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Tyto
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Posted - 2004.04.24 02:56:00 -
[1]
I know what you're thinking. "it's crazy, just a few more lab slots would solve all my problems."
Here's why the numbers are limited and should stay limited.
If there were a few more lab slots, or a huge number in each station, there would never be a need to leave the hub systems. Ever. You could research manufacture mine and do everything there.
Because the resource is scarce, it forces pilots and corps to migrate, thus enlarging the active economic area.
The migration is important to the economy and the long term future ot the game, so please, before you post a whiney "I can't find a lab slot" post, think about it for a second, then think about making a niche in an already crowded market that will make you some ISK.
It isn't rocket science you know.
"Dulce Bellum Inexpertis"
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Komi Hirayama
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Posted - 2004.04.24 05:51:00 -
[2]
Thats all very well unless like me you're a new corp trying to find 2 lab slots and an office in one location to start your corp. I've looked in every lab station in Genisis, Aridia, Domain, Placid and devoid today and whenever i do find a lab slot there are no offices.
I didnt have any luck until i got to solitude and found some there but then i got podded at a gate on my way back to get my corp mates. Now they dont want to risk the region. What are us new corps ment to do?
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Zelekhut
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Posted - 2004.04.24 07:31:00 -
[3]
im also new to the game, it took me hours to find lab slots.. finaly i got lucky and found a slot in Algogille (a .9 system!) and Heorah (.6 i think). I'm still looking for 2 more.. it takes a while but you can find something if u keep at it.
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Kalathmir
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Posted - 2004.04.25 05:13:00 -
[4]
You must realize that although it is definitely good for there to be limited lab slots (for the reasons you explained), the number that are able to be rented at one time by one person should be strictly limited. I think it is becoming evident that fewer and fewer people are owning more and more labs which can cause major problems with *cough* monopolies *cough* in different regions. -----------------------------------------------
Every living thing on earth dies alone. |
Tanner Mirabel
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Posted - 2004.04.25 10:47:00 -
[5]
I do agree with you Tyto but as Kalathmir said there does need to be more to stop the few taking the many. I think the number of labs you can rent should be linked to the number of labs you can use. I do believe there is a large amount of slots out there that are rented and not used because people just want to make sure they have them. There are a lot of new people coming into the game and its not very realistic to expect them to head out into 0.0 space to find a lab slot just so the long standing big corps can monopolise all the slots in empire space.
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Eondar
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Posted - 2004.05.02 20:49:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Eondar on 02/05/2004 20:59:13 I totally disagree with this Tyto, Here is why.
Quote: If there were a few more lab slots, or a huge number in each station, there would never be a need to leave the hub systems. Ever. You could research manufacture mine and do everything there.
1. not so, there are many reasons to leave the hub systems. Mostly mining, fighting, missions and trading. Research itself is for most people a 'background task' since you don't just sit and wait for it to happen. You start to research a BP and then go off and do one of the other things.
2. The eve universe is large and empire space (which has the most stations with lab slots) is fairly evenly populated. Just look on the map. Whatever region you move to you will find the same problem, no available lab slots.
Quote: Because the resource is scarce, it forces pilots and corps to migrate, thus enlarging the active economic area.
Same as point 1. Most corps won't base their home system on the availability of lab slots since they most travelling is done for other reasons. Your argument is based on the idea that there isn't enough migration in eve. Check out the 'players in space' on the map and you will see that migration is not a problem in eve.
Finding available lab slots is a problem however.
Also consider this. Something is odd in a universe where people do more BP research than manufacturing. (and where NPC's sell but not buy). Worse, a respectable researcher with millions of skill points in science cannot find lab slots because most are taken by beginning researchers.
Now, lets look at some possible solutions:
1. Basic and advanced lab slots. Currently every lab slot can do research from basic BP's to the highly advanced ones. Compare this with medical facilities on earth. Not every small town has a full lab! This is way too expensive. Only major instituations have enough money to equip large laboratories. Therefore it makes more sense to have cheap basic lab slots for basic research, and more expensive advanced lab slots for advanced (+basic) research. This will prevent beginning researchers (of which there are many) to take over all lab slots.
2. Increase lab slot price. Laboratories are cheaper than manufactoring slots. They are so cheap that just to keep them you research some minor BP. As a result everything hangs on to their lab slots. So raise the price. Make the use of lab part of the eve economy, not a freebie like they are now. Or combine it with pt 1.
3. Race dependent slots Currently research is independent of race. But would a Gallente station rent out all slots to other races and leaving nothing for their own? Allocate research slots based on race. Empire stations should keep half of their slots for their own race. This is more realistic. Sure it reduces migration but what goverment would encourage their people to move to other systems?
4. Build-your-own labs Allow a corporation to build their own labs. Happens all the time on earth.
Any more idea's? Please post them. CCP are you listening? Is this issue under discussion or new for you guys?
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disorderlynightcreature
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Posted - 2004.05.02 22:25:00 -
[7]
ok i have searched over 100 systems and not seen a single free slot but i will get one no matter what it takes
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Armin Chamberlain
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Posted - 2004.05.02 23:19:00 -
[8]
Yes, I agree that they shouldn't increse the number. But increase the costs! Make them expensive as hell! Like 50k per day or more depending on location. Its a desaster that everbody keeps like 10 slots for basically no cost. Yeah new players couldn't afford it, but show me 10 new players that have one now. |
Makhar
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Posted - 2004.05.03 07:38:00 -
[9]
If there were more lab slots available then it would have a knock-on effect on the economy. The cost of BPs would fall, the cost of ships would then fall as everybody got really high ME levels on all their BPs. It's already hard enough to make money in the manufacturing business without making it worse.
Makhar - CEO, Independent Miner's Guild
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sableye
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Posted - 2004.05.03 08:08:00 -
[10]
a few more lab slots would solve my problems all I wanna do is try an aspect out of the game, i doubt i will ever see what a research lab looks like after you hire it though as I spent 2 days looking for one and check everyone at every time my agents sends me to a station with labs, I'll never give up but its been fruitless so far.
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tinkerbell
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Posted - 2004.05.03 10:22:00 -
[11]
IMO lab slots should be rented for the length of time it takes to complete the job in hand, then freed up. This is a much better solution than any artificial limits on the number of slots people can rent.
Yeah, I know I'm a carebear and all that, but carrying multi-hundred million ISK blueprints round space looking for free slots is just plain tedious.
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Marabeth
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Posted - 2004.05.03 11:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Makhar If there were more lab slots available then it would have a knock-on effect on the economy. The cost of BPs would fall, the cost of ships would then fall as everybody got really high ME levels on all their BPs. It's already hard enough to make money in the manufacturing business without making it worse.
You do realise that there is no point researching a BPO above 5 don't you?
Research doesn't make things very much cheaper at all above that level. The reason profits are poor is that people sell too cheaply, not because there are too many lab slots.
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Marabeth
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Posted - 2004.05.03 11:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tyto I know what you're thinking. "it's crazy, just a few more lab slots would solve all my problems."
Here's why the numbers are limited and should stay limited.
If there were a few more lab slots, or a huge number in each station, there would never be a need to leave the hub systems. Ever. You could research manufacture mine and do everything there.
Because the resource is scarce, it forces pilots and corps to migrate, thus enlarging the active economic area.
The migration is important to the economy and the long term future ot the game, so please, before you post a whiney "I can't find a lab slot" post, think about it for a second, then think about making a niche in an already crowded market that will make you some ISK.
It isn't rocket science you know.
Corps migrate because there is a benefit to doing so. Lab slots are hardly a reason to move a corp, people are willing to travel 20 odd jumps to visit their labs, or to make a research alt who just lives with their labs so they only need to travel there occasionally to pick up their BPC's.
The lack of lab slots just punishes new corps, small groups, single players, and role players who don't want to make silly research alts. Do you honestly think a new corp will move into 0.2 space, with all the risks inherent in that just to get a couple of lab slots? If you want to move people out of secure space there needs to be something worth mining in 0.1-0.4.
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GreyMana
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Posted - 2004.05.03 13:05:00 -
[14]
Edited by: GreyMana on 03/05/2004 13:07:42
Originally by: Eondar Now, lets look at some possible solutions: 1. Basic and advanced lab slots. 2. Increase lab slot price. 3. Race dependent slots 4. Build-your-own labs
Solution 1-3 won't change anything. Corps heard that labslots are rare and the rent every slot they can get, just to leave them empty. The difference between corpslots and private rented slots is that corps don't lose them when they don't research anything, so I'm really wondering how many rented slots are actually empty.
If CCP sets the timeout for all slots to three days (no matter if private or corp rented) then there should be enought slots for everybody (with 30-60 minutes of searching).
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Phaethon
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Posted - 2004.05.03 14:51:00 -
[15]
Upping the lab slot price to at least that of fab's will help a little. Adding a cost to copying and researching bp's as with tech II will also help a little.
A lot of the aspects of lab slot availability and pricing have been discussed before.
The consensus was that at least the Caldari corps would be the first to let price follow demand, as well as build more slots if demand was still there.
A very simple formula could be used. If for a given period more than 90% of all "slot time" have been rented. Up the price by 25%. If for a given period less than 50% of the "slot time" has been rented, lower the price by 10%.
"slot time" = 30 slots*24 hours*number of days in "given period" say a week. this should be done to counter any unrent-and-rent exploits that a point in time formula would be open to.
The above % numbers are just grabbed out of the air. A more market like way of regulating prices could probably easily be made, but the above would work.
WTB. Infifitrator I drones |
Larno
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Posted - 2004.05.03 18:31:00 -
[16]
Okay everyone.... the reason that Lab Slots are so rare, is not because everyone fills them up with shuttle BPOs, it's not because everyone rents them out for their corp, the ORIGINAL reason, is that reasearch takes !*!"&*%" ages. Take a look at factories. You can find factories in all but the busiest sectors.
If research didn't take so long, people wouldn't need labs slots *all* the time. Yes, people rent them out for their corp which uses tons up, YES people fill their slots with useless BPOs, but they are only because research takes so long, and lab slots are so scarce. This is in effect a steamroller effect.
If research didn't take so long, and there was actually a limit to research, then you could just rent lab slots for the duration you need them, much like factories.
Two solutions:
1. Decrease research time and cap research levels. 2. Cap research levels, increase build time, and increase *both* total lab slots *and* total factory slots in each station.
:)
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Atrea
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Posted - 2004.05.03 22:06:00 -
[17]
It became apparent to me after speaking with someone that lab slots aren't limited in any way. 1000 isk gets you a slot...in fact...as many slots as you can muster. This player, who will remain nameless, had 21 labs he purchased even though his skill only allows him to use 3 total. So there are 18 lab slots that cannot be used by someone else. He also mentioned he's not the only one doing this.
I'm not one to go into a tirade about this but it would seem to me the answer is quite obvious: Simply change the rental system to allow for only as many slots as one can use. Would it also make sense to increase the payment per slot as well...this would keep folks from researching "junk BPs" like shuttles and whatnot. It would be interesting to see just how many labs suddenly appeared available.
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voogru
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Posted - 2004.05.04 01:37:00 -
[18]
All of these solutions are good and all...
But, I think I have a better one.
Remove the limit on lab slots all together, base the price on how many slots are taken up in that station, the more slots being used, the more they cost to rent.
Also, small interface change, make it so rented labs that you or your corp dont own dont show, whats the point of showing them if they are rented. ------- Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes Guardian Enforcer, wrecking for 827.3 damage. |
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