard
Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.23 00:21:00 -
[22]
WTF?! TWICE I reply to this thread and hit "POST REPLY" and get another BLANK reply field! WTF?!
Stupid forums.
--------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Tony Unrau
Caldari Kraken's Teeth Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.23 00:26:00 -
[23]
try editing your post
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.04.23 07:40:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Hanneshannes on 23/04/2008 07:44:13 Edited by: Hanneshannes on 23/04/2008 07:41:52
Originally by: Pwett you know, bounties alone, that's only about 30 Blockades.
A nighthawk fires them heavy missiles no? I guess a raven with cruise will do more damage and cost less. You can get one for about 150-180M.
Correct my if I'm wrong, I'm miles away from command ships, I can just tell you that my T2 tanked Raven with CN BCS and Launchers does them missions no probs and fast.
On a good day I can get 120-150M although I do sometimes salvage, so that's selling salvage and loot included. It's usually closer to 100, but the 20-50 comes from good implants or the occasional faction drop.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.23 11:12:00 -
[25]
I don't know how this could have happened, if all the infos you provided are true. But besides that, never shoot anyone when doing a mission. Just let him take the loot, you won't be probed too often anyways. There are pirates who set up traps with exact this tactics. They will steal your loot in a weak ship, let's say a badger. I know it's hard to resist shooting a thief in a badger when you are in your heavy dps ueber-ship, but just don't do it. After you shot that badger, the thief will come back in a pvp-ship that is fitted to counter your setup, and you are toast.
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Krollin
Minmatar Ki Shoda United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.04.23 12:26:00 -
[26]
Tony,
Ah 3rd attempt at replying to this thread, damn forum *mutter* *grumble* *curse*
I am surprised to hear that you lost a well fitted Nighthawk to a Cruiser and Raven! (Drop me a line ingame and I can tell you a great fit).
I would summise that this was a well (kinda) thought out plan to bring about the removal of your pod from your nice ship.
There are a number of tactics you can use to prevent this from happening again, and even make it work in your favour....
The outcome should have been Tony 2 - mission raiders O!
Drop me a line if you need advice
Kro
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Agif
UnderDog Industries Total Eclipse Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.23 13:20:00 -
[27]
EVE and there LOGS...
LMFAO CCP suxs balls deep and have no idea wtf they are doing.
/goes to play WOW... ---------------
EvEmissions - Level 5 Missions - Updated 22/01/08 |
RuhRoh
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Posted - 2008.04.23 14:04:00 -
[28]
If you leave can I have your stuff :)
Contract to meeeee :)
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.04.23 15:21:00 -
[29]
If I were the one that screwed up in high sec, couldn't handle losing a ship, and since I couldn't take it I was going to quit the game... If that were me, I don't think I would publicly point out my mistakes and inability to handle a PVP loss. For every 'sympathetic' reader , probably 5 people sitting out there going 'lol another noob wtfbbqpwnt.'
But that's just me.
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Arazel Chainfire
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.04.23 16:55:00 -
[30]
I thought that if they were in the same corp (unless it was NPC corp), once you fired on them you were fair game?
That being said... just leave the loot thieves alone - generally, they aren't worth your time.
-Arazel
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
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