Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
jandelis
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 08:55:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Kage Toshimado Edited by: Kage Toshimado on 30/04/2008 21:11:29
Originally by: jandelis
erm? this is my main.....
and sure you wardec who you want....like i care who you wardec,what i said was aimed at those who wardec starting corp ,who dont stand a chance.... if u feel aimed at .....must be some reason to it....
No, you quoted me directly so you were talking about me so don't try to get out of it. You're forming an opinion about me and you don't even know me. I can form an opinion about you based on the face of your character. For example... the 70's called and they want their mustache back.
Does that mean you have a big ugly mustache in real life? No. Just because carebears make me sick doesn't mean you can form an opinion on me.
ok i quoted you directly.....happy now...?
gee....whatever
|
Dariah Stardweller
Kuruwasu Industries
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 09:00:00 -
[182]
Another whine thread.... "Boohoo, ppl won't stand still when I want to shoot them."
Geez, get over yourselves already....
|
DroneCommander
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 09:39:00 -
[183]
1. People are not a corporation. 2. People can leave a corporation and join another any time they chose. 3. Cry more. -------------
Now I'm sad... |
Dariah Stardweller
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 11:37:00 -
[184]
Originally by: DogSlime
Originally by: Mudrat Edited by: Mudrat on 29/04/2008 22:49:34
People could wait a week and hop, then wait a week and hop back, but that makes it a very unattractive option for them (see earlier postings as to why).
Let's see. Say I'm a mining noob (I am) and have zero to little combat skills. What would I do when my corp gets wardeced by some corp that vastly outguns mine (basicly any 10 member corp would do).
Well, at the present, I would hop to an alt corp, cause I don't intend to be a easy target for some bunch of griefers. Then the griefers will whine and mope bout not having any wartargets but I can still play the game the way I like.
Right, now let's say we implement the 7 day thingie. What would I do? Undock in my mining barge and go fight the deccers? Errrr... NO!!!! I would sit it out. Result: whining griefers who STILL have no war targets and me not able to play the game.
Congratulations! You just made EVE suck a little bit more for everyone!!!
|
Havohej
Minmatar The Defias Brotherhood
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 12:29:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller ...and me not able to play the game.
Congratulations! You just made EVE suck a little bit more for everyone!!!
Welcome to the risks associated with being in a player corporation instead of the NPC corporation. If you're wardec'd, and you don't have the combat power to fight off your enemy, or the ISK power to hire someone else to fight them off for you, then you don't get to mine or rat or mission or however else you're used to making ISK in highsec space. This is a perfect opportunity for you to learn to keep your mouth shut, not attract attention, and figure out how to make ISK by trading on the market since that's just about all you can do to make a profit if you're camped into a station.
This way, the aggressing corporation might not get any kills (no profit), but you don't get anything out of it either, so it's fair.
See here for a detailed demonstration of the fact that CCP did not intend for corphopping to be abused in the manner you describe. Feel free to click through to the knowledgebase and read it for yourself.
To say "You've just made EVE suck a little bit more for everyone" suggests that you think EVE sucks. Otherwise, why use the words "a little bit more"? If you're playing a game that you think sucks, then you should quit. Why pay money to play something that you don't like? ...just an observation.
Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 12:43:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: DogSlime
Originally by: Mudrat Edited by: Mudrat on 29/04/2008 22:49:34
People could wait a week and hop, then wait a week and hop back, but that makes it a very unattractive option for them (see earlier postings as to why).
Let's see. Say I'm a mining noob (I am) and have zero to little combat skills. What would I do when my corp gets wardeced by some corp that vastly outguns mine (basicly any 10 member corp would do).
Well, at the present, I would hop to an alt corp, cause I don't intend to be a easy target for some bunch of griefers. Then the griefers will whine and mope bout not having any wartargets but I can still play the game the way I like.
Right, now let's say we implement the 7 day thingie. What would I do? Undock in my mining barge and go fight the deccers? Errrr... NO!!!! I would sit it out. Result: whining griefers who STILL have no war targets and me not able to play the game.
Congratulations! You just made EVE suck a little bit more for everyone!!!
You join a corp that can protect you until such time as you're ready and able to do it for yourselves.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
ShardowRhino
Caldari Legion 0f The Damned
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 12:46:00 -
[187]
Wow, long thread, just read the 1st page only. adding in .02isk just to add to the thread so maybe the devs might do something about this.
Its one thing for a corp to disolve/disband because they couldn't take the pressure. Its another thing to have people play musical chairs to avoid a game mechanic.
IF CCP allows this to stand as is then we might as well change empire space into a sanctuary where no one can fire at anything other then roids and rats. Get rid of concord as that will be eating up memory for something that was removed from the game called "risk".
If you form a corp you take upon yourself as well as all members a risk that you may get wardeced. The reward for taking that risk is up to the players of the corp to hammer out on their own. If the reward does not outweigh the risk then you should NOT take it upon yourself to make a corp.
Seriously if your corp is going to hop around to several alt corps then you guys seriously need to get your head examined. I wouldn't be able to stay in such a spineless group and i would expect any guy with an ounce of pride to be disgusted by such a request. "We refuse to fight so lets join alt corps and when the dec is over i can remain your fearful leader!"
This is equal to a corp "loggoffski" in an attempt to get out of a fight. Since last I heard it was a bannable offense to attempt to avoid a fight by logging off then this corp hopping should also be the same.
Want to fix the problem? Have all members that were in the corp at the time the wardec was declared become flashy red to the agressing corp for the entire duration of the wardec, REGARDLESS of what corp that player switches to.
Another thing you can do is put a ban on players joining a new corp for a week until the initial wardec is finished. IF the player left the corp because they couldnt take it or they lost respect for their old corp's idea of hopping around , then this won't mess up the game for legit players. It will mess up things for wardec dodgers
|
Dariah Stardweller
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 13:38:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Havohej
Welcome to the risks associated with being in a player corporation instead of the NPC corporation.
Welcome to the risks associated with wardeccing corps that are not into PvP at the time :) .
|
Havohej
Minmatar The Defias Brotherhood
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 13:42:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Havohej
Welcome to the risks associated with being in a player corporation instead of the NPC corporation.
Welcome to the risks associated with wardeccing corps that are not into PvP at the time :) .
Yeah, except that's not how it works. If you're "not into PvP at the time," then stay docked.
Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
|
Dariah Stardweller
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 13:50:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Malcanis
You join a corp that can protect you until such time as you're ready and able to do it for yourselves.
And then you get the whines about small corps not being viable anymore in EVE. Or if you join a major alliance to deal with the wardec, the "PvP'ers" will whine about that not being fair and asking for a nerf to joining alliances while wardecced....
Let's face it, the vast majority of ppl whining about corp hoppers are just after cheap kills, hilarious to see the same ppl talk about "honor" and such
It's very simple people, if someone keeps corphopping he obviously doesn't want to fight for one reason or another. You can a) cry about it like ppl here. b) find ppl who are more than willing to fight you, there should be enough around.
I suspect most ppl will go with a). I'll just be roflmao bout it :)
|
|
Dariah Stardweller
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 13:53:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Havohej
Yeah, except that's not how it works. If you're "not into PvP at the time," then stay docked.
That's EXACTLY how it works apparently :) .
|
Kage Toshimado
Kage Clan
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 14:12:00 -
[192]
Originally by: jandelis
ok i quoted you directly.....happy now...?
gee....whatever
Aw c'mon man I was just getting into the fun of this. I wasn't trying to be an ass.
/me shares cake with jandelis
|
Yiv
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 14:13:00 -
[193]
Originally by: ShardowRhino
Want to fix the problem? Have all members that were in the corp at the time the wardec was declared become flashy red to the agressing corp for the entire duration of the wardec, REGARDLESS of what corp that player switches to.
This is exactly what I want to see happen.
CCP is turning Eve into WoW by bowing down to "carebear" pressure. If you want to see what pressure from new players can do to an mmorpg, by alienating it's existing members, look no further than star wars galaxies (if it still exists).
|
Dariah Stardweller
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 14:25:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Yiv
This is exactly what I want to see happen.
CCP is turning Eve into WoW by bowing down to "carebear" pressure. If you want to see what pressure from new players can do to an mmorpg, by alienating it's existing members, look no further than star wars galaxies (if it still exists).
People who fight empire wars complaining about carebears.
|
Yiv
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 14:42:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Yiv
This is exactly what I want to see happen.
CCP is turning Eve into WoW by bowing down to "carebear" pressure. If you want to see what pressure from new players can do to an mmorpg, by alienating it's existing members, look no further than star wars galaxies (if it still exists).
People who fight empire wars complaining about carebears.
Explain?
|
Havohej
Minmatar The Defias Brotherhood
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 17:41:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Yiv
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller People who fight empire wars complaining about carebears.
Explain?
He's suggesting that people like Privateer Alliance, who fight empire wars, are carebears.
Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
|
Arcani Victus
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 20:57:00 -
[197]
I think this would be a reasonable solution:
If you leave a corporation while there is an active war, you would be a wartarget to the opposing corporation for 72 hours (or just flashing red), assuming the war doesn't end before then.
|
Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 21:03:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Arcani Victus I think this would be a reasonable solution:
If you leave a corporation while there is an active war, you would be a wartarget to the opposing corporation for 72 hours (or just flashing red), assuming the war doesn't end before then.
don't undock for 3 days problem solved
|
Arcani Victus
|
Posted - 2008.05.01 21:05:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Originally by: Arcani Victus I think this would be a reasonable solution:
If you leave a corporation while there is an active war, you would be a wartarget to the opposing corporation for 72 hours (or just flashing red), assuming the war doesn't end before then.
don't undock for 3 days problem solved
Fact of the matter is that you're still affected by the war and you can't avoid it that easily. Then if you hide in a station, it's the same as being in the corp and hiding in the station. You're still hiding.
|
ShardowRhino
Caldari Legion 0f The Damned
|
Posted - 2008.05.02 00:19:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Arcani Victus I think this would be a reasonable solution:
If you leave a corporation while there is an active war, you would be a wartarget to the opposing corporation for 72 hours (or just flashing red), assuming the war doesn't end before then.
Why are you ripping off my idea and then bowing to carebear pressure before said pressure is even applied. Stop stealing and then nerfing my ideas.
Its funny to see people say "oh cry some more because we don't want to fight". Its funny because these tools want to take on the benifits of being in a corp without the risk. Its equal to someone saying they want to rat in 0.0 but not have the risk involved. You want the benifits but dont want to take on the challenges that may happen.
Its equal to logging off any time a fight breaks out. Since these guys have no pride in their corp then there is no consequence for leaving it when a wardec occurs,much like someone logging off when a fight breaks out. Yet logging out to dodge a fight is a bannable offense? These guys are cheating the system. It destroys the idea that eve is supposed to be a harsh,uncaring sandbox. If people can become immune to one game mechanic and reap the benifits of another game mechanic, that sounds like cheating.
If this is how things are going to go in eve then they need to make a change. In addition to the change some dude tried to rip off and then nerf, players leaving a corp to dodge a wardec will still be considered wartargets for the duration of the first week of the war. Either block them from joining new corps until that week is up OR allow them to do so but keep them as a wartarget while the new corp's members are neutrals.
In addition to that, if they allow them to join a new corp imediately ,the player remains a WT. ALso the attacking corp is allowed a choice to wardec the new corp for free. Thus making the corp hopper a virus but at the choice of the wardecing corp.
Another fix to this problem is altering npc corps. NPC corps should be a shelter for the legit nubcakes fresh out of the tutorial oven, not those that are 3 years old and **** themselves if they were ever to see a BC sized rat heading their way. NPC corps,much like rookie chat should only last so long and then your on your own. After 2 or 3 months if you have not chosen to join a player corp then the npc corp cuts you loose and you become an independent contractor of sorts.
As an independent you have a choice to either stay on your own or join a corp. Heres the real change, npc corps stay untouchable as they are now but independent players can be wardeced by corps,alliances and other independents. Of course if a player is in a corp he cannot be targeted,all current wardec rules apply still so you dec the whole corp. Also if players leave the corp before the dec is finished they remain targets until the end of the dec just as i mentioned above.
This could change how corps are seen. Going from "oh what a cool name and shiney logo, im so proud of myself! yay!" that can be left and rejoined when the bad bad men go away, to something that means more then a logo where teamwork is encouraged because they have to rely on each other for defense less they face the other corp on their own.
This would also fix the problem with the macro miners. If we see someone we suspect of macroing, anyone can dec em. They are no longer untouchable to anyone but suicide gankers. This would dry up the isk that is being used in RMT which ccp SAYS is against the eula but have made no effort to ***** down on the true source. 3 months is a lot of time to be in game and not join a group of players in an mmo. eve when compared to other mmos seems to have the least player interaction due to spies and thieves and so on making people paranoid. This change would promote teamwork and create a stronger community where macro miners can no longer hide.
|
|
Mudrat
|
Posted - 2008.05.02 00:37:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Mudrat on 02/05/2008 00:37:53
Originally by: Yiv
Originally by: ShardowRhino
Want to fix the problem? Have all members that were in the corp at the time the wardec was declared become flashy red to the agressing corp for the entire duration of the wardec, REGARDLESS of what corp that player switches to.
This is exactly what I want to see happen.
CCP is turning Eve into WoW by bowing down to "carebear" pressure. If you want to see what pressure from new players can do to an mmorpg, by alienating it's existing members, look no further than star wars galaxies (if it still exists).
this is not a very good counterargument
firstly, ccp is in it to make money. dont kid yourselves - when ccp stops making money, we stop having Eve
secondly - the price of 30 day gtc's has been rapidly dropping. i fully expect them to hit sub 100m prices by the end of summer. if more people are able to pay for their subs with in game isk, that makes this game a LOT more like your typical korean ftp game
with that in mind (unless they do actually move to an f2p model which as it stands wouldnt work here unless they put t2 bpc's in an item mall type shop for real life money) they may find themselves needing to make eve more accessible, or wallow in a genre that has increasing amounts of competition yearly.
|
Rono Vizu
Amarr Burma Star
|
Posted - 2008.05.02 00:57:00 -
[202]
One of the main purposes of corporations and alliances is to allow formal wars to be fought over resources, trade routes, strategic systems or simple pride.
Thank you for quoting the intended reasons for for a war declaration. But I ask couldn't the same objectives be done differently? the issue is that anyone can jump a corp when wardec'd. Tis should occur because most people know that a corporation is a place of business and doesn't directly represent the people that work for it. What if there is a spy in a corp that is dec'd? can he leave too? I think Wars should be restriceted by regions the waring corp has payed to KOS in. They should also release the amount of corps you can wardec from 3 to unlimited. You should still be able to declare war on a corp across all of space, but it should be very expensive as you are payiing off concord in all regions.
I am sorry I have been blown up by concord for some stupid stuff to think that 2 million isk is enough isk for all of concord to pay no attention to player kills. I think this will deepen the RP elemnts of the game, and give ore depth to the pride resources and trade routes, as it Identifies them and makes them the reason to fight over. I dont think that wars should go away, but this system is broken. It is broken, because most players as it seems will abuse the current mechanics until wars get nerfed. I realise that this is a very boring way to conduct war, but if wardec corps are starting to corp hop then I guess the urrent system is kinda boring too. Unless these wardec corps like to chase these industrialist corps?
|
Jarod Leercap
|
Posted - 2008.05.02 02:26:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Havohej I submit the following link: EVE Online Support|Corporation wars from the Knowledgebase. I quote:
Originally by: CCP Knowledgebase One of the main purposes of corporations and alliances is to allow formal wars to be fought over resources, trade routes, strategic systems or simple pride.
If you actually read that quote, you might understand that the quote itself implies that there are other reasons corporations are in the game--among them other "main" reasons. It makes zero sense to ignore other "main" reasons just to suit war dec'ers.
I'm not saying that the system isn't broken. However, even caring about empire war decs is a tacit admission that war decs should be, to some extent, optional. Anyone who thinks otherwise is already in 0.0 instead of mucking with empire...and perhaps calling for CCP to do away with both low and high sec.
Once that admission is on the table, the question very quickly becomes why war decs aren't to some degree optional for corps--or at least for some form of persistent group with some, perhaps minor, shared resources. There is no logical basis for arguing that a 2 year old character in an NPC corp should have the optional nature of war decs forcibly removed but that this should not be the case for a trio of two-week old characters.
Quite frankly, the system should change. However, the only reason I've seen to change corp hopping while leaving everything else stays the same is because some war dec'ers saying, "I want." Sorry, but an embellished "I want" doesn't sound any better out of a PVP'ers mouth than it does a care bear's. |
Havohej
Minmatar The Defias Brotherhood
|
Posted - 2008.05.02 05:23:00 -
[204]
Hai Mudrat o/ I still don't see you posting on your main.
Hai Rona o/ They used to have it so that you could wardec however many corporations/alliances you needed to, but due to Privateer alliance causing tears on the forum in unheard of proportions, CCP nerfed the wardec system. What PRVTR had done was to wardec EVERYTHING. If they saw it, and it didn't have a red star on it, they wardec'd it. PvP corps, industry corps, 1-man hauler alt corps with research POSes, you name it, it got wardec'd, until finally everything in empire was a War Target for them.
So CCP made it so that each corp can only have so many wardecs active, and that as you get more and more wardecs, they begin to cost more and more per week to get CONCORD to look the other way.
So CCP definitely won't unlimit the number of wardecs a corp can do - they just made that change like a patch or two before Trinity expansion.
Now, to some degree, I agree that the way that PRVTR alliance used the wardec system previously was an abuse. It was not intended for CONCORD to allow one entity to kill anybody, indiscriminately, by the wardec system.
At the same time, it was not intended for people who choose to start and join player corporations to be able to benefit from player corps while not assuming the risks associated with them - as I and others in these seven pages have already explained a dozen times. Corphopping is as much an abuse of the game mechanics as what PRVTR did to have wardecs get nerfed to begin with.
So they can nerf wardec corps/alliances, but they can't nerf people abusing the same system from the other side? That doesn't sit well, with a lot of people. More than a few of the people who have posted in support of this thread are carebear-types themselves who aren't afraid to play the game, so the argument of "u just want to be able to grief people" flops - those carebears don't want to grief anyone, and personally neither do I. I want to help people learn not to talk smack in a game like this unless you can protect yourself. I want to help people learn not to make a target of themselves by exposing their soft, fleshy underbelly to the air.
"I want" to help you.
So, CCP, fix the wardec system, please. |
Kami Nodachi
Gallente Lobstosity
|
Posted - 2008.05.02 06:40:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Kami Nodachi on 02/05/2008 06:42:32 I might support this except for a few things.
1. IRL there is accountability for higher ups in corporations, those who make decisions or have enough power to influence them. People with corp roles and shareholders in corps should be held more accountable, even if they have left said corp. If **** hits the fan, it is probably their fault for doing something, or not preventing something.
Those on the bottom rung should be least affected, if affected at all.
I would like to see this represented in game.
2. I would like to see the problem of experienced players picking on new players addressed before any action is taken on the escapability of wardecs. The only response I EVER see to the victimisation of those with little play time and experience is 'whatever you are doing, you don't deserve to be doing it because you are n00b, if you get blasted, suck it up, this is EVE'
EVE is only 10 years old. There is a max. 10 years since anyone was new to the game. If anyone can't remember how hard it was to figure everything out at the beginning, then they are smoking too much weed.
If your only options in a wardec are to cough up cash with no guarantee (to either the wardeccing corp or mercs), live with the hounds chasing after you, to join a NPC or other player corp and ditch your friends, or to start a new corp for a mill and keep playing with the guys you know, rinse and repeat, of COURSE people are just gonna jump ship. Its the best option available! |
Nexa Neci5
THE REALLY AWESOME PLAYERS.
|
Posted - 2008.05.02 07:34:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Kami Nodachi Edited by: Kami Nodachi on 02/05/2008 06:42:32 I might support this except for a few things.
1. IRL there is accountability for higher ups in corporations, those who make decisions or have enough power to influence them. People with corp roles and shareholders in corps should be held more accountable, even if they have left said corp. If **** hits the fan, it is probably their fault for doing something, or not preventing something.
Those on the bottom rung should be least affected, if affected at all.
I would like to see this represented in game.
2. I would like to see the problem of experienced players picking on new players addressed before any action is taken on the escapability of wardecs. The only response I EVER see to the victimisation of those with little play time and experience is 'whatever you are doing, you don't deserve to be doing it because you are n00b, if you get blasted, suck it up, this is EVE'
EVE is only 10 years old. There is a max. 10 years since anyone was new to the game. If anyone can't remember how hard it was to figure everything out at the beginning, then they are smoking too much weed.
If your only options in a wardec are to cough up cash with no guarantee (to either the wardeccing corp or mercs), live with the hounds chasing after you, to join a NPC or other player corp and ditch your friends, or to start a new corp for a mill and keep playing with the guys you know, rinse and repeat, of COURSE people are just gonna jump ship. Its the best option available!
Another clueless carebear. Eve is a game with consequences. LIVE WITH IT IDIOT. |
Kami Nodachi
Gallente Lobstosity
|
Posted - 2008.05.02 07:45:00 -
[207]
And I want consequences to be experienced by the people that incurred them. Whats the matter? Would you be out of business if you couldn't pick on n00bs? I feel for you. |
Mudrat
|
Posted - 2008.05.02 07:54:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Havohej Hai Mudrat o/ I still don't see you posting on your main.
nope. why should i make it easy on you? after all, eve is a harsh game |
omglollolol
|
Posted - 2008.05.02 09:08:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Jecob
Originally by: Havohej The game has actual in-game consequences for when something happens
What's the consequence of war deccing someone? It seems for the greifer corp there is none.
The consequences of initiating a wardec?
A: It costs ISK. B: As you get more active wardecs, it begins costing more and more ISK. C: 24 hours' notice, so you entirely give away any element of surprise. D: Your own corp/alliance must take much greater precautions in their movements, such as transport of freighters even through highsec, running missions, mining (ice or otherwise) - granted, less so if you've wardec'd an Industry corporation, but more so if they hire mercs or get the help of a decent anti-pie corp/alliance and you get a wardec in return.
That's just 4, right off the top of my head.
@Mudrat: stfu or quit, tbh.
haha, you're epic fail. word up Mudrat. |
Havohej
Minmatar The Defias Brotherhood
|
Posted - 2008.05.02 09:39:00 -
[210]
omglollollol...that's not an account created solely for the purpose of trolling, its opinions are very weighty indeed.
Same goes for Mudrat, tbh.
We'll take your contributions into account and I assure you that the greater EVE community will be duly influenced by your words of wisdom.
Someday.
In the meantime, quit or stfu - at this point you're contributing nothing useful to the topic at all. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |